Generic Contest Discussion

[Ngoc Nguyen]

Contest idea: Function-ize a pullback set. Pick a pullback Technic set, remove the pullback motor, then put steering, drive train, fake engine, suspensions to it. 

My entry: https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-96351/nguyengiangoc/42138-manual-version/

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Ngoc Nguyen

[SaperPL]

1 hour ago, Berthil said:

Sticking 100% to the top categories might bring you glory but could be less fun as you are building in categories you find less challenging and fun. Models might also look alike a lot.

The point is for those who want to take a part in health fair competition, the outline what is more important in scoring will let them make informed decision. Rules, restrictions and limitations are what makes things more challenging, not randomness.

Well, if the contest would be about replicating some lego set and the criteria would explicitly state that the number of implemented functions count and are valued the most, obviously this would end up with a lot of entries being the same model with a lot of functions, but at the same time the criteria could be the ratio of implemented function to original or at least X amount of functions etc. Still it would mean that we would have similarities to adhere to the rules, but it's similar to for example size requirements for TC18 where you had to make a car fitting car transporter and still people made different cars.

1 hour ago, Berthil said:

With the category system we can have transparency upfront and public voting without much extra effort and keep having fun.

This gives us transparency for how the categories votes work, but not how jury is scoring in each category. How they will score will depend on whether there are specific criteria for scoring with explanation of how things are scored/penalised. And with this doesn't happen, then jury can still significantly affect the results without being transparent.

 

40 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

Contest idea: Function-ize a pullback set. Pick a pullback Technic set, remove the pullback motor, then put steering, drive train, fake engine, suspensions to it. 

Interesting idea - streamlined and potentially not as cumbersome for part collection as the ones where we go for full custom models, but I'm afraid that this is an example where we could end up with a lot of similar entries due to the requirements of those specific functions.

Rather than that, I would consider a contest for car transporter scale modular car with suspension and fake engine where the chassis is something that can be shown separately and used for other body. You could enter with a body from a pullback mustang or senna, bolide or tecnica if you want, but it wouldn't be a must.

[Ngoc Nguyen]

2 minutes ago, SaperPL said:

I'm afraid that this is an example where we could end up with a lot of similar entries due to the requirements of those specific functions.

This year marks the 10th year that pullback models appear in the modern Technic line. There are at least 2 models a year, and let's allow B models and combination models, then there are 40 models to choose from.

[SaperPL]

10 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

This year marks the 10th year that pullback models appear in the modern Technic line. There are at least 2 models a year, and let's allow B models and combination models, then there are 40 models to choose from.

Yes, but most of them were really small for both fake piston engine and suspension unless we're talking about potential upscaling them / "reimagining" them into what could they be. 

Unless it could be a contest where mustang and 99X are excluded from the selection and it's only about those smaller ones and everyone has to figure out how to handle it in wacky way. It could be an interesting contest.

[Erik Leppen]

15 hours ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

Contest idea: Function-ize a pullback set. Pick a pullback Technic set, remove the pullback motor, then put steering, drive train, fake engine, suspensions to it. 

On one hand, I like this idea. It's

• concrete and immediately clear what the goal is
• small, so overseeable for those with little time

On the other hand,

• we're complaining for some years now about how there are too many cars in this theme
• the last competition was already set-based, so I'd prefer doing something not-set-based this time.
• it's hard to judge, because entries look like their respective sets and the differences are mostly on the inside

What if the organization just picks a vehicle type, say, loaders, and just does a "build a loader" competition. The TC8 "Build a crane" was one of my favorite competitions, because we saw so many different versions that still were all cranes. OK, cranes bring a lot more variation than loaders or excavators etc., but I think a more "normal" competition to just build the best [pick your construction vehicle] is good to have again. To make it more varied, we could just do a "build a truck" competition. Easy to understand, easy to get ideas for, and you can make it as simple or challenging as you want.

I think it's good to have a balance, and variety, between categories like

• set-based competitions (studless-ify, shrink/grow, ...)
• "weird" competitions (such as the cops vs bandits)
• "normal" vehicle competitions (cranes, trucks, ...)
• car competitions
• water/air based competitions
• etc.

 

[steph77]

I do not post that much these times, but let me tell my feeling here.

Reading the regardless post, i can understand @Jim's feeling about predefined idea for contest.

My thought is that Mocs are all about building.

They are many ways to achive a same goal and the interresting things comes when, for a same purpose, contestant discovers many differents ways to achieve it.

So, whatever the theme may be, my proposition is a contest where all contestants have to build the same thing.

