FlyerNut Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 I have one and love it, just wondering if anyone has heard how sales have been so far... Quote
BCanilho Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 I bougth two... First time ever i bougth the same set twice. It just doesn't look complete unless you buy at least 2... My guess is huge sucess! Quote
SavaTheAggie Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 In Europe I'm sure it sells well. Here in the states I don't know. Ive heard some anecdotes about how it just isn't selling, the main gripe is the lack of other train sets in the store (just HE and the Lone Ranger here), and that some customers won't buy it because of the lack of track and motor. I think if LEGO sold track in my stores again, and sold the motor elements necessary to run it in store, it'd be doing better. --Tony Quote
LucasLaughing Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 The reason I haven't picked up the Horizon Express is because I can't afford $260 to buy a pair of them, and just one set would look weird/incomplete to me. I really liked the Maersk and Emerald Night, even though they were short, because they didn't look like they were missing the back half of the train. Quote
dr_spock Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 I bougth two... First time ever i bougth the same set twice. It just doesn't look complete unless you buy at least 2... My guess is huge sucess! I bought two of them too but not at the same time. I always liked the TGV trains ever since they first entered service in the 1980s. Quote
KringlesBricks Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 I bought 2....well, I bought one...and used my VIP points to get the second one almost free...then used more VIP points to motorize the train. So, all-in-all.. I spent $180 all together on the package deal. LOVE VIP points I mainly got the set to compliment my train station and other passenger train - I think it's a good build, nice looking train, and worth getting - especially 2 of them for sure Quote
LegoSjaak Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 I think it was/is succesfull....see lots of layouts with the HE running around.. I recently added 2 passengercars to my 2 sets.... Both engines have a motor with separate batterybox and receiver! Greetz, LegoSjaak Quote
BricksMcgee Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 I have one and love it, just wondering if anyone has heard how sales have been so far... As per BCanilho, this is one of the few sets I've bought multiple times: I have 4 copies of it. Can imagine it being popular in Europe but maybe not so popular in the States though Quote
Redhead1982 Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 I have one for the moment, and I'm planing of buying another one (or just the front car) to have a ''complete'' train. And my collegues from LUG (train fans) have them (one or two copies). The issue of ''missing'' track and motorisation is a problem for those who don't own previous train sets with tracks. As for me, the sets I buy in multiple copies, I usually buy them at different time points (either to use VIPs or just to save some extra money), which is friendlier for the budget. On a side note, I'm not a huge train fan, I own only 2 sets of red passenger train, one HE and one MOCed train. So, I'd say HE is selling as also not huge train fans are buying it. Quote
Werlu Ulcur Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 If it wasn't "electric" I certainly would have bought one. Quote
domboy Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 If money were no object I'd buy it (well two), as my Dad is French and I LOVE the orange and black color scheme. As a train fan, modern electric passenger are probably near the bottom of my list of what I find interesting though, and the fact that I'd have to buy two to make it complete is a bit of a financial challenge at the moment. Still I hope it sells very well so there will be future train sets like it. I too would be interested to know if it has sold well or not... Quote
Heppeng Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 Well the lego shop lists it as 'hard to find' whatever that means... Quote
