Hero Factory 2014 Discussion

[The Crazy One]

I have logged on for the first time in about 6 months just to say that I very much enjoyed Pacific Rim - and while this wave of sets bears many similarities, the fact is it opened up a new and very exciting window to building Lego action figures. I believe, kind sir, that others having a differing opinion from yours does not make them any less valid.

[Bfahome]

Thank you. At least someone here understands what good cinema is besides me. I suppose most of you that think this HF episode was good also think Pacific Rim was like the best thing ever. Good film appreciation is dying.

And the beautiful thing is, you can't count this as off topic because Hero Factory 2014 is totally ripping off this terrible movie.

I thoroughly enjoyed Pacific Rim. It was a big fun movie about giant robots rocket-punching sea aliens. It wasn't pretending to be some gritty cerebral thriller.

That's what I miss about the first waves of Hero Factory. Back then it was less serious and more goofy. HF FM, the ticker, and the funny little bios. I wish they'd kept the bits of self-awareness they had.

The put-downs of those who disagree with you don't really help your case. FYI.

[Vinyl Scratch]

And the beautiful thing is, you can't count this as off topic because Hero Factory 2014 is totally ripping off this terrible movie.

I thought we cleared out the whole "ripping off" thing a few pages ago. Ripping off and homaging are two different things.

also pacific rim wasn't horrible what kind of heresy is this

[DraikNova]

While I don't like Pacific Rim much, it knows it is just the next in a long line of a slightly mildly very extremely cliched genre. It knows that and it runs with it. And anyway, HF's episode was slightly worse, but that can probably be blamed fairly on a lack of budget (you need at least three minutes per set to present each one properly, which you can't do in only one episode).

By the way, early HF wasn't too self-aware either. I noticed at least 18, if not 19 counts of police brutality in "Trials of Furno" alone [insert silly meme of your choice here].

[Bfahome]

By the way, early HF wasn't too self-aware either. I noticed at least 18, if not 19 counts of police brutality in "Trials of Furno" alone [insert silly meme of your choice here].

I haven't read any of the outside story material, so I was going off what was on the website. Like Von Nebula's staff blades that were there to "look scary". "Self-aware" probably isn't the best way to describe it, but it seemed like it wasn't going to take itself so seriously.

[VBBN]

An quickly done episode geared toward kids is not going to be a cinematic masterpiece. It may not have been as good as previous ones, but there's no need to get into a war about it. if you don't like it, it doesn't mean it's bad. When so many other people like it, your opinion is just that, your opinion. No reason to try to force the point

[Jetrax99]

Thank you. At least someone here understands what good cinema is besides me. I suppose most of you that think this HF episode was good also think Pacific Rim was like the best thing ever. Good film appreciation is dying.

And the beautiful thing is, you can't count this as off topic because Hero Factory 2014 is totally ripping off this terrible movie.

Whoah......slow down! I may agree about the IFB episode, but PACIFIC RIM was AWESOMETASTIC!!!!!

[3rdeye88]

If you guys honestly think that crap the IFB episode and Pacific Rim is good then there's clearly no point in me taking your opinions seriously. And that's all I'll say on that matter.

Oh and VBBN, just because its meant for kids doesn't mean it can't be good. Go watch some Looney Tunes, or Avatar The Last Air Bender. Those are intended for kids and the latter especially is an absolute masterpiece.There's no reason something intended children can't be good for adults to. This is the kind of thinking that makes me wonder why all of Hero Factory has gone downhill from the early and middle days of Bionicle. Towards the end Lego was just checked out on it. But this, It could have been the rebirth of a great story tied into the toyline, but it wasn't. It was something slapped on to sell more sets. Hell Chima has been better than this. I'm so ready for Hero Factory to get the ax in 2015.

[Dorek]

You're absolutely right in that something intended for children can find an audience with adults (whether intentionally or unintentionally). You're wrong in just about everything else, including your unnecessary putdowns of other people's opinions; perhaps yours is the one we shouldn't be taking seriously.

Sometimes a children's program finding an audience for adults unintentional (such as the recent My Little Pony phenomenon). Other times, it is designed with innuendo and references in mind that would deliberately speak to older generations (such as your example of Looney Tunes, although some of that stems from evolving levels of censorship). Sometimes shows change to accommodate the unexpected demographics (MLP, the Avatar series, etc). And sometimes something is simply geared entirely towards children, hits the mark, and has no need or want to fit outside of its bubble. There are plenty of children's shows I do not watch because it is not in my own personal interest to do so, because I will not be able to appreciate any of it.

