Ragnarök Now Redux - Day One

[LegoDad]

While I was alive at the time of the first Ragnarok, I'm dead now (Lightning took me down, though I thought that conformation dinner yesterday came in a close second!), and ready to help rid this wonderous place of Loki servants!

While some of you know each other, don't consider all of us newly dead people evil; I may not know ye, but I'm going to do my best to help defend us Einherjar from the real evils.

As Helga also pointed out, why get defensive right away? Odd.

Well our conversation seems to be getting way off topic; although I will say that ox urine clearly isn't perfect, since you know...we're all here. I'm not saying...I'm just saying...

But the point is, talking about what could of stopped us from getting to this paradise is not so important--we need to talk about the people who want to get us out of paradise! (Close second topic of importance is beard-lenght). Now I wasn't here for the last Ragnarok; but I know some of you vikings were--so, do those vikings know anything that could help us here? How did the Servants of Loki act during the first Ragnarok? It's very possible there will be similarities, in some regard to the first Ragnarok.

While this could be harmless, it struck me a bit like fishing for some info that past players would have that newbs would not. Dufa and Snotra took issue with this as well, and they everybody's favorite vote right now came in and gave it a bit of a defense, which always bothers me.

Neither what Naemr nor Mist has said sits well with me; it's silly to suggest that this second redux'd Ragnarok shares similarities with the first, apart from certain einherjar who are back to get some more, you know what I mean?

Also, going a little meta, I recall a time when someone called Janice said something fairly obvious about not ragging on people who say "Day One" sorts of things, and a scummy scummo called Paris responded almost the exact way that Mist has just now:

So to wind up the most use of words Jarni use in Ragnarok so far, I'm willing to give Naemr a little slack for saying what I (and Janice) would call a "Day One" statement, so my suspcion mostly points at Mist, whose words suggest she may have been studying scummy scummo behaviour to learn some lessons for Ragnarok.

Why would we need ox piss poultices for our wounds? We will have all the boar we like when Ragnarok has concluded!

I feel the same way about these early defenses. Why come to someone's aid if you don't know their affiliation. If something needs clarified, ask for clarification, don't run to their side when they're being questioned. Mist defended herself of this, but it is what it is, a Day 1 defense of another player however you look at it.

How is it that I have not landed on any of the 'no poster' or 'low poster' lists? I was barely present and said nothing of value but yet no one noticed ... Am I invisible?

I can honestly say that I have absolutely no clue whom to vote for. there are a few individuals here which I have rarely/never crossed path with before and I find it very difficult to assess their allegiance. I find Wilhalm and Sigrid to be the oddest but that's probably just because I'm not used to their styles.

I feel like I'm speaking for the sake of speaking ... I honestly have nothing to say ... How embarrassing.

I'm not sure why you would come out and defend yourself against nothing? Though I do agree with you that Wilhalm is one of the oddest so far, but for different reasons. Sigrid's one (and only?) post was off the wall, wasn't sure what that was about at the beginning of the day.

It appears as if Mist is a good suspect at this time. While I agree that Jarni's comparison of her tactics to those of a Paris (beautiful village, I'd loot it any time) Shawty was not perfect, her response seemed to be a little too defensive. She tries blame to Jarni twice, accusing him of mincing words. At the end, she seems flustered. She gets to the point where she says "I don’t want to waste time roleplaying, but heck, let’s go for it if it means you’ll leave me alone." Not long after this, she runs off and says "I don't want to be throwing stones at people" after tossing a few in Jarni's direction.

Perhaps I'm misinterpreting things, but I see it as being overkill for a single post that challenges what she’s saying. Based off the information I have, I’m going to Vote: Mist (Mencot).

Agree with Dufa, seems like a forced vote. I've only felt weird about voting once, and I was on the Loki side of things.

Mainly, there hasn't been a whole lot that has REALLY stuck out, but there have been some little things that I have gone over above. I think Naemr, Mist, Wilhalm, and Chlodochar are acting the most "off" today. I don't want to get caught up in bandwagoning at this point, though, since we can change our vote and there is plenty of time if things need to change. I will Vote: Wilhalm Bloodaxe (Whitefang).

