The position and future of Friends and minidolls in Lego?

[ZORK64]

Oh yeah right, I wanted to return to this topic once I've seen the movie, which I did near the end of 2014.

(Sorry for necroposting here)

First of all, I would say that R.O.B. and Good/Bad Cop differ in some aspects to the point that they aren't really comparable with eachother. Granted, they share two aspects with eachoter...

1) They are the dragon to the big bad

2) They join the good guys in the later end of the story line.

However, they also differ in a few points:

1) Their motivation/loyalty is vastly different. While Bad Cop is actually pretty loyal to President Business (and only switches sides once Business no longer has any use for him), R.O.B. serves Tabuuh against his will because he enslaved R.O.B.'s entire species, and by cooperating with Tabuuh he hoped to do some sort of damage control. Also, R.O.B. is way more fatalistic than Bad Cop, because after he fought the mooks of the Subspace Army, he was actually ready to get blastet among with his island and folks if it weren't for the other heroes to drag him out there.

2) Their appearance. Bad Cop never made a secret out of who he is, while R.O.B. shows up as the Ancient Minister until the moment he rebels against the Subspace Army.

3) This one is arguably a bit debatable, but their role in the story's climax is probably also worth noting. Good Cop hasn't much of an impact on the plot after he saves Wyldstyle on the others, while R.O.B. can be in fact the one who defeats Tabuuh if the players chooses him for this fight.

I'm not sure how many of these points are really relevant to the topic at hand, but if Smash Bros. is brought up, I tend to ramble a bit, because, you know, it's Smash Bros.!

(I should also mention that I haven't played Brawl's story mode in quite some time, so apologies if I remember any crucial elements completely wrong)

As for the "Minidolls are not in the movie" thing, there was something else that just occured to me: As noted earlier, Metalbeard is arguably a nod towards the constraction lines, alongside with being obviously a pirate, what makes him an amalgamation of these two themes.

Looking at Unikitty and thinking about the Girl-oriented themes that LEGO did, I noticed that TLG used figures different from minifigs already in past "girly" themes. Considering that Unikitty is not a minifig, I'd say she might also be a nod towards those themes as she's done in an obviously different style.

[Soupperson1]

What about for the Wonder Woman movie next year? Suicide squad is being aimed towards adults I assume WW will be aimed towards girls and women.

[Dorayaki]

Sorry to bump up this topic after such a long time. I add some newer things based on recent issues, if this violates, please inform.

And since minidolls have gone into different places, wonder if it could be moved to General LEGO Discussion?

[xboxtravis7992]

I've been a bit of a traditionalist "I don't want Friends sets because they are girl toys" type of guys; but the new Friends sets are starting to erode that perception; first with the pug (which I will be buying), and now with the upcoming Amusement Park sets.

However my biggest obstacle in buying a Friends set is the minidoll itself. I have nearly 200+ minifigures and I feel that a Friends minidoll would break the consistency. I feel putting a minidoll and a Minifig together is just as jarring as putting a Megablocks Halo figure next to a Minifig; at least in my opinion. I know some FOLs use the minidoll as sort of a "supermodel" figure, but I still find that hard to swallow.

However at the same time I amsad that there has been a bias from some Lego fans towards minidoll sets. While it's one thing to have a different opinion, it is strange to see outright hate towards a particular product line. At least a lot of AFOL websites are covering minidoll sets, showing they are gaining acceptance (unlike Constraction which continues to unescarily get a cold shoulder from many AFOLs, that's a topic for another day).

Well, as for my own opinions I'll see if these Amusement Park sets are well done, and if they will lead me to my first minidolls. But it will still be a hard adjustment to see the Friends next to all my traditional minifigures.

[Sven F]

Why would you have to use the minidolls if you have the set? I just take their hairpieces and use normal minifigures. Minidolls go into a box.

[Japanbuilder]

Don't really see the issue. My little girls have no problem mixing them for play. They are toys to them.

For city builders the solution is simple I think. Just don't use the Minidolls in your MOCs. Get the colorful CMF line of mini figures or even some of the colorful ones from Lego Juniors to round out your population with female orientated figures. Most of the mini doll accessories if not all work just fine with mini figures too so you can make some good Minifig twins if you like. There are plenty of options I think.