You're obviously not required to like the Hero Factory show, but everybody else can make up their own minds on the subject. I don't think it's a masterpiece by any stretch, but enjoyable enough based on the parameters that I'm invested in. I'm assuming the target audience (i.e. people whose opinions actually matter to the company) enjoys it too, otherwise they wouldn't keep making the episodes.

And I don't really see how LEGO "checked out" on BIONICLE toward the end (in fact, the cancellation was quite abrupt and came as a surprise to many, since it had been outlined for at least a few more years). But your own expectations betray you; thinking that Hero Factory was supposed to be a "great story" is setting the bar too high for what it was always quite upfront about being: a simple, episodic story.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Dorek

[Bfahome]

If you guys honestly think that crap the IFB episode and Pacific Rim is good then there's clearly no point in me taking your opinions seriously. And that's all I'll say on that matter.

You are talking about toys on the internet. Get off your high horse.

The HF TV series is and always has been secondary to the toys, like pretty much any other LEGO media, so there isn't as much effort put into it (doubly so for HF since the focus has shifted towards NinjaGo and Chima as story-driven lines). Shows like Avatar are the primary medium. Seen any good Avatar toys (or films) lately?

As it is, when I watched the abridged episode I thought the animation was the best so far. Probably since they brought Ghost back to make it. Didn't really care for the story, continuing the shift away from story and towards building I've been on since probably around 2006.

Maybe I'll watch it muted with the Pacific Rim soundtrack playing. That might be cool.

[3rdeye88]

You're absolutely right in that something intended for children can find an audience with adults (whether intentionally or unintentionally). You're wrong in just about everything else, including your unnecessary putdowns of other people's opinions; perhaps yours is the one we shouldn't be taking seriously.

Sometimes a children's program finding an audience for adults unintentional (such as the recent My Little Pony phenomenon). Other times, it is designed with innuendo and references in mind that would deliberately speak to older generations (such as your example of Looney Tunes, although some of that stems from evolving levels of censorship). Sometimes shows change to accommodate the unexpected demographics (MLP, the Avatar series, etc). And sometimes something is simply geared entirely towards children, hits the mark, and has no need or want to fit outside of its bubble. There are plenty of children's shows I do not watch because it is not in my own personal interest to do so, because I will not be able to appreciate any of it.

You're obviously not required to like the Hero Factory show, but everybody else can make up their own minds on the subject. I don't think it's a masterpiece by any stretch, but enjoyable enough based on the parameters that I'm invested in. I'm assuming the target audience (i.e. people whose opinions actually matter to the company) enjoys it too, otherwise they wouldn't keep making the episodes.

And I don't really see how LEGO "checked out" on BIONICLE toward the end (in fact, the cancellation was quite abrupt and came as a surprise to many, since it had been outlined for at least a few more years). But your own expectations betray you; thinking that Hero Factory was supposed to be a "great story" is setting the bar too high for what it was always quite upfront about being: a simple, episodic story.

You're right there. Its shifted to Ninjago and Chima and now whats left is a hollow husk of what used to be a great line of buildable figures with a really well thought out story written by a really nice guy. Now its a damned marketing bit. That's all it is. The episodes are practically 22 minute commercials. They might as well just say 'HEY KIDS GO BUY THE TOYS" for that length of time.

And I say that because of this. http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2011/087/c/d/me_meeting_greg_farshtey_by_3rdeye88-d3cnqyi.jpg This is me meeting Greg Farshtey at Comic Con 2006. I talked to him for about two hours and I really grilled him for answers. Like I was telling....Vader? I think that's him. Its all just hearsay, but as of 2006 he was already working on the 2009 story line, but he was having problems because lego had drastically cut the budget to Bionicle. It was more than half from 2006's to then on from what he told me. So that makes me think lego was checking out on it those last three years. Like I said that's just what I've heard directly from the guy who wrote the story for Bionicle. *shrugs* So maybe while the actual decision to end it was abrupt it sounds like they were whittling away the budget for it over the last few years. I look now and we go from 2 episodes to one, one to total crap. I can't help but see a pattern. At least time we see it coming instead of all being blindsided.

You are talking about toys on the internet. Get off your high horse.

The HF TV series is and always has been secondary to the toys, like pretty much any other LEGO media, so there isn't as much effort put into it (doubly so for HF since the focus has shifted towards NinjaGo and Chima as story-driven lines). Shows like Avatar are the primary medium. Seen any good Avatar toys (or films) lately?

As it is, when I watched the abridged episode I thought the animation was the best so far. Probably since they brought Ghost back to make it. Didn't really care for the story, continuing the shift away from story and towards building I've been on since probably around 2006.