[fhomess]

I don't know if you've noticed (I certainly have) but I've been making lots of rune-transcription errors today. What I meant to say (and take it with a pinch of salt if you like) was:

"Yeah, IF the Library didn't show Mist to be a 'usual suspect' I'd have no hesitation voting for her"

Naemr and Mist always seem to be the "usual suspects" very early on in the game, and that's why, despite my suspicions, I have held off from voting.

I haven't noticed. I don't think it's appropriate to assume transcription errors, and they can be a rather big thing in terms of understanding what you're trying to say. I will take the salt. Perhaps a better way to get Naemr or Mist off your suspect list would have been to evaluate what they're really contributing. I know we base our opinions of people on past behavior, but the Servants of Loki will likely use that to their advantage as well. If not them, who do you think is the most suspicious?

[jimmynick]

I understand that my typo completely changed the meaning of what I said.

Setting aside Naemr and Mist for now, I find the Kolgrima-Petr combo alarming, because Kolgrima is paranoid that someone will think she's in with Petr and Petr's behaving fairly oddly. I'll vote now:

Vote: Petr the Half-Troll (PirateDave84)

[Rick]

Though I do agree with you that Wilhalm is one of the oddest so far, but for different reasons.

It seems like you forgot to add those reasons when voting for Wilhalm.

[LegoDad]

Finally, someone like Naemr is talking some sense here. Sad enough, I don't think we have any concrete information to sniff those scummy scums out...

It seems like you forgot to add those reasons when voting for Wilhalm.

This quote from Wilhalm defending and backing somebody that I find to be a bit scummy at this point bothered me. It didn't quote when multiquoting on my last post for some reason, though I was sure I selected it. Anyway, I have a handful that I have pointed out that could have gotten my vote at this point. Wilhalm drew the short stick for now.

[Captain Genaro]

Ah, look who came running shortly after I cast my vote. You've still told me everything I wanted to know even though you tried to hide your initial reaction.

The fact that you've rushed in here less than twenty minutes after I voted for you is a bit suspicious, however I'm willing to chalk that up to a coincidence.

I can understand you not wanting to vote for Mist, but your counter of voting for Snotra is really weak and confusing. You decide to vote for someone seemingly at random, claim to have learned everything, and then say that all you learned is that there might be a coincidence? Did I miss something? You don’t justify why you decided to target Snotra in the first place, don’t offer any opinion on the other debates, and haven’t shared what you learned about Snotra.

[MagPiesRUs]

Vote Count

Mist (Mencot): 5 votes (def, Hinckley, Captain Genaro, Waterbrick Down, Rick)

Wilhalm Bloodaxe (WhiteFang): 2 votes (Kristel, LegoDad)

Petr Half-Troll (Piratedave84): 2 votes (Captain Nemo, jamesn)

Naemr Sledgehammer (Captain Nemo): 1 vote (Scubacarrot)

Jarni Child-Sparer (jamesn): 1 vote (fhomess)

Snotra Carrotface (Scubacarrot): 1 vote (Bob)

Kolgrima the Deep-Minded (Kristel): 1 vote (Fugazi)

12 votes are required to lynch. 24 hours remain in the day.

[Hinckley]

Looking at the voting post so far the once voting for me are veteran players, so I guess they know what they are doing... Not

Helga (hinckley) you said my comment back then was vague but what do you do and some of the others who have vote for me do... Blow and hang up on some of my words.

Didn´t know that the word wise is banned and out of use, especially said somehow wrong... Look at this wise wiser wisest and your voting for me isn´t wise, based on anything else then fluff.

But I am not hidding or trying to throw stones on others to get you of my back. If you have some more questions for me or suspicons of me bring them on, I havn´t got anything to hide, I am an einherjar, like you... or actually I am an Valkyrie who fake my death to get here an become an einherjar.. but you already knew that part.

I originally found your comment weird but now it's clear that it's just your posting style. My concern with you is more about your defensiveness towards Jarni. You defended yourself but said that Jarni is "on your list of scummy scummos". Accusing your accuser. Yet when voting started, you said you had no case. Why not Jarni at that point? And what of the rest of this list of scummy scummos? Now your defense only consists of self-defense. You're not accusing anyone else which is usually what Scum do when being lynched so we have nothing to work off of later.

Then again, maybe nobody will be lynched. Almost half of us haven't voted yet with less than 24 hours left in the day.

