The Lego Movie and canon

[Oky]

Hi everybody. Everyone is getting excited for The Lego Movie coming out next year and the tie-in sets have been getting generally positive responses too. However, there is one thing that has been bugging me about this movie: How does it fit into the Lego universe?

The story of the film is still mostly shrouded in mystery, but what we do know is that it depicts a world almost entirely made of Lego, with a few real-world items mixed in such as lollipops, batteries, and glue, where all Lego themes co-exist in the same world, even licensed themes, with each theme being represented as a town in this world. My question is: Is this part of the Lego canon, i.e. how Lego views their fictional universe?

The nature of the Lego universe has never been quite clear. In the beginning, the themes were all separate until Time Cruisers introduced the idea that they all exist in the same world, just in different time zones / locations. However, this concept was later challenged by the Clutch Powers movie which suggests that almost every Lego theme exists on a different planet in the Lego universe. The MMO "Lego Universe" and the Ninjago TV series (which references Clutch Powers) support this idea. Considering the time cruisers were capable of interplanetary travel, this concept doesn't really contradict that of Time Cruisers, even though it was usually implied that all the time zones the cruisers traveled to were set on Earth (except for the space themes). For more on planets in the Lego universe, check out this handy index.

Now the Lego Movie comes around and suggests that all themes take place on the same planet at the same time. Is Lego retconing their previously established canon? Or is the Lego Movie taking place in its own universe, separate from all other Lego themes? There are several differences between things in the Lego themes and their counterparts in the Lego Movie that suggest that the latter might be the case. For example, Batman is portrayed as a parody of himself rather than the awesome brooding Dark Knight that he usually is. He is an egotistical jerk who is very bad at throwing Batarangs, and he is said to protect Bricksburg, not Gotham City, so this can't be the Batman that we see in the sets and videogames. Also, I don't think Octan was meant to be an evil mega-corporation that owns everything in the Lego world (including meat products) until now. So perhaps The Lego Movie is more of a parallel universe to the main Lego universe? If that's the case, how do you incorporate the Lego Movie sets into your collection? Do you integrate them into your Lego City layout or keep them in their own separate corner on your display shelf?

Perhaps the movie will shed some light on this matter, or maybe it wont. But whatever the official canon is, everybody has their own "head canon" or idea of how the Lego Movie fits into the Lego universe, so I would like to hear your thoughts on this. So what do you think? Does the Lego Movie affect the Lego canon? If so, how? Or am I just being a total geek and completely over-thinking this?

[obsidianheart]

I think you might be putting more thought into it than they are.

EDIT: I've said this before, and I was only half-joking, but it would not surprise me if the final shot of the movie is a live-action scene of a couple of kids playing with piles of LEGO in the middle of a floor. The inclusion of the lollipop staff and laser-pointer death-ray have only served to reinforce the idea that while the adventure might be world-threatening to Emmet and company, it really is just playtime for someone with a huuuuuge tub of elements.

Edited November 16, 2013 by obsidianheart

[Oky]

You're right, the inclusion of real-world elements like lollipops does disprove the idea of it taking place in the Lego universe even further and makes it seem like the whole movie is just something that a kid might imagine while playing with all these different Lego themes scattered across their bedroom floor. And it is possible that there might be a scene like that in the movie since the first rumors about this film did say that it would have live action elements in it. But in that case, where do the sets based on the movie fit into all this? I suppose one could just view them as a licensed theme that takes place in its own universe like every other licensed theme, even though it is made out of Lego City and Wild West elements.

[jamesster]

The nature of the Lego universe has never been quite clear. In the beginning, the themes were all separate until Time Cruisers introduced the idea that they all exist in the same world, just in different time zones / locations. However, this concept was later challenged by the Clutch Powers movie which suggests that almost every Lego theme exists on a different planet in the Lego universe. The MMO "Lego Universe" and the Ninjago TV series (which references Clutch Powers) support this idea.

Mind if I nitpick for a moment? Captain Indigo comics from the 80s Bricks 'n Pieces magazine involved classic space, Futuron, town, Black Knights, Crusaders, and Forestmen (with time travel involved in the castle bits), and LU only took place on a single planet (Crux) which had been shattered into various fragments, without much mention of other planets in the universe.

