CorneliusMurdock Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 Wilhalm looks to me personally to be doing what he always does. And you're a terrific judge of character. You're absolutely wrong about me and you've convinced yourself so well that everything I do is scummy in your eyes. The only thing that would convince you at this point is my death. Even then, you'll shrug it off like you have in the past and move on to badgering someone else, all the while not losing that smug confidence of yours. I'm not asking for anyone to follow me in this. I know Wilhalm. A lot of people dismiss him unjustly. When he's on my side, he's an asset to me (whereas Snotra is just an megablocks to me{HA!}). But from what I can see of him so far, I really don't think he is on our side. And I realize that I'm shooting myself in the foot if Sigird turns up scum, but I think his lynch would be better for us than hers. The rest of the town has to do what they feel is right as well. If they think Sigrid's lynch is better, that's okay. I'm not convinced that she's scum just because she's not participating (though the more that she doesn't speak at all, that opinion may change {You want to continue to be able to play these situations, right Sigrid? If you truly are the lazy bum I think you're being it won't be hard to convince others that you're not worthy of being chosen for them}). I am pretty sure of Wilhalm, though.
LegoDad Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 While I don't disagree with the votes for Sigrid, I think there is a better chance of catching scum than her. I'm going to go back to my original Day 1 vote since it seems that at least somebody agrees with me at this point. Wilhalm's additions today still haven't really brought anything to the table and I'm still suspicious from yesterday. Vote: Wilhalm (Whitefang) On that note, and thank you Snotra for airing all of my laundry everywhere for having the slightest inkling that I might be scum, I obviously don't trust Wary, either. He posted about 5 times yesterday. Twice to vote, neither I was totally left at ease about due to the timing of them and who was voted for. Also, (in post 47) going out of his way to defend Dufa didn't sit well with me either. If we do end up voting for Sigrid, and she turns up scum, I do think that there will be a lot to be gained from it. If she's Town, I fear it would pretty much be a waste, since her main vote opponent Day 1 would have also been Town and scum could easily have hid within the votes for both of them. Also, she really hasn't had any comments at all to discern anything from, which is why we keep talking about her.
Fugazi Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 Gofraid, why do you keep insisting the scum didn't need a lynch? Lynch is better than no-lynch when it gets rid of a townie. I'm only trying to warn people about blindly following one theory. On the average lynch is better than no-lynch for scum on Day One, but not if that involves a suspicious last-minute ditch to pile votes on an innocent Einherjar. In that case, playing safe and letting town choose whether they want information from a lynch or not is in my opinion a better option. Vote: Sigrid (Sisco) Vote: Sigrid (Sisco) I'm sorry, but I'm starting to get worried about you guys. Especially Dufa. I'm used to more subtle analysis from you, but for the last two days you're only going for the inactive Vikings without even bothering about some rationale about what makes them scummier than the rest of us. This is not you, and I'm starting to wonder whether you're deliberately trying to shift the day's focus to random low profile targets. So, it's there, but I don't think it has priority of sorting the Sigrid and Mursi issue. If I was a vig, I would kill him at night. Uh, take care about suggesting vig targets, you know it's not really a town tell. Vote: Wilhalm Bloodaxe (WhiteFang) You're not doing much better than Dufa, though your explanation is a bit more convincing. Hm. What I think is that you are hoping that Sigrid will not be lynched, and can generate momentum in another direction, prolonging your capture. But that's just me. Wilhalm looks to me personally to be doing what he always does. So does Sigrid, unless you can convince me otherwise. Vote: Wilhalm (Whitefang) If we do end up voting for Sigrid, and she turns up scum, I do think that there will be a lot to be gained from it. If she's Town, I fear it would pretty much be a waste, since her main vote opponent Day 1 would have also been Town and scum could easily have hid within the votes for both of them. Also, she really hasn't had any comments at all to discern anything from, which is why we keep talking about her. How is it different in Wilhalm's case? Would his lynch be more informative if he turns town?