[Kristel]

I don't know if you've noticed (I certainly have) but I've been making lots of rune-transcription errors today. What I meant to say ...

Convenient. Are you going to do this with everything until it is clear which way the wind is blowing?

Interestingly enough, I made a note in my little rune-book that you and Petr converge on the same ideas. Are you in cahoots? Feeling paranoid and trying to bus Petr?

The answer to the first question is no, unless he is an Einherjar, in which case I'm hoping he comes off his mushroom high soon. The second question is irrelevant because I am Einharjar.

I didn't appreciate Helga trying to associate Petr and me because I think Petr is acting like an idiot (that's the polite public version of what I was thinking when I read that post).

The reasons you quote are that Wilhalm is behaving just like in previous lives according to Tumi, and that Helga thinks there's not much one can read from that. I'm not sure how this adds up to Wilhalm being suspicious -- perhaps is it that you don't trust Helga and she happens to disagree with your suspicions about Wilhalm and Dagstyrr? Anyway, it looks to me like you're going for the easy targets that aren't around to defend themselves or won't defend themselves properly. This is something a Servant of Loki is more likely to do on Day One than getting in trouble trying to drown a fierce warrior. I know it's not much to go on, but such are the small things Day One votes are made of.

Uhm, no. The reason I voted for Wilhalm is because I felt his very first post of the day was forced and he isn't adding anything of value to the conversation.

Here is a link to the first post and his second post and my initial reasons if you need to refresh your memory.

And this is Wilhalm's third post:

Tumi, duh, I didn't realise I am in your bingo book. To add on, first day is quite unpredictable to be able to secure success in our day conviction, but that does not mean that we are unable to fend for ourselves to win this right. Just that we need to spend a little more efforts to find out what are the similar history that we can based on. I am not referring to the taboo metagaming thingy.

I didn't understand the reference to the bingo book, but overall, I felt this post also wasn't adding anything of value to the conversation.

And yes, I don't trust Helga. In fact, I don't trust anyone or anything at this point. Do you believe that I should just blindly trust whatever Helga has to say?

I'm also curious why you think Wilhalm is an easy target, and who you believe are the other easy targets that I've supposedly been going for so that I can defend myself? I think the only "easy target" here today is Mist, who several have been happy to bandwagon onto.

[Rick]

This quote from Wilhalm defending and backing somebody that I find to be a bit scummy at this point bothered me. It didn't quote when multiquoting on my last post for some reason, though I was sure I selected it. Anyway, I have a handful that I have pointed out that could have gotten my vote at this point. Wilhalm drew the short stick for now.

Petr said he thought Wilhalm (and Sigrid) were among the oddest. I don't remember him saying why he thought Wilhalm was odd. So I don't see how you can say your reasons are different (I haven't seen more than one reason from you by the way). I also don't see how Wilhalm was defending Naemr. He said he made "sense" (I don't agree with that and I've previously asked Wilhalm to explain that), but he certainly wasn't defending him, as he was the first to reply to Naemr.

You don't seem to be very sure of your vote and I'm left wondering why you picked Wilhalm out of your list of suspects, as your post seems to be building up to a vote for Naemr or even Jarno.

[Fugazi]

Uhm, no. The reason I voted for Wilhalm is because I felt his very first post of the day was forced and he isn't adding anything of value to the conversation.

Here is a link to the first post and his second post and my initial reasons if you need to refresh your memory.

And this is Wilhalm's third post:

I didn't understand the reference to the bingo book, but overall, I felt this post also wasn't adding anything of value to the conversation.

Very true, but that's typical of Wilhalm and it's what Pudding was trying to tell you. Not that anyone here is trying to defend Wilhalm -- just that his behaviour is typical and that in itself isn't a very good clue to his allegiance. On the other hand maybe you didn't care about his allegiance and are trying to get him lynched because he hasn't proved useful so far -- and this is what I call an 'easy target' for Scum. They can comfortably vote for silent or unhelpful Vikings since they know they can hardly be blamed the next day. But I'm not sure that pruning off the 'dead weight' is really a good town move unless nothing remotely suspicious comes up. My opinion of course.

And yes, I don't trust Helga. In fact, I don't trust anyone or anything at this point. Do you believe that I should just blindly trust whatever Helga has to say?