Maybe I'll watch it muted with the Pacific Rim soundtrack playing. That might be cool.

This is an entire website devoted to adults talking about toys on the internet. So bite me.

M. Night shamalamadingdong mutilated the film, but yes I have seen some good Avatar toys. http://brickset.com/...-Last-Airbender

Edited February 24, 2014 by VBBN
Large photo changed to link

[xxlrocka]

If you guys honestly think that crap the IFB episode and Pacific Rim is good then there's clearly no point in me taking your opinions seriously. And that's all I'll say on that matter.

Nono, we think that Pacific Rim is sorta cool (especially the fight scenes ) but the IFB mini-movie was the worst thing to happen to LEGO since Galidor. Of course, I guess I kinda liked the detailed beasts and jumpers but...

Let's just say that this is a forum about toys that are liked/loved/whatever-ed by adults. It makes every single one of your arguments invalid and basically we are talking about toys and Pacific Rim is awesome so shut your face.

[3rdeye88]

Nono, we think that Pacific Rim is sorta cool (especially the fight scenes ) but the IFB mini-movie was the worst thing to happen to LEGO since Galidor. Of course, I guess I kinda liked the detailed beasts and jumpers but...

Let's just say that this is a forum about toys that are liked/loved/whatever-ed by adults. It makes every single one of your arguments invalid and basically we are talking about toys and Pacific Rim is awesome so shut your face.

:lol: okay. That feels like a good compromise so I can live with that.

[DraikNova]

As long as you stop insulting people, it's fine what you think about it. Just as long as it doesn't turn the HF fanbase into the transformers one.

Really, we all know IfB isn't the best, but as far as toy line stories go, it's pretty good. No actual plot holes, just a bit of dubious decisionmaking, which is more than can be said for some high-budget stories. And Pacific Rim...well, watching it gives me the feeling it was half intended as a parody of it's genres.

Edited February 24, 2014 by DraikNova

[Logan McOwen]

Damn 3rdeye, you're so disagreeable! Way to turn a thread full of decent speculation and excitement into your personal "I DON'T LIKE THIS AND IF YOU DO YOU SUCK" zone. You're not helping this discussion at all...

[ZORK64]

While I wasn't aware of the majority of Bionicle's plot, the few movies I watched also felt to me that they were little more than "toy commercials" - but I won't complain about that, because I'm a Transformers fan, and as such, I'm completely aware that any form of media for toy-driven franchises solely exists to sell toys. Heck, I haven't watched the Invasion from Below episode yet simply because I don't pay much attention to the HF movies anyway, but thanks to this lengthy conversation, I'm about to check it out myself (if someone could give me a hint where to find it).

That being said, I agree with LewiMOC and would appreciate it if we stop to derailing this topic into a debate about Pacific Rim and the quality of the HF movies (especially since there wass already a topic for the latter, and I'm sure there's also one for the former).

Edited February 24, 2014 by ZORK64

[bacem]

While I wasn't aware of the majority of Bionicle's plot, the few movies I watched also felt to me that they were little more than "toy commercials" - but I won't complain about that, because I'm a Transformers fan, and as such, I'm completely aware that any form of media for toy-driven franchises solely exists to sell toys. Heck, I haven't watched the Invasion from Below episode yet simply because I don't pay much attention to the HF movies anyway, but thanks to this lengthy conversation, I'm about to check it out myself (if someone could give me a hint where to find it).

That being said, I agree with LewiMOC and would appreciate it if we stop to derailing this topic into a debate about Pacific Rim and the quality of the HF movies (especially since there wass already a topic for the latter, and I'm sure there's also one for the former).

you can always find the movie on youtube, just search "hero factory invasion from below movie full" or something along that lines.

[3rdeye88]

As long as you stop insulting people, it's fine what you think about it. Just as long as it doesn't turn the HF fanbase into the transformers one.

Really, we all know IfB isn't the best, but as far as toy line stories go, it's pretty good. No actual plot holes, just a bit of dubious decisionmaking, which is more than can be said for some high-budget stories. And Pacific Rim...well, watching it gives me the feeling it was half intended as a parody of it's genres.

I don't really understand that reference. What is the Tansformer Fanbase like?

I think you're sugar coating it to be polite, If you think its crap(like I do) then just say it. I'm just saying what I actually think and feel. My honest opinion is that Its complete crap and calling it anything less than that would be me sugar coating things. I'm just not going to do that. I'm going to be honest with myself and be honest with you guys. See, that would have worked, but I just don't get that feeling from Pacific Rim. It takes itself too seriously, doesn't poke fun at the genre in anyway. I get the feeling that it was meant as a serious attempt at that genre.