My only beef with the Minidolls is no holes in the back of the legs for sitting down. My little girls know that a car seat is a car seat and it irks them bit to not have their princesses be able to sit in the police helicopters (they don't mind extending the builds to make them fit either but they just don't stay seated is the issue)lol. I also noticed their hands have minimal wrist articulation which makes them going on canoe trips on the city caravan a bit difficult >.>

But ultimately they are two different lines of toys from Lego. Both have their place and kids don't care they use both freely when they're there to be used.

I also don't think they will outright replace either figure going forward. So many decades now of vested collectors in the mini figure universe and a growing user base of mini doll users too. Both working around the same brick system no need to fix what is not busted as some other users have said.

[dr_spock]

I don't have issues making MOCs with minidolls and mixing those MOCs with MOCs that have minifigs for our LUG events. The girls and some moms seem to get excited when they spot the minidolls in my MOCs. I'm impressed when they can name all the minidolls in my MOC. Then we give them a Friends polybag award.

If you don't want your minidolls, give Modulex Guy a shout. I think he is building a Friends army. http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=111538

[El Garfio]

Competitors are betting hard with minidolls (Knex is the last firm that has released it version of minidoll, and there is another firm of constructions, not studed bricks, but constructions at all, that has included minidolls in its sets).

But, seeing angry birds sets, now for me the question is not minifigs or minidolls, either if LEGO is going to introduce more cartoon style figures in the sets if the Licensed Product requires it. I don't know if LEGO is going to sign with one of the next year best licenses (Danger Mouse and ThunderBirds) but if it does, I can hardly imagine them with minifigs, I can better imagine then with minidolls but I don't discart seeing them with cartoon style figures.

Another question unresolved is the future Disney CMF and the leaked list of characters. For me, it's difficult to see some of them as minifigs.

Other theme, is SUPER HERO GIRLS sets, are there some new info about them and witch kind of figs they are going to include?

Rereading the TL of this post I see that the opinion I wrote in 2003 about Female Junior Sets was very accurate. Minidolls are coming to Junior Sets and it seems that it is going to stay for a long long time.

[x105Black]

Why would you have to use the minidolls if you have the set? I just take their hairpieces and use normal minifigures. Minidolls go into a box.

The main issue to me is value. If the sets come with minidolls that I will not use, then the sets lose value. It would be worth it to me to buy them if they came with minifigures, as the sets themselves are nice. I wish there was a way to trade in minidolls for minifigures, or to get a version with no minidolls at a discount.

[Lyichir]

I'd certainly like to see mini-dolls appear in things like Lego Dimensions and The Lego Movie 2. The latter is probably more likely than the former—considering the time skip between the first and second movies, it's possible that Finn's sister will fall neatly into the age range for mini-doll themes by the second movie. Lego Dimensions is a tougher question, since the game hasn't been great about unlicensed themes anyway and the most prominent licensed theme with mini-dolls is, as you say, a Disney property. I should note, however, that Lego Worlds DOES have both minifigure and mini-doll characters—the first major media project by Lego to feature both.

[Aanchir]

I've been a bit of a traditionalist "I don't want Friends sets because they are girl toys" type of guys; but the new Friends sets are starting to erode that perception; first with the pug (which I will be buying), and now with the upcoming Amusement Park sets.

However my biggest obstacle in buying a Friends set is the minidoll itself. I have nearly 200+ minifigures and I feel that a Friends minidoll would break the consistency. I feel putting a minidoll and a Minifig together is just as jarring as putting a Megablocks Halo figure next to a Minifig; at least in my opinion. I know some FOLs use the minidoll as sort of a "supermodel" figure, but I still find that hard to swallow.

However at the same time I amsad that there has been a bias from some Lego fans towards minidoll sets. While it's one thing to have a different opinion, it is strange to see outright hate towards a particular product line. At least a lot of AFOL websites are covering minidoll sets, showing they are gaining acceptance (unlike Constraction which continues to unescarily get a cold shoulder from many AFOLs, that's a topic for another day).

Well, as for my own opinions I'll see if these Amusement Park sets are well done, and if they will lead me to my first minidolls. But it will still be a hard adjustment to see the Friends next to all my traditional minifigures.

I personally think of the mini-doll a lot like I think of Bionicle and other constraction figures: I would not usually use them interchangeably with minifigures, but they're still useful for their own sorts of worlds and creations.

