Ragnarök Now Redux - Day Two

[fhomess]

Helga, you've basically done the same thing you're saying you're concerned about. Voting for a quiet player. The bandwagon on Wilhalm has moved along reasonably quickly to 5 votes. The difference with Wilhalm is that he got attacked once he did contribute because he didn't add anything. I'm not saying he's not scum, but it doesn't strike me as a way to encourage Sigrid, Dagstyrr, and other quiet people to say much. If any of them are scum and in the slightest bit concerned about coming off as townie, they'll probably just keep on saying nothing.

As for me, I'll admit to thinking that Gofraid is a bit suspicious. Voting patterns let us group people into different subsets, and the one that interests me most from yesterday is the 6 votes that took the tally from 9-6 in favor of Sigrid to 12-8 in favor of Petr. Gofraid started that switch with the 7th vote for Petr, and that's what caused me to start looking at him. Following him, were Lefsi, Wary, Patrekr, Chlodo, and Dagstyrr.

Chlodo's been proven town. I think Dagstyrr is more likely town than scum because of the very late vote and the initial vote for Naemr when first signing back on. That's more of a town tell to me than the hammer vote for Petr.

As for the other four:

- Gofraid led it

- Lefsi is sandwiched in there (nice place for scum to hide?)

- Wary cast the tying vote (if you think the scum were going for a no-lynch, then this is potentially suspcious)

- Patrekr made it clearly in favor of Petr since he switch off of Sigrid (potentially suspicious if you think Sigrid is scum who was being saved)

At any rate, I think it's highly unlikely that no one in this group is scum. I haven't yet heard anyone suggest that's not the case. It's just too many end of the day votes. Gofraid is the one who is pushing hardest that we really can't read much into the voting pattern, and that's why he's currently at the top of my scum list for this group.

[Hinckley]

Helga, you've basically done the same thing you're saying you're concerned about. Voting for a quiet player. The bandwagon on Wilhalm has moved along reasonably quickly to 5 votes. The difference with Wilhalm is that he got attacked once he did contribute because he didn't add anything. I'm not saying he's not scum, but it doesn't strike me as a way to encourage Sigrid, Dagstyrr, and other quiet people to say much. If any of them are scum and in the slightest bit concerned about coming off as townie, they'll probably just keep on saying nothing.

I'm not voting for Wilhalm because he's inactive. I'm voting for him because the content of the few posts he's made seem Scummy to me. Are you suggesting that we shouldn't vote for Wilhalm so that Sigrid and Dagstyr will talk more?

As for me, I'll admit to thinking that Gofraid is a bit suspicious. Voting patterns let us group people into different subsets, and the one that interests me most from yesterday is the 6 votes that took the tally from 9-6 in favor of Sigrid to 12-8 in favor of Petr. Gofraid started that switch with the 7th vote for Petr, and that's what caused me to start looking at him. Following him, were Lefsi, Wary, Patrekr, Chlodo, and Dagstyrr.

Chlodo's been proven town. I think Dagstyrr is more likely town than scum because of the very late vote and the initial vote for Naemr when first signing back on. That's more of a town tell to me than the hammer vote for Petr.

As for the other four:

- Gofraid led it

- Lefsi is sandwiched in there (nice place for scum to hide?)

- Wary cast the tying vote (if you think the scum were going for a no-lynch, then this is potentially suspcious)

- Patrekr made it clearly in favor of Petr since he switch off of Sigrid (potentially suspicious if you think Sigrid is scum who was being saved)

At any rate, I think it's highly unlikely that no one in this group is scum. I haven't yet heard anyone suggest that's not the case. It's just too many end of the day votes. Gofraid is the one who is pushing hardest that we really can't read much into the voting pattern, and that's why he's currently at the top of my scum list for this group.

Have you noticed voting is opened? It's the perfect time to vote for the person you find Scummiest.

[Rick]

Day one - much of the town is not saying much, and either not voting or throwing votes away at someone nobody else is going to vote for. I urge people to focus votes on the top three vote-getters. Are you accusing me of making sure the people under the most pressure got more pressure? What was wrong with that? Did you have a better course of action? Are you offering one today?

It's possible that, if you're a Servant, you knew they were all Einherjar and were trying to make sure we either got a Einherjar lynched or no lynch at all. It could also explain why you want to get Sigrid lynched today. It'd be nice if Sigrid could be bothered to participate, but so far I don't have a lot to base an opinion on.

