Chromeknight Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) Nerwen, astride the horse and regaled as a paladin, spoke clearly for all the heroes to hear. Our party is charged to protect the bridge and to keep it standing. The bridge is the work of King Valentino, who had been a prisoner of some of the orcs before being exchanged through the work of those accompanying the circus. The Kingdom forces are currently being led by his son, David, under the influence of an apostate paladin who has been speaking words of fear to him. Words such as there is a large orc force moving toward the kingdom, planning to invade, you must stop them and at a last resort, cast down the bridge to prevent them crossing. We will stand against the Paladin and against the casting down of the bridge. Haldor. You cannot say join our side without explaining who your side is. You mention Kingdom forces, was it a King in black armour and a General with a red lizard shield? Dyric, what is your fear? Mistress Cinna, perhaps you might speak up and detail your adventures, shine light into this murky situation. Speaking in a quieter voice to Guts, though still loud enough to be heard by those listening she replied, Such a party went without our knowledge. If we had known before it crossed, we would have stood in it's path. I do not dispute the Kingdoms' guilt in this, it sounds like a thing Raguel would order. The bridge is not intended as a threat, but as a path of trade between Baltarok and the Kingdoms. I do not defend the High Kingdoms, as I said, the advisor to the prince is false and steeped in fear. And I will stand against any Kingdoms forces crossing under arms in order to violate sovereign territory of Baltarok. But I would expect the orcs not to cross under arms either, lest they prove true the lies of the fallen paladin. Edited April 12, 2014 by Chromeknight
Scubacarrot Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 Guts narrowed his eyes. "Nerwen." She looked different. As her letter had said. "If you stand against this Paladin, and don't want the bridge to be destroyed, does that mean you will let the armies of Baltarok pass?"
Chromeknight Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 Pass? where to? There is nothing on that side except the sovereign land of the High Kingdoms. Haldor would have us stand with the side being invaded, but you are proposing that the Kingdoms suffer such a fate.
Scubacarrot Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 But I would expect the orcs not to cross under arms either, lest they prove true the lies of the fallen paladin. "How you can expect them not to cross? How can you expect peace of them? I was there at Imaestym. The fire, the smoke, the bodies. The Kingdoms, even if it was just a part, committed an atrocity, and this very bridge was as much the tool of their destruction as their swords. There is already war." Guts had to laugh, there was no way to fix this at this point, not after the attack.
Chromeknight Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) Nerwen's voice rang I do not deny their guilt. I deny that payment in kind is the right solution. Or if there must be death, let it fall on the one who ordered the atrocity, not on the innocent who had no part in it. Otherwise you invalidate your claim that the innocent of Imaestym deserve recognition and make them merely another footnote in a long bloody history. Drawing breath she continued As for the bridge, yes it was used for evil. That does not make the thing itself evil. Fire can be used to cook meat or burn villagers, Horses can be used to pull carts of food or carry Knights who pillage, Gold can be bring relief to the orphaned or pay soldiers who kill. Each of these things have many uses, it is those who use them, not the thing that is to be judged. I say the bridge stands. But you would use the bridge for the same evil you accuse the Kingdoms of? How are you any better. Let the dead of Imaestym claim some other price, not one that turns their innocence to guilt. Edited April 12, 2014 by Chromeknight
StickFig Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) We will stand against the Paladin and against the casting down of the bridge. I do not deny their guilt. I deny that payment in kind is the right solution. Or if there must be death, let it fall on the one who ordered the atrocity, not on the innocent who had no part in it... But you would use the bridge for the same evil you accuse the Kingdoms of? How are you any better. Let the dead of Imaestym claim some other price, not one that turns their innocence to guilt. Matthias speaks up, but with little hope. "If this is the work of but one evil advisor, can we not deliver him to the Orcs to pay for his crimes? Our party has at least some influence on King Valentino - considering we saved his life - plus one orcish clan and Guts' party seems to have a relationship with one other. Perhaps we can convince them to accept this paladin and avert war?" Edited May 13, 2014 by nstickney
CMP Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 But you would use the bridge for the same evil you accuse the Kingdoms of? How are you any better. Let the dead of Imaestym claim some other price, not one that turns their innocence to guilt. "We're not out here to kill innocents," snapped Olmstyr. "We're here to kill the soldiers that stood back and let this happen, and to free those of us who remain enslaved by inheritance."