Brickthus Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 Bought 2, tested them with 1 motor - not enough power. Tried adding another motor to the 2nd carriage - OK but torque can decouple the train because the couplings are weak. They often need re-engaging to ensure the coupling strength is sufficient. If a motor and battery box were added to the other end, with 2 IR receivers on the same channel then only one loco getting the IR signal is a problem - derailment or detachment. This is especially problematic when there are tunnels on the layout. This is a terminal issue for PF Trains. It is also very expensive to buy an extra LiPo battery for the other end of the train - another motor and IR Receiver is plenty to spend! Therefore PF Trains have issues that are unresolved. I would say it is not just the Horizon Express that has limited success but the whole of PF trains. They are not as popular as 9V trains were. Those who have 9V tend to stick to it until PF proves to be as good. I have 9V and will experiment with PF in the yard but I don't consider it to be as good for exhibition main line running. I have two shunting engines, a Class 08 and Class 14, which works with a PF brake van. At least the PF train motor is good. It is slightly better for torque than the 9V motor. It means a PF diesel loco with 2 motors at the front, using either 9V couplings or liftarms, would work reasonably well. A multiple unit train of more than 6 6-wide carriages or 4 wider (heavy) carriages does not work as a concept with PF. The Emerald Night train raised another issue - if a steam train is powered through the driving wheels then it is difficult to match the loco speed with a train motor under a carriage over a reasonable range. This limits the length of train that can be pulled by a steam engine unless more motors power more driving wheels. In some ways it keeps us honest - an 0-6-0 like Thomas cannot pull more than a few coaches. However, this applies equally to a Hogwarts Express where a bigger engine pulls 4-5 coaches. My 9V one has 2 train motors in the tender and 2 in the first carriage. This would take 2 battery boxes to do with PF as it needs 1300mA on a hill and the battery is limited by an 800mA current trip. This pic shows the layout of PF items in the carriage from my tests: http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=4509752 Limited battery life is an issue requiring "Hand of God" charging and hence a removable roof section - no good if the train is stored in a tunnel! I have suggested inductive charging of the LiPo battery as a way forward - please support it on LEGO Cuusoo: http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/40403 As PF trains go, Horizon Express is a good one. Clearly aimed at the AFOL market, with useful parts and good building techniques. I think the generic PF train problems mean TLG will find it difficult to measure the relative success of each train because they would need to re-baseline the sales figures more to the AFOL market. LEGO trains are not seen as much in the shops as they were in the 12V or 9V eras. Mark Quote
Front Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 ....... Therefore PF Trains have issues that are unresolved. I would say it is not just the Horizon Express that has limited success but the whole of PF trains. They are not as popular as 9V trains were. Those who have 9V tend to stick to it until PF proves to be as good. I have 9V and will experiment with PF in the yard but I don't consider it to be as good for exhibition main line running. ..................... Mark Mark, you are seeing it all from an AFOL perspective, with the high expectations that the trains can run in exhibitions, under tunnels with no need for an operator to be present. The biggest percentage of consumers want a train that can be run after they've laid down the tracks for the weekend. They probably find it all works well, and may buy another train when a new train set is released. I have not followed the LEGO product range for many years (only 6), but to me it seems like the amount of train products that has been released is high. No company releases a lot of products of some range that is not succesful. Without any knowledge about sales number, I'm pretty convinced that LEGO train business is way bigger than it ever was in the past. But again, this goes for all the product ranges LEGO produces at the moment. Sales have been roughly 20 % up for at least 5 consecutive years. Erland Part Design Quote
legoman666 Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 Bought 2, tested them with 1 motor - not enough power. Tried adding another motor to the 2nd carriage - OK but torque can decouple the train because the couplings are weak. They often need re-engaging to ensure the coupling strength is sufficient. If a motor and battery box were added to the other end, with 2 IR receivers on the same channel then only one loco getting the IR signal is a problem - derailment or detachment. This is especially problematic when there are tunnels on the layout. This is a terminal issue for PF Trains. It is also very expensive to buy an extra LiPo battery for the other end of the train - another motor and IR Receiver is plenty to spend! Therefore PF Trains have issues that are unresolved. I managed to fit the battery box, 2 PF train motors and a polarity switch all in the lead locomotive on my HE. No issues with derailing. Decoupling was an issue until I put a 1 x 2 tile on the magnets. I myself have 3 copies of the set, two of which I bought immediately upon release, and a third I picked up from Craigslist for almost nothing. So my Horizon Express has 6 carriages and 2 locos and then I have an extra loco lying around in my train yard. Awesome set, easily on par with the Emerald Knight for detail/build quality. I wish they released more creator train sets. Quote