Lefsi, I don't know. I have come to realise that he doesn't know what he's doing. Doesn't make him town, but puts him in that limbo zone of "really hard to make a call about," that often plagues these situations. I really don't know, but I'd be willing to put a vote there, depending on.

I still think he's acted a lot more suspicious than someone who hasn't acted at all.

When did I suspect Lefsi?

Oooooh. You mean redshirt. Hold up.

Right. So what happened was I called him out one suspicious phrase. His response... Don't know, could be a scum response, honestly. He also tried buddying up to me in private, which is interesting, with phrases like, make it clear I am town so we can work together, or something along those lines.

So, it's there, but I don't think it has priority of sorting the Sigrid and Mursi issue. If I was a vig, I would kill him at night.

On rereading it, I find Redshirt's private message to me very suspicious, check this out.

"I know that I didn't act the towniest yesterday"

Uhm.

Why aren't you voting for him if you think he's "very suspicious"? There isn't a one-on-one link between Sigrid's and Mursi's affiliation, so - irrespective of Sigrid's affiliation - it won't tell us anything conclusive on Mursi. Yet, you and Duffman seem set on getting Sigrid the Silent lynched.

I don't think anybody's lynch would be overly informative if they turn up town. To me, if Wilhalm is Scum, so is Naemr due to his backing him up Day 1. Some others don't like this theory, I'm ok with that. Same holds true with Wary and Dufa. It's a pet peeve of mine and actually seems to hold up in past games of life where I've noticed it. Even in ones that I've only been watching from afar.

In both cases, there was no reason whatsoever to back anyone up, so I really don't think Wilhalm's or Wary's affiliation will tell us anything about Naemr's or Dufa's.

If I were scum and were on Sigrid's team, I'd be mad as hell at him right now. It wouldn't have taken much the first day to get most of you off of his back. Just a little participation. The scum would not draw attention to themselves by purposely not talking.

Indeed, it seems unlikely a scum team would be ok with her non-participation.

And if the scum team wasn't able to get through to Sigrid to get her to participate, they certainly wouldn't put their own butts on the line to save a useless lump. They'd cut losses and then complain to Odin about putting her on their team in the first place.

Or... they have decided to take advantage of the situation and bus her to build up some credibility. The thought has crossed my mind that this is what Dufa and/or Snotra might be attempting to do.

[Scubacarrot]

Why aren't you voting for him if you think he's "very suspicious"? There isn't a one-on-one link between Sigrid's and Mursi's affiliation, so - irrespective of Sigrid's affiliation - it won't tell us anything conclusive on Mursi. Yet, you and Duffman seem set on getting Sigrid the Silent lynched.

Sigrid = likely scum, with Mursi. Lefsi = suspicious. Does that make it clear?

I'm metagaming again, but the bromance of Dufa and Snotra is creeping me out.

You're jealous, aren't you?

You probably don't get what teamwork is all about but most scum players would want to work together to win.

That's mean. I do teamwork all the time. When it suits me.

But sure, of course, only it is you saying that it'd be bad for the team, and I'm saying that it wouldn't be/isn't. So we disagree there. Or faux-disagree since you're scum, but yeah.

[fhomess]

I'm not voting for Wilhalm because he's inactive. I'm voting for him because the content of the few posts he's made seem Scummy to me. Are you suggesting that we shouldn't vote for Wilhalm so that Sigrid and Dagstyr will talk more?

Sorry, but your most recent comments prior to this one stuck me as somewhat contradictory. You voted for Wilhalm who was mostly inactive and being ignored for metagamey reasons until he bothered to post something, then complained about people metagaming.

No, I'm just making an observation about human nature.

Have you noticed voting is opened? It's the perfect time to vote for the person you find Scummiest.

I have, thank you. You should have noticed that in my previous comments. I will vote when I wish to.

It's possible that, if you're a Servant, you knew they were all Einherjar and were trying to make sure we either got a Einherjar lynched or no lynch at all. It could also explain why you want to get Sigrid lynched today. It'd be nice if Sigrid could be bothered to participate, but so far I don't have a lot to base an opinion on.

...snip...

Or... they have decided to take advantage of the situation and bus her to build up some credibility. The thought has crossed my mind that this is what Dufa and/or Snotra might be attempting to do.

It sounds like you think Dufa is scum either way. Is that accurate? Is that your better course of action? Is there someone else you think is scummier?

[Palathadric]

Patrekr changed his vote from Sigrid to Petr because he claimed suspicious people voted for Sigrid. I assume from these posts he means Tumi, Wilhalm, Mist and... Patrekr (?) Please elaborate and correct me if you mean other people, Patrekr.

