Scubacarrot Posted December 26, 2013 Posted December 26, 2013 (edited) For now, Guts figured it'd be best if the party dealt with the mood so that at least no one would leave, and the remaining party members tried to appease the ones, and get them to peacefully leave. It wouldn't hurt to make as many guesses as possible. Guess Chaotic Evil Marga. The raider then tried to influence her in a Lawful manner. "Surely, wise clanleader, there is no reason to harbour this grudge against humans, it's pointless. There are too many of us, we are divided, we breed like rabbits, we die young... To blame humans for everything would not be logical." Guess True Neutral Jaret. Guts walked over to the human, and tried to influence him in a good manner. "You haven't said too much, as a human amongst orcs, what are your solutions for the problem at hand?" Negotiations Order: Guts Guts Thormanil Thormanil Dyric Alexis Alexis Alexandre Alexandre Haldor Edited December 27, 2013 by Scubacarrot
swils Posted December 26, 2013 Posted December 26, 2013 (edited) I should really go back and take a few notes, it'll make this a lot easier! "Let's try 'n keep everyone level headed for now. Don't wanna risk havin' three leaders storm off at once, so try and keep at most two of 'em at any given temperament." Thormanil sidles up to Tarvalk, with the intention of sewing some seeds of chaos. "Tarvalk, m'names Thormanil and this here's Arx. He's but a little one now, but just imagine a while down the road: he's gonna be a force to be reckoned with! Not unlike an angry orcish horde, I'd bet. I'd wager you could rally the support of all the clans for a true showing of force and have that thing down by morning. The High Kingdoms wouldn't dare infringe on your territory after that, would they?" Shouting across the table to Karstaal, hoping to leave a bad taste in his mouth, "I said it before and I think they're kinda right, Karstaal, but you're going awfully far to replace your own traditions and culture with that of the High Kingdoms. It's a bloody history but it's your history. There's a great deal of respect built around it. The Kingdoms couldn't hope to match the strength of a warrior-bred horde." Was typing while you posted, Scuba. I can adjust if you see fit. Edited December 26, 2013 by swils
The Legonater Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 Guess true neutral Garohn. Dyric spotted him in the crowd and walked to him, trying to influence him in a lawful matter. Greetings. You are one of the Ironshins, are you not? You are a bit of a legend among my family. We are a family of royal guards ourselves. As such, of course, it is our duty to do what we can for our kingdoms. Yet we are soldiers, are we not? Ours is not to question orders, but to remain neutral and willing to carry them out, no? I hope I'm doing this right.
CMP Posted December 27, 2013 Author Posted December 27, 2013 I hope I'm doing this right. Yeah, you all seem to get the idea of it. Just remember, you can't change a guess (and another player can't guess the alignment of the same Clanmeet member) until it's been tested.
swils Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 So will Guts' guesses go through after he influences them (assuming no one doubles up on those NPCs), but before the random shift, or after the random shift?
CMP Posted December 27, 2013 Author Posted December 27, 2013 (edited) So will Guts' guesses go through after he influences them (assuming no one doubles up on those NPCs), but before the random shift, or after the random shift? They have to be on the guessed alignment after everything's said and done in a round, so after the shift. You've got to plan ahead. Edited December 27, 2013 by CallMePie
swils Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 Ahh okay so the shift occurs at the end of/during a round, not at the start of a new one. Gotcha. Guess: True Neutral Tarvalk Guess: True Neutral Karstaal Cross your fingers for a neutral roll, folks. Heh.
Capt.JohnPaul Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 Ooc: sorry, the holidays are making me busy with family and I'm on mobile right now. Alexandre tries to influence General Tarok and Pointed crown in a lawful good way.
Masked Builder Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 Alexis goes over to General Gor. She takes a seat next to him and puts her arm around him. "So General, you've been quiet today, what do you want this meeting to result in?" She turns to Tarknal. "You are the wise elder here surely you have some influence?" Gor guess Neutral Good. Tarknal guess True Good.
CMP Posted December 27, 2013 Author Posted December 27, 2013 Ooc: sorry, the holidays are making me busy with family and I'm on mobile right now. Alexandre tries to influence General Tarok and Pointed crown in a lawful good way. Alexis goes over to General Gor. She takes a seat next to him and puts her arm around him. "So General, you've been quiet today, what do you want this meeting to result in?" She turns to Tarknal. "You are the wise elder here surely you have some influence?" Gor guess Neutral Good. Tarknal guess True Good. That's fine CJP. You can only influence in one direction, though - you can't influence people in a lawful good, it's either lawful OR good. Masked, there's no true good alignment. And you haven't chosen to influence anyone, which is entirely feasible, but I'm not sure if you meant to or not.