And don't get me wrong, I'm also not afraid to make "worlds collide" in silly ways. A bunch of My Little Pony figurines are presently populating my Temple of Airjitzu. I started collecting them when I realized they were close to the same size as LEGO minifigures and mini-dolls (i.e. could fit the same doorframes and so forth) and it's fun every now and then to see what they think of my LEGO worlds. :)

[pirzyk]

I will say I have bought into the Friends sets, but mainly for the animals. I put the animals in my displays and it is very interesting to see who sees them. I am starting to convert some of the sets to modulars, and all my minidols go to Modulex Guy :) I am wondering what he is up to....

[Dorayaki]

I've been a bit of a traditionalist "I don't want Friends sets because they are girl toys" type of guys; but the new Friends sets are starting to erode that perception; first with the pug (which I will be buying), and now with the upcoming Amusement Park sets.

However my biggest obstacle in buying a Friends set is the minidoll itself. I have nearly 200+ minifigures and I feel that a Friends minidoll would break the consistency. I feel putting a minidoll and a Minifig together is just as jarring as putting a Megablocks Halo figure next to a Minifig; at least in my opinion. I know some FOLs use the minidoll as sort of a "supermodel" figure, but I still find that hard to swallow.

Just in general, the major benefits from the whole Friends theme are the buildings rather than the figures. So far Friends' subthemes have introduced some like Camp, Superstar, Jungle Rescue series and many of them were definitely original. However, the Superstar lineup could be an exception since it's all about Livi and very story-oriented. If she's not as hot as a real superstar, I kinda doubt that Ninjago or Superheroes FOLs would try hard to get her sets.

You do point out the consistency issue. I believe that most new KFOLs can notice that both minidolls and minifigures are LEGO's properties, however, figures from other competitor brands, or even worse, clone brand issues are there. I think there is a reason why LEGO want to avoid that kind of thing cause they cannot encourage this happening.

I personaly don't agree too much with the supermodel theory since minidolls were made to be cater to the market. Those characters who actually have the supermodel figure would still be minifigrues depending on which market group they're sold to.

Competitors are betting hard with minidolls (Knex is the last firm that has released it version of minidoll, and there is another firm of constructions, not studed bricks, but constructions at all, that has included minidolls in its sets).

But, seeing angry birds sets, now for me the question is not minifigs or minidolls, either if LEGO is going to introduce more cartoon style figures in the sets if the Licensed Product requires it. I don't know if LEGO is going to sign with one of the next year best licenses (Danger Mouse and ThunderBirds) but if it does, I can hardly imagine them with minifigs, I can better imagine then with minidolls but I don't discart seeing them with cartoon style figures.

Rereading the TL of this post I see that the opinion I wrote in 2003 about Female Junior Sets was very accurate. Minidolls are coming to Junior Sets and it seems that it is going to stay for a long long time.

I'm a loyal FOL.... or I should say there's not too many other brick brands in my region so I cannot compare all of those figures. Anyway, just within K'Nex, if I guess right, is the franchise you meant called "Mighty Makers"? It looks like an extension from their own construction toy system despite their characters/figures look kinda like a copycat to me. Their Super Mario princess's also look very mini-dolly, but the Family Girls... not so much. LEGO is still one of they toy brands with most consistent figures, anyway. Megabloks is the classic reverse example, their Monster High figures are even different from Barbie despite they cover similiar market .

Just in LEGO's viewpoint, as long as minidolls are safe for 5yo kids, they can do Junior minidoll sets. Just wonder why they spend several years to do pink Junior minifigure sets before a Junior minidoll set this year? For more market research?

I'd certainly like to see mini-dolls appear in things like Lego Dimensions and The Lego Movie 2. The latter is probably more likely than the former—considering the time skip between the first and second movies, it's possible that Finn's sister will fall neatly into the age range for mini-doll themes by the second movie. Lego Dimensions is a tougher question, since the game hasn't been great about unlicensed themes anyway and the most prominent licensed theme with mini-dolls is, as you say, a Disney property. I should note, however, that Lego Worlds DOES have both minifigure and mini-doll characters—the first major media project by Lego to feature both.