Purpearljellyblob Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 "I am with the orcs if it comes down to the wire. Hweyrt, a subject of King Valentino, hired the circus to hire us to save his King. Upon completion of the task, we got ditched. The High Kingdoms have shown their true self in face of dire situations. Hweyrt only cared about things that benefited him most and nothing else. Hweyrt paid off the circus, took King Valentino back and sealed the bridge. Now that's some hospitality and gratitude we got for saving his King. King Valentino, a leader of men, clearly valued his safety over everyone else's. Not once did he express some sort of gratitude for saving his dear life by suggesting that we should be escorted to someplace safer. Being stuck in the middle of the bridge isn't the safest place to be honest. As a leader, he lacked the capacity to care for other sentient beings. Clearly, Hweyrt and King Valentino are self centered and have put their immediate interests over everything else. After all the hard work, after having close encounters with death itself, the circus and our party are being double crossed by people from the High Kingdoms, who possesses some sort of limitations in their view of the world. In contrast, Grishnod also had every opportunity to use King Valentino's lifeless head to instil fear through the ranks of High Kingdoms before the war, but he didn't. Even though time and time again, our party and the circus acted against his will, he has put revenge and spite aside for honour and compassion. Grishnod has transcended his own personal desires and has replaced them with the array of duties and values that a true leader should be upholding."
Scubacarrot Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) "Everyone that had a part of the attack is dead or captured, we made sure of that." More likely dead. "Where one attack was, there will be more. One city was burned, only a few left. What's there to stop the next attack, I wonder? Will the orcs ever be free from the yoke of the High Kingdoms? The High Kingdoms are a bunch of scared old man that control too many soldiers, if the orcs don't attempt to set things right now, when will they? When will the slaves be released, when will they get their vengeance? There was no war for centuries, and now this bridge is there and it is all kicking off. I don't like this idea of war any more than you do, Nerwen, but it's not up to choice at this point." It was all the bridge's fault, Guts sighed. Who was the idiot that figured it would be a good idea? Edited April 12, 2014 by Scubacarrot
Chromeknight Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 Listening to the gnome's words, Nerwen inclines her head. Such a solution I would gladly accept. I believe it solves all the issues raised. The bridge remains standing, the innocent of Imaestym are avenged on their persecutor and the apostate paladin is removed from causing further harm.
Scubacarrot Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) "Do you expect the Orcs to be content with a single old man's head while thousands are widowed, orphaned and broken?" Guts scowled. "There was one Orc Leader that would have done anything for peace, would have accepted that. The High Kingdom's men mortally wounded him." Edited April 12, 2014 by Scubacarrot
StickFig Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) "I am with the orcs if it comes down to the wire." "Everyone that had a part of the attack is dead or captured, we made sure of that." ... "When will the slaves be released, when will they get their vengeance?" Such a solution I would gladly accept. I believe it solves all the issues raised. The bridge remains standing, the innocent of Imaestym are avenged on their persecutor and the apostate paladin is removed from causing further harm. "There was one Orc Leader that would have done anything for peace, would have accepted that. The High Kingdom's men mortally wounded him." "I agree with Purpearl's assessment of the orcs as the more honorable of those here, but there is no such thing as right vengeance. I'm for freeing the slaves and sending this paladin to the orcs' justice, but vengeance is a step too far. Perhaps in the name of this peaceful orc leader we can persuade all sides to accept peace." Edited May 13, 2014 by nstickney
CMP Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 Listening to the gnome's words, Nerwen inclines her head. Such a solution I would gladly accept. I believe it solves all the issues raised. The bridge remains standing, the innocent of Imaestym are avenged on their persecutor and the apostate paladin is removed from causing further harm. "I agree with Purpearl's assessment of the orcs as the more honorable of those here, but there is no such thing as right vengeance. I'm for freeing the slaves and sending this paladin to the orcs' justice, but vengeance is a step too far. Perhaps in the name of this peaceful orc leader we can persuade all sides to accept peace." "And this army you have here? When we kill their leader, you expect them to just go home and forget all about this? If you killed an orc chieftain, you would have all his clan's might brought down on you. Are humans any different?" "Don't tell me you think killing one man is going to just end centuries of conflict. The Kingdoms made that very mistake when they had Tarokai killed."