Front Posted October 17, 2013 Posted October 17, 2013 btw. I have one set, haven't built it yet Quote
peterab Posted October 18, 2013 Posted October 18, 2013 I'm pretty sure the HE is selling well here. I tried to get one to Australia soon after release so we could run it on our club layout at Brickvention in January. As it happened I was not the only one in the club to have this thought. We ended up with about eight sets, and no-one in the club is particularly interested in the TGV (I'm probably closest since I've built a German TEE). Quote
ritzcrackerman Posted October 18, 2013 Posted October 18, 2013 In Europe I'm sure it sells well. Here in the states I don't know. Ive heard some anecdotes about how it just isn't selling, the main gripe is the lack of other train sets in the store (just HE and the Lone Ranger here), and that some customers won't buy it because of the lack of track and motor. I think if LEGO sold track in my stores again, and sold the motor elements necessary to run it in store, it'd be doing better. --Tony I've heard this in my LEGO store on a couple of occasions. Customer picks up the box, asks the store associate what it takes to run the train, and the store associate replies: "Battery box (2 different choices), AC adapter if you select the LiPo motor, motor, PF cable, lights, and bare minimum a couple of boxes of track." None of those items are sold at my local LEGO store. Is it any wonder if gets put back on the shelf? Yeah, I know the LEGO store offers free shipping on items ordered online, but the purpose of the LEGO store is to give people a reason to go to a brick-and-mortar storefront and enjoy the experience. It is kind of a bummer to buy the train, then wait a couple more days for all the motorization parts to arrive. I hope it sells! I for one love the AFOL-oriented trains we have been getting the last few years... Quote
thiot Posted October 18, 2013 Posted October 18, 2013 I hope it sells! I for one love the AFOL-oriented trains we have been getting the last few years... I agree about the AFOL-oreinted trains. The same issues that faced the EN and Maersk are what the HE is up against. I think that the target market for this train will buy it no matter if they are European, Australian, American, or really located anywhere. Because we love great models of trains, no matter where the train the design is based on originates. Quote
zephyr1934 Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 Bought 2, tested them with 1 motor - not enough power. Tried adding another motor to the 2nd carriage - OK but torque can decouple the train because the couplings are weak. They often need re-engaging to ensure the coupling strength is sufficient. ... Therefore PF Trains have issues that are unresolved. I would say it is not just the Horizon Express that has limited success but the whole of PF trains. They are not as popular as 9V trains were. Those who have 9V tend to stick to it until PF proves to be as good. I have 9V and will experiment with PF in the yard but I don't consider it to be as good for exhibition main line running. ... Hey Mark, I would agree with the other responder that you need to get the two train motors under the same loco or car to make the HE work. Then you should be able to pull a pretty long train. Although you should also put your post in context, you tend to build epically massive (and really great) train models. That said, I too prefer 9v but that is because I already had a good collection before it was discontinued. If I started again today with nothing, I'd probably just go 100% PF. Now as for PF failures, I have yet to find something that cannot be worked around. The stock EN has horrible mechanics, e.g., binding pistons, the fact that the drivers can be lifted off the rails on uneven surfaces, etc. All can be fixed, but this just reflects the modern day shortened lego design cycle. I think the HE has its own design problems, e.g., split in two sets, should have come with 8 segments of straight track... but that just increases sales... and maybe that's okay, to be happy with a lego train you have to be willing to shell out the $$$ to buy the accessories. Higher profit margin keeps the lower selling sets in the lineup. Enough people will buy modular buildings to make 3x/yr profitable, likewise, enough folks buy AFOL trains to make 1x/2yr profitable. I suspect the HE is successful since lego has nixed almost all discounts on it, even on amazon. Meanwhile, the newer lone ranger train is 20% (sure, themed set tied to a flop... maybe not a great comparison... but it shows how lego approaches the train sets for kids differently). As for subject matter, I think they really struck gold with