Minimal Mafia: Day Two

[Dan Flavin]

The thing with Tony is all the wine that comes with it, it's just something to note when analyzing further behavior, not good enough to say one way or another on its own. Same with the tie, just something to note. I said look at Tony and Frank, not accuse them. Perhaps 'watch' would have been a better word, something was obviously lost in the wording. Anyway, going into today my number 1 suspect is Eva, not either of those two, which I thought would be obvious from how I voted her yesterday and my first statement if the day was calling her out on a slight scumtell

[Jo Baer]

John's vote is really interesting to me.

When John changed his vote from Eva to Ellsworth to "prevent his lynch" Eva had three votes and was already tied with John. All that changed with his vote was that It was Ellsworth tied with him instead of Eva. It was only later when Frank voted that Eva came back into what was now a three-way tie.

I wondered about that too, but didn't go back to count the votes, and just assumed I remembered incorrectly how many people had voted for Eva.

That is weird. Maybe he was hoping to jump onto what would hopefully be a bandwagon (Eva's at the time of his changing his vote had ground to a halt while the votes were just beginning to land on me) under the guise of trying to save himself?

That's a plausible theory. You would think he actually went back to double check the vote count since his life was on the line... He could have feared that people would start unvoting Eva, so he wanted to secure a tie with someone who was gaining momentum rather than losing it.

[John McCracken]

Unleash the McCracken! Yeah I noticed the voting thing after the day was over. It seems the ´according to my math´ I mentioned is of very low quality. It was a mistake on my end. No one ended up lynched though... I´m not sure why I thought I had to vote Ellsworth to save myself. Obviously an unknown being lynched is better than a confirmed town (from my point of view)... Ellsworth today I think makes a good point about Tony, and I don´t think what little Tony has said today answers it all that well.

I think there is a decent enough chance that Sol was killed solely (get it?) because she was a middle of the road kind of player, unlikely to be protected and possibly be a power role. There´s a good chance content of her posts or other communication has little to do with it.

And Tony. ´Can´t see her being anything else?´ Really?

[Ellsworth Kelly]

Vote: Tony Smith

I feel like Sol made some good points. Your useless attitude and failure to bring up a single suspicion over the course of two days seals the deal for me. We've been discussing your name all day. You've had plenty of opportunity to make a case for yourself...

As others have said, you don't really think I would be scum and I would kill off the most vocal opponent of mine. I'll admit some of the things I said yesterday were foolish, but I would have to be part of the worst scum team ever to do something like this. The smarter, more logical course of action that they probably took was to try and frame me, something that others have also agreed with. However, please, ask me any questions you wish.

...And this is what you came up with?

That said...

Unleash the McCracken! Yeah I noticed the voting thing after the day was over. It seems the ´according to my math´ I mentioned is of very low quality. It was a mistake on my end. No one ended up lynched though... I´m not sure why I thought I had to vote Ellsworth to save myself. Obviously an unknown being lynched is better than a confirmed town (from my point of view)... Ellsworth today I think makes a good point about Tony, and I don´t think what little Tony has said today answers it all that well.

...This is pretty much what I expected from John. I've still got my eyes...well....I've got my 2x2 yellow face block on you.

[Donald Judd]

That is weird. Maybe he was hoping to jump onto what would hopefully be a bandwagon (Eva's at the time of his changing his vote had ground to a halt while the votes were just beginning to land on me) under the guise of trying to save himself?

I don't think the momentum of two people voting would justify his switch if he were town. If he was only concerned with saving himself, he didn't need to change his vote at all. If he was concerned with either trying to save Eva as well (possibly a bus gone bad) or trying to get someone else killed (momentum gaining on Ellsworth), it seems much more scummy.

Unleash the McCracken! Yeah I noticed the voting thing after the day was over. It seems the ´according to my math´ I mentioned is of very low quality. It was a mistake on my end. No one ended up lynched though... I´m not sure why I thought I had to vote Ellsworth to save myself. Obviously an unknown being lynched is better than a confirmed town (from my point of view)... Ellsworth today I think makes a good point about Tony, and I don´t think what little Tony has said today answers it all that well.

I don't buy this at all. We aren't talking about large numbers. I'd like to believe that we can all count to 3. If you were doing any math at all, you should have arrived at the correct answer. This should have been important enough for you to devote the attention.