StickFig Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) "And this army you have here? When we kill their leader, you expect them to just go home and forget all about this? If you killed an orc chieftain, you would have all his clan's might brought down on you. Are humans any different?" "No, humans are no different," the gnome admits, "nor are gnomes - although my people might not fight if they could make better money otherwise. I do not expect that soldiers on the Kingdoms side of the bridge will all go home if their leader is killed. I believe our hope for peace there is King Valentino. If only he can regain control of his son and his people - which is one more reason we must remove the paladin from power." The gnome looks around at his comrades, the other Heroicans, and the two armies bent on destruction. "I have made my decision - I will not assist either side in a war; I will fight to remove the paladin and that is all." Edited May 13, 2014 by nstickney
Chromeknight Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 "We're not out here to kill innocents," snapped Olmstyr. "We're here to kill the soldiers that stood back and let this happen, and to free those of us who remain enslaved by inheritance." Nerwen turned on the orc and spoke brusqely Do your troops follow your orders? If so, who has the responsibility to order them well, you or themselves? Are you going to gently question each soldier to ask if they even knew this happened and only take those who did? As for you slavery the only way you can be free is to stand up. Do not be like your oppressors but be better than them. Say to your people, who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice: In the process of gaining our rightful place, we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again, we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force. Turning to the younger elf she said. I agree with you, in that this Grishnod sounds a better person than those on this side, though I am not surprised Heweyrt closed the bridge, what with armies encamping at each end. He wants this sorted out. By us. Let us see if your Grishnod can continue in the same way and rise above the violence that swirls here. Nerwen wheeled her horse, facing Guts again. Stifling the urge to slap him upside the back of his thick bald skull she swallowed once to calm her words. What is there to stop the next attack? I am. I stand here on this bridge and deny passage to those that want to cross to harm others. The attack after that? If this foolishness is stopped perhaps there will not be one. Will the Orcs be free? Only when they stand up, and think of themselves as free. The chains they wear are not on their wrists and ankles but on their minds and their beliefs. I agree, now is the time to set things right. To begin a new era, but the way to do that is not by following the old hatreds, not by reliving the same old past. I tell you the thirst for vengeance is a slavery more deadly than any. It binds with chains stronger than iron and kills all who drink it. Letting the orcs past will not release them from slavery, it will entangle them tighter still. Yes the Kingdoms are scared, they are old and there are too many soldiers. But the way to reduce soldiers is not to kill them, that only makes more. The way to get rid of soldiers is to have them leave for having nothing to do, no one to fight. Nerwen stretched. I have said much. I will let others speak and then speak again later.
Purpearljellyblob Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 I believe our hope for peace there is King Valentino..." "That would be ideal, but I have little hope in that regard."
CMP Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 Do your troops follow your orders? If so, who has the responsibility to order them well, you or themselves? Are you going to gently question each soldier to ask if they even knew this happened and only take those who did? As for you slavery the only way you can be free is to stand up. Do not be like your oppressors but be better than them. Say to your people, who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice: In the process of gaining our rightful place, we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again, we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force. "Don't spout your meaningless philosophy to, me, elf, that isn't going to solve our problems. We've spent a thousand years carving lives for ourselves in this barren hell. We exist and endure by being stronger than anything the world can throw at us. We did rise up. We banded together and tried to wrest these chains off of us, under a leader that your predecessors killed and formed your organization around. Don't you even think of lecturing me or any of my kin, Guts and all of my allies here included, on how to act in the face of conflict. We don't have the luxury of caring when all the world is trying to destroy us. All we can and will do is weather what's thrown at us as we have always done."
Vash the Stampede Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 "Are humans any different?" "Don't spout your meaningless philosophy to, me, elf, that isn't going to solve our problems. We've spent a thousand years carving lives for ourselves in this barren hell. We exist and endure by being stronger than anything the world can throw at us. We did rise up. We banded together and tried to wrest these chains off of us, under a leader that your predecessors killed and formed your organization around. Don't you even think of lecturing me or any of my kin, Guts and all of my allies here included, on how to act in the face of conflict. We don't have the luxury of caring when all the world is trying to destroy us. All we can and will do is weather what's thrown at us as we have always done." "The fact about how humans are not that different doesn't slow you down? You've been oppressed and had to face the world, I can relate to that but what are you going to do? Fight this army today and conquer the High Kingdoms? In the eyes of humans you'll be oppressing them the same way that they oppressed you but they won't remember that." "Whether waging war is justice for their actions or not justice is a funny thing. It's something that lies in the eyes of the beholder. Most humans would see you the same as you see them, corrupt and evil for taking away lives no matter how just the cause. The surviving humans would rally together for their husbands, brothers and sons killed in the war. They'll strike back and then you'll lose some of your husbands, brothers and sons and the same as them you'll strike back for that. You can all choose your own paths and its certainly up to you which one you take and to a point no one can tell you that you've made the wrong choice but unless you're prepared to feel the weight of not only the lives of those ready to fight and die today but those that are peacefully waiting back at your homes which would start another war for revenge on those who do die today then you might want to step back and think a tad more." "Making peace certainly seems to be both nigh impossible and the wrong path to take considering what the humans may have done but take the time to weigh the lives of those that will die today and those that will die in the future against making peace and see which one is heavier."