Obviously not. But the way I read it you used Helga's warning as an argument to vote for Wilhelm, which is contradictory.

I'm also curious why you think Wilhalm is an easy target, and who you believe are the other easy targets that I've supposedly been going for so that I can defend myself? I think the only "easy target" here today is Mist, who several have been happy to bandwagon onto.

As I mentioned above, it's difficult to defend oneself of being absent or unhelpful. Especially if you're absent. They're low-risk targets for Servants of Loki. You also dropped the name of Dagstyrr, which may or may not be a way to draw the attention on another low-flying Viking. Maybe it was just trying to find fault with Helga Pudding's list (if it was one), maybe it was something more. Mostly we only have gut feeling to rely on today, and my gut feeling tells me that focusing on Wilhalm at this point could be an attempt to throw dust in our eyes. Speaking of which...

Agree with Dufa, seems like a forced vote. I've only felt weird about voting once, and I was on the Loki side of things.

Mainly, there hasn't been a whole lot that has REALLY stuck out, but there have been some little things that I have gone over above. I think Naemr, Mist, Wilhalm, and Chlodochar are acting the most "off" today. I don't want to get caught up in bandwagoning at this point, though, since we can change our vote and there is plenty of time if things need to change. I will Vote: Wilhalm Bloodaxe (Whitefang).

You make it sound like you don't want to bandwagon because that's something Servants of Loki would do, and you would like to avoid looking like one... which doesn't convince me you aren't one in the first place. Do you think Wlihalm's behaviour odder that Chlodochar's and his 'forced' vote?

*is* odder

[TrumpetKing]

There's a lot of votes being scattered about today, and I find it interesting how people are calling out Chlodochar for having a really forced vote, and not really acting upon it. The one person who really sticks out to me is Lefsi Red-Shirt, who called out Cockroach and then quickly said he didn't want to bandwagon on anybody and voted for Wilhalm. Am I the only one who finds that odd?

The people that are sticking out to me and making me curious are:

-Mist - For being confusing and utterly odd

-Lefsi - For reasons above

-Crocodile or whatever the megabluck his name is - for his forced vote

-Wilhalm - for being unproductive when the dsay's nearly over

-Petr Half-Troll - must I elaborate here?

And lastly,

-Patrekr the Red, I know he's been here, but I don't recall him saying anything that actually sounded productive, as I only remember seeing him here earlier in the day. I could easily be wrong, though.

[Sisco]

Sigrid sat and listened to the events of the day unfold, her brow furrowing more and more as time went on. She didn't really want to vote for anyone, but one stood out as the most odd to her. So, she wrote down her vote on a slip of paper and passed it toward the front of the hall.

Vote: Mist (Mencot)

[Kristel]

Apologies upfront for having to make this a quick one. I have to go pillage for the next little while.

Very true, but that's typical of Wilhalm and it's what Pudding was trying to tell you. Not that anyone here is trying to defend Wilhalm -- just that his behaviour is typical and that in itself isn't a very good clue to his allegiance. On the other hand maybe you didn't care about his allegiance and are trying to get him lynched because he hasn't proved useful so far -- and this is what I call an 'easy target' for Scum. They can comfortably vote for silent or unhelpful Vikings since they know they can hardly be blamed the next day. But I'm not sure that pruning off the 'dead weight' is really a good town move unless nothing remotely suspicious comes up. My opinion of course.

Obviously not. But the way I read it you used Helga's warning as an argument to vote for Wilhelm, which is contradictory.

As I mentioned above, it's difficult to defend oneself of being absent or unhelpful. Especially if you're absent. They're low-risk targets for Servants of Loki. You also dropped the name of Dagstyrr, which may or may not be a way to draw the attention on another low-flying Viking. Maybe it was just trying to find fault with Helga Pudding's list (if it was one), maybe it was something more. Mostly we only have gut feeling to rely on today, and my gut feeling tells me that focusing on Wilhalm at this point could be an attempt to throw dust in our eyes. Speaking of which...

You make it sound like you don't want to bandwagon because that's something Servants of Loki would do, and you would like to avoid looking like one... which doesn't convince me you aren't one in the first place. Do you think Wlihalm's behaviour odder that Chlodochar's and his 'forced' vote?