Scubacarrot Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 (edited) Ooc: I think there are two ways CMP could have gone about this puzzle, which it is, either every character has one of the nine alignments, or they can overlap, in which case most would probably be neutral with maybe 1-3 evil and a bunch of differences on the chaotic-lawful spectrum. I would like everyone to make as many guesses, that fit up to what they will be at the end of the round. So swils, maybe you want to change your guesses to Tarvalk and Karstaal both being Chaotic Neutral to reflect that? Also Legonator please change your guess for that as well. Also CJP, Scorpiox and MB I would like you to finish your actions with guesses and influences as well please if none come: Haldor guesses Chaotic Neutral on Bastala. CJP and MB, as it stands, Helrak leaves the table. We don't want that obviously. Also, CJP, you're messing up the guesses of other people. Please change it. Boldened how it is at the moment, other color what I would like differently. Guts influences Marga lawful > will turn Neutral Evil > Atmosphere: Chaotic > will turn Chaotic Evil > Guts guesses Chaotic Evil Guts influences Jaret Good > will turn Lawful Neutral > Atmosphere: Chaotic > will turn True Neutral > Guts guesses True Neutral Thormanil influences Tarvalk Chaotic > will turn True Neutral > Atmosphere: Chaotic > will turn Chaotic Neutral > suggest guess Chaotic Neutral Thormanil influences Karstaal Evil > will turn True Neutral > Atmosphere: Chaotic > will turn Chaotic Neutral > suggest guess Chaotic Neutral Dyric influences Garohn Lawful > will turn True Neutral > Atmosphere: Chaotic > will turn Chaotic Neutral > suggest guess Chaotic Neutral Sugg est Alexis influences General Gor Lawful> Will turn Lawful Neutral > Atmosphere: Chaotic > will turn True Neutral > Alexis Guesses True Neutral Suggest Alexis influences Tarknal Evil > Will turn Lawful Neutral > Atmosphere: Chaotic > will turn True Neutral > Alexis Guesses True Neutral Suggest Alexandre influences Helrak lawful twice, will turn Lawful Good > Atmosphere Chaotic > Will turn Neutral Good> Alexandre guesses Neutral Good Haldor influences Bastala Good > will turn True neutral > Atmosphere: Chaotic > will turn Chaotic Neutral > suggest guess Chaotic Neutral Edited December 27, 2013 by Scubacarrot
Scorpiox Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 Haldor guesses Chaotic Neutral for Bastala.
swils Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 I was assuming there'd be no overlaps, but that's just my guess. To be honest, I feel like we might be better off not guessing this first round. I think we're supposed to get hints to their alignment from their responses, so it really might be in our best interests to simply not guess at all until we see how they react to our nudging them in a given direction. There's two parts to every guess and we have no way of knowing if Pie will confirm whether one of those is right if the other isn't. So all it takes is for us to mis-guess and then we're stuck testing that theory. It'll probably be easier to spend our first turn or two getting everyone safe from the edges (so that no one has a 2/5 chance to storm off) and then nudging NPCs one at a time towards a given guess while also keeping everyone else near the neutral zone.
Scubacarrot Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 I think you misunderstand. There is no random element IN the round. The random element happens before each round, and we can work from that.
swils Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 2. If they end the round in which the atmosphere shifts towards Lawful in a Lawful mood, yes, they will be out of the spectrum. But you have that entire round to influence them Chaotically to prevent it. Take this round for example, it'd be in your best interest to influence Helrak, Garohn, and Marga lawfully to keep them within the spectrum. Au contraire, though that's what I initially thought as well.