UsernameMDM Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 "King Valentino wants peace. Does Grishnod want the same? If you continuously want revenge, then the paladins are in the right also. Those building the bridge have been daily harassed by the orcs. People have been killed on both sides. Let this come to a peaceful end as the Kings desire." "We will not anyone cross this bridge. That is what we were hired to do. We will hand over Raguel, and the orcs can exact justice from him. His beguiling tongue is responsible for this mess. If he is removed, I believe there is a greater chance at peace here. King Valention wants peace, King Speros wants peace. Does Grishnod want peace?"
The Legonater Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 What I feared, Nerwen, is the three of our groups coming to blows. What I feared was a massacre on all sides of the war. Something that, like you, I hope to avoid. I turn to Hoke. What Grishnod wants is liberation, and while I disagree that torching the High Kingdoms is the way to do, I do feel that Baltarok has more than earned its freedom. With all the cards laid out, it is difficult to disagree that the High Kingdoms are at fault here. I was wrong about them, I thought they'd be wiser than to evoke open war. However, the time for such sentiments has passed, and we need to figure out how to deal with the situation at hand. I agree that the return of Valetino would do much to end this war, I believe at this point it may be too late. A full-scale orc attack on the High Kingdoms would do us no good, however - it would confirm all of the High Kingdoms' suspicions, and they'd unite in an even greater attack that would wipe out Baltarok. Both sides are ready for war, and there seems to be no way to stand them down at this point. Like Nerwen said, what we might need is a force at the middle, warding them both off, however even that is a short-term solution. ...I wish I had answers here, but I don't, I admit that much. I do, however, believe that peace is still faintly possible if we try.
Zepher Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 Heweyrt and Valentino, who previously milled around the corners of the group, distracted by the huge Kingdom's force on the ground, turn around and respond to a few of the subjects raised. Matthias speaks up, but with little hope. "If this is the work of but one evil advisor, can we not deliver him to the Orcs to pay for his crimes? Our party has at least some influence on King Valentino - considering we saved his life - plus one orcish clan and Guts' party seems to have a relationship with one other. Perhaps we can convince them to accept this paladin and avert war?" "If my men could be reasoned with, I would. But I'm afraid that moment passed the second that an Orcish force showed itself. My son, and his... advisor, will suddenly appear to have been in the right. The Orcs are attempting to invade, again. "We're not out here to kill innocents," snapped Olmstyr. "We're here to kill the soldiers that stood back and let this happen, and to free those of us who remain enslaved by inheritance." "And then I'm sure that the Red Lizards will go and avenge their fallen in your land - it's the same cycle over and over again. We have tried to move past our history, can the Orcs not do the same? It was your aggression in our land that started this war the first time." "I am with the orcs if it comes down to the wire. Hweyrt, a subject of King Valentino, hired the circus to hire us to save his King. Upon completion of the task, we got ditched. The High Kingdoms have shown their true self in face of dire situations. Hweyrt only cared about things that benefited him most and nothing else. Hweyrt paid off the circus, took King Valentino back and sealed the bridge. Now that's some hospitality and gratitude we got for saving his King. King Valentino, a leader of men, clearly valued his safety over everyone else's. Not once did he express some sort of gratitude for saving his dear life by suggesting that we should be escorted to someplace safer. Being stuck in the middle of the bridge isn't the safest place to be honest. As a leader, he lacked the capacity to care for other sentient beings. Clearly, Hweyrt and King Valentino are self centered and have put their immediate interests over everything else. After all the hard work, after having close encounters with death itself, the circus and our party are being double crossed by people from the High Kingdoms, who possesses some sort of limitations in their view of the world. In contrast, Grishnod also had every opportunity to use King Valentino's lifeless head to instil fear through the ranks of High Kingdoms before the war, but he didn't. Even though time and time again, our party and the circus acted against his will, he has put revenge and spite aside for honour and compassion. Grishnod has transcended his own personal desires and has replaced them with the array of duties and values that a true leader should be upholding." Heweyrt snorts with laughter. "Elfie, you've got your head on wrong. I'm subject to no one here, actually, just an thinker, philosopher, innovator- who heard of a project I wished to see succeed. I am