To complexify it a bit, all model should :

- have to be able to do a specific thing ( a broom truck must be able to pick up 1X1 round bricks for exemple,...)

- Integrate a specific linkage, (as klann linkage for exemple)

- ...

Criterias should be oriented both on global design,technical achievement of the specific common function, thing to integraze, clean build, etc..

 

[howitzer]

I've suggested a build a truck -competition couple of times before, and I bet that would make for a great contest. I'm not sure though if there should be a scale target, as otherwise the big entries would have a significant advantage with more functions, more details and overall better looks. Maybe something like 42128 scale?

[Jundis]

2 hours ago, howitzer said:

I've suggested a build a truck -competition couple of times before, and I bet that would make for a great contest. I'm not sure though if there should be a scale target, as otherwise the big entries would have a significant advantage with more functions, more details and overall better looks. Maybe something like 42128 scale?

Full support here. To achieve the same scale, we can narrow it down to use only wheels that fit on 30.4 mm rims. It worked great for TC18.

Still my preferred contest would be PU contest with 1 normal hub and max of 4 motors with at least 1 function which is neither driving nor steering. As I said, this can also be good that the community will learn Control+ App.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Jundis

[msk6003]

I don't know about function but how about build technic 'building'?

[Lipko]

5 hours ago, Erik Leppen said:

I think it's good to have a balance, and variety, between categories like

• set-based competitions (studless-ify, shrink/grow, ...)
• "weird" competitions (such as the cops vs bandits)
• "normal" vehicle competitions (cranes, trucks, ...)
• car competitions
• water/air based competitions
• etc.

 

• anymals
• real space related stuff
• manufacturing machinery
• working musical instrument (anything that can produce real melodies)

[Ngoc Nguyen]

I wanna see a household appliances competition in which someone does a fully functional technic toilet.

[gyenesvi]

2 hours ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

I wanna see a household appliances competition in which someone does a fully functional technic toilet.

Well, at least we've got technic toilet paper rolls for that.. :D

I also like the truck competition idea with some wheel size (especially with PU), though I think it should be decided whether race trucks or functional / construction trucks are the goal. I also like the idea of possibly mixing the two to some extent with the constraint that it has to have at least one non drive/steer function.

[SaperPL]

58 minutes ago, gyenesvi said:

I also like the truck competition idea with some wheel size (especially with PU), though I think it should be decided whether race trucks or functional / construction trucks are the goal. I also like the idea of possibly mixing the two to some extent with the constraint that it has to have at least one non drive/steer function.

I also like the idea of truck competition, but I'd prefer the size to be defined by width/fitting in a frame and matching scale rather than which wheel size you'd use because this way you'll be able to make a truck that uses bigger or smaller wheels in proportion to overall size without being allowed or forced to make a smaller or larger model overall.

Secondly, I'm wondering if it could be good to make a contest where you have to have exactly specific amount of functions on top of basic ones like steering/engine/suspension, rather than at least specific amount meaning you have to do exactly two or three and no more. This could potentially mean having more interesting builds focused on single main function and less of those common trucks with knuckle boom cranes.

For example a semi tractor that has control over trailer's supports/stands and/or ramp at the back of trailer through the fifth wheel could be an interesting build. In general either semi truck with trailer or trailer itself at specific size could be a cool competition to have if we'd get a specific size of the tractor chassis for it. If we were to go for the RC, the challenge to tackle could be to have all motors either in the trailer or in the tractor and there must be some motorized functions in the trailer - trailer is bigger so it's easier to fit stuff inside, but the steering input through the fifth wheel is tricky.

[Ngoc Nguyen]

If there is to be a truck competition, I'd rather have the model predefined, like a semi truck/tractor truck + trailer contest. Folks can go wild with the functions they wanna put in the trailer. Or just a semi truck contest, but that might be too limiting.

[SaperPL]

48 minutes ago, Ngoc Nguyen said:

I'd rather have the model predefined, like a semi truck/tractor truck + trailer contest. Folks can go wild with the functions they wanna put in the trailer.

You mean not to limit the amount of potential functions amount? If it's about semi truck with trailer then yeah, but for standalone truck without trailer it'd end up either with same types of trucks that we see everywhere. One really well made function + one secondary function in a specific scale/size feels more interesting and approachable than competing who can squeeze more common functions into the build.

The good examples are the bar scanner truck that has pick up and dump functions or 8109 that I was redoing which has platform elevation with rear axle kneeling as one function and tow bar as another. In both cases it's good enough for making the model not just a truck, but it makes it so that you need to figure out some kind of utility vehicle for which you can make that one function in a really cool way rather than going for standard mobile crane/cherry picker/tow truck with outriggers and crane arm operated by multiple cranks.