And now you just move on and, sensing the next greatest suspect, start right in to shifting focus to Tony. I note also that you were careful not to start the vote for him.

Vote: John McKraken

His behavior and voting pattern is more than enough for me.

[Anne Truitt]

Certainly, if we'd lynched town, we'd be worse off today. But I can't help but wonder if we missed out on lynching scum because some people intentionally tied up the vote yesterday.

I think that scrutinizing the vote yesterday may be more fruitful in catching scum than anything else today. That's where I know I'll be looking and I invite you all to do the same. More eyes on the problem, more likely the solution will be seen.

So, did you scrutinize the votes? What is your analysis? Here's mine:

1 - John opens the dance and votes for Anne (1)

2 - Eva votes for John (1)

3 - Anne votes for John (2)

4 - Robert votes for Brice (1)

5 - Ellsworth votes John (3)

6 - Dan Votes Ellsworth (1)

7 - Dan unvotes Ellsworth (0)

8 - Dan Votes for Eva (1)

9 - John re-votes Anne (wrong format) (1)

10 - Tony votes for Eva (2)

11 - Donald votes for Ellsworth (1)

12 - John unvotes Anne (0) and Votes Eva (3) - Ties vote with himself

13 - Sol Votes for Tony (1)

14 - Carl Votes Ellsworth (2)

15 - Jo votes Tony (2)

16 - John unvotes Eva (2) and Votes Ellsworth (3) - Unties vote with Eva to re-tie it with Ellsworth

17 - Frank votes Eva (3) - Ties votes at 3 for Eva, Ellsworth and John

18 - Brice votes Robert (1)

2 things strike me in this vote:

1) Here is Tony's opinion on the votes and his final justification:

I'm also going to hold of from voting. I don't see much of a reason to rush into this.

I honestly don't know who to vote for. The day really just started and people are barely talking. I don't know what to do, realistically.

I'm a bit iffy towards Dan, Anne, and Eva, and it's only a gut feeling, as the kids say.

I don't like the bandwagon against John, so I'm going to Vote: Eva Hesse because I don't like the way she's acting.

This vote is shit; you never provided ANY insight on any of the topics at hand and concluded the day, after you had 2 votes, with this gem:

Jo Baer, on 12 October 2013 - 02:29 AM, said:

You're joking right? Please tell me you don't really think our works of art have anything to do with our allegiance? Then we could all just google each other, find the artworks our color schemes are based on, and get the list of scum. Yeah, not going to help.

Sol LeWitt, on 12 October 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

Vote: Tony Smith

Jo Baer, on 12 October 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

Ok, Tony wins my vote, with 3 posts that have stood out to me (and unless I've missed something, I think that's pretty much all he's said today...)

Vote: Tony Smith

It was my idea that we were supposed to come up with ideas. I presented my idea and even though it was far-fetched, you two pounced on it immediately. It was just a thought, you don't need to be so critical about it.

What?

2) John's voting pattern is erratic and screams desperation; but then again, why re-vote to tie the game with someone else when it was clear that several players had expressed suspicions of Eva? By unvoting her you saved her from a lynch; why? You should have pushed for a lynch on Eva or Ellsworth instead of trying to further spread the votes; there was still time to turn the vote around.

Since your votes were justified as self-preservation, why did you not switch back your vote to your actual suspects when you saw that it was tied 3 way; you were no longer at risk.

- - -

Wishy-washy.

I want to look at Tony (Sol's number 1 suspect) and Frank (who tied the vote a third way). I sort of expected John to tie the vote out of self preservation, but Frank really should have pushed it one way or the other so we'd have a lynch to go off of. It's no good to be playing blind and giving the scum free kills, we need to be proactive (especially in this small a game).

Frank's vote was sort of long-coming as he had expressed concerns over Eva early in the game and it was quite obvious he was setting up to vote for her. I think it was John's role to push for a lynch but that he was stuck between pushing for a scum buddy lynch or forcing a lynch on a townie.

- - -

It's interesting that the scum would go after Sol. He wasn't that loud when going after scum. I'm not surprised he was town, I didn't see him being anything else.

So what are you saying? you knew he was town? had he claimed to you ?

