The 8448 didn't bring nothing really new to the table, unlike every previous supercar generation before it. But yes, the modular build was nice. And it's something lego should have expanded upon.

Edited August 28, 201311 yr by nicjasno

I'd love to see a lego "hot hatch" with transverse engine, macpherson front suspension, multilink rear suspension, realistic gearbox and front wheel drive. If done properly, the parts count could be relatively low, thanks to panels. And the model could be awesome.

Mini cooper???

More a generic one, inspired my many real ones. Nothing specific, unless a car manufacturer wants to get onboard with a license, like they did with the unimog.

I felt the 8448 was much more realistic as a modern car in both looks and functions compared to the 8880... The one thing that I really hated about the 8880 was the fact that the V8 engine was attached to the drive train by a chain... That's not very realistic..

Lego needs to make larger scale wheels and tires.. Maybe 1:7 or even 1:6...

Indeed. But it was convenient, because the 4 wheel steering system was probably interfering with some sensible gear placement.

It took me a while to appreciate/adopt the studless designs, but now, I find the SSS/8448 much nicer looking than the 8880. Then of course there is the 8644. IMHO, the 'other' supercar (8070) was meant to demo new functionality ... where what looks like a transmission, is in fact used to lower/raise hood/doors/spoiler. Neat concepts, but way non-realistic.

And the fact that you can make it either a FWD or RWD in a snap.

Well you could mount the engine in the front or rear, but it was always rear wheel drive... Nathanael's Concept car gave the option to make either front or rear wheel drive...

Indeed. But it was convenient, because the 4 wheel steering system was probably interfering with some sensible gear placement.

You could be right.. It has been a Long time since I built it.. I just remember the chain and was like WTF..???

While I think the 8448 took a small step backwards as far as overall functions went, I think it took a nice step forward as far as resembling an actual car...

Edited August 28, 201311 yr by Paul Boratko

Well you could mount the engine in the front or rear, but it was always rear wheel drive... Nathanael's Concept car gave the option to make either front or rear wheel drive...

Correct, the front axle had those unique spindles and could not accomodate an FWD ... it is only the engine that moves back/forth. Need to go back to my 8448 and revisit ... it's been a while. Lat thing I did was add a motor (+9V battery) to it, and then measure rear tires RPM under different gear sets .... Yes, there is a difference in speeds, though not noticeable if you spin by hand.

More a generic one, inspired my many real ones. Nothing specific, unless a car manufacturer wants to get onboard with a license, like they did with the unimog.

For the front wheel drive/transverse engine thing:

That is something impossible with current parts if you want to make it authentic and not huge. The current gearboxes just too big to put next to the engine in transverse direction.

Next to the gear clutches, a proper wheel hub is missing for me. It's annoying that you have to use non-authentic linkages to let the steering axle be inside the wheel. That's why I said that due to the limitations of Lego, realistic functionality often contradicts with realistic setup.

Edited August 29, 201311 yr by Lipko

For a FWD car we need different wheel hubs with 8880 CV joints, 8448 style deep rims and wheels with the overall diameter of the unimog tires. And of course different sized clutch gears.

On the other hand, if I were to try and explain how a transmission works ... I can't use the 8448/8644.

i agree but just show him the transmission of the 8880 and he will understand the basic prinziple - of course, the 8880 isn't really synchronized but just uses the dog-catch mechanism of real gearboxes...but IMHO this doesn't matter.. real synchronization is IMHO not really possible with lego-parts... but the 8880 shows quite good the relations between gearstick, gears, dog-catches and different gear ratios... so for me it perfectly suited to explain a kid the ground principle of a gearbox..

but i agree that different sized clutch gears would make the situation better - but these combined with a 8880-like gearstick would satisfied all my wishes concerning gearbox-realism made by lego...

I think it's just a matter of preference. You are interested in suspension, that's why you say so. Most supercars (be it a MOC or official set) has suspension at least, even if it's not fully realistic. A very few car model has breaks, friction clutch or power steering for example. There is a not fullly realistic but existing suspension while some of the most basic and characteristic functions are totally missing from most of the models...

i agree a lot... suspension: IMHO it satisfies already a lot of realism in that sense, that one can explain a kid what is the ground principle of a suspension in a car... well, real suspensions consist of two main parts, the spring and the shock absorber, both with different purposes - lego doesn't do this but just uses one sping-element... well not really fully realistic but again: completely sufficient to explain my son how it works - not suffcient to explain a future car mechanic in his schooling how it works - but this should not be the intention of lego - al least not IMHO

steering: agreed, steering of 8110 is crap but e.g. steering in 8880 is very well done and shows again all kids the ground principle...

