Latest Cuusoo decision

[ShaydDeGrai]

First of all, congrats to Peter Reid, to quote the old film Von Ryan's Express: "If one gets out, it's a miracle"

The skeptic in me, though, really questions the timing, the batching and the ultimate selection. As Faefrost and others have pointed out, there were plenty of reason why the various projects might have died in review, but, truth be told, there were probably plenty of reasons to reject the exo-suit as well. Now I actually like the exo-suit - I'm pretty sure I voted for it - but the lovely little model that Peter Reid created won't be the same model CuuSoo actually ships.

I think it is safe to say that TLG will rebuild the concept embodied by Peter's model to use parts currently in production, stronger ("Lego-legal") connections, parts on scale with a certain age-range recommendations, and a part count to keep its price in line with whatever the average supporter claimed thet they were willing to pay. By the time the redesign is done, will this model be significantly different from the old Exo-Force Mechs or any of the several mech/robot creations previously offered in the Creator line? (I'd like to think so, but CuuSoo's track record has yet to impress me)

The skeptic in me thinks that TLG has been sitting on rejection results for months waiting for a "close enough" proposal just to avoid making a video where they announce that they are rejecting everything. I mean no disrespect to Peter's fine work, but I can't help but think that his proposal caught a break because TLG's public relations might have been pressuring them to accept _something_ before AFOLs lost what little faith they had left in CuuSoo. They've rejected so many proposals at this point, I think they _needed_ an idea they could produce cheaply (even if similar things had been done before) just to distract the audience while they sweep another 70,000 support votes under the nearest rug.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

I would have bought a mini-Lego shop. I liked *all* the shops, but I can understand the licensing/marketing problem. Still, the mini Lego shop could have been an in-store/Shop @ home exclusive and probably would have done well.

[Faefrost]

Hi

maybe it is just me but was not Legos intention with Cuusoo was to get "new ideas for never seen sets and themes"? This mech (any mech) is in my eyes just a Bionicle or Hero Factory "fig" with a minifig in it. Yes this is highly detailed but we have seen better or more detailed mechs as MOCs in the past. Second note: If it should be a playable mech it will be even more like a Bionicle. Sure high grebeled models are not "swooshable".

Dino

CuuSoo has always been new ideas for single issue sets. They have specifically said, repeatedly, that it is not meant to suggest whole themes. If a single project does well it may naturally evolve into something bordering on a theme, ie Minecraft. But projects will not be evaluated or planned as themes. And proposing a theme will cause issues in review. The mini shops probably failed because it was proposed and voted on as a more broad theme. A series of shops, rather than one refined set. If they had simply proposed a nice Starbucks set, with a single license to deal with, and no drastically reduced expectations, it might have passed review. The Female Minifig project might bump into this as well.

[spzero]

gotta say I agree with jonwil and am happy this set got thru its great, hope they don't make too many changes

[Meatman]

gotta say I agree with jonwil and am happy this set got thru its great, hope they don't make too many changes

I am sure the Lego Group will keep the basic highlights of it, but there are many illegal connections and build methods being used that will most certainly need to be altered.

[GregoryBrick]

I am sure the Lego Group will keep the basic highlights of it, but there are many illegal connections and build methods being used that will most certainly need to be altered.

Yes, and I think any semi-knowledgeable AFOL who voted for this could be expected to know that.

Is it frustrating for the CUUSOO team? When something doesn't pass review, there's a chorus of "that's lazy, they could have just changed a few things", and when something does pass review, there's a chorus of "they better not change anything".

They've rejected so many proposals at this point, I think they _needed_ an idea they could produce cheaply (even if similar things had been done before) just to distract the audience while they sweep another 70,000 support votes under the nearest rug.

I find this interpretation fairly extravagant - the only reason for accepting this idea was to distract the CUUSOO audience, and this distraction was somehow necessary? It would be far easier to put a 'closed' sign on the CUUSOO project and thank people for participating in the experiment. I do not want to be pointed, but when you interpret LEGO CUUSOO actions in this way, I don't think it is realistic to expect them to satisfy you, given the constraints they work under.

