SoNE feedback thread

[goatman461]

No crazy math. Just let lower XP players post more free builds. They'll get better at building and will catch up to everybody else.

Judging these free builds could be farmed out to higher ranked players to keep from overwhelming the judges

[Lego Spy]

No, please explain.

It's a Pokemon named Ditto. Therefore: triple Ditto.

[Nom Carver]

It's a Pokemon named Ditto. Therefore: triple Ditto.

I see, I was just not familiar with that.

[WickNole]

I'm not sure whether this is my finalized idea, but here it is. In brief - make the XP expendable ! ... or expire-able. (not sure of the proper word to be used) And make them usable.

Now, in detail...

1. XPs age, i.e., say, in 12 months the XP one had earned from the challenge or freebuild will disappear. For the ranking purposes we could leave overall XP amount somewhere. So the rank will remain if the XPs age.

2. XPs are usable, i.e. you can "pay" with your points to get smth, for example:

- 30 XP go "buy" a droid (this could be replaced by, say, 25 XP + freebuild showing how the droid is bought; the idea is that the amount of XP should be significant enough not to allow just to make one freebuild)

- ... XP to "buy" an NPC companion, or to recruit an NPC trooper into the team

- ... XP to "reach" new planet

- ... etc

3. The expireable points are earned by building a character-based build. For example, if a challenge does not require your character to participate - you may decide to make a build on any planet with any NPCs, and you would get a full amount of "general" points - as it happens now - but no "expireable" points. If you decide to include your character - then you are limited to starting planet (or more, if you have "reached" any) and you would need to think of suitable story... so the build is more challenging. But you would get some "expireable" points for the build.

3.1. This would allow to include a third party to the challenge, and it would not be easy / not fun to join it, as a player would have, for example, some difficulties imagining how his "bounty hunter from Nar Eubrikka" would be included into the challenge of "building a Hoth battle scene with size limitation 32*32" if he did not "reached" the planet yet. :)

4. ... have to think ...

[Kodan Black]

I haven't read the whole thread but for ease of finding things it would seem like either a sub-forum of the SoNE sub-forum for freebuilds or a separate sub-forum at the same level would make sense.

I'm still new so I'm not totally familiar with all the XP challenges there are, but I would hope that people aren't participating just for XP. For continuity it would be weird to have people lose XP because if they were a super General in charge of a planet assault in one episode and then suddenly due to lower XP were a Commander it would be sort of odd. It would also force people into storytelling how that happened which could override the story they want to tell.

Maybe at certain XP levels you get people under your command. At 25 xp you get 1 person. At 50 you get 2, etc. That way you could have more options for story telling. At the highest rank maybe you even get a spy for the other side so you could build a "Rebel story" but it is really an Empire build.

Overall I like SoNE and am having fun. I've gone through all the past builds and really enjoyed them. Lots of inspiration to be found. Always a challenge on things like this that are ongoing as you want to avoid having too high a barrier of entry for new folks, while keeping it interesting for the long time veterans.

[goatman461]

As I see it, the problem we're looking at is (1) allowing great builders to gain lots of XP points quickly, while (2) not over inflating the XP points to those in the higher ranks, and (bonus) allowing the XP to be useful and desirable for reasons other than ego.

I like the idea of "buying" NPCs with points. This would solve the problem MP has with being too high of a rank for regular stormtrooper details. Having access to lower ranked characters would allow for more of the day-to-day/day-in-the-life-of-Star-Wars builds that I think this forum was created for. (I also like the spy idea; maybe they could just be super "expensive") I don't think that movement in the ranks (when a player uses their XP to purchase something) would be a problem after the first bit of jostling around. As I see it, there is enough room in the higher ranks to purchase something while staying in that particular "bracket." For example, I would likely "buy" up enough stuff to bust Goatm down to ISB, but as the episodes continued I could maintain my rank by "buying" up NCEs or planets with my excess XP. If somebody wanted to remain a general, they could keep 101 XP and use the rest to "buy" troopers and planets.

I also like the idea of "buying" access to new planets. This would mean we'd have to go back to the build-only-on-these-planets rule. To do this we could auction off the canon planets for XP and each side would have to put a planet up as a prize for each competition (or either side could "host" a challenge on, and for, their planet in exchange for another planet or extra XP or something else). The Outer Rim would have to be a free-for-all in case the Rebels take everything, and so lower XP players could use their creativity without having to "buy" a whole planet. Also, in case it wasn't clear, if one Imperial player "buys" a planet, any Imperial player could build on it.