So perhaps The Lego Movie is more of a parallel universe to the main Lego universe?

That's what I'm going with.

[Tohst]

Mind if I nitpick for a moment? Captain Indigo comics from the 80s Bricks 'n Pieces magazine involved classic space, Futuron, town, Black Knights, Crusaders, and Forestmen (with time travel involved in the castle bits), and LU only took place on a single planet (Crux) which had been shattered into various fragments, without much mention of other planets in the universe.

That's what I'm going with.

Well, if we're going to nitpick. The 1980 Idea book showed Town, Castle, and Space were all in the same universe. No need for time travel, just a space ship. And I would love Bill and Mary to show up in the Lego movie.

-Tohst

[Ardelon]

So perhaps The Lego Movie is more of a parallel universe to the main Lego universe? If that's the case, how do you incorporate the Lego Movie sets into your collection? Do you integrate them into your Lego City layout or keep them in their own separate corner on your display shelf?

This is my internal theory as well. As for the second part of the question(s), I dont plan to buy the sets at all, but if I did, I would mix them up with my other sets no problem.

[Dr.Cogg]

Oky, you forgot about Lego Island ,where Pepper Roni had to go to different themes to stop the Brickster.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Dr.Cogg

[Freddy Bricker]

I agree obsidianheart, it may just be a kid playing with his Lego, but I'm sure it will somehow tie into the main universe. My theory is that all Lego are connected one way or another, and as true fans of Lego (I don't mind being perceived as a "fan") I believe it is only right that we know where our play sets stand in the whole Lego universe. Nice idea you brought up here Oky, I hope to see what others have to say about this.

[TheLegoDr]

I had no idea there was an official lego universe. I guess that is how much I pay attention. I have never thought about how I would incorporate the sets into my collection since most would be in brick piles to build something else. Interesting.

[Lordofdragonss]

Ah I hoped Oky will start thread like this!

We know Heartlake city is in the same planet the "Movie city" (Called Bricksburg if I recall it correctly).

And there is Green Ninja... And Michelangelo. And Super Heroes...

I love discussing Lego Headcanons and I somewhat hate how Lego mixes the styles in their promotional contents.

For example Ninjago and Chima movies are set in "No Brick" universe, when books, games and comics are. The Friends theme in other hand are set it traditional Brick universe- Where real plants and brick plants live together in peace :) I find this pretty annoying and confusing.

My Headcanon:

There are different planets. For sure. But some of them have no BRICK source that is needed to make Lego related pieces using the Imagination. Just like the Universe game stated.

Chima and Ninjago planet are just like that. They need to make weapons, and machines from real life materials, where on planets where Brick source is- they dig it (or smash stuff! :D ) and use it for molding stuff.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Lordofdragonss

[Piranha]

LEGO lore is pretty interesting, especially the space stuff, these timeline and planet discussions are good reads.

I have read that the directors wanted to make the film similar to a kid playing with their LEGO, mixing everything together, etc.

It is also not a storyline from LEGO directly, LEGO let the directors create their own storyline using LEGO but they also gave some creative input.

In the end, I feel the running continuity of LEGO is made up as the themes come along.

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

What I want to know is whether the three Lego Star Wars cartoons (Padawan Menace, Empire Strikes Out, and Yoda Chronicles) are canon with the Star Wars universe. Other than Maul surviving to the original trilogy era, there's nothing that says it can't be... (the silliness notwithstanding).

[tafkatb]

As long as we're overthinking things, where do you think Fabuland fits in, considering a character from the movie wears a Fabuland shirt? Is it a theme park?

[Infernum]

I had no idea there was an official lego universe. I guess that is how much I pay attention. I have never thought about how I would incorporate the sets into my collection since most would be in brick piles to build something else. Interesting.

Pretty much how I feel. Interesting to think that all the themes might be connected in some way. To a kid though, they're all able to be mixed and matched to play with. So I'd say the "official LEGO Universe" is basically however you want to manage your sets!

[Freddy Bricker]

As long as we're overthinking things, where do you think Fabuland fits in, considering a character from the movie wears a Fabuland shirt? Is it a theme park?