here strictly for the bridge, you're right about that, but it's because I'm a good guy with a good cause." "I apologize for not properly expressing-" "Listen, Valentino had to get home. If you were a prisoner for over a year I'm sure your head would be a little rattled. It's a little selfish to whine about not getting a good thank you in the middle of a war, isn't it? As for locking down the bridge - I never did that. Don't have the authority or the man power. Still haven't locked it down. Here-" he gestures in either direction- "you can walk off either side right now. Go ahead. I won't try to stop you. Not even a little bit. Promise. But the men on either side of this might not be so friendly as me, and I sadly don't have any sway with them." "Everyone that had a part of the attack is dead or captured, we made sure of that." More likely dead. "Where one attack was, there will be more. One city was burned, only a few left. What's there to stop the next attack, I wonder? Will the orcs ever be free from the yoke of the High Kingdoms? The High Kingdoms are a bunch of scared old man that control too many soldiers, if the orcs don't attempt to set things right now, when will they? When will the slaves be released, when will they get their vengeance? There was no war for centuries, and now this bridge is there and it is all kicking off. I don't like this idea of war any more than you do, Nerwen, but it's not up to choice at this point." It was all the bridge's fault, Guts sighed. Who was the idiot that figured it would be a good idea? "What yoke of the High Kingdoms? I have no yoke over there. The Orcs attacked first in the Orcish War, and are poised to strike again. This bridge that we stand on was an attempt to foster trade, foster cultural understanding, foster peaceful interaction. This was a hand reaching out to them, and they have attacked us time and time again. The Orcs are not attempting to set things right, they are returning to the wrongs they've already committed and the punishments they received for them. But I am trying to move forward, not backwards." "No, humans are no different," the gnome admits, "nor are gnomes - although my people might not fight if they could make better money otherwise. I do not expect that soldiers on the Kingdoms side of the bridge will all go home if their leader is killed. I believe our hope for peace there is King Valentino. If only he can regain control of his son and his people - which is one more reason we must remove the paladin from power." The gnome looks around at his comrades, the other Heroicans, and the two armies bent on destruction. "I have made my decision - I will not assist either side in a war; I will fight to remove the paladin and that is all." "Get my son to me, and I will try my best to make him see reason. Though, again, it appears he and Raguel will be harder to call liars now that there is a force to meet them.
swils Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 "What yoke of the High Kingdoms? I have no yoke over there. The Orcs attacked first in the Orcish War, and are poised to strike again. This bridge that we stand on was an attempt to foster trade, foster cultural understanding, foster peaceful interaction. This was a hand reaching out to them, and they have attacked us time and time again. The Orcs are not attempting to set things right, they are returning to the wrongs they've already committed and the punishments they received for them. But I am trying to move forward, not backwards." "If you can look't the ruins of Imaestym right now'n tell me that the Orcs are the aggressors here, 'poised to strike', then yer just a delusional old man."
Zepher Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 "I am led to understand that Prince Speros struck out against the Orcs after they murdered the High Kingdom General Mint. It was not the appropriate response, and I hear also that one of my best Generals was sent to stop him, but the Prince too was reacting to aggression. We must bury the hatchet of the past."
CMP Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 "And then I'm sure that the Red Lizards will go and avenge their fallen in your land - it's the same cycle over and over again. We have tried to move past our history, can the Orcs not do the same? It was your aggression in our land that started this war the first time." Olmstyr spat on the shoes of the king. "Keep a wolf starved and chained to a post, expect him to strike back when you draw close enough. If you had tried to move past your history, we wouldn't be here. You tried to contain us, isolate us, and so Tarokai rose up and threw off his chains. You let your Kingdoms be destroyed, you killed our greatest hero, yet you learned NOTHING. And so here we are again."
Zepher Posted April 12, 2014 Posted April 12, 2014 Valentino turns to look at the Orc dispassionately. "We let our cities be destroyed?! I'll let you know that my family fought in that war, and we did not lay down our swords and let our cities be destroyed. Maybe you let this city of your's be destroyed. As for your isolation - this bridge is supposed to remedy that. Yet you rise against it."
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