*is* odder

There were a couple of things I wanted to point out:

• Whether or not he was active or around was not a factor in my vote. It was what he said and how he said it.
  
• I am wary of Helga. My gut is telling me not to trust her, so this may subconsciously have been a factor.
  
• The reason I raised Dagstyrr has already been discussed. I don't consider him a suspect and made this clear early on. It is Helga and Jarni (and now you, I guess), that keep bringing up Dagstyrr. I just wanted to hear from Helga about it.
  
• Chlodochar and Wary are both on the radar for their votes, but I am undecided whether it is lazy town or scum bandwagoning.
  

I've got to pillage now, but let me know if you want me further clarification on any of this.

[CMP]

Sigrid sat and listened to the events of the day unfold, her brow furrowing more and more as time went on. She didn't really want to vote for anyone, but one stood out as the most odd to her. So, she wrote down her vote on a slip of paper and passed it toward the front of the hall.

Vote: Mist (Mencot)

I'll be damned, Baulf was right.

[LegoDad]

Petr said he thought Wilhalm (and Sigrid) were among the oddest. I don't remember him saying why he thought Wilhalm was odd. So I don't see how you can say your reasons are different (I haven't seen more than one reason from you by the way). I also don't see how Wilhalm was defending Naemr. He said he made "sense" (I don't agree with that and I've previously asked Wilhalm to explain that), but he certainly wasn't defending him, as he was the first to reply to Naemr.

You don't seem to be very sure of your vote and I'm left wondering why you picked Wilhalm out of your list of suspects, as your post seems to be building up to a vote for Naemr or even Jarno.

I don't remember saying I had different reasons than Petr anywhere. I showed you what I found odd about him, not what someone else found odd. I call what Wilhalm did defending, you call it replying, we're arguing semantics at this point. I obviously found it more troubling than you did. No biggie.

Very true, but that's typical of Wilhalm and it's what Pudding was trying to tell you. Not that anyone here is trying to defend Wilhalm -- just that his behaviour is typical and that in itself isn't a very good clue to his allegiance. On the other hand maybe you didn't care about his allegiance and are trying to get him lynched because he hasn't proved useful so far -- and this is what I call an 'easy target' for Scum. They can comfortably vote for silent or unhelpful Vikings since they know they can hardly be blamed the next day. But I'm not sure that pruning off the 'dead weight' is really a good town move unless nothing remotely suspicious comes up. My opinion of course.

Obviously not. But the way I read it you used Helga's warning as an argument to vote for Wilhelm, which is contradictory.

As I mentioned above, it's difficult to defend oneself of being absent or unhelpful. Especially if you're absent. They're low-risk targets for Servants of Loki. You also dropped the name of Dagstyrr, which may or may not be a way to draw the attention on another low-flying Viking. Maybe it was just trying to find fault with Helga Pudding's list (if it was one), maybe it was something more. Mostly we only have gut feeling to rely on today, and my gut feeling tells me that focusing on Wilhalm at this point could be an attempt to throw dust in our eyes. Speaking of which...

You make it sound like you don't want to bandwagon because that's something Servants of Loki would do, and you would like to avoid looking like one... which doesn't convince me you aren't one in the first place. Do you think Wlihalm's behaviour odder that Chlodochar's and his 'forced' vote?

*is* odder

Joining the bandwagon IS something a Servant would do. I never said I didn't want to vote for her and made it clear I was open to changing votes if need be. To answer your question, yes, I do find Wilhalm more odd than Chlodochar as Chlodochar hasn't done much other than vote. Had it not been pointed out, I might not have taken note of it.

There's a lot of votes being scattered about today, and I find it interesting how people are calling out Chlodochar for having a really forced vote, and not really acting upon it. The one person who really sticks out to me is Lefsi Red-Shirt, who called out Cockroach and then quickly said he didn't want to bandwagon on anybody and voted for Wilhalm. Am I the only one who finds that odd?

The people that are sticking out to me and making me curious are:

-Mist - For being confusing and utterly odd

-Lefsi - For reasons above

-Crocodile or whatever the megabluck his name is - for his forced vote

-Wilhalm - for being unproductive when the dsay's nearly over

-Petr Half-Troll - must I elaborate here?