A theme park? This read just got a whole lot better! That seems like the most plausible solution to how Fabuland fits right in to the Lego Universe. Maybe the Fabuland creatures are just minifigures in costumes? Or maybe they are creatures from a land known as Fabuland?

[obsidianheart]

Maybe the Fabuland creatures are just minifigures in costumes? Or maybe they are creatures from a land known as Fabuland?

So, now that we've opened that can of worms, I suppose that begs the question of "What about those Technic dudes?" and "What about Duplo figs?". If the discussion wants to get super technical, than there's Belville and Jack Stone and Bionicle and Galidor and and and.

Even if you want to limit it to just System themes with minifigs, then you have to allot for the weird armless figures from the early days.

This is why I think that "canon" is pretty much whatever you want it to be with LEGO themes' inter-connectivity.

[Captain Settle]

Galidor

I thought we agreed on calling it 'The theme which shall-not be named'!

[TheLazyChicken]

Also, I don't think Octan was meant to be an evil mega-corporation that owns everything in the Lego world (including meat products) until now.

Maybe Octan was meant for it to be evil. The Skull Twins from Space Police ||| had a Octan Jacket and they were probably told to commit crimes in the space world. Unless it could also mean that they just stole some Octan jacket and decided to wear it. I could be wrong though...

[Lyichir]

I don't think there is or ever has been an overarching Lego canon. Lego Universe's canon never overlapped with other games or themes, and most magazine crossovers or the like operate on their own rules without regard to what has gone before. The Lego Movie continues this trend by inventing its own world where various themes coexist in a toy-like capacity.

I do like to look at how various themes interact in various media (especially when they do so in the sets themselves, such as the Classic Space marble statue in Space Police III or Brains from Power Miners joining the Atlantis crew in the latter theme's second year). But if you're trying to reconcile the disparate canons Lego has established in the past, or trying to judge one story's canon as "more canon" than another, you're probably overthinking things.

[obsidianheart]

Don't get me wrong, there is a lot inter-connected things in LEGO's themes. Like the fact the Alpha Team villain Ogel is a descendant of the Knights Kingdom (II) antagonist Vladek, or how the dude in the white shirt who came with that big Dino set last year was the great-grandson of everyone's beloved Johnny Thunder. Space Police 3 was full of references to older space themes, from Insectoids to classic space.

I think that these references aren't there to establish any kind of official framework for the LEGO themes, but as a way for the designers to honor the themes that came before, and tell the fans, "Yes, we remember that thing you liked". I view LEGO's themes to be as modular and open to interpretation as the physical sets themselves. In my "headcanon" all the Alpha Team guys are Agents now (I threw most of the named theme characters in there a while back, as I have a LOT of Agent torsos), but I know a guy who thinks that is the most absurd thing he's ever heard, because Alpha Team is Alpha Team, and never the two shall mix. We didn't get a lot of the same promotional materials in the states that folks got overseas, so this guy refuses to think of Josh Thunder as related to Johnny Thunder, and instead chooses to view Jake Rains as Johnny's professional successor (something about Johnny training Mike, and then Mike training Jake).

I have a third friend who thinks we're both nuts, and just gets sets to build and put on shelves without caring who the figs are or what the theme is.

Anyway, I feel like I'm over-explaining myself here. The real crux of what I'm trying to say is "It's whatever anyone wants it to be for themselves, and that's awesome!"

[TalonCard]

Oky, you made my day by starting this topic. Just so everyone knows, I'm about to devote more words to the topic of the LEGO universe (multiverse?) than would be reasonable for any sane person. In saying this I freely acknowledge that I'm putting more thought into this subject than most have, including anyone at LEGO. If you're uncomfortable with that, look away, look away! ;)

The nature of the Lego universe has never been quite clear. In the beginning, the themes were all separate until Time Cruisers introduced the idea that they all exist in the same world, just in different time zones / locations.

I would argue that by definition the initial trinity of themes were always intended to represent a kind of past, present, and future in what was then known as LEGOLAND. When Pirates came along it introduced an additional historical period, and it was even given a specific time and place in LEGO history. (Well, okay, a couple of different times, but that's a different discussion.) The concept of themes evokes a very specific time and place, and where there are storylines for various themes, they tend to support this assumption.