[Hinckley]

vote tally

Tony Smith: 1 vote (Ellsworth Kelly)

John McCracken: 1 vote (Donald Judd)

[Eva Hesse]

The thing with Tony is all the wine that comes with it, it's just something to note when analyzing further behavior, not good enough to say one way or another on its own. Same with the tie, just something to note. I said look at Tony and Frank, not accuse them. Perhaps 'watch' would have been a better word, something was obviously lost in the wording. Anyway, going into today my number 1 suspect is Eva, not either of those two, which I thought would be obvious from how I voted her yesterday and my first statement if the day was calling her out on a slight scumtell

Ich welcome du Dan, take a good look and find out ich been town.

Unleash the McCracken! Yeah I noticed the voting thing after the day was over. It seems the ´according to my math´ I mentioned is of very low quality. It was a mistake on my end. No one ended up lynched though... I´m not sure why I thought I had to vote Ellsworth to save myself. Obviously an unknown being lynched is better than a confirmed town (from my point of view)... Ellsworth today I think makes a good point about Tony, and I don´t think what little Tony has said today answers it all that well.

Really, Ich think du sprechen Kuhscheiße(megablocks) there where 3 with 3 votes each und du unvoted mich and voted for SOMEONE totally diffrent.

Here is Annes update on the votes:

So, did you scrutinize the votes? What is your analysis? Here's mine:

1 - John opens the dance and votes for Anne (1)

2 - Eva votes for John (1)

3 - Anne votes for John (2)

4 - Robert votes for Brice (1)

5 - Ellsworth votes John (3)

6 - Dan Votes Ellsworth (1)

7 - Dan unvotes Ellsworth (0)

8 - Dan Votes for Eva (1)

9 - John re-votes Anne (wrong format) (1)

10 - Tony votes for Eva (2)

11 - Donald votes for Ellsworth (1)

12 - John unvotes Anne (0) and Votes Eva (3) - Ties vote with himself

13 - Sol Votes for Tony (1)

14 - Carl Votes Ellsworth (2)

15 - Jo votes Tony (2)

16 - John unvotes Eva (2) and Votes Ellsworth (3) - Unties vote with Eva to re-tie it with Ellsworth

17 - Frank votes Eva (3) - Ties votes at 3 for Eva, Ellsworth and John

18 - Brice votes Robert (1)

2 things strike me in this vote:

May be Ich should shut up, because ich got away from the day 1 lynch because of Johns voting but Ich will not tricked into a trap... that voting is fishy and it is probably meant to get me lynched to day but why do that ich wonder because the scum would had gotten mich lynched yesterday if John only had kept his vote on mich. So maybe he screwed up the vote but this whole thing stinks.

Ich have mich eyes on Tony und a little John because is he just a townie that screwed up and said some stupied thing in day 1 or his he a scum acting as a stupied town.

Why Ich have mich eyes on Tony, it is obvious, he did Zero no good on day 1(not that ich say that my contribution was great but) his lack of reasons on his saying and voting makes him look bad.

[Jo Baer]

Thanks for the vote breakdown Anne.

I'm trying to make sense of the whole John, Eva, Ellsworth voting, and it just doesn't add up for me that John could be scum at the same time as either of them.

Eva voted first for John, and very early in the day. I guess that could have been an attempt at them distancing themselves from each other early on, but in that case I'd say it backfired... and I don't see scum pulling that so early on day 1, when everyone is jumpy and it's common that a bandwagon starts easily from just a single badly justified vote.

Then Ellsworth votes John 3rd, which could be seen as a scum trying to get early into a bandwagon, and especially if it's for a teammate, bussing early makes one look more townie.

But then John voted for Eva to tie the votes, which would be a bit strange if they are both scum and both getting votes...

And then he suddenly decides to vote for Ellsworth instead, which again would not make sense at that time if they were both scum.

So I can only assume that John didn't switch his vote to Ellsworth to save a scum buddy in Eva. While it's likely that John is scum and was being desperate about getting out of a lynch, I think it's unlikely that Eva or Ellsworth is scum if John is scum. But if he was scum, you'd think that his teammates could help him do the math .

Lynching John might help us get some answers about all this, but I'm still more suspicious of Tony. I was suspicious of him yesterday, and he's not helping his case today... It would also put to rest the questions of if Sol was killed to silence the suspicions against him.