I think the best supercars are made by Crowkillers and Tyler Reid (in alphabetical order). Yet, they are just like any other supercars or just cars in terms of functionality.

you forgot Nat Kuipers... it's concept car is for me one of the best build supercar and cause of its outstanding modularity it demonstrates kids how nowadays cars are manufactured... just see the marriage of chassis, gearbox and motor (this is realism pure), but this only BTW... ;-) - of course the supercars of crownkiller and some others are also great and outstanding

Let me limit this to "a" supercar. Any supercar.

The purpose of each supercar in the past was to surpass its predecessor in the functions it had. The supercars were basically the flagship models of the technic line.

This kinda changed with the 8448, which for the first time made a few staps back from the brilliant 8880 (still the best supercar imho).

i agree to 100% with each letter you wrote ;-)

Also, we need car bodies that are stiffer, like the 8880. If you want the suspension to do its work, the car body must not twist like chewing gum. And as people before mentioned, we need different sizes of clutch gears, to make a realistic gearbox. And i'd also love to see a variation of the 8880 CV joint, so we could make proper front wheel or all wheel drive cars.

I'd love to see a lego "hot hatch" with transverse engine, macpherson front suspension, multilink rear suspension, realistic gearbox and front wheel drive. If done properly, the parts count could be relatively low, thanks to panels. And the model could be awesome.

as already written above IMHO all this is not really necessary to reach that grade of realism necessary to educate kids in the ground principles of a car - all this we have already (apart from different sized clutch gears, i admit) - the 8880 is still the best demonstration object - and also a sufficiant demonstration object - to show all this stuff our kids... combined with a modular design like of 8448 or Kuipers concept car and it will be a quite perfect supercar for the main target group of lego...

But i agree with you that your proposals sound veryx intersting and could be designed by TLG with not much effort - but nevertheless all this need a lot of special parts which need to be designed, wich need new molds etc. etc... probably the business case fails for this... but companies often design some CNO (cost no object) products just to show what can be possible and to use them for advertising ... but this would not be for the mass merket because it would not add value for the mass - but I'm sure here are enough AFOLs which would pay the high prices for sets like you want... I would

Indeed. But it was convenient, because the 4 wheel steering system was probably interfering with some sensible gear placement.

no, it is simply bad design - nothing easier than removing the boring chain from the 8880: just bring the rear steering to the other side (from right to left - front looking to the car) and you have enough place to replace the chain with gears - you can then also choose different ratios depending how fast the pistons should fly...

I have done this already and it performs very well - details see here:

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=80878&hl=8880

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=79125

The thing is, that the 8880 is an old model and hard to come by. SO we need something new. And when doing a new model, why not create parts, that everybody needs/wants anyway. If done properly, those parts (wheel hubs, wheels with larger diameter rims, different sized clutch gears, better cv joints...) can be reused in a plethora of models for the next decade.

Everybody and their dog is longing for better, more realistic looking low profile wheels with bigger rims anyway.

The thing is, that the 8880 is an old model and hard to come by. SO we need something new. And when doing a new model, why not create parts, that everybody needs/wants anyway. If done properly, those parts (wheel hubs, wheels with larger diameter rims, different sized clutch gears, better cv joints...) can be reused in a plethora of models for the next decade.

Everybody and their dog is longing for better, more realistic looking low profile wheels with bigger rims anyway.

probably you are right - the old 8880 was also a big leap forward at that release-time 1994... with lots of completely new parts and it had success - so why not jumping again - e.g. with a 9990 supercar and bringing the supercar species to modern times... i would vote for it.

And the suspension parts need to be more versatile, allowing for many different suspension setups. I do have an idea how such a part needs to look like. Also new lower A arms, that would be able to function in bionicle models aswell, and many other applications.

why not create parts

Cost. Right now, they've got the stuff to make the kind of cars that work well. They've JUST overhauled the suspension parts. What you're looking for are a good load of very complicated to produce parts (4 to 6 molds per part), along with storage and so on.

that everybody needs/wants anyway.

That YOU want. Plus, I'm figuring, about 50 vocal AFOLs. Hell, let's make it 200 AFOLs. And on the other side: the people who couldn't care less. How many hundreds of millions of kids were there again?

can be reused in a plethora of models

How often does Lego release supercars again? Even including offroaders, I'm counting only six sets the last ten years.

I want these as much as you do, but the chance of us getting them is not, if you'll pardon the word, realistic.

Edited August 29, 201311 yr by mahjqa

All the work in revising the wheel hubs was for nothing. They are shit. Just a new rotor for the small turntable would have been enough and would have saved a lot of cost. And the CV joints do not have enough articulation to be usable for FWD vehicles. Even awd vehicles need 4 wheel steering to be able to negotiate turns with those CV joints.

All the while the brilliant 8880 cv joint design remained unused, except in helicopters and the 8880 of course. This is so frustrating to watch. So much potential, wasted.