Something I have noticed though are that three more serious suspects are on the Sigrid bandwagon, while only Naemr is on the Petr one. I don't really know what this means though.

By "the three more serious suspects," I meant Petr, Wilhalm, and Mist of course.

I made this comment shortly after the posts you quoted. Did you need it more clear than that?

Also, a few of the others struck me as a bit suspicious there as well.

[Rick]

Sigrid = likely scum, with Mursi. Lefsi = suspicious. Does that make it clear?

Not really, but that's probably because I don't quite follow why "Sigrid = likely scum". You'd rather vote for someone who's quiet instead of someone who is "very suspicious".

As for me, I'll admit to thinking that Gofraid is a bit suspicious.

There were two things that struck me as odd around Gofraid's vote for Petr.

I will be around until the end of the day, waiting for Petr to explain himself and ready to change my vote if need be.

I wonder what could have changed your mind at that point and who you would have voted for instead. In the same post you indicate Sigrid would be an "unproductive lynch", so I doubt that was an option for you.

I'm not buying all of Petr's conclusions, but at least he's present and attempting to explain himself. I'm certainly not sure about my vote, and what is most annoying now is that we don't have a lynch -- unless I'm mistaken. There are still some non-voters among us, which is hardly acceptable in a situation such as this one.

It seems a little redundant to say you're "not sure" about your vote. It'd be weird if you were sure, wouldn't it?

It sounds like you think Dufa is scum either way. Is that accurate? Is that your better course of action? Is there someone else you think is scummier?

I'm trying to make sense of Dufa's and Snotra's behaviour and one (or both) of them being a Servant could explain why they're so focused on Sigrid, irrespective of whether Sigrid's a Servant or Einherjar.

I'm still suspicious of Lefsi and I can relate to what you're saying about Gofraid and what people seem to see in Wilhalm's reactions today.

[Palathadric]

Saying as little is possible IS Sigrid's scum tactic. That's a fact.

Well, I have to say that the two games I played with Sigrid she played like this, more or less, and ended up being scum in both of them. I didn't and I don't get the impression that it is a tactic though. I think it's just laziness and she'd play them same way whether she was scum or town.

I don't think anybody's lynch would be overly informative if they turn up town. To me, if Wilhalm is Scum, so is Naemr due to his backing him up Day 1.

I tend to agree. It's hard to come to any solid conclusions based on voting and the like until at least one scum is caught. Interesting that you brought up Naemr. He was actually pretty darn suspicious and I still think that it is likely that there is one scum in the Naemr, Wilhalm, and Mist triumvirate, and it clearly can't be Mist.

[Rick]

Sometimes, it's better not to speak at all, and most probably to be regarded as flying under radar to be safe, even though I am trying to help or look to claim to help... isn't it better than doing nothing at all or not saying anything or merely following the bandwagon, where judgement is proven. Nothing is absolute unless proven guilty, so in my own capacity, I refuse to take this lying down...

This didn't really make sense to me, but it seems to be some old Norse Fanglish dialect.

"I am trying to help or look to claim to help" = I'm trying to appear/claim to be helpful?

"Nothing is absolute unless proven guilty, so in my own capacity, I refuse to take this lying down..." = You can't call me scummy, unless you have the proof to back it up and until then I won't confess to being a Servant?

[Scubacarrot]

Not really, but that's probably because I don't quite follow why "Sigrid = likely scum". You'd rather vote for someone who's quiet instead of someone who is "very suspicious".

Obviously Sigrid is super suspicious as well. I figured that goes without saying.

[Fugazi]

As for me, I'll admit to thinking that Gofraid is a bit suspicious. Voting patterns let us group people into different subsets, and the one that interests me most from yesterday is the 6 votes that took the tally from 9-6 in favor of Sigrid to 12-8 in favor of Petr. Gofraid started that switch with the 7th vote for Petr, and that's what caused me to start looking at him. Following him, were Lefsi, Wary, Patrekr, Chlodo, and Dagstyrr.

Chlodo's been proven town. I think Dagstyrr is more likely town than scum because of the very late vote and the initial vote for Naemr when first signing back on. That's more of a town tell to me than the hammer vote for Petr.

As for the other four:

- Gofraid led it

- Lefsi is sandwiched in there (nice place for scum to hide?)