I don't really get the idea for expireable points. It sounds like too much to keep up with and it would punish those that have stuck with SoNE for a long time.

[Kodan Black]

Yeah, I think expiration is a big burden on a group that already has a lot of work to do.

One point that should be made clear is that you don't have to advance a rank. Just because you reach a new level, you can remain a lower rank.

My main issue with "spending" gets back to the maintenance aspect. Do we have a store thread where we purchase and then someone has to keep looking at that and keep track of player points, etc... seems like a lot of work. That is why I suggested you "earn" it at various levels. I wouldn't want to burn out the people running SoNE for having to keep track of who spent what when. We could add higher levels also so that you get your first "subordinate" at like 75xp, your 2nd at 100, 3rd at 125, and then do other perks.

Alternatively we could cap XP for a character at a certain point and then their score helps their faction, but they personally are capped out. They can build using a new character maybe and effectively start over if they want.

[WickNole]

I have thought about "level-based" earnings. What i did not like there is the absence of choise. One player may want to gather a team early on while another wants a ship and a droid to visit different planets.

[Kodan Black]

I have thought about "level-based" earnings. What i did not like there is the absence of choise. One player may want to gather a team early on while another wants a ship and a droid to visit different planets.

I see what you are saying. Yeah more of a "choose your own path" type thing. I suppose you could make it that at like 50 you get a "2nd NPC" or whatever so it could be a person or droid. Then at like 75 you get either more NPCs or a ship. As long as you keep it so you can "trade them in" it should be fine. You just don't want someone claiming 10 stormtroopers and like a corvette and starting their own army.

But like LegoFjotten has had some good builds centered around a small spec ops squad and that would be cool. Maybe do something like your scenes can portray either/or which would allow you to swap. So you could have 2 stormtroopers as your subordinates in one episode and then next episode do a solo mission in a ship with a droid. As long as you never combined or went over your max you could switch between them episode to episode. And by limiting it to the episode you would then be able to post freebuilds filling out the story.

BTW love the good ideas and discussion going on!

[Yzalirk]

I know I'm still quite new to SoNE but I agree with everything I read here, especially about the lack of possibilities for characters.

I think that an almost open-world sort of thing would be better. I really wanted to either be a Bounty Hunter or "Space Merchant" since those professions appeal to me more than to be a mindless drone serving for the Empire. Hopefully nobody takes offense to this but in GoH, I love the possibilities for different characters people can have. I'll be honest and say that's why I'm hardly ever active here and the other reason being is that I feel like other people aren't active as well. I think it should be more like Heroica in the sense there are different professions your character be be in and join different factions. People in Heroica are very nice and active and that's what I want to see. Hopefully I'm not the only that feels this way...

[Jacob Nion]

I know I'm still quite new to SoNE but I agree with everything I read here, especially about the lack of possibilities for characters.

I think that an almost open-world sort of thing would be better. I really wanted to either be a Bounty Hunter or "Space Merchant" since those professions appeal to me more than to be a mindless drone serving for the Empire. Hopefully nobody takes offense to this but in GoH, I love the possibilities for different characters people can have. I'll be honest and say that's why I'm hardly ever active here and the other reason being is that I feel like other people aren't active as well. I think it should be more like Heroica in the sense there are different professions your character be be in and join different factions. People in Heroica are very nice and active and that's what I want to see. Hopefully I'm not the only that feels this way...

The problem with this is that everyone would like to be a bounty hunter or smuggler and the you have a hundred b i unty hunters against a douzen stormies.

I would like to have smaller competitions beside episodes. Like "expand nar eurbrikka" where players can builf houses or dioramas of the planet.

[GallardoLU]

An idea I just thought up is, base class types: Soldier, Spy, pilot. You pick one at start (or if implemented upon reorganizing the players) then a faction. As you level up you can pick new jobs/roles in that faction.

So a player would start similarly as we are already Soldier-Imperial (aka storm trooper) as the levels go up you'd be presented new "Specializations" so continuing the Soldier line, the next change could be Heavy weapons, proto weapons, or improvised weapons. Later vehicles (tanks, transports, and other ground units) and at the very top of the choices you get to pick between Freelance, Black OPs, and Experimental.