I'm going to Vote: Tony Smith again, for now. Tony, if you're town, please start helping out.

[Anne Truitt]

Ich welcome du Dan, take a good look and find out ich been town.

Really, Ich think du sprechen Kuhscheiße(megablocks) there where 3 with 3 votes each und du unvoted mich and voted for SOMEONE totally diffrent.

Here is Annes update on the votes:

May be Ich should shut up, because ich got away from the day 1 lynch because of Johns voting but Ich will not tricked into a trap... that voting is fishy and it is probably meant to get me lynched to day but why do that ich wonder because the scum would had gotten mich lynched yesterday if John only had kept his vote on mich. So maybe he screwed up the vote but this whole thing stinks.

Ich have mich eyes on Tony und a little John because is he just a townie that screwed up and said some stupied thing in day 1 or his he a scum acting as a stupied town.

Why Ich have mich eyes on Tony, it is obvious, he did Zero no good on day 1(not that ich say that my contribution was great but) his lack of reasons on his saying and voting makes him look bad.

I'm not sure I follow you; John's unvoting,and consequent saving, of you is a trap to get us to lynch you. I don't understand what you meant to say here; can you explain how you perceive the vote? What do you mean by "So maybe he screwed up the vote but this whole thing stinks."

Thanks for the vote breakdown Anne.

I'm trying to make sense of the whole John, Eva, Ellsworth voting, and it just doesn't add up for me that John could be scum at the same time as either of them.

Eva voted first for John, and very early in the day. I guess that could have been an attempt at them distancing themselves from each other early on, but in that case I'd say it backfired... and I don't see scum pulling that so early on day 1, when everyone is jumpy and it's common that a bandwagon starts easily from just a single badly justified vote.

Then Ellsworth votes John 3rd, which could be seen as a scum trying to get early into a bandwagon, and especially if it's for a teammate, bussing early makes one look more townie.

But then John voted for Eva to tie the votes, which would be a bit strange if they are both scum and both getting votes...

And then he suddenly decides to vote for Ellsworth instead, which again would not make sense at that time if they were both scum.

So I can only assume that John didn't switch his vote to Ellsworth to save a scum buddy in Eva. While it's likely that John is scum and was being desperate about getting out of a lynch, I think it's unlikely that Eva or Ellsworth is scum if John is scum. But if he was scum, you'd think that his teammates could help him do the math .

Lynching John might help us get some answers about all this, but I'm still more suspicious of Tony. I was suspicious of him yesterday, and he's not helping his case today... It would also put to rest the questions of if Sol was killed to silence the suspicions against him.

I'm going to Vote: Tony Smith again, for now. Tony, if you're town, please start helping out.

I can agree with this assessment but I stil feel uneasy about the vote, it is too convenient that it finished in a 3 way tie; there has to be a reason for John to change his vote as he did but I cannot quite put my finger on it.

Another thing that's starting to bother me is how after 2 votes, the voting on Tony stopped; let's face it, he was a better 'candidate' than Ellsworth for a vote; so why did John not choose him to tie the vote?

I am thorn between casting my vote for John or voting for Tony; in my eyes both are valid and substanciated lynches.

[Eva Hesse]

I'm not sure I follow you; John's unvoting,and consequent saving, of you is a trap to get us to lynch you. I don't understand what you meant to say here; can you explain how you perceive the vote? What do you mean by "So maybe he screwed up the vote but this whole thing stinks."

What ich meant was, Ich don´t understand why he did it and ich think it stinks as an setup to get someone lynched but it can´t be me because if the plan was to get me lynched the scum would had got me lynched on day 1 with four votes.

The voting on day 1 don´t make much sense!

Sorry for explaining badly

Ich also will be going with Tony or John today

[Anne Truitt]

What ich meant was, Ich don´t understand why he did it and ich think it stinks as an setup to get someone lynched but it can´t be me because if the plan was to get me lynched the scum would had got me lynched on day 1 with four votes.

The voting on day 1 don´t make much sense!

Sorry for explaining badly

Ich also will be going with Tony or John today

I agree that it could have been easy for scum to vote you out yesterday; this brings the question of why did they not? I'm going to guess that none of them wanted to be the swing vote and suffer the scrutiny of town today.