Now, in practice, kids are going to have a lot of sets from a lot of themes, and they're going to want to play with them all together. So this has produced a sort of fundamental split in LEGO storytelling, where some stories show a sort of logical if fantastic universe with discernible but interconnected historical periods, while others throw every theme together higgledy piggledy.

And it's not enough to merely separate every LEGO story into these two categories, as there is a considerable spectrum of tone and use of uniquely LEGO elements within LEGO lore. The early LEGO Pirate books, comic, and audio dramas deal with death, betrayal, and slavery, and portray the LEGO figures and sets as representations of human beings. More recent offerings such as LEGO City Undercover, and the Atlantis tie-ins feature gags that are only physically possible if the characters have the same features as LEGO minifigures. Nevertheless, their storylines are well developed and maintain a consistent sense of time and place.

Even a few stories that would appear to meld all themes together go to the trouble of providing an explanation of why the themes are able to intermingle: Clutch Powers and LEGO Universe fall into this category. And sometimes the stories that just toss every theme together have a history of their own: LEGO Island has a pretty extensive backstory involving the Infomaniac as the creator of that particular locale. The Collectable Minifigure biographies allude freely to actual history, LEGO's own established continuity, and a sort of free-for-all world that the Collectable minifigures inhabit together without even acknowledging any contradictions in such an approach. And we haven't even gotten into the world(s) the LEGO Maniac seems to inhabit.

I'm straying slightly from the topic at hand, but it's important to note that, appropriately, there is no recognized LEGO canon. There are enough elements to create one or more, however: these are the characters and themes created by LEGO and its various licensees over the years: the books, movies, theme park shows, and particularly the club magazines. This is sort of akin to playing with the sets and minifigures you buy. It's fun, it's entertaining, I think it's worthwhile, but it's only a fraction of the fun of LEGO. I've seen the term headcanon used in this thread, and it's appropriate. I think something like MOCanon might be more fun to adopt, though. :)

Given that, it's less a question of how the LEGO Movie fits into canon than how much of it will fit into any particular perception of the LEGO universe. It's unclear at this point whether all of these disparate characters exist on the same world and time or if they use time or some kind of interdimensional travel to interact with one another. It is pretty clear that they will travel to different realms or planes of existence, so it might be best to consider the movie world as part of a greater multiverse. If they exist all on the same world, perhaps it is compatible with LEGO Island.

These characters do seem to have an unprecedented awareness that they are LEGO figures from different themes. We've seen two hilarious in-jokes obviously targeted at AFOLs so far, and I expect there will be more. (My favorite is the inclusion of the 2002 NBA All-Stars amongst the esteemed Master Builders.) So that sets this interpretation of the LEGO world apart from most others. And I think the characterization of Batman in particular is less egotistical jerk and more how a five or seven year old might choose, in all seriousness, to play Batman.

But perhaps more to the point, the LEGO Movie itself seems to be against a static interpretation of the LEGO universe; the plot seems to revolve around an evil figure gluing the pieces of the universe together for his own purposes. Given the choice of following directions or doing one's own thing, this movie appears to fall thematically and literally on the latter option. (This raises the question of why one would even produce sets with directions in the first place. But this is perhaps too complex a question for this movie.)

Regarding Octan specifically; Oky is right, its use as an evil mega corporation is unique to this movie. It has been ubiquitous in earlier sets, but exclusively as an oil company. (For many years I assumed it was an actual company; there's nothing about the name or logo that gives it away as a LEGO creation. LEGO's occasional partnerships with Shell only muddied the waters.) LEGO has even shown it moving away from the negative 21st century associations with big oil companies: the recent Wind Turbine Transport set shows Octan diversifying into alternative forms of energy.

Lord Business and Octan are the least satisfactory aspect of the movie storyline for me. LEGO's most memorable baddies are alien warlords, pirate captains, corrupt monarchs, and sorcerers--all colorful figures that kids can readily identify. An evil executive would appeal mainly to adults, but surely adults would recognize that the irony of condemning the omnipresense of megacorporations within a film produced by two megacorporations tends to blunt the satire. And it's just overdone at this point; the Lorax had an evil executive overlord similarly shoved into the storyline, and Dispicable Me's villains were beholden to an evil bank (!) of all things. Jokes about Emmet's zeal for explicitly overpriced coffee in particular feel like they've been imported from the 90's. (And as my sister pointed out, they missed a prime opportunity to tie-in a LEGO joke: everything in the LEGO world should cost exactly $100.)