the HE. The hard part will be finding the topic for the next train set. With the move to creator expert theme, if they were true to the "creator" half of it, it would be great to come up with a set that could be built to be either a generic N. American or European style freight (i.e., one set, two models). In defense of PF, I am able to pull much heavier trains with two PF train motors than I am with two 9v motors, e.g., this... Front loco has two PF train motors, then 8 unpowered cars, most 52 studs long. The problems this train has is overheating the IR receiver (still needs to be replaced by v2) and moving too slow in curves because of the long wheelbase cars (that would happen with 9v too, and this train would probably need 4x 9v motors). The XL motors are a dream, I've pulled over 50 cars with just a pair of XL motors on one receiver using this engine. Quote
ronenson Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 At LegoWorld in Utrecht, Netherland, I saw a lot of set-ups all running the HE. At least amongst AFOLs, I would say it's a hit, but it cannot be compared to sets like the 7938 or 7939 that are available in toystores to pick up as december gifts. I've got 2 sets as well, by the way, and I love it. Quote
Brickthus Posted October 20, 2013 Posted October 20, 2013 Mark, you are seeing it all from an AFOL perspective, with the high expectations that the trains can run in exhibitions, under tunnels with no need for an operator to be present. The biggest percentage of consumers want a train that can be run after they've laid down the tracks for the weekend. They probably find it all works well, and may buy another train when a new train set is released. I have not followed the LEGO product range for many years (only 6), but to me it seems like the amount of train products that has been released is high. No company releases a lot of products of some range that is not succesful. Without any knowledge about sales number, I'm pretty convinced that LEGO train business is way bigger than it ever was in the past. But again, this goes for all the product ranges LEGO produces at the moment. Sales have been roughly 20 % up for at least 5 consecutive years. Erland Part Design Whilst it is true that the AFOL perspective is greatest for me, I have LEGO trains experience from the age of 5, since 1978 through childhood, teenage years and student years without a dark age. From a child's point of view, LEGO trains are not as widely available as they used to be. You need the internet or a visit to a LEGO shop to find them. I note the comments by one parent or grandparent on the Shop At Home website, saying that it was a discouragement to have to buy all the PF accessories separately for the HE train. For that market it is desirable to have the train work "out of the box". I compare that with my first experience. I had set 171 at age 5, with set 107 motor added, so the motor was separate again. I didn't have the battery tender so I had to sacrifice a truck in order to carry the battery box. In that sense the user experience is similar for HE and 171 but the functionality has grown. I think the composite HE + PF set for £174 is better because you can buy all the parts as one starter kit. The other point that applies to all markets is that this particular train needs 2 sets to get the other end. This makes the 6-car train heavy and we get the to the point of needing 2 motors and going beyond the instructions. How old does a fan have to be to be able to fit the 2nd motor to the front loco of the train and add 1x2 tiles to the couplings to stop them pulling apart? Some 8-year-olds would be smart enough, but not all. During my years as a TFOL I pored over the 12V railway catalogue pages. At this stage I could not afford any train sets, just a couple of wagons and adding conductor rails to my blue rail track. With today's products it is good that the track is cheaper - this is a major advantage of PF over 9V or 12V. Then it comes down to product range - LEGO trains do not have additional wagons in the current range. I used to buy as many as I could when I started buying 9V, because the wagons were compatible with both 9V and 12V. 6 of the dual-sphere Octan tankers made a good train. LEGO train sets these days have a loco and 2 wagons or coaches. Without extra wagons the trains are a bit short. Success depends on rebuildability. The HE train front end is heaps better than the RC train but still the orange slope parts have few other uses. Compare this with the 7745 roof tile approach. Of course I have high expectations as an AFOL. Exhibiting trains puts them into the public imagination, which is a great asset to TLG, given that the trains get little coverage otherwise and are not in most high street shops. I have even higher expectations because I am a professional engineer and have also helped develop and test PF parts. This meant I was able to influence the design of the light