In earlier cataloge or advertisings, minidolls can stand with minifigures, but now since it's very possible that we're gonna see both minifigures and minidolls in certain franchises like Disney or Superheroes, the theory would be that every LEGO character can be presented as either minifigure or minidoll. And if we follow the "consistency" path, that means we may only see either a whole-minifigure world or a whole-minidoll world depending on the viewpoint we choose.

And usually LEGO's inclination is to choose minifigures as their major viewpoint. So at this point, although I support Friends to join either LD or TLM by all means, I think it would be awkward to see that all characters from other themes are minifigures but just Friends remain as minidolls. But in a realistic view, it could also be that Finn's sister bring her minidolls (which is her preference) into her brother Finn's minifigure world. That makes sense although would be different from a pure LEGO world viewpoint.

As for LD... yeah, like you say, if Disney eventually joins then they could probably overshadow both Elves and Friends.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Dorayaki

[xboxtravis7992]

You do point out the consistency issue. I believe that most new KFOLs can notice that both minidolls and minifigures are LEGO's properties, however, figures from other competitor brands, or even worse, clone brand issues are there. I think there is a reason why LEGO want to avoid that kind of thing cause they cannot encourage this happening.

Now that photos of the Friends Hot Dog truck have surfaced; I am starting to think my paths will cross with minidolls; and with the consistency issue I figure I could just store the minidolls well for the distant future were I probably will have children I want to indoctrinate as Lego fans. They will definitely enjoy minidolls more than I would anyways! :)

[x105Black]

it's very possible that we're gonna see both minifigures and minidolls in certain franchises like Disney or Superheroes

Disney will be minifigures, Disney Princesses is minidolls. I think the only Superhero theme with minidolls will be the DC Super Hero Girls theme. So, minidolls will still be limited to certain themes. I don't think we will see both in a theme together.

[Lyichir]

Disney will be minifigures, Disney Princesses is minidolls. I think the only Superhero theme with minidolls will be the DC Super Hero Girls theme. So, minidolls will still be limited to certain themes. I don't think we will see both in a theme together.

Again, I think we might see the two in a theme together if it's a "crossover" theme like The Lego Movie or Lego Dimensions. After all, those two themes already feature both yellow-skinned figs and fleshies existing side-by-side—throwing in a few mini-dolls wouldn't be a huge leap. But I agree that we'll probably never see both minifigures and mini-dolls in most general themes.

[Dorayaki]

Disney will be minifigures, Disney Princesses is minidolls. I think the only Superhero theme with minidolls will be the DC Super Hero Girls theme. So, minidolls will still be limited to certain themes. I don't think we will see both in a theme together.

Well I think you know what I mean about Disney . As for TLM and LD, the main point is that one certain character cannot freely changed from one figure to another cause not just kids but adult audience would be confused.

Duplo figure for example, there are now Duplo Superheroes and TLM had some hints about Duplo system. However, the chance that Batman would be represented as a Duplo figure or minidoll in hie upcoming film or TLM2 is, I think, almost 0%. (But would an independent Duplo figure / Duplo-brickbuilt character be introduced? Let's see) At most the storyline can make all three kinds of figures coexist to make it a joke scene. If that is the basic rule LEGO want to follow, I think the rest of minidoll themes, Friends and Elves, would not be represented as minidolls in each kind of LEGO media work.

My only beef with the Minidolls is no holes in the back of the legs for sitting down. My little girls know that a car seat is a car seat and it irks them bit to not have their princesses be able to sit in the police helicopters (they don't mind extending the builds to make them fit either but they just don't stay seated is the issue)lol. I also noticed their hands have minimal wrist articulation which makes them going on canoe trips on the city caravan a bit difficult >.>

I also don't think they will outright replace either figure going forward. So many decades now of vested collectors in the mini figure universe and a growing user base of mini doll users too. Both working around the same brick system no need to fix what is not busted as some other users have said.

Aside from gender marketing, I think the lack of abilities is the secondary reason why minidolls are not used for licensed action themes in the first place. Kids would focus on its movaility and they would find out minidolls cannot fulfill their needs despite the female characters are more goodlooking.

Unfortunately it shows that minidolls are overlooked by LEGO despite they won't disappear in short time. Minidolls have own firm market, but it's not good to see that LEGO does not want to do favors to either the figures or the characters to acknowledge their existence. It almost feels like Belville time despite now minidolls should go stronger.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Dorayaki

[x105Black]

Kids would focus on its movaility and they would find out minidolls cannot fulfill their needs despite the female characters are more goodlooking.