Freelancers still support original faction, so bounty hunters are not available to rebels, and smugglers are not available to Imperials (SWTOR, I feel got that right in a 2 faction system)

So the example tree would look like:

Soldier, Spy, Pilot

Soldier (Imperial):

T1 – Weapons: Heavy Weapons, Prototype Weapons, improvised Weapons

T2 – Vehicles: Armored Units, Artillery Units, High Mobility Units

T3 – Special job: Freelance (bounty hunter), Force Sensitive (not Sith/Jedi), and Experimental (Evo trooper type units)

Soldier (Rebel):

T1 – Weapons: Heavy Weapons, Prototype Weapons, improvised Weapons

T2 – Vehicles: Armored Units, Artillery Units, High Mobility Units

T3 – Special job: Freelance (Smuggler), Force Sensitive (not Sith/Jedi), and Black Ops

If you want I can supply the tree for the Spy, and Pilot as well.

The idea is that you have to have a T1 before a T2, and I’d like to see the choices enacted via a Freebuild. This keeps the more coveted roles hard to reach. Along with these individualized choices I feel we should keep the current ranks in place as guarantied advancements.

[Yzalirk]

The problem with this is that everyone would like to be a bounty hunter or smuggler and the you have a hundred b i unty hunters against a douzen stormies.

I would like to have smaller competitions beside episodes. Like "expand nar eurbrikka" where players can builf houses or dioramas of the planet.

Well then that's their decision. Personally, I'd be a either a Space Merchant, Con-Artist, or whatever Han Solo would be considered.

[Tariq j]

I quite like the idea of buying things for XP. Just an idea but perhaps we could have a general store for each episode.

For example, if the store had weapons and speeders to buy, and a player wanted one of those weapons or speeders for their Entry and/or freebuild they could use XP to purchase that particular item.

[Lord Tyrus]

I quite like the idea of buying things for XP. Just an idea but perhaps we could have a general store for each episode.

For example, if the store had weapons and speeders to buy, and a player wanted one of those weapons or speeders for their Entry and/or freebuild they could use XP to purchase that particular item.

THIS is a good idea, though what, for instance, would you do if say you didn't have the pieces for a speeder like the one you could buy, and would confuse other builds where builders have featured starships etc.

[Tariq j]

THIS is a good idea, though what, for instance, would you do if say you didn't have the pieces for a speeder like the one you could buy, and would confuse other builds where builders have featured starships etc.

Yes, while I was posting this idea the problem did occur to me. Other than Bricklink or PAB, another solution would be to allow the player to replace the piece they don't have with a similar piece.

For example, if a player purchased a speeder which included a 1x2 grill piece, which they didn't have, the player could replace that with a 1x2 tile. In other words, replacing the piece you don't have with a similar piece without taking away the original design.

[Jannik]

Apologies if I am misunderstanding what is being suggested here, but I don't like the idea of further limitations on what people can build until they have earned enough XP to pay for it. It is all sounding quite complicated, and I already find it a little difficult to think of suitable ideas for things to build. It is going to potentially be quite off putting for someone new, if for example they can't build a ship when most of the starwars lego is more suited to building ships.

[goatman461]

Apologies if I am misunderstanding what is being suggested here, but I don't like the idea of further limitations on what people can build until they have earned enough XP to pay for it. It is all sounding quite complicated, and I already find it a little difficult to think of suitable ideas for things to build. It is going to potentially be quite off putting for someone new, if for example they can't build a ship when most of the starwars lego is more suited to building ships.

I agree about not limiting new players. Especially with ships, these are the easiest thing for new builders to create because they don't require large numbers of the same type of part. We should be thinking about ways to expand what we can do, not limit it. For example, right now a builder's sigfig must be in all of their builds; if we allowed them NPCs, this would give their stories MORE options because the builder's original sigfig would not have to be forced into a scene that would be inappropriate because of rank or specialty.

I'm very much against any kind of structured template for what builders can create with the exception of the planet rule, which I think provides for incentive and competitiveness. Also, the only limit this rule would create is over the core planets that either side "wins" or "buys."

As for pirates, right now the structure doesn't restrict builders from using pirates or smugglers or whatever. Han Solo was a rebel (remember?) and a smuggler. Build's aren't restricted to the interior of an ISB or the Death Star. Just build in a marketplace, saloon, or opium den.

[Lord Vladivus]

I'm in agreement with Goatman- I would t like to be restricted in what I could build. More Npcs would be great!

[Lord Tyrus]

I'm in agreement with Goatman- I would t like to be restricted in what I could build. More Npcs would be great!