Scubacarrot Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 You're still misunderstanding. Look at what I suggested, as it stands WE KNOW what everyone will be at the end of the round, yes? The guesses happen at the end of the round, also, yes? So why not guess that?
swils Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 Help me fix my logic, then.. As I read the quote, if we leave someone in a Lawful state at the end of all our actions, and the shift for that round is towards Lawful, then they would be super-lawful and thus fall out of the spectrum. It wouldn't make sense for them to fall out of the spectrum if the alignment-shift being referred to occurred at the start of the round, pushed them to lawful (or was neutral and left them lawful), and we didn't bother with their lawful/chaotic alignment through our actions that round. Of course, if at the start of the next round, the shift was towards Lawful again, we would have to nudge them back towards neutral before the end of the round, but that's an entirely different scenario than "If they end the round lawful and there's a lawful shift that round"
Scubacarrot Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 (edited) I'm reading it no other way than the shift happens during the round. There'd be no reason for the chaotic shift this round and Pie's example that way. Unless I'm missing something, which is entirely possible. Edited December 27, 2013 by Scubacarrot
swils Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 Managed to ninja my post in between yours. As I understand it, the rounds go Actions>Shift>Guesses.
Scubacarrot Posted December 27, 2013 Posted December 27, 2013 Managed to ninja my post in between yours. As I understand it, the rounds go Actions>Shift>Guesses. Yes, but that shift is not rolled for then as random, for this round, we KNOW it is a Chaotic change.
swils Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 Why isn't the face-into-brick-wall emoticon on the quick list? You're entirely right. I missed/misread the bit about the alignment getting chosen at the start of the round, but applied after the actions. Thomanil guesses Chaotic Neutral for Tarvalk & Karstaal.
Capt.JohnPaul Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 Alexandre influences Helrack LAWFUL twice... then guesses Neutral Good.
The Legonater Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 swils, don't worry. I was vastly confused about Scuba's comment until you two talked it out. I guess Garohn Chaotic Neutral.
Masked Builder Posted December 28, 2013 Posted December 28, 2013 Alexis tries to influence Tarknal with Evil, and guesses True Neutral. She tries to influence Gor with Lawful, and guesses True Neutral. I'm still confused as to how exactly this works, but I can do what you want.
CMP Posted December 28, 2013 Author Posted December 28, 2013 (edited) I see what you're all doing now....devious. Round One of Aggressive Negotiations Guts guesses Marga is Chaotic Evil Guts influences Marga Lawfully Guts guesses Jaret is True Neutral Guts influences Jaret in a Good way Thormanil influences Tarvalk Chaotically Thormanil influences Karstaal in an Evil way Thormanil guesses Tarvalk is Chaotic Neutral Thormanil guesses Karstaal is Chaotic Neutral Dyric influences Garohn in Lawfully Dyric guesses Garohn is Chaotic Neutral Alexis influences Tarknal in an Evil way Alexis guesses Tarknal is True Neutral Alexis influences Gor Lawfully Alexis guesses Gor is True Neutral Alexandre influences Helrak Lawfully Alexandre influences Helrak Lawfully Alexandre guesses Helrak is Neutral Good Haldor influences Bastala in a Good way Haldor guesses Bastala is Chaotic Neutral Everyone is influenced Chaotically All guesses Incorrect Current Atmosphere: Neutral Bastala: Chaotic Neutral Garohn: Chaotic Neutral General Gor: True Neutral Helrak: Neutral Good Jaret: True Neutral Karstaal: Chaotic Neutral Marga: Chaotic Evil Tarknal: True Neutral Tarvalk: Chaotic Neutral Haldor pushed his way through the crowd until he neared the lightly-skinned Bastala, hoping to influence her in a good manner. "Hail there, missy. Mind if I talk? That is if my inferior norse and human presence don't repulse you too much. Are these meetings always so... enthusiastic? I reckon you've been to a fair few of the things, strong, capable girl like you is bound to know what's what. Since you seem to handle yourself so confidently, do you reckon you could fill me in on some of the other folks we've got here? You know, who are the type to likely knock my block off just for stepping near? And who is as reasonable and accepting as you? D'you get what I'm saying? I'd rather not have to waste time pissing off a bloke for my humanity when I could be spending it cheerfully with a delightful and authoritative leader who deserves my respect." He adopted what he imagined to be a winning smile. Bastala's face stretched into its own thin pink smile at Haldor's words. "Of course not! Superiority is all relative to what you are, though in any case I respect all races - those that interest me, anyway. If by enthusiastic you mean one great big clusterfuck of misplaced glory and age-old grudges, well, again, this is relative. Compared to today's Clanmeet? No. Tempers are simply exploding over this whole bridge