It disagree. They look terrible.

Edited January 31, 2016 by x105Black

[Soupperson1]

I guess this thread is worth piping from here:

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=139169&hl=

[ZORK64]

As for TLM and LD, the main point is that one certain character cannot freely changed from one figure to another cause not just kids but adult audience would be confused.

Duplo figure for example, there are now Duplo Superheroes and TLM had some hints about Duplo system. However, the chance that Batman would be represented as a Duplo figure or minidoll in hie upcoming film or TLM2 is, I think, almost 0%. (But would an independent Duplo figure / Duplo-brickbuilt character be introduced? Let's see) At most the storyline can make all three kinds of figures coexist to make it a joke scene. If that is the basic rule LEGO want to follow, I think the rest of minidoll themes, Friends and Elves, would not be represented as minidolls in each kind of LEGO media work.

Now I really want to have a scene in the next LEGO Movie where Duplo Batman shows up and annoys regular LEGO Movie Batman.

Personally, I think it would be weirder if the characters from Friends (or Elves, for that matter) would be suddenly represented as minifigures in media work such as The LEGO Movie. While keeping them Minidolls would make certain animations more tricky (as they aren't able to move their legs indepently from each other), not keeping them as Minidolls would basically say that the dolls can only play with the minifigs when they're also suddenly figs.

[The lego fan]

Personally, I think the friends line is getting way better with things like all the cute animal moulds, the heart lake grand hotel and the hotdog stand (all awesome!). But I realy think lego should ban minidolls( which I don't like) and replace them with sim alar figs to that of that old lego  theme- paridisa. Some of those torso's were realy good and I've always thought they should re- issue dolphin point.

[jjr_2009]

Yes, I kind of consider Paradise to be the "gold standard" when it comes to themes specifically aimed at girls. Some of the builds were great for their time, and all of the minifigures were super adaptable to the Town theme. I've been very impressed with some of the Friends builds, but I would rather see them incorporated into a better City theme that wasn't so focused on vehicles and police forces--wishful thinking on my part. I don't think minidolls are terrible, but I do think that they are quite inferior to minifigures.

[x105Black]

5 hours ago, jjr_2009 said:

I don't think minidolls are terrible, but I do think that they are quite inferior to minifigures.

For me, it's not just the inferior / superior argument, it's also the compatibility issue. I don't think they are compatible, the 2 types of figures look awful together.

[Aanchir]

13 hours ago, jjr_2009 said:

Yes, I kind of consider Paradise to be the "gold standard" when it comes to themes specifically aimed at girls. Some of the builds were great for their time, and all of the minifigures were super adaptable to the Town theme. I've been very impressed with some of the Friends builds, but I would rather see them incorporated into a better City theme that wasn't so focused on vehicles and police forces--wishful thinking on my part. I don't think minidolls are terrible, but I do think that they are quite inferior to minifigures.

Paradisa sets were OK for their time, and I'll admit I was a fan as a kid. That said, I'd hardly call them the "gold standard". Their extremely pastel color schemes looked washed-out compared to the other, more brightly-colored Town sets of the time. The builds were alright in terms of looks, but often had large pieces and small piece counts compared to similarly-priced Town sets from the same period. And the overall subject matter focused pretty strictly on leisure/vacation scenarios, unlike Friends which covers a much wider range of scenarios and interests.

The minifigures were… alright by early 90s standards, but certainly not great. None of the characters felt as fashionable or had as much personality as Friends or Elves character designs. It may be true that this was in accordance with the design standards for all themes at that time… there were, after all, very few faces, outfits, and hair pieces to choose from in most early 90s themes. That said, that's part of what made the mini-doll so successful — it didn't just settle for the design standards of boy-oriented themes, instead establishing new standards based on what many girls actually preferred to see in a play figure.

[jjr_2009]

Good points about Paradisa--nostalgia is a pretty powerful thing. I actually kind of like the lighter colors though --especially the light green color that was sometimes used. I have two daughters, the oldest of which loves LEGO minifigures. I tend to buy her City sets and Collectable Minifigures--Friends sets work well with both of those themes. She's not really into the minidolls but that could change in the future.

Now the Elves theme is pretty fantastic. I'm consistently impressed by how well LEGO has done with those kits!