Heroica RPG - Cruel Angel's Thesis ~ Final Day

[Kadabra]

Out of curiosity, who ended up with the mysterious counter strike gloves?

I started with a pair.

[CorneliusMurdock]

Between the transparency of the day and night actions, the magnifying glasses, and the essences, it was impossible for us to win and that diminished my enjoyment of the game somewhat.

For a game that was different in many ways to mafia, we had no time for a learning curve. The only time I attacked, CMP the first night, made me immediately suspect. Being seen protecting Shadows sealed my fate. It was only a matter of time before enough people attacked me before I could protect myself.

I did have some fun poking Kadabra and CMP for a few days and trying to cause as much confusion as possible before my death. I'd like to think I got a few townies killed. But overall it was exhausting trying to keep my head above water.

Too much common sense going around for me to fool people for long. And not enough bloodthirstiness for town to destroy itself.

I think we as a scum team did our best. If there weren't so many methods for exposing us, we were in many different camps manipulating people. I'm proud of us.

[Brickdoctor]

Also, as requested, more PM quotes: (This game was insanely fun over PM. Probably the most fun in any mafia-type game I've played. Thanks, Pie and Kadabra!)

All food lies are made with a grain of truth.

You mean a grain of salt?

I don't like grains. They're coarse and rough and irritating, and they get everywhere. Not like here. Here everything's soft... and smooth...

If we're going to spam quotes again, you need a better jumping off point than that crap.

You're making me cringe just thinking of that scene.

Five and a half hours and we've theoretically got 3 scum killed. Nice.

Also, no. Just no.

Nooooooooooooooooooo!

No, I shouldn't have done that.

I'm sorry. When I'm around you, my mind is no longer my own.

No worries. It's the situation. The stress.

MegaBloks, I can't tell if you're joking or not because I don't recognize that as a quote.

Those were quotes from the Shaak scene.

Ha.

It wasn’t us! It wasn’t us! Brickdoctor wouldn’t use bad quotes. We promised. You must believe us. It was the precious. The precious made us do it.

You have to quit using them, Brickdoctor. For all our sakes.

We wants it. We needs it. Must have the bad quotes. They stole them from us. Sneaky little memberses. Wicked. Tricksy. False.

No. Not master.

Yes, precious. False. They will cheat you, hurt you, lie!

Master's my friend.

You don't have any friends. Nobody likes you.

Not listening. I'm not listening.

Go away.

Go away?

I hate you. I hate you.

I saved us. It was me. We survived because of me. Brickdoctor, Brickdoctor.

Not anymore.

What did you say?

Master looks after us now. We don't need you.

What?

Leave now......and never come back.

Leave now and never come back.

Leave now and never come back!

We told him to go away. And away he goes, precious. Gone! Gone! Gone! Brickdoctor is free!

Tell me, friend.

When did Brickdoctor abandon reason for madness?

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

It's your excessive re-watching of movies. They've addled your brain, and...damaged your sanity.

[Kadabra]

Between the transparency of the day and night actions, the magnifying glasses, and the essences, it was impossible for us to win and that diminished my enjoyment of the game somewhat.

For a game that was different in many ways to mafia, we had no time for a learning curve. The only time I attacked, CMP the first night, made me immediately suspect. Being seen protecting Shadows sealed my fate. It was only a matter of time before enough people attacked me before I could protect myself.

I did have some fun poking Kadabra and CMP for a few days and trying to cause as much confusion as possible before my death. I'd like to think I got a few townies killed. But overall it was exhausting trying to keep my head above water.

Too much common sense going around for me to fool people for long. And not enough bloodthirstiness for town to destroy itself.

I think we as a scum team did our best. If there weren't so many methods for exposing us, we were in many different camps manipulating people. I'm proud of us.

Called it. But yes, I think the scum team did remarkably well considering the circumstances! Bravo.

[Zepher]

I actually feel for the scum in this one. I didn't have a great time, only because it became clear very early on that we'd win extremely easily. There was no challenge, so it feels like a sort of hollow victory.

BUT, that being said I think it was a MOSTLY well designed game. The flaws, I think, are obvious: the transparency of the actions and the Phoenix Essences. Other than that, the conversion of Heroica to Mafia was very well done. I enjoyed playing Zelphie, and some of the character designs were simply outstanding: U'Dragan, Enya, Pallas, Panduin, Theodor and Retak (particularly the first and last) are some of my favorite builds of characters I've seen in a good long while. The sets were are nice as always.