(As a side note, I would attribute Octan's evil status to a result of a hostile takeover and aggressive expansion, possibly by the more overtly sinister Pollutex and Blackwell Industries. But again, MOCanon.)

Still, I dig the conflict between imaginative building and by-the-book permanence, which is one of the things that makes this movie uniquely LEGO. I adore the humor and the main protagonists. What really elevates this movie from being a run-of-the-mill tie-in is the brick-built look. It's not my favorite interpretation of the LEGO world (my heart will always belong to the gorgeous catalog dioramas of the 90's) but it's something we've never seen on this scale. I anticipate buying many tickets. (Lord Business would be proud.)

Well, if we're going to nitpick. The 1980 Idea book showed Town, Castle, and Space were all in the same universe. No need for time travel, just a space ship. And I would love Bill and Mary to show up in the Lego movie.

IIRC (and it's open for interpretation), the Idea Book actually portrayed the Town theme as the "reality" for Bill and Mary--their travels to Castle and Space appeared to be fantasies fueled by a medieval themed fair and a sci-fi movie, respectively. On the other hand, I think a case can be made that Bill and Mary are the same characters as Captain Indigo and Polka-Dot from the Captain Indigo comics in Bricks 'n Pieces, who do travel through time and space.

TC

Edited November 17, 2013 by TalonCard

[ResIpsaLoquitur]

Let's not forget that Octan is a corporate sponsor of racing cars! (Now I feel like I support evil for having gotten the 2013 Advent Calendar with the little Octan car.)

[jamesster]

Haha, I knew you'd be making a massive post in this topic sooner or later TC. Quite a fun read. Also, I want MOCanon in the dictionary.

[Aanchir]

In my opinion, there is no LEGO canon. Each LEGO theme has its own storyline that it can play as loosely or strictly as it wants to be, and there is also room for crossovers that aren't constrained by any canon. Time Cruisers played with the idea that LEGO themes were largely on the same planet at different points in time, Clutch Powers set Castle, Space, and City on different planets, and the LEGO Movie is now appearing to take an entirely different approach.

Prior to BIONICLE, LEGO did not have any fully-organized "intellectual properties" with a thorough story bible explaining the rules of each particular theme. Rather, the producers of the themes' marketing materials could basically take products and premise handed to them by LEGO HQ and present them in their own marketing materials however they liked. And even after BIONICLE, plenty of LEGO themes have played fast and loose with the concept of "canon", as evidenced by Clutch Powers, which took the established themes and once again interpreted them however the creators liked.

I think trying to even ESTABLISH a unified "canon" for LEGO themes ruins the spirit of open-ended playfulness that defines the LEGO brand. Certainly there is room to say certain story-driven themes relate to each other in specific ways, but it is not a mandate. The Mars in LEGO Mars Mission doesn't have to be the same Mars in LEGO Life on Mars, nor does the Governor Broadside from the 2009 LEGO Pirates reboot have to be the same as the original one from 1989. This essay written over a decade ago shows just how stupid it is to try and impose a unified canon across TV shows that happen to cross over — it's just as silly to try and do the same thing for LEGO themes instead of just letting them intermingle according to whatever rules particular stories demand, and letting fans draw their own connections between non-continuity-driven themes however they please.

[Freddy Bricker]

I myself believe that Lego may in some ways have established the foundation of a canon (with the storylines of their themes) and it is up to us to finish it all off and how everything ties together. Honestly, as said before I believe Fabuland can be a dozen different things, and the movie itself may just be a kid playing with bricks. All in all, I really want Lego to establish a sort of "canon" so I can know where everything lies in the world, but my imagination can speak for itself. As a fan of Lego, I would like to know where everything stands in, but if they will not speak on it, I will creat MOCanon, because using your imagination to put things together is just what any Lego fan should do, right?