Hinckley Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 Why are only a handful of people participating today? Come on people, we have to work to win this. Where's out Viking fight? This while "vote for Sigrid to see if Mursi is Scum" seems contrived. I'm not following it. I don't see Mursi's voting from yesterday as suspicious. I don't like that we haven't heard from Sigrid. It's impossible to read someone who doesn't post...and doesn't talk when he does. But we have activity from Wilhalm and it's just not sitting right with me. Wilhalm, buddy, we go way back and I'm sorry if I'm wrong about this. You're not normally active but this activity seems forced. Vote: Wilhalm (White Fang) Ugh. Sorry. vote: Wilhalm(WhiteFand)
WhiteFang Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 Sometimes, it's better not to speak at all, and most probably to be regarded as flying under radar to be safe, even though I am trying to help or look to claim to help... isn't it better than doing nothing at all or not saying anything or merely following the bandwagon, where judgement is proven. Nothing is absolute unless proven guilty, so in my own capacity, I refuse to take this lying down...
Hinckley Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 I refuse to take this lying down... Good. If you're Town, yes please, by all means fight. I agree participating is better than saying nothing but the things you've said seem like nothing. You haven't offered any insight or suspicions or weighed in on lynch candidates. All we have is a long post about the killers that concludes any MO could be any faction. I'll invite if I see some Einherjar activity from you but right now I don't see it. By invite I mean un-vote.
jimmynick Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 If I was a vig, I would kill him at night. The scum could easily trap our vig if targets are suggested in the day thread. Nothing is absolute unless proven guilty, so in my own capacity, I refuse to take this lying down... Are you going to stand up any time soon?
Scubacarrot Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 The scum could easily trap our vig if targets are suggested in the day thread. I'm not suggesting anything. I'm just saying that is what I would do, if in a hypothetical situation, I could make that choice and was the vigilante.
LegoDad Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 How is it different in Wilhalm's case? Would his lynch be more informative if he turns town? I don't think anybody's lynch would be overly informative if they turn up town. To me, if Wilhalm is Scum, so is Naemr due to his backing him up Day 1. Some others don't like this theory, I'm ok with that. Same holds true with Wary and Dufa. It's a pet peeve of mine and actually seems to hold up in past games of life where I've noticed it. Even in ones that I've only been watching from afar. I'm not suggesting anything. I'm just saying that is what I would do, if in a hypothetical situation, I could make that choice and was the vigilante. You sure as shit suggested something, don't try to say you didn't and backtrack. You said you'd kill me if you were the vig. Sending an open invitation to the vig if you're not him. Dumb.
Scubacarrot Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 So does Sigrid, unless you can convince me otherwise. Saying as little is possible IS Sigrid's scum tactic. That's a fact. It's very likely I don't know enough and/or am missing something, but what of Wilhalm's behaviour is different from his usual in a way that would make him a likely scum now?
LegoDad Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 Starting to think I talked to the wrong person in private.
Waterbrick Down Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 I'm only trying to warn people about blindly following one theory. On the average lynch is better than no-lynch for scum on Day One, but not if that involves a suspicious last-minute ditch to pile votes on an innocent Einherjar. In that case, playing safe and letting town choose whether they want information from a lynch or not is in my opinion a better option. A last minute ditch to pile votes can equally mean the town wants a lynch to figure draw some conclusions from, so thus a scum would want to do so in order to look like an Einherjar. It's all WIFOM. First day lynches are notoriously bad and most people that vote for them generally don't get too much suspicion due to everyone being in the same boat of lack-of-evidence, thus scum usually don't have much to be worried about jumping on a bandwagon. I don't think anybody's lynch would be overly informative if they turn up town. To me, if Wilhalm is Scum, so is Naemr due to his backing him up Day 1. Some others don't like this theory, I'm ok with that. Same holds true with Wary and Dufa. It's a pet peeve of mine and actually seems to hold up in past games of life where I've noticed it. Even in ones that I've only been watching from afar. You mentioned me and Dufa earlier, I'm not quite following your connection.