I'm starting to think that too. Although buying planets and NPCs would work. How about the more XP you've got, the less XP you earn, i.e: In an episode Player A earns 5xp bringing him to a total of, say, 12xp. Another player also earns 5xp but already has, say, 31xp, bringing him to a total of 36xp. The player with the less XP total earns a few bonus points:

Under 10XP - Extra 10XP per episode

10+ XP - Extra 8XP per episode

20+ XP - Extra 6XP per episode

30+ XP - Extra 4XP per episode

40+ XP - Extra 3XP per episode

50+ XP - Extra 2XP per episode

60+ XP - Extra 1XP per episode

75+ XP - No Extra XP

NOTE: This is just an example of an idea!

Edited January 19, 2015 by Lord Tyrus

[Disco86]

My only suggest would be to lower the XP bonus for the top builds in each episode. The current system makes it impossible to catch up for weaker builders.

Edited January 20, 2015 by BEAVeR
: Moved post to the feedback thread, as it is about the scoring system

[MstrOfPppts]

I'll do it here, not to further spam the ep. VIII thread ...

We are aware of the lack of privacy of both camps. Creating a hidden subforum isn't in our powers however (I think only root admins are able to do that). But we'd really like to help, so who knows, maybe in the future (don't quote me on that though) ? And please don't think we're ignoring the feedback thread. You see we already adopted some ideas from it. So please keep giving us feedback!

About keeping your tactics secret. A PM could be set up for each faction here players could communicate. However, there is a maximum on the amount of people that can participate in one and we dont want to spam people's mail boxes, so I would discourage that idea. However, maybe a good option would be to encrypt every message you post in the faction's thread. There are some sites on the internet that allow you to enter text and encrypt/decrypt it using a password. It could be possible to send a password to every member of a team, via PM.

I looked around a bit, and I think this website can offer a simple solution. Try decrypting this message with the password "example" ...

I guess the better way is to keep things simple rather than require some encription and extra work. Spaming someone's PM requires far less effort for one to delete it and noone can say he didn't get the message but can easily leave the conversation. Choosing the 50 active players can be easily done as it already was in a previous situation. Make it 35 and let others who wish to participate contact a moderator ... Yes I'm lazy and yes I refuse to talk tactics in public threads, but if that's OK with everyone else, it's OK with me too.

I'm not saying you're not reading the feedback thread, it's just that some things with major priority (for my taste) are taking waaaay to long. Where's the problam in contacting Bonaparte to create a subforum structure for SoNE with two hidden forums? Do you want me to do it? - just so that we don't all spam his PM ... or say that the staff has come to a conclusion that this is not neccessary and also try to explain why. The return feedback is very valuable and also shows staff's activity!

I really feel like a pain in the megablocks keep on bringing this up where the majority seems to be fine with it as it is, or noone just gives a megabluck. So sorry about that and I'll stop it for now untill things start moving.

[Kodan Black]

I do wish we had a SoNE freebuild subforum. The main SW forum tends to move pretty quickly so I feel like the freebuilds are moved off very quickly. It doesn't help when some new member signs up and spams 20 3-year old threads with "What a great build!"

The whole point of freebuilds is to further our character's story and gain feedback from other builders so we improve. If I have to hope that within the first couple hours I get all the comments I am going to get it is discouraging. And honestly I don't think most members not doing SoNE care that much about our freebuilds. Generalized SW MOCs are of interest but few freebuilds tie back to movies/shows and therefore they aren't going to really understand what they are about or feel connected to my character's progression.

If I'm honest the current setup feels like freebuilds are just about points because there is so little feedback and people aren't likely to go hunting for those specific threads. And while getting more points is part of the game, I don't spend days of time thinking about the build, the story, etc. just to get a few points. I'd rather have feedback so I can learn new techniques and improve.

If we can't do sub-sub-forums we could easily put it at the same level as Watto's Junkyard.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Kodan Black

[goatman461]

I think freebuilds in the regular forum allows us to advertise SoNE with a lot of Star Wars LEGO fans that would otherwise overlook us. Creating a subforum would further limit the number of comments you would get because casual lurkers wouldn't even open the subforum. However, if we added links to our SoNE builds to the player index page, that would allow an easy index for other builders to go through and comment on the builds or follow the character developments. An easy way to do this would be to allow each player to comment on the thread once and continually go back and edit his/her comment making it an index/profile of their character and builds.

[Kodan Black]

Of the last 25 freebuild threads there were 14 total comments by non-SoNE participants. And most of those were of the "looks cool" variety. I personally would be fine with losing those in order to make it easier on the SoNE participants to find and comment on them.

Over 156 comments in those threads. So basically over 90% of comments come from SoNE participants.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Kodan Black