This argument is also valid for Ellsworth and John; why did the scum not grasp the opportunity presented to lynch a townie? It would have been relatively easy to justify the vote today as all 3 individuals were under a fair amount of scrutiny.

This means we either have a disorganized scum team or we have a scum team that is too small to justify exposing themselves by casting the swing vote and were already under scrutiny. I think the latter is most likely.

I'm holding off from voting for now but will reiterate that John and Tony are my main suspects in the hopes that one of them, or both, will say something that will blow my mind and make me change my mind. GO!

[Dan Flavin]

Thank you for the vote breakdown, Anne. :) A lot of your points against John are interesting. There seem to be 2 main lynch candidates today, John and Tony. Both have pinged me in the past, and another no-lynch is just the town shooting itself in the foot, so I will Vote: John McCracken because a) his erratic voting and bad math (which might be attributed to either panicking or scuminess) and b) his allegiance will shed light on the motives of the early triple-vote on him yesterday.

[Donald Judd]

So, did you scrutinize the votes? What is your analysis?

That was the result of my scrutiny. I think John is scum. I appreciate your own conclusion and I thank you for taking the time to provide it.

I don't know exactly what John was doing with his voting but it doesn't seem like the actions of a townie.

[Tony Smith]

So what are you saying? you knew he was town? had he claimed to you ?

I'm not sure I understand what you're going at here. I said I wasn't surprised that he was town, how does that relate to the possibility of him claiming to me? Why would he have claimed to me anyway? I thought he was town yesterday based on his actions and I'm now saying that I wasn't surprised he was town.

Had he been scum, I would have said "I was rather surprised he was scum", the opposite of what I did say, because I thought he was town. Have I made my reasoning abundantly clear yet? The voting is between me and John today, and I don't want to be the stereotypical "it can't be me!" guy that goes ahead and then votes for the other person on the chopping block, so I will once again hold off on voting for now. I said yesterday that I suspected Dan, Anne, and Eva. I'd like to remove Anne from that list.

I haven't decided who I'd like to replace Anne with, it's either John or Frank.

[Carl Andre]

I don't like John today. He was more here yesterday; today he's only showed up for this gem:

Unleash the McCracken! Yeah I noticed the voting thing after the day was over. It seems the ´according to my math´ I mentioned is of very low quality. It was a mistake on my end. No one ended up lynched though... I´m not sure why I thought I had to vote Ellsworth to save myself. Obviously an unknown being lynched is better than a confirmed town (from my point of view)... Ellsworth today I think makes a good point about Tony, and I don´t think what little Tony has said today answers it all that well.

Not really sure why you needed to vote Ellsworth to save yourself?? If you're truly town and you know your lynch would result in one less town in the minimal... wherever the hell we are, you should be putting in the effort to save yourself. That means actually counting the votes.

You're definitely right about an unknown's death being better than yours - especially someone scummy like Ell (although he seems to have cleaned up his act today... I won't be voting for him), but you didn't seem too convinced of his guilt... That's not the best sign.

And while I'm definitely not a fan of Tony, why are you suddenly bringing him up? It seems like you're deflecting, albeit to someone majorly scummy.

I didn't vote for you simply because i saw no benefit for a scum to vote first... but did I give you too much benefit of the doubt?? I don't like Tony these days either, plus the death of Sol looks pretty bad for him, but John's acting rather scummy as well.

John, why shouldn't I vote for you? Was I correct in my assessments yesterday? Are you town with good intentions?

[Ellsworth Kelly]

I said yesterday that I suspected Dan, Anne, and Eva. I'd like to remove Anne from that list.

I haven't decided who I'd like to replace Anne with, it's either John or Frank.

You say replace like you don't place any value in your own suspicions, like they're interchangeable with the suspects everyone else is talking about.

My vote stands.

[Hinckley]

vote tally

Tony Smith: 2 votes (Ellsworth Kelly, Jo Baer)

John McCracken: 2 votes (Donald Judd, Dan Flavin)

Interlude

"I think for my next painting, I will create a 6 foot square canvas, painted completely white with a subtle arc of pink in the top left-hand corner. What will you be painting?"

"Oh, I don't paint. I use commercially available neon as my only medium."

"Fruitcake..."

24 hours remain in Day Two.

[John McCracken]

And while I'm definitely not a fan of Tony, why are you suddenly bringing him up? It seems like you're deflecting, albeit to someone majorly scummy.