I have to, sadly, echo the others in saying that the ending seemed a little contrived, and Zelphie certainly would have stuck around. I did enjoy the chance to play as someone other than Boomingham, though, and she's a character I very much enjoy and may one day reuse, if someone doesn't beat me to it. I thought the roleplaying, before it was dropped, was quite a bit of fun - if we had been given the quest we'd just returned from or something I think that would have been a fun little way to add in a little bit more, and allow for more interaction. Over all it was a massive undertaking and you did it well! The balance just wasn't quite there.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

I share everyone's feelings. Great game, and the the mix of 2 games here on EB was awesome! Thanks for letting me play.

Also, I started with a pair of Counter-Strike gloves too.

[Tachyon]

I feel like the necromancer was supposed to be the nephallim's answer to the town's phoenix essences.

[Kadabra]

I feel like the necromancer was supposed to be the nephallim's answer to the town's phoenix essences.

But it was just RP and an attack multiplier, not legit resurrection/conversion.

[Chromeknight]

I feel like the necromancer was supposed to be the nephallim's answer to the town's phoenix essences.

I got the sense that the classes were written before being sorted into Nephilim/hero. So no class was 'scummier' than any other. And no class was essential to the balance of the scum team. Sure, combos were possible but each hero should have been 'playable' on their own.

Several heroes could 'steal' which might have been seen as scummy.

I, as a Harlot could inflict negative effects chosen at random from a list.

The black knight could hide, the winged warrior could fly, several heroes could block or cover.

The list goes on...

Edited September 24, 2013 by Chromeknight

[Kadabra]

I got the sense that the classes were written before being sorted into Nephilim/hero. So no class was 'scummier' than any other. And no class was essential to the balance of the scum team. Sure, combos were possible but each hero should have been 'playable' on their own.

Several heroes could 'steal' which might have been seen as scummy.

I, as a Harlot could inflict negative effects chosen at random from a list.

The black knight could hide, the winged warrior could fly, several heroes could block or cover.

The list goes on...

Props to you, too! I can't believe I was thinking you were scummy but then got convinced otherwise. Out of curiosity, who was your converter?

[Brickdoctor]

Out of curiosity, who was your converter?

Shadows.

[Flipz]

Time for some honesty:

I signed up for CAT against my better judgment. I wanted to support Sandy and the Heroica anniversary, but at the same time I knew that I wouldn't be able to be active enough for a game like this, and I absolutely loathe playing Scum--I don't think I'll ever play Mafia again, anywhere, just because of that risk I'll get drafted. My scum-mates were awesome, and they made it bearable, but Scum-hood was still more of a burden than a privilege. And yes, I'm fully aware that I'm just a soft-hearted sentimental weakling who's not cut out for Mafia--like I said, honesty time.

This game was absolutely brutal on me. If there had been more deaths per phase (or hell, even just a permanent converter role to even the odds from the damn Alchemist), I could have gotten by with the level of activity I had, but with the Phoenix Essences and Magnifying glasses screwing us over every time we caught a break? I have a life to live outside of EB, and I just couldn't swing a proper CAT run without ruining that life.

In fact, I think the absolute number one problem with this game was real-time action tallying. In Heroica, a PvE playing field, real-time actions are fine for the most part (Q44 Pandemonicon situation, I'm looking at you as the exception). IMO, in any PvP environment (which includes the Arena), actions should happen in a predetermined order (even if that order is simply determined by dice roll), not in real time. Several people on the Scum team got killed simply because they had a real life and couldn't be online the MOMENT the day/night started, and that's just not cool.

I was also disappointed by the inconsistency in day starts. I know there's nothing Sandy could have done there, but personally, I would have preferred longer delays between Days and Nights if that meant getting the phase shift at the EXACT same time each day--it would have made the real-time thing just a little more fair, at least. I'm specifically thinking of the day where I got up at 4:30 am my time just to be sure I was up for the phase shift, and then it didn't happen until I was in class at 10:30.

I also agree with the statements saying that Night-time actions should have been completely blind. Would have, in fact, made it funner for both sides.

I'm curious, why did people find me scummy? I literally tried to play a pure Town game, with the exception of passing info to my teammates and helping them plot their actions--I even had to apologize to the Scum a couple times for pointing out flaws in the Town's logic, making it easier for them to find us. The only two times I actually attacked, I was doing it on orders from the Town.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Flipz

[The Legonater]

I'm curious, why did people find me scummy? I literally tried to play a pure Town game, with the exception of passing info to my teammates and helping them plot their actions--I even had to apologize to the Scum a couple times for pointing out flaws in the Town's logic, making it easier for them to find us. The only two times I actually attacked, I was doing it on orders from the Town.