[jonwil]

I think the attributes they need to keep are:

1.The color scheme (adding bright colors instead of keeping it all grey/silver would be bad IMO)

2.The use of lots of really small cool parts for detail and greebling

3.The fact that it isn't using as many of the really big ball joints and ratchet hinges to provide articulation as TLG sets tend to do but instead uses smaller thinner parts for articulation (might be the perfect opportunity to use the new tiny ball joint parts appearing in the 2014 Mixels line)

4.The fact that it has an operator/driver sitting in it (otherwise its not a mech/suit anymore but a bot instead)

and 5.The overall basic size and proportions (e.g. leg length, torso length, width, arm length etc)

Using the same classic space guy as in the submission wouldn't be hard, all the parts needed (white helmet, clear visor, yellow head, white torso/arms/hands, white hips/legs) are in current sets and we know from BTTF and Minecraft that Cuusoo sets are allowed to green-light printed elements meaning that printing the classic space logo on the torso would be possible. And the classic smiley head is still in production for the modulars so they could even use that instead of a more modern head (to complete the look)

The white airtanks are not in production but airtanks are not necessary for this model (and even if they were, Minecraft and BTTF have shown that in some cases they can get not-currently-in-production colors of existing parts made too)

[PMJ]

Also I made a Cuusoo account specifically for Portal and Space Troopers. If ideas like that get rejected so easily, I'm not sure If I feel very encouraged to vote on a Cuusoo project again.

[GregoryBrick]

Also I made a Cuusoo account specifically for Portal and Space Troopers. If ideas like that get rejected so easily, I'm not sure If I feel very encouraged to vote on a Cuusoo project again.

How do you know those ideas were rejected easily? How would an idea which got rejected with difficulty appear any different?

[AndyC]

I don't think you can really say the Portal sets were rejected "easily", it clearly got far enough to be extended beyond it's original review period. And that's despite the fact it was both a "theme" project and had such heavy reliance upon new parts. Ultimately I suspect it just wasn't possible to do without bringing in new parts, or at least not to a level that seemed compatible with the original proposal. I don't think Portal fans should be despondent, it just needs someone to come up with a one-off proposal with a design that can be realised with existing pieces. I'm not convinced that isn't possible.

[Meatman]

Also I made a Cuusoo account specifically for Portal and Space Troopers. If ideas like that get rejected so easily, I'm not sure If I feel very encouraged to vote on a Cuusoo project again.

The Space Troopers was a bad idea from the start. It was well proposed and looked great, but I think most people knew that project was going nowhere because it was too similar to an existing theme.

[ShaydDeGrai]

I find this interpretation fairly extravagant - the only reason for accepting this idea was to distract the CUUSOO audience, and this distraction was somehow necessary?

I never said it was the only reason (as I said I like the project and I'm happy it's getting a shot) but I do think that after nearly a year of AFOLs bashing CuuSoo at LUGs and across the internet as a marketing gimmick to spread the Lego brand to a non-Lego audience rather than an honest attempt at crowd-sourcing, they were under pressure to have _something_ pass review before they could go public with a fistful of rejection slips that would just disappoint (and perhaps anger) the core AFOL audience.

It would be far easier to put a 'closed' sign on the CUUSOO project and thank people for participating in the experiment.

Why would TLG do that? For them, CuuSoo is working. We're volunteering content for the website. Pre-10k CuuSoo projects are getting tweets and Facebook exposure, internet chatter at non-Lego centric web sites and in some cases main stream media coverage. As an advertising medium for the Lego brand, it's a cheap investment with a broad payoff. So long as talented builders continue to volunteer their designs and devoted fans of Lego, various IPs, video games, movies, etc. keep participating CuuSoo is a win for them. The cost to maintain the site and pay royalties on a tiny run of kits (successful of not - not to say that there is any reason to suspect that anything that has made it through the gauntlet wouldn't be successful) is a trivial investment for the returns they are realizing from brand awareness alone. People who don't usually buy Lego are talking about Lego because of something someone saw or posted on Cuusoo - from a pure marketing standpoint, that's a good thing. AFOLs were (and are still) going to buy Lego anyway and - fair or not - I think that discounts our opinion with respect to how CuuSoo _should_ be run or what _should_ constitute a successful project.

I do not want to be pointed, but when you interpret LEGO CUUSOO actions in this way, I don't think it is realistic to expect them to satisfy you, given the constraints they work under.

I don't _expect_ to be "satisfied" by much of what Cuusoo does or doesn't do anymore, I gave up on that over a year ago. You are absolutely right to cite "the constraints they work under". I don't _blame_ Tim or any of the Cuusoo team for what Cuusoo has (or hasn't) become or my personal disappointment with the kits that have or haven't passed review. They are just one little fiefdom in a very feudal environment where the Lego brand is king and their hands are tied with ropes of red tape, legal constraints and internal politics. I'm willing to believe that the Cuusoo Team is trying to do the best they can to address AFOL concerns, but I don't think they're empowered to do much.