Scubacarrot Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 You sure as shit suggested something, don't try to say you didn't and backtrack. You said you'd kill me if you were the vig. Sending an open invitation to the vig if you're not him. Dumb. Of course the vig is welcome to kill you, I'm not saying he can't do what I don't tell him to?? I can also say I want him to kill Mursi, I'd like that, because I think he's scum. How's that helping or not helping anyone? Unless the vigilante's a megablock, he's gonna make his own thought-through decision if and who he's gonna kill. Seriously, kill the redshirt already, jeez...
Bob Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 I'm starting to think that Sigrid might just be an innocent townie that's just lazy. Wilhalm on the other hand is attempting to be helpful but is failing. No scum would simply slide under the radar completely and not post. Vote: Wilhalm / WhiteFang Convince me you're town and I'll unvote you.
Hinckley Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 Wilhalm is normally not very active but his contributions are normally more significance. His participation seems forced. You're saying Sigrid's inactivity is a Scum tell? I'm not familiar with him.
CorneliusMurdock Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 Saying as little is possible IS Sigrid's scum tactic. That's a fact. If I were scum and were on Sigrid's team, I'd be mad as hell at him right now. It wouldn't have taken much the first day to get most of you off of his back. Just a little participation. The scum would not draw attention to themselves by purposely not talking. And if the scum team wasn't able to get through to Sigrid to get her to participate, they certainly wouldn't put their own butts on the line to save a useless lump. They'd cut losses and then complain to Odin about putting her on their team in the first place. I think that if she were scum, she might have been replaced by now. Or at the very least coached to talk by her team mates. Wilhalm- I love that you participated. And you have been much better about that recently. But when you're town you at least have something to say even if most people don't seem to notice. You don't seem like townie you right now. I know that's metagame-y and everything but that's what I think.
Waterbrick Down Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 It's simple. Sigrid is generally not active (consistent with what we've seen so far), however inactivity can easily mask scumminess since the suspect never has an opportunity to slip up or implicate fellow scum mates. Wilhalm on the other hand is generally not active either (consistent on the first day but not today), however his uncharacteristic activity has seemed off (i.e. the "saying a lot but not really saying anything"). Activity can also mask scumminess, but it is a lot harder to pull off in the long run and eventually mistakes are made or in this case as some are claiming, already has been made. I'll say if Wilhalm is scum he's eventually going to slip up if he continues his level of contributions. It's impossible to tell one way or the other with Sigrid however because he isn't saying anything. I was hesitant the other day about his behavior, because it seemed like his usual style, but his practical non-existence today makes me think he warrants a little more attention.
CMP Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 Vote: Wilhalm Bloodaxe (WhiteFang). I've already dissected what little meat there was in your last post and outlined why it's so pointless. At least Sigrid's not pretending to be helpful.
LegoDad Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 A last minute ditch to pile votes can equally mean the town wants a lynch to figure draw some conclusions from, so thus a scum would want to do so in order to look like an Einherjar. It's all WIFOM. First day lynches are notoriously bad and most people that vote for them generally don't get too much suspicion due to everyone being in the same boat of lack-of-evidence, thus scum usually don't have much to be worried about jumping on a bandwagon. You mentioned me and Dufa earlier, I'm not quite following your connection. In post #47, Day 1, Kolgrima calls out Dufa for his Vallhallest of Valhalla comments and didn't like it. You came in and defended Dufa for saying that is what he always does and to think nothing of it. Which is fine and dandy that that is his thing, to stroke his own ego, but let him say it, I don't think he needed you to do it.
Waterbrick Down Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 In post #47, Day 1, Kolgrima calls out Dufa for his Vallhallest of Valhalla comments and didn't like it. You came in and defended Dufa for saying that is what he always does and to think nothing of it. Which is fine and dandy that that is his thing, to stroke his own ego, but let him say it, I don't think he needed you to do it. Ah, I though you were talking about today which also occurred on post 47. Looking back though, you didn't make the connection that Helga was also of the same opinion?