- Wary cast the tying vote (if you think the scum were going for a no-lynch, then this is potentially suspcious)

- Patrekr made it clearly in favor of Petr since he switch off of Sigrid (potentially suspicious if you think Sigrid is scum who was being saved)

At any rate, I think it's highly unlikely that no one in this group is scum. I haven't yet heard anyone suggest that's not the case. It's just too many end of the day votes. Gofraid is the one who is pushing hardest that we really can't read much into the voting pattern, and that's why he's currently at the top of my scum list for this group.

Of course that you can group votes in any number of ways that will allow you to make me lead a group if it suits you to. You look at figures on a piece of paper but fail to take into account the randomness of life -- I have switched votes when I did because the day was getting late and that it was a convenient moment around my daily activities when I had the time to do so. I maintain that this sort of mathematical analysis on voting patterns is hit-and-miss, because mafia is not a simple system where every parameter is well defined. You can cook up an analysis to prove mostly anything, true or false. In this case, you come to the conclusion that I'm suspect because I have led a turnaround in votes (which was fortuitous, and meaningless if others I wasn't in contact with before and after me hadn't done the same). I am well aware that your main conclusion (i.e. Gofraid is your top scum) is faulty, therefore I propose that the whole thing is meaningless -- no offence meant.

By the way, I read Dagstyrr's quick-fire vote switch in a totally different way. What was the point of casting a minority vote that late in the day, only to change it minutes later for Petr? I know myself and others have asked non-voters to get off their butts and speak their minds, but this looked to me like an attempt to disguise simple bandwagonning.

There were two things that struck me as odd around Gofraid's vote for Petr.

I wonder what could have changed your mind at that point and who you would have voted for instead. In the same post you indicate Sigrid would be an "unproductive lynch", so I doubt that was an option for you.

Many things could have changed my mind -- another more scummy target, a better explanation from Petr, a claim... I was still thinking that Kolgrima was the more suspicious one and I would have maintained my vote for her had more supported the idea. But as it was my vote was useless and we were in danger of not lynching. And yes, I only consider Sigrid and Wilhalm as fall-back options and not very appealing lynches. They may be scum, but their behaviour doesn't strike me as such.

It seems a little redundant to say you're "not sure" about your vote. It'd be weird if you were sure, wouldn't it?

You're splitting hair. Let's say that my conviction in that instance was not so strong, as opposed to other votes where I would be quite confident that the lynchee is scum.

[Waterbrick Down]

Of course that you can group votes in any number of ways that will allow you to make me lead a group if it suits you to. You look at figures on a piece of paper but fail to take into account the randomness of life -- I have switched votes when I did because the day was getting late and that it was a convenient moment around my daily activities when I had the time to do so. I maintain that this sort of mathematical analysis on voting patterns is hit-and-miss, because mafia is not a simple system where every parameter is well defined. You can cook up an analysis to prove mostly anything, true or false. In this case, you come to the conclusion that I'm suspect because I have led a turnaround in votes (which was fortuitous, and meaningless if others I wasn't in contact with before and after me hadn't done the same). I am well aware that your main conclusion (i.e. Gofraid is your top scum) is faulty, therefore I propose that the whole thing is meaningless -- no offence meant.

You do realize that you spent an entire paragraphs saying this because you know you you're not scum that Finn's accusation is false?

By the way, I read Dagstyrr's quick-fire vote switch in a totally different way. What was the point of casting a minority vote that late in the day, only to change it minutes later for Petr? I know myself and others have asked non-voters to get off their butts and speak their minds, but this looked to me like an attempt to disguise simple bandwagonning.

Many things could have changed my mind -- another more scummy target, a better explanation from Petr, a claim... I was still thinking that Kolgrima was the more suspicious one and I would have maintained my vote for her had more supported the idea. But as it was my vote was useless and we were in danger of not lynching. And yes, I only consider Sigrid and Wilhalm as fall-back options and not very appealing lynches. They may be scum, but their behaviour doesn't strike me as such.

I've never understood the logic of telling someone you'll reconsider voting if someone can change their mind. They should be attempting to change everyone's mind defacto, what's the point in telling them that, unless you're trying to "act" like a reasonable person.

[Fugazi]

You do realize that you spent an entire paragraphs saying this because you know you you're not scum that Finn's accusation is false?

No, I only spent the last sentence of the paragraph doing that. The rest of the paragraph is true regardless of my 'inside' knowledge.

I've never understood the logic of telling someone you'll reconsider voting if someone can change their mind. They should be attempting to change everyone's mind defacto, what's the point in telling them that, unless you're trying to "act" like a reasonable person.