Feel free to call me cynical with respect to Cuusoo, it's a fair observation. I gave them the benefit of the doubt when the whole experiment was launched. I gave them time to get through the natural growing pains of a new process, I gave them frequent feedback back when they were actively asking for it and I posted a few projects in the early days. Now the onus is on them to convince me that I should continue to support Cuusoo with my designs and support for projects.

Again, this rant, in no way, is meant to reflect badly on the Exo-Suit proposal. It's just an expression of frustration that TLG (on the whole) seems to respect Cuuson more as a brand advertising vehicle than its nominal role as an incubator for fresh, "outside" ideas. When it comes to the AFOL fan base, the default behavior seems to be to do the bare minimum to keep us engaged, hopeful and ready to provide free content for the web site.

[LEGO.Inc]

Agree with some posts here. 2 statements were made that I share.

1: 2 Ghostbuster sets. Huge fan base. If the rights of a BTTF set could be acquired, it certainly could happen with Ghostbusters right?!

2: Eco-suit > Exo-force. The theme wasn't quite what Lego hoped to be. Some robots were cool, but marginal (few pieces that made the robot). The sets were dumped en mass on the market. Second hand the sets are cheaper than a Happy Meal. It could have been so much better. Maybe the pieces aren't of any interest for AFOL's. Think of what you could make of those robot sets. It has still some potential.

[DPrime]

Cool! But I hope they keep it in line with the Neo-Classic Space feel. :)

[Elrond]

Congrats to the creator of that exosuit. It looks quite nice, I might pick it up depending on how TLG's version looks.

Also, I really hope the next CUUSOO set will be the Ecto-1. I'll keep my fingers crossed till the next review.

[PMJ]

How do you know those ideas were rejected easily? How would an idea which got rejected with difficulty appear any different?

Exactly. There is no way to tell what got rejected easily and what didn't. Something terrible that got 10,000 votes and something amazing that got 10,000 votes are put in the same category as rejected with no (given) reason as to why.

[GregoryBrick]

I never said it was the only reason (as I said I like the project and I'm happy it's getting a shot) [...]

You wrote that this proposal 'caught a break', and LEGO picked it 'just to distract the audience . . . '. But if you want to say that there are additional reasons it was selected, that's fine.

I don't see any compelling evidence that CUUSOO is mainly a 'brand advertising vehicle' which exploits the free content which users produce. The idea that they would take a loss on the sets produced because CUUSOO is so profitable in terms of advertising/branding doesn't seem to be supported by evidence. CUUSOO is pretty niche.

I think the CUUSOO team and LEGO have been nothing but clear and accommodating, as demonstrated by their explanations and actions. In order to see things from your point of view, I would have to outright assume that CUUSOO/LEGO are being disingenuous and then fault them for it. But if you take this stance, it seems nobody could convince you of anything, because any positive evidence is only camouflage for ulterior motives. Am I reading you wrong? It seems your argument is that LEGO is primarily using CUUSOO for promotion, and that they would just as soon reject everything, but they can't do that, because it would make AFOLs angry, so their approval of a proposal isn't really based on merit and feasibility, but on maintaining public investment in their brand vehicle. This strikes me as downright conspiratorial, so feel free to explain what I've missed.

Edited October 24, 2013 by GregoryBrick

[lightningtiger]

Here's a point that some may not of considered......when a project is posted on Cuusoo you sign it over to Lego.....hence they've got it now and the possibility of a design coming out in a slightly different shape or form but still similar to the original might be produced......and Lego keeping all the profits.

[dr_spock]

Here's a point that some may not of considered......when a project is posted on Cuusoo you sign it over to Lego.....hence they've got it now and the possibility of a design coming out in a slightly different shape or form but still similar to the original might be produced......and Lego keeping all the profits.

I thought you get 1% of sales if your project go to market, n'est-ce pas?

[lightningtiger]

I thought you get 1% of sales if your project go to market, n'est-ce pas?

That's if it gets 10K supports and passes the review.......since you sign over the legal rights to one's design they can take it and recreate their own way.

[AndyC]

That's if it gets 10K supports and passes the review.......since you sign over the legal rights to one's design they can take it and recreate their own way.

Legally I doubt that, it's a two-way contract. You have given them the rights to produce it but they are obliged to pay out if they ever did.

[ShaydDeGrai]

This strikes me as downright conspiratorial, so feel free to explain what I've missed.