To get back on topic. Has there been any kind of interview or dialog from the set designers about HF 2014 and why they went with Minifigs or any kind of acknowledgement that they blatantly ripped off Pacific Rim? I know they'd say they were "Inspired" but that's just polite "company policy forbids us from admitting we're out of ideas and had to rip off the movie of the week this time around." I like that they went the Minifig route simply for the fact that it will hopefully get the Minifig fanatics to buy a HF set or take more interest because there's a Minifig, which will hopefully push sales in a better direction. I took Huw on Brickset doing a review as a sign of that already happening. But at the same time it kinda sucks because those parts end up taking a lot of the "real estate" this time around.

[Lyichir]

I don't really understand that reference. What is the Tansformer Fanbase like?

I think you're sugar coating it to be polite, If you think its crap(like I do) then just say it. I'm just saying what I actually think and feel. My honest opinion is that Its complete crap and calling it anything less than that would be me sugar coating things. I'm just not going to do that. I'm going to be honest with myself and be honest with you guys. See, that would have worked, but I just don't get that feeling from Pacific Rim. It takes itself too seriously, doesn't poke fun at the genre in anyway. I get the feeling that it was meant as a serious attempt at that genre.

To get back on topic. Has there been any kind of interview or dialog from the set designers about HF 2014 and why they went with Minifigs or any kind of acknowledgement that they blatantly ripped off Pacific Rim? I know they'd say they were "Inspired" but that's just polite "company policy forbids us from admitting we're out of ideas and had to rip off the movie of the week this time around." I like that they went the Minifig route simply for the fact that it will hopefully get the Minifig fanatics to buy a HF set or take more interest because there's a Minifig, which will hopefully push sales in a better direction. I took Huw on Brickset doing a review as a sign of that already happening. But at the same time it kinda sucks because those parts end up taking a lot of the "real estate" this time around.

The difference between a "rip-off" and and "homage" is blurry, but I'd say that since there are no Pacific Rim building toys and this year's HF sets only have slight resemblances to anything from Pacific Rim, I think this would qualify as an homage. If you consider this a rip-off, then by the same standard many beloved Lego themes, including Adventurers, Fantasy Castle, Dino, Alien Conquest, and Agents, would probably also be considered "rip-offs". That's a heck of an accusation.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Lyichir

[DraikNova]

Being honest about insulting people for no reason is not any better than being dishonest and "sugar coating it". Seriously, you're getting to the point where moderators should be called in.

Incidentally, the Transformers fandom is rather...ridiculous, to say the least. I can get you a pretty darn good explanation if you want.

Also, we handled the whole ripoff=/=homage thing a while back. Look a couple pages back on the forum if you want, but let's not restart topics that have been discussed to the most minute of details. I even ended up using the "Rhedosaurus Clause", which should tell you how unfounded this comparison is.

Edited February 25, 2014 by DraikNova

[Dorek]

you can always find the movie on youtube, just search "hero factory invasion from below movie full" or something along that lines.

It's actually on the website too, if you want a direct route.

I don't really understand that reference. What is the Tansformer Fanbase like?

I think you're sugar coating it to be polite, If you think its crap(like I do) then just say it. I'm just saying what I actually think and feel. My honest opinion is that Its complete crap and calling it anything less than that would be me sugar coating things. I'm just not going to do that. I'm going to be honest with myself and be honest with you guys. See, that would have worked, but I just don't get that feeling from Pacific Rim. It takes itself too seriously, doesn't poke fun at the genre in anyway. I get the feeling that it was meant as a serious attempt at that genre.

To get back on topic. Has there been any kind of interview or dialog from the set designers about HF 2014 and why they went with Minifigs or any kind of acknowledgement that they blatantly ripped off Pacific Rim? I know they'd say they were "Inspired" but that's just polite "company policy forbids us from admitting we're out of ideas and had to rip off the movie of the week this time around." I like that they went the Minifig route simply for the fact that it will hopefully get the Minifig fanatics to buy a HF set or take more interest because there's a Minifig, which will hopefully push sales in a better direction. I took Huw on Brickset doing a review as a sign of that already happening. But at the same time it kinda sucks because those parts end up taking a lot of the "real estate" this time around.

Calling it "crap" is not only unnecessarily insulting, it's ignoring that you are not intended to be the one enjoying it. "Not enjoying something" and it "being crap" are remarkably different things (one is a subjective interpretation while the other is an objective judgment), and not realizing the difference between the two is rather disingenuous.