I think the number 1 reason was because you hid right at the beginning of nearly every single day, making it impossible to attack you.

[Brickdoctor]

I'm curious, why did people find me scummy? I literally tried to play a pure Town game, with the exception of passing info to my teammates and helping them plot their actions--I even had to apologize to the Scum a couple times for pointing out flaws in the Town's logic, making it easier for them to find us. The only two times I actually attacked, I was doing it on orders from the Town.

You claimed Neutral to someone in our core; I forgot who. It didn't automatically make you seem scummy, and in fact we accepted it, but it put you onto the list of people who were suspicious. After that...I went on vacation, was converted, and then I died, so I don't remember exactly.

[Flipz]

I think the number 1 reason was because you hid right at the beginning of nearly every single day, making it impossible to attack you.

Also suits a Survivor, or a Townie who's afraid of Scum. Not everyone on the planet is 100% selfless.

[Brickdoctor]

I think the number 1 reason was because you hid right at the beginning of nearly every single day, making it impossible to attack you.

No, that made sense. Get the protective action in as soon as you can to avoid being picked off by a ranged killer, then change later once we have a plan. Everyone who could've should've done it.

[Chromeknight]

Props to you, too! I can't believe I was thinking you were scummy but then got convinced otherwise. Out of curiosity, who was your converter?

If this is directed at me, I was scum from the start. And that's my regular scum game.

I've played 4 games of mafia (witchbreed, bedtime story, Ragnarok now, and C.A.T) and been scum in three of them. Unlike Flipz, I don't mind being scum, I like knowing what's going on.

[CMP]

Also suits a Survivor, or a Townie who's afraid of Scum. Not everyone on the planet is 100% selfless.

Townies should be.

Fantastic work to the scum team, too. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time, and I never got the impression it was so unbalanced, but maybe that's because I was an easy one hit kill and underestimated the rest of the town.

[Flipz]

Townies should be.

Fantastic work to the scum team, too. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time, and I never got the impression it was so unbalanced, but maybe that's because I was an easy one hit kill and underestimated the rest of the town.

Well, we couldn't one-hit anyone, and if we failed to completely kill someone, we'd be exposed and instantly killed. Additionally, the Town got to bring back unlimited people (via the Alchemist) and had a minimum of four Cops via Magnifying Glasses, whereas we had exactly one conversion (via a consumable, the Angel's Whisper) and had zero chance to revive our own.

We also had to contend with Scuba, who was completely unbalanced. If Ether was a totally finite resource, it would have been fine, but his ability to act multiple times per phase was nuts.

(Not your fault, Scuba, you used your abilities well. )

[swils]

For what it's worth, Flipz, this is what Doc's referring to:

but if I understand my abilities correctly, all I have to do to win is just spam Hide for the rest of the game.

I asked afterwards if, by saying that, you meant you were neutral/had a third-party win condition, but you never answered that. The statement, combined with avoiding the following question and changing the topic, raised a flag for me.

[Waterbrick Down]

I agree with a lot of your comments, Flipz.

I'm curious, why did people find me scummy? I literally tried to play a pure Town game, with the exception of passing info to my teammates and helping them plot their actions--I even had to apologize to the Scum a couple times for pointing out flaws in the Town's logic, making it easier for them to find us. The only two times I actually attacked, I was doing it on orders from the Town.

We got down to a point where there were very few suspects left outside the town block and since we knew Geosmos was a Neutral we found it somewhat less plausible for you to be one as well. Edited September 24, 2013 by Waterbrick Down

[Chromeknight]

We got down to a point where there were very few suspects left outside the town block and since we knew Geosmos was a Neutral we found it somewhat less plausible for you to be one as well.

I know it's posing a hypothetical, but if LotN hadn't come forward with the investigation on me, would I have been suspected?

[Waterbrick Down]

I know it's posing a hypothetical, but if LotN hadn't come forward with the investigation on me, would I have been suspected?

Probably not.

[Flipz]

For what it's worth, Flipz, this is what Doc's referring to:

I asked afterwards if, by saying that, you meant you were neutral/had a third-party win condition, but you never answered that. The statement, combined with avoiding the following question and changing the topic, raised a flag for me.

Damn. I legitimately lost the reply PM to a bug (the PM editor likes to eat my PMs sometimes, and since there's no auto-save... ), and I honestly just forgot to try again.

[swils]

Damn. I legitimately lost the reply PM to a bug (the PM editor likes to eat my PMs sometimes, and since there's no auto-save... ), and I honestly just forgot to try again.

Heh, and I didn't want to bring it back up lest I seem as though I was fishing for a role/allegiance!