brick and ensure the train motor torque was sufficient to make it a successor to the 9V motor, not weak like the RC motor. This means I really want PF trains to work well as a system and be reliable and successful in their engineering. Sadly I was not involved with the more recent parts or I might have detected the servo problems! The number of sets in the trains range has indicated the success of LEGO trains over the years. These days TLG is tentative about train sets. Granted there are more than there were a few years ago but compare it with 12V in the 1980s - multiple train sets, loco, wagons, track and extra electric functional sets like the level crossing 7866 and decoupler 7862. In the 1990s we had a passenger set, a goods set, a loco and a few wagons as well as the track sets - still quite successful. I long that we should reach the levels of the 1980s again! I think an extra wagon set would sell well. AFOLs would buy rakes of them if they had a good parts selection and the right functionality and aesthetics. I bought quite a few of the caboose, log wagon and tanker a few years ago, 10, 10 and 6 respectively I think. A particular one for you Erland is to bring back the train window glass to complete the range of part numbers 4034, 4035 and 4036. That would be my biggest request for the success of the trains theme - a key part for the theme was lost a few years ago when there was a cull of part numbers (11000 part/colour combinations down to 4000 was it?). The plain glass in the HE just doesn't cut it. Hey Mark, ... I suspect the HE is successful since lego has nixed almost all discounts on it, even on amazon. Meanwhile, the newer lone ranger train is 20% (sure, themed set tied to a flop... maybe not a great comparison... but it shows how lego approaches the train sets for kids differently). As for subject matter, I think they really struck gold with the HE. The hard part will be finding the topic for the next train set. With the move to creator expert theme, if they were true to the "creator" half of it, it would be great to come up with a set that could be built to be either a generic N. American or European style freight (i.e., one set, two models). In defense of PF, I am able to pull much heavier trains with two PF train motors than I am with two 9v motors, e.g., this... Front loco has two PF train motors, then 8 unpowered cars, most 52 studs long. The problems this train has is overheating the IR receiver (still needs to be replaced by v2) and moving too slow in curves because of the long wheelbase cars (that would happen with 9v too, and this train would probably need 4x 9v motors). The XL motors are a dream, I've pulled over 50 cars with just a pair of XL motors on one receiver using this engine. On the Shop At Home website the HE has the Exclusive tag. If it is an Exclusive set then it means no discounts even for staff. I like that the lone ranger train has the driving wheels - it means they are still available till we get another steam train int he trains theme. I would welcome a train with some changeability, but the real trains of different continents should be studied properly to ensure that such a set truly addresses the key features of both - the likeness has to be good for all customers, like having an "A" side and and "AA" side on a music chart single. I like that the PF train motor is able to pull heavier trains per motor (and I was glad to press the point with TLG during its development) but you have revealed the problem - the overheating IR Receiver indicates that you should use one v1 receiver per train motor. A v2 receiver can power 2 train motors, just as it powers 2 L-motors in the Crawler. Too slow means you have either too few motors, too few IR Receivers or low batteries. The system is modular so that we can build in enough of each element. The problem for AFOL trains is getting all the elements to work together when we need to power several motors. We need a slave motor driver so that a single IR Receiver can control several motors. The driver would have the same motor driver chip as the v2 receiver, take a motor drive signal as its C1/C2 input and replicate it on the output with fresh power from the 9V and 0V lines. Mark Quote
paul_delahaye Posted October 20, 2013 Posted October 20, 2013 I have 2 copies, as everyone says, it's a clever ploy by Lego as nearly all AFOL collectors were always going to want a complete looking train Quote
dr_spock Posted October 20, 2013 Posted October 20, 2013 I have 2 copies, as everyone says, it's a clever ploy by Lego as nearly all AFOL collectors were always going to want a complete looking train You could get away with one if you remodel it like the TGV La Poste. I think the postal train could run with one engine in half-set configuration. Quote
escortmad79 Posted October 20, 2013 Posted October 20, 2013 I'm still waiting to get 2 of these Quote
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