Scubacarrot Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 Okay. I disagree with Wilhalm being helpful in other situations, but that's just me. If I were scum and were on Sigrid's team, I'd be mad as hell at him right now. It wouldn't have taken much the first day to get most of you off of his back. Just a little participation. The scum would not draw attention to themselves by purposely not talking. In your experience, do scum always do what their scummates tell them to? And: if it is as I say, wouldn't you say it's working for them? You're saying Sigrid's inactivity is a Scum tell? I'm not familiar with him. Not a scum tell, but it's what he does when she is scum. I messed correcting you up. Yeah...
CorneliusMurdock Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 In your experience, do scum always do what their scummates tell them to? And: if it is as I say, wouldn't you say it's working for them? You probably don't get what teamwork is all about but most scum players would want to work together to win. As for working for them, they wouldn't have wanted Sigrid in the spotlight to begin with, so no. Could be today or tomorrow, but Sigrid's time will run out. As far as I know, Sigird is always lazy quiet, scum or not. But I think a team would prod her to be more proactive even if she didn't want to be. I plan on going back and doing some more research into specific instances (someone mentioned to me a specific time I'd like to look at more closely) when I get some time tonight, but I'm pretty sure I remember correctly.
LegoDad Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 Ah, I though you were talking about today which also occurred on post 47. Looking back though, you didn't make the connection that Helga was also of the same opinion? You are right, Helga does agree with Kolgrima about the fact that it was odd for Dufa to make his bold claim, but knew the background to it that some of us don't, That Dufa is a braggart. Problem is, Helga isn't defending Dufa in that post you are talking about. He's saying that he's also irked by the statement and that Dufa is someone we should watch, which I agree.
Hinckley Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 I'm still not done with my game of "moving into a new apartment" but something is driving me crazy about this game. For one thing, it's a metagaming madhouse. I admit I'm doing it too. I know it's not always a bad thing, but there's a lot of it in the accusations being made. Not a lot of votes have been cast, but the two candidates right now are both low activity players again. I'll say it again. There may be a Scum in the inactive players, but they usually try to stay somewhere in the center: appear helpful but not really make any waves. And if the big concern is low activity, why has nobody mentioned Baulf-the-confused-parrot or Dagstyr-the-chime-in. I doubt a Scum would hammer an innocent with a vote so close, but a Serial Killer might. A Scum might too, actually. Ever hear of WIFOM? There's also a lot of activity happening behind the scenes right now. This is usually fine if the Town is trying to coordinate but I've got quite a few PMs with people floating theories about players that they're not mentioning in thread. Bring out your theories! Why discuss them only in private? I'm not going to mention anybody until I've had a chance to really look over the day thread and my PMs, but I don't understand the harm in accusing people in-thread. Especially if the concern is people's feelings. It's Mafia. We all know what we signed up for. If you're only discussing suspicions in-thread, how do you know the person you've decided to trust isn't manipulating you?? Lastly, I'm hearing that Sigrid's lynch will tell us something about Mursi and now someone else is trying to tell me it will tell us something about Gofraid. What is it with Sigrid that has everyone's panties in a bunch?? I'm metagaming again, but the bromance of Dufa and Snotra is creeping me out. If we lynch Sigrid and he's Town I'm voting for one of you tomorrow. I rarely see a "If so and so is Scum then this person is too" actually reveal anything. As soon as I have a minute, I really want to dissect these moments around "steering the lynch away from Sigrid".
Waterbrick Down Posted December 5, 2013 Posted December 5, 2013 Depends how you read it, I guess. You'll note though that I didn't defend Dufa but merely said that his tactic has been used so many times in the past that's it's pretty much meaningless as a scum-tell or a townie-tell at this point. But that's all yesterday when we didn't have anything to go aside from comparing behaviors to past performances. What's more important is taking what we do know today and acting upon it. You are right, Helga does agree with Kolgrima about the fact that it was odd for Dufa to make his bold claim, but knew the background to it that some of us don't, That Dufa is a braggart. Problem is, Helga isn't defending Dufa in that post you are talking about. He's saying that he's also irked by the statement and that Dufa is someone we should watch, which I agree.
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