The difference between a "rip-off" and and "homage" is blurry, but I'd say that since there are no Pacific Rim building toys and this year's HF sets only have slight resemblances to anything from Pacific Rim, I think this would qualify as an homage. If you consider this a rip-off, then by the same standard many beloved Lego themes, including Adventurers, Fantasy Castle, Dino, Alien Conquest, and Agents, would probably also be considered "rip-offs". That's a heck of an accusation.

There's also the middle ground of "capitalizing on a trend". A rip-off would be, say, all of those clone games in smartphone app stores. I agree that this is decidedly "inspired by".

[3rdeye88]

The difference between a "rip-off" and and "homage" is blurry, but I'd say that since there are no Pacific Rim building toys and this year's HF sets only have slight resemblances to anything from Pacific Rim, I think this would qualify as an homage. If you consider this a rip-off, then by the same standard many beloved Lego themes, including Adventurers, Fantasy Castle, Dino, Alien Conquest, and Agents, would probably also be considered "rip-offs". That's a heck of an accusation.

and one I stand by. Okay if they had just done the beasts...that'd been fine. But we have "beasts" that come from below the surface of the planet that look similar to the aesthetic of the aliens in PR, and then the Heros opperate mechs to fight them. If it was any one element by itself I'd agree that its an homage, or a hat tip, but its all the elements together at the same time that make me call it a blatant rip-off. Its like "did you guys even try coming up with some ideas this year?"

Being honest about insulting people for no reason is not any better than being dishonest and "sugar coating it". Seriously, you're getting to the point where moderators should be called in.

Incidentally, the Transformers fandom is rather...ridiculous, to say the least. I can get you a pretty darn good explanation if you want.

Also, we handled the whole ripoff=/=homage thing a while back. Look a couple pages back on the forum if you want, but let's not restart topics that have been discussed to the most minute of details. I even ended up using the "Rhedosaurus Clause", which should tell you how unfounded this comparison is.

You keep saying I'm insulting people. Who am I insulting? Just because you're offended by my opinion about a thing isn't my problem.

I suspected that it was discussed somewhere. I came in late. So give me the synopsis of the argument please. And yes I would like to know more about the Transformer community.

It's actually on the website too, if you want a direct route.

Calling it "crap" is not only unnecessarily insulting, it's ignoring that you are not intended to be the one enjoying it. "Not enjoying something" and it "being crap" are remarkably different things (one is a subjective interpretation while the other is an objective judgment), and not realizing the difference between the two is rather disingenuous.

There's also the middle ground of "capitalizing on a trend". A rip-off would be, say, all of those clone games in smartphone app stores. I agree that this is decidedly "inspired by".

Its my opinion, and I'm entitled to it just as you are. Its not even an opinion about you so why do you care? I think its complete crap and I'm going to keep calling it crap. If that bothers you then too bad. I don't remember there being anything in the rules about having to have opinions everyone likes. I'm not Emmet. I'm gonna have my opinion regardless of whether someone like you is okay with it or not.

The above statement covers why I call it a rip-off.

Oh and I'd just like to get something cleared up...Just because you guys had a conversation about something means that you can't ever have the conversation again when a newcomer comes along? Thanks for the warm welcome you guys.

[korpen4444]

Dude, it's fine to have an opinion, but don't say other people's opinions are wrong just cause they differ. You're acting immature. Some of us like HF, and this years sets. Get over it.

[Kalhiki]

Who are you insulting?

If you guys honestly think that crap the IFB episode and Pacific Rim is good then there's clearly no point in me taking your opinions seriously. And that's all I'll say on that matter.

Anyone who likes Pacific Rim and IFB.

Listen, man. You are entitled to your own opinion, and I respect that. Just like you should respect that other people have their own opinions. Opinions that you should take seriously.

Okay, folks. Can we be done with this whole argument? Please?

[Bfahome]

Thanks for the warm welcome you guys.

If you'd introduced yourself in a way other than "wow all your opinions are terrible" you might've gotten a better reception.

P.S. by about the twelfth time someone pops into the topic and says "hey guys, has anyone else noticed that these sets are similar to Pacific Rim?" it gets a bit old. It's been happening for literally months now.

The mecha genre has been around for a long time. So has the kaiju genre. So has the combination of the two. Pacific Rim was meant to be a throwback to a lot of them.

(Also the kaiju in Pacific Rim had very different aesthetics between them. You can't really say that the IFB kaiju look like the PR kaiju because there's a lok of variety there.)

(Also, creatures from underground that the heroes battle with robotic armor.)

Edited February 25, 2014 by Bfahome