I didn't vote for you simply because i saw no benefit for a scum to vote first... but did I give you too much benefit of the doubt?? I don't like Tony these days either, plus the death of Sol looks pretty bad for him, but John's acting rather scummy as well.

John, why shouldn't I vote for you? Was I correct in my assessments yesterday? Are you town with good intentions?

I brought him up because good points were made, should I just stay in defensive mode all day for doing nothing wrong? Sure, I am dumb and made a silly mistake. Not that that silly mistake has resulted in anything, there were people after me that could have turned the tide for a vote. Saying the fact that there was no lynch was my fault is incredibly silly.

You shouldn't vote for me because I haven't done anything scummy. Only something dumb, for which I am sorry...? I am just a sculptor whose intentions are good. Please don't let me be misunderstood.

Thank you for the vote breakdown, Anne. :) A lot of your points against John are interesting. There seem to be 2 main lynch candidates today, John and Tony. Both have pinged me in the past, and another no-lynch is just the town shooting itself in the foot, so I will Vote: John McCracken because a) his erratic voting and bad math (which might be attributed to either panicking or scuminess) and b) his allegiance will shed light on the motives of the early triple-vote on him yesterday.

That's interesting because just a few posts above this you said Eva was your one true suspect.

I am going to vote for Tony. (No, not because I'd be saving myself, not that lynching a good townie would be the way to go). But rather because of the fact that I feel Ellsworth has made some good points against him, and Tony continues failing to adress them in a sufficient way. Vote: Tony Smith

[Robert Mangold]

Sorry I've been away, I'm back now. You noticed I was gone, right?

I don't think John would be scum. His voting was irregular, but I think if he had a scum team they would have told him to sit on his vote with Eva.

Tony I feel 50/50 with. The points Anne made were fair, and he was Sol's choice. Day one, there was no real reason to vote except that we had to. Today, we have a better idea of who to vote for.

Vote: Tony Smith

[Tony Smith]

You say replace like you don't place any value in your own suspicions, like they're interchangeable with the suspects everyone else is talking about.

My vote stands.

Perhaps you misunderstood my phrasing. I place great value in my suspicions, however I believe there are only three scum. When I said "replace", I meant remove Anne from the list and replace her with a different person that has been pinging me.

I'm not surprised that John has voted for me. I shall continue to wait before casting my vote as I'd like to think more.

[Jo Baer]

I'm not surprised that John has voted for me. I shall continue to wait before casting my vote as I'd like to think more.

How about sharing your thoughts with us? You're not helping by just keeping it to yourself.

[Brice Marden]

I have to go make a large, 3 color painting today. Even though it looks like something you could do in 15 minutes with a roller, I'll use a small brush and hand-mixed paints and so it'll take hours. So for his weird voting yesterday, I'm going to

Vote: John McCracken

just in case i don't get done before the end of the day.

[Anne Truitt]

I'm not sure I understand what you're going at here. I said I wasn't surprised that he was town, how does that relate to the possibility of him claiming to me? Why would he have claimed to me anyway? I thought he was town yesterday based on his actions and I'm now saying that I wasn't surprised he was town.

Had he been scum, I would have said "I was rather surprised he was scum", the opposite of what I did say, because I thought he was town. Have I made my reasoning abundantly clear yet? The voting is between me and John today, and I don't want to be the stereotypical "it can't be me!" guy that goes ahead and then votes for the other person on the chopping block, so I will once again hold off on voting for now. I said yesterday that I suspected Dan, Anne, and Eva. I'd like to remove Anne from that list.

I haven't decided who I'd like to replace Anne with, it's either John or Frank.

Why? Why remove me? This makes you look even more scummy; I am scrutinizing you and you turn around and say I am no longer a suspect of yours without any justification.

if you thought this would alleviate the presure, you were wrong; Vote: Tony Smith

[Robert Mangold]

I have to go make a large, 3 color painting today. Even though it looks like something you could do in 15 minutes with a roller, I'll use a small brush and hand-mixed paints and so it'll take hours. So for his weird voting yesterday, I'm going to

Vote: John McCracken

just in case i don't get done before the end of the day.

Not trying to pick on you two days in a row, but can you make some time to explain your thinking? I know you're busy painting and all...