[howitzer]

Yes, for truck contest the scale limitation should be something other than wheel size, probably width would be best. For example, 15 studs wide chassis/exterior, with mirrors allowed to extend outside of that but the rest must fit within.

[SaperPL]

57 minutes ago, howitzer said:

Yes, for truck contest the scale limitation should be something other than wheel size, probably width would be best. For example, 15 studs wide chassis/exterior, with mirrors allowed to extend outside of that but the rest must fit within.

I wonder if just width should be enough, maybe maximum length would be good as well, so it won't end up with some people building things like topol-M or some road trains while everyone else would try to make some reasonably sized standard truck.

[howitzer]

9 minutes ago, SaperPL said:

I wonder if just width should be enough, maybe maximum length would be good as well, so it won't end up with some people building things like topol-M or some road trains while everyone else would try to make some reasonably sized standard truck.

I don't see reason why road trains shouldn't be allowed, building one just shows that one has plenty of parts at their disposal.

[SaperPL]

12 minutes ago, howitzer said:

I don't see reason why road trains shouldn't be allowed, building one just shows that one has plenty of parts at their disposal.

For me the point of size restriction is to prevent gaining points for awesomeness factor just because you have more parts. Yes, in case of simple road train that might not make much difference, you're right, I just dropped that there as an example.

Maybe a better example would be doing something like oversize load transport where the load would be some huge wind turbine or bridge part that would make the whole thing really long despite the big thing not really being part of a Technic truck itself.

But mainly length limit for the sake of not going into long soviet military trucks just to be able to build something bigger.

[gyenesvi]

2 hours ago, howitzer said:

I don't see reason why road trains shouldn't be allowed, building one just shows that one has plenty of parts at their disposal.

I tend to believe that a restriction on length does make sense, in order to make entries more comparable and less dominated by long entries.

I think it can even make sense in case of an RC competition, for example maximizing the number of wheels. Otherwise, such a competition could easily be dominated by trucks with more wheels, as opposed to trucks with good suspension for example. It all depends on what we want a competition to be focused on; brute force, or building skill.

[howitzer]

I find it hard to believe that making a very long trailer (or many trailers) would earn much points or admiration unless the build was also otherwise great. This argument that size equals great success in contests gets thrown around a lot, but does it actually happen? Can someone name a few instances of large but badly built thing outcompeting smaller but well built entries?

[Berthil]

I would welcome a Model Team contest, this is the 'LEGO Technic, Mindstorms, Model Team and Scale Modeling' forum. Technic we had a lot, Mindstorms has been discontinued, Model Team and Scale Modeling with a good combination of Technic and System remains.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Berthil
typos

[SaperPL]

40 minutes ago, howitzer said:

This argument that size equals great success in contests gets thrown around a lot, but does it actually happen? Can someone name a few instances of large but badly built thing outcompeting smaller but well built entries?

You can fit more functions in a bigger model. Of course if you make a low quality model that's just bigger, it doesn't do it, but it's easier to achieve awesomeness factor with a larger model.

In the most recent contest I think all of the winning entries were the ones with most functions/mechanisms, one of them being really small, but still it is easier to fit more functions in a bigger model and still look good. Despite there being between 6 and 8 other entries that perfectly implemented the idea of the contest, even in jury voting it was the ones with most functions being selected for podium.

Second example is TC20 where there were multiple smaller entries that didn't stand a chance against bigger sets being rebuilt in studless - with a specific size in mind, it is clear for newcomers what they need to build.

Edited September 12, 2023 by SaperPL

[pow]

Why not building something that walks with legs and has steering a.k.a can change direction.

And people can decide on there own if they build animals (f.e. insects) or technical robots like toilet cleaning caterpillars (to pick up the toilet thingy) or diesel punk vehicles with mechanical stuff on top, for the hard core constructors?

Edit: Oh i forgot to mention walking Star Wars Tanks(?) as an option, are they called tanks? Definitely not - but you know what i mean.

Edit2: corrected pillar to caterpillar.

Edited September 13, 2023 by pow

[msk6003]

8 hours ago, Berthil said:

I would welcome a Model Team contest, this is the 'LEGO Technic, Mindstorms, Model Team and Scale Modeling' forum. Technic we had a lot, Mindstorms has been discontinued, Model Team and Scale Modeling with a good combination of Technic and System remains.

 

On 8/27/2023 at 5:35 PM, Jim said:

[MT] Technic Model Team Contest

• Information
• Entries
• Voting
• Results

TC4 was model team contest.