And lastly,

-Patrekr the Red, I know he's been here, but I don't recall him saying anything that actually sounded productive, as I only remember seeing him here earlier in the day. I could easily be wrong, though.

I called out several people. I can't vote for them all today. I made it plainly clear I was open to voting for anybody on my list but avoided voting for Mist(at this time) because I knew I'd be called out for bandwagoning. It appears I can't win either way. What I find really odd is that we both seem to have the exact same people on our radar, yet somehow you don't agree with how I'm doing it as opposed to how you are. I answered your question about me and Chlodochar above. He's not the highest on my list right now, but felt his voting needed mentioning again, but wasn't worthy of my vote right now.

[jimmynick]

It is Helga and Jarni (and now you, I guess), that keep bringing up Dagstyrr. I just wanted to hear from Helga about it.

That's an unfair characterisation of what I've said about Dagstyrr. I only invoked his name to make a point about relatively inactive players.

Sigrid sat and listened to the events of the day unfold, her brow furrowing more and more as time went on. She didn't really want to vote for anyone, but one stood out as the most odd to her. So, she wrote down her vote on a slip of paper and passed it toward the front of the hall.

Vote: Mist (Mencot)

Any reasons? Are you going to share with us? The rules don't say you have to vote, you know.

[Rick]

I don't remember saying I had different reasons than Petr anywhere.

Bad memory?

Though I do agree with you that Wilhalm is one of the oddest so far, but for different reasons.

I call what Wilhalm did defending, you call it replying, we're arguing semantics at this point. I obviously found it more troubling than you did. No biggie.

It's much more than semantics. Wilhalm was the first to reply to Naemr. No one else had commented on his statement yet, so how can he be defending what he said? Defending from what or whom?

[jimmynick]

Chlodochar hasn't done much other than vote.

It was a mighty-odd vote, though, yes?

[TrumpetKing]

I never said you were doing it the wrong way. You just haven't been very vocal, which you did explain, and then suddenly came out of the blue with a vote for Wilhalm when you were just talking about Chocolate (I think that's his name).

Mist is suspicious, but I worry that she's just having a hard time communicating, like she normally does. Chlodochar is somebody I feel much more comfortable voting for under the current situation with his forced vote, but Lefsi and Petr are both close behind on my suspicions.

Oh, and Sigrid for not providing reason for her vote, but I feel like we have better options out there.

Vote: Chlodochar (Captain Genaro)

[def]

In light of Mist's totally baffling posts, I'm thinking he's actually just struggling to communicate with us, rather than dupe us. I don't read him as town, but the scum reading is not so strong.

Unvote: Mist (Mencot)

You make it sound like you don't want to bandwagon because that's something Servants of Loki would do, and you would like to avoid looking like one... which doesn't convince me you aren't one in the first place. Do you think Wlihalm's behaviour odder that Chlodochar's and his 'forced' vote?

*is* odder

This pings me hard. I was thinking about Chrocdahr for his lazy vote, but this is a very standard scum tactic: Don't vote for the leading vote-getter and make a point of letting people know about it. No blood on their hands, and it becomes a defence later on.

Vote: Lefsi (Legodad)

Later on in the day, I am willing to change my vote, depending on whether a lynch can be reached or not. I think it's crucial we get a lynch.

[Sisco]

Any reasons? Are you going to share with us? The rules don't say you have to vote, you know.

OOC: D'oh!

Sigrid reconsidered her vote, and decided that there simply wasn't enough evidence that she was comfortable with to vote for anyone today.

Unvote: Mist (Mencot)

[def]

OOC: D'oh!

Sigrid reconsidered her vote, and decided that there simply wasn't enough evidence that she was comfortable with to vote for anyone today.

Unvote: Mist (Mencot)

Pinging this one too.

[CMP]

Pinging this one too.

I wish it were a ping in my eyes. It looks like more like she's admitting she's not going to be of any help at all, period.

Vote: Sigrid (Sisco).

Maybe this will get her talking writing, gesturing, whatever. You're not going to be of any help in this state, Sigrid.

[Sisco]

Sigrid found herself a piece of paper and began to write.

What exactly am I supposed to do? I don't see any evidence to convict anyone at this time. It's the first day. Give me some evidence and I'll be of more use.