And the 8448 rims.. while nice size, they have an ugly dated design and the stud holes are not 1 stud thick, preventing you to mount them on the new wheel hubs.

What are they thinking?

All the work in revising the wheel hubs was for nothing. They are shit. Just a new rotor for the small turntable would have been enough and would have saved a lot of cost. And the CV joints do not have enough articulation to be usable for FWD vehicles. Even awd vehicles need 4 wheel steering to be able to negotiate turns with those CV joints.

All the while the brilliant 8880 cv joint design remained unused, except in helicopters and the 8880 of course. This is so frustrating to watch. So much potential, wasted.

And the 8448 rims.. while nice size, they have an ugly dated design and the stud holes are not 1 stud thick, preventing you to mount them on the new wheel hubs.

What are they thinking?

You couldn't be more right.

Well I hope for a 2h 2014 supercar, there is so much potential with a few new parts...But not red, yellow or black. I think that an awesome looking model departing of the tired Ferrari may indeed be a good seller.

Btw what about the future? I mean electric cars will come to stay sooner or later. That makes somehow less complex models, not a working engine for show anymore, hell some don't even need a gearbox, so where is going TLG to focus when designing a supercar if they don't really care about suspenssions or steering...

I'd love to see a white mid engined supercar with new wheels and low profile tires in the style of a lotus elise or something similar.

The clutch/gearbox parts can be used to make complicated stuff as the clutch gears can have a split axle or the clutch can not mesh with the axle but mesh when its put into a gear, custom clutches using the clutch extenders etc etc

But yes different sized clutch gears mean you don't need to add more under the current ones, engineers only uses as many gears as needed.

.. lotus ..

I'd like to see the Bond Esprit

Nah... An evora perhaps.

Well I hope for a 2h 2014 supercar, there is so much potential with a few new parts...But not red, yellow or black. I think that an awesome looking model departing of the tired Ferrari may indeed be a good seller.

Btw what about the future? I mean electric cars will come to stay sooner or later. That makes somehow less complex models, not a working engine for show anymore, hell some don't even need a gearbox, so where is going TLG to focus when designing a supercar if they don't really care about suspenssions or steering...

Good point, they better get in a gearbox quick!

Seriously tho, whilst the torque curve is fairly flat on an electric motor, their efficiency is far from flat. So whilst you can get away with only one gear to take you from 0 to top speed, it uses much more electricity than if you have a gearbox. This is why many car manufacturers who are developing electric cars are currently developing multispeed transmissions for their electric cars. as for the engine, they are not going to die out over night, and there is alot of research going on in bio fuels. I'm fairly sure they will be around in supercars at least for many decades so I wouldn't worry about it

EDIT: Hey guys, anyone remember this recent post?

8880 is a great example. Imagine a new supercar, in white or dark metallic grey, without the cluttered patchwork of panels (and NO COLOUR VOMIT!)but clearly defined, smooth lines making up a more bear bones but detailed, very low down and sleek/fast looking bodywork (with side vents, wing mirrors, etc), new 6 speed gearbox with lots of different sized synchros and a gearlinkage that manages to change 6 gears as nice and smooth and easy as 8880, new low profile, glossy black wheels and tyres (that actually look like real world supercar wheels and tyres) same diameter as the unimog but wider and very deep hubs (like 8448) so that the steering pivot can be mounted right inside the wheel, disk brakes visable through the spokes of the wheels, highly detailed engine with a really long, curvy chain on the front to look like the long cam belts on real engines and so on and so on, new diffs (see below) plus all the usual like suspention/steering. Bringing this post back on topic, if they came out with such a supercar, a true and worthy modern day 8880 (ie a huge leap forward in functionality, new parts and styling) then I really would not care what the piece count is, 1000, 3000, don't care just take my money!

Would this not satisfy those looking for more authenticity and everybody else?!

Edited August 29, 201311 yr by allanp

The 8448 didn't bring nothing really new to the table

• The reverse gear, and a much more compact gearbox setup
  
• Doors that open and close via a damped piston
  
• Fluid suspension (8880's was way too stiff)
  
• Modular build
  
• Much more minimalistic design

• The reverse gear, and a much more compact gearbox setup
  
• Doors that open and close via a damped piston
  
• Fluid suspension (8880's was way too stiff)
  
• Modular build
  
• Much more minimalistic design

Nice but Nothing really new... Gearbox is simple a better Design, but remember the Way better gear switching mechanism of the 8880 cause of its unique gearstick... And what the hell is remarkable about a reverse gear???

Suspension of 8880 is too stiff right, but the 8448 is too weak.. But anyway: nothing New to the table

Modular Build is just another Design principle nothing more... Well, to be honest, a very good design principle... ;-)

Summary: i like the 8448 as a set and as a build but it brings nothing really New to the table....

Edited August 29, 201311 yr by Kumbbl