nonsense. Few here have their arms open wide as mine to other races. If they want to be idiots about it, fine, let them. I'm not responsible for their clans. Avoid Marga. This is the first Clanmeet I've attended where she's yet to bitch about my color. Really now, do you find any fault with it? It's better than that hideous murky green leather she calls skin. You know Nord, we've been talking here for less than a minute and you already seem more pleasant than everyone else here. They're just a stuck-up lot of elitist snobs. But you, I like." Bastala winks at Haldor and sips her wine. Guess Chaotic Evil Marga. The raider then tried to influence her in a Lawful manner. "Surely, wise clanleader, there is no reason to harbour this grudge against humans, it's pointless. There are too many of us, we are divided, we breed like rabbits, we die young... To blame humans for everything would not be logical." Guess True Neutral Jaret. Guts walked over to the human, and tried to influence him in a good manner. "You haven't said too much, as a human amongst orcs, what are your solutions for the problem at hand?" Marga's fierce eyes narrowed at Guts. "True that your kind is broken and shattered, fit only for sacrifice in the name of the Destroyer. I hold whatever grudges I will for such an inferior race, I will blame the swine you call kin for the doom you brought upon orocund, the orc kind, and I refuse to let you pester my race any further. Begone, sarkuun, before I'm tempted to revive more of our old ways." Jaret merely glanced at the raider as he approached, keeping his eyes on the orcs. "I have no interest in solving the problems of these people, only better the interests of those I represent." His eyes linger on Bastala, and darken. "Though perhaps removing some of the more glaring issues at hand would achieve both." Thormanil sidles up to Tarvalk, with the intention of sewing some seeds of chaos. "Tarvalk, m'names Thormanil and this here's Arx. He's but a little one now, but just imagine a while down the road: he's gonna be a force to be reckoned with! Not unlike an angry orcish horde, I'd bet. I'd wager you could rally the support of all the clans for a true showing of force and have that thing down by morning. The High Kingdoms wouldn't dare infringe on your territory after that, would they?" Shouting across the table to Karstaal, hoping to leave a bad taste in his mouth, "I said it before and I think they're kinda right, Karstaal, but you're going awfully far to replace your own traditions and culture with that of the High Kingdoms. It's a bloody history but it's your history. There's a great deal of respect built around it. The Kingdoms couldn't hope to match the strength of a warrior-bred horde." "No. Destroying this bridge would delay the inevitable. Marga thinks it would be wise, but she fails to understand the drive of the humans on the other side of it. The tales of the war resonate ever within my mind, as they do no doubt with the bordering kingdoms. There will be a great battle between our two kinds, it cannot be avoided. I say let them finish the bridge." His voice lowers. "And then before so much as a single man sets foot upon it, we strike. I will not let them endanger the lives of every orc in Baltarok. Better they fear for their own than us." Karstaal looks at Thormanil and sighs, taking a long drag upon his pipe. "You overestimate the fear of the Kingdoms and the size of our armies. We are smaller in number, and though stronger in resolve, it would not be an easy fight. Worse yet, scaring our enemies into submissions would discourage interaction between our races, even on the off-chance it does stave off full-scale conflict. I at least would like to be an amicable enough people to have war with, I don't want to see our men razing the homes of the innocent in the name of an ancient god." Guess true neutral Garohn. Dyric spotted him in the crowd and walked to him, trying to influence him in a lawful matter. Greetings. You are one of the Ironshins, are you not? You are a bit of a legend among my family. We are a family of royal guards ourselves. As such, of course, it is our duty to do what we can for our kingdoms. Yet we are soldiers, are we not? Ours is not to question orders, but to remain neutral and willing to carry them out, no? Garohn speaks gruffly, yet quietly. "Indeed. It should be so, anyway. Yet...I cannot help but feel...uneasy, about my clan leader. Now I don't pay heed to these useless rumors. Mine is a view few share, but I don't care of what kind you are so long as you do your job well. And I would protect Bastala to the death. It's simply...I do not know if she should be in charge. The business with Grishnod, I mean, no doubt you've heard of it. Vikings slip in during the night to steal one man? That is not who they are, I've slain those pillaging filth by the dozens. I failed Grishnod that day. It is a thing I will never forgive myself for. But there is something more to it. There was no ransom. No message. Those vikings wanted him for a reason." He pauses, and leans back, fingering the head of his axe. "And yet despite all this, life goes on. My duty is more important than ever before." Edited December 28, 2013 by CallMePie
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