The point in this case was actually not telling Petr that I would change my mind if he came up with a solid defense (which would still have been true), but rather tell the rest of you that I would be around to change my vote if something came up and the consensus shifted.

[Waterbrick Down]

No, I only spent the last sentence of the paragraph doing that. The rest of the paragraph is true regardless of my 'inside' knowledge.

If your point is that anything can be rationalized to give support to any accusation, then what's the point in analyzing anything?

The point in this case was actually not telling Petr that I would change my mind if he came up with a solid defense (which would still have been true), but rather tell the rest of you that I would be around to change my vote if something came up and the consensus shifted.

Why would we need to know this? Were you worried that someone would suspect you if you didn't show up and change your vote if something else came up? It may very well be the case, but I think most of us assume that people will change their vote if something revealing happens.

[MagPiesRUs]

Vote Count:

Wilhalm Bloodaxe (WhiteFang): 5 votes (Cornelius Murdock, LegoDad, Hinckley, Bob, CallMePie)

Sigrid (Sisco): 2 votes (def, Scubacarrot)

9 votes are required to convict. Just under 34 hours remain.

[Palathadric]

By the way, I read Dagstyrr's quick-fire vote switch in a totally different way. What was the point of casting a minority vote that late in the day, only to change it minutes later for Petr? I know myself and others have asked non-voters to get off their butts and speak their minds, but this looked to me like an attempt to disguise simple bandwagonning.

I read it the same way actually. It looked ridiculously a lot like an excuse for nailing the final vote. I don't really see what would be the point of doing something like that if he's town. I have a hard time deciding whether the scum would have wanted to place that final vote or not.

[def]

Sorry, I only have 20 minutes before work, so this is going to be very self-centred.

I'm sorry, but I'm starting to get worried about you guys. Especially Dufa. I'm used to more subtle analysis from you, but for the last two days you're only going for the inactive Vikings without even bothering about some rationale about what makes them scummier than the rest of us. This is not you, and I'm starting to wonder whether you're deliberately trying to shift the day's focus to random low profile targets.

My vote for Sisco is based on the rapid swing from him to Petr, not on him being inactive. But it's noted that you want to portray it differently and mislead people about me

In post #47, Day 1, Kolgrima calls out Dufa for his Vallhallest of Valhalla comments and didn't like it. You came in and defended Dufa for saying that is what he always does and to think nothing of it. Which is fine and dandy that that is his thing, to stroke his own ego, but let him say it, I don't think he needed you to do it.

You are right, Helga does agree with Kolgrima about the fact that it was odd for Dufa to make his bold claim, but knew the background to it that some of us don't, That Dufa is a braggart. Problem is, Helga isn't defending Dufa in that post you are talking about. He's saying that he's also irked by the statement and that Dufa is someone we should watch, which I agree.

You know that old saying about saying nothing and having people think you're a total dummy instead of speaking and proving it? Applies to you here. It's a game, and whininess like this sucks the fun out of it.

It's possible that, if you're a Servant, you knew they were all Einherjar and were trying to make sure we either got a Einherjar lynched or no lynch at all. It could also explain why you want to get Sigrid lynched today. It'd be nice if Sigrid could be bothered to participate, but so far I don't have a lot to base an opinion on.

That doesn't make sense. I could have tried to Einherjar lynched, but why would I try for no lynch at all? It's not a reason to lynch him today. i don't think Sigrid is making the scum tremble in their boots.

Or... they have decided to take advantage of the situation and bus her to build up some credibility. The thought has crossed my mind that this is what Dufa and/or Snotra might be attempting to do.

Yup, if he's town, I'm scum, if he's scum, I'm scum. From your point of view, we really can't learn anything from his lynch, can we

The writing is on the wall for Wilheim, so lets hear some other theories.

[Waterbrick Down]

I read it the same way actually. It looked ridiculously a lot like an excuse for nailing the final vote. I don't really see what would be the point of doing something like that if he's town. I have a hard time deciding whether the scum would have wanted to place that final vote or not.

The thing that has me confused is why wouldn't he just put the hammer on him in the first place?

[Captain Nemo]

I tend to agree. It's hard to come to any solid conclusions based on voting and the like until at least one scum is caught. Interesting that you brought up Naemr. He was actually pretty darn suspicious and I still think that it is likely that there is one scum in the Naemr, Wilhalm, and Mist triumvirate, and it clearly can't be Mist.

Well then clearly Wilhalm is scum, since I know for a fact that I'm town. Granted, that's assuming there's a scum in that triumvirate--and