Conspiratorial - no; smart business choice if you, as a corporation are more interested in the big picture than the success of some niche market, - yes.

For example, Simon Pegg was on Conan plugging the Lego Winchester project to Shaun of the Dead fans (and general Conan fans for that matter). A 30 second one-time spot on Conan sells for $40,000 - the celebrity endorsement would have easily exceeded, factor in the fact that the segment got picked up by national news agencies and rebroadcast as well as getting mentions in USA today, the New York Times and other print and on-line media, and you have brand exposure that would have cost several million dollars to purchase if it were part of a conventional advertising campaign. The price of a few peoples' salaries, a website and the occasional niche set becomes easy to justify if you stumble upon one or "Simon Pegg Moments" per year (on top of the general buzz of just tweets and likes) . Lego Perdue Pete may be DOA, but I wonder how many Perdue alumni came out of dark ages or bought existing Lego kits as gifts for kids and grandkids after the campaign for particular project put Lego back on their radar. Is this morally "wrong"? I don't think so, TLG is a company, they need to sell product to continue to exist and "free" advertising means more money for new kits and molds. Guerilla marketing is just another tool in the toolbox.

On the other hand, I think Lego fans are too quick to defend TLG and CuuSoo, and perhaps too enamored of the idea that a 1% royalty is like hitting the lottery (do the math, in the past two and half years four kits have been released with an average price of 40USD and combined production run of 50K kits, "1%" amounts to $20,000 in royalties combined - coincidently half the price of a 30 second commercial slot on Conan in the US market - pocket change for a company the size of TLG).

My "cynical" opinion is informed from watching Cuusoo since it first went live, reading blogs from Tim C. and Sara M., live comments from Tim and Kevin H at fan conventions, etc. as well as a basic understanding of economics, marketing and psychology. Statistically, the process is more valuable to TLG than the product. Take a Lego Survey, the question they ask ten different ways is whether or not _you_ are recommending LEGO as a brand to others. They understand the value of social network and guerilla advertising. All the "successful" sold to date (assuming they've all sold out) represent less than $2M in revenue (before production and licensing costs) but the "buzz factor" is worth significantly more than that and I'm sure they have the business acumen to realize it.

[mx2000]

1. Thinking With Portals - I think TLG probably gave this one a lot of thought. Much deeper analysis than most. For Pro's it's an interesting and (somewhat) non violent game that is very popular. And the project seemed to be dancing around some rather interesting new play features. The Cons were the new molds, and the typical baggage of any video game project. Limited fan base. Limited lifespan of the tied in game IP, etc. in the end the numbers probably just could not add up. The big problem is most likely this. By the time this project could hit retail shelves, not only would the game itself have been long absent from said shelves, but every platform on which it was possible to play the game would have been replaced or obsoleted by new consoles, or radically new OS's. Great game. Great project. But the timing...

Huh?

Both games sold many million copies, both are considered to be among the best PC games ever made. It's is an extremely well-known franchise, has something of cult following, and has spawned a surprising amount of merchandise (heck, there are plush Companion Cubes...). Also, we are not in the 80ies anymore, platforms are not replaced every two years. You can buy the original Half-Life from 1998 on Steam and start playing. Lego seems to have a lot less concerns producing licensed sets for any semi-decent movie "franchise" (Prince of Persia?), so popularity should be the least concerning issue here.

I think it is in fact the other way round, Portal's huge popularity was the only thing that kept them from rejecting it right away. Based on the reasoning given for previous rejections (you know, when they still bothered to give an explanation), there is a strong sense of "not invented here" syndrome. They could not even be bothered to reject these projects in time, so the internal priority of Cuusoo seems to be really, really low.

[Laservampire]

You guys need to remember the biggest positive outcome of this review period: they rejected Purdue Pete

[Dorayaki]

If they had simply proposed a nice Starbucks set, with a single license to deal with, and no drastically reduced expectations, it might have passed review. The Female Minifig project might bump into this as well.

Nope. As mentioned:

the creator of mini shops mentioned the possibility that only one shop can be used if TLG doesn't want to make a subtheme. If they did compromise, they can choose the most popular or easiest license. So perhaps it's not the reason.

Similarly, creator of the Female Minifig project recommended three characters first in case that TLC wouldn't manufacture more of female minifigures in this project. I think they did think about it.

In Cuusoo website, there are still some projects with single chain store buildings.They could be more polished than mini shops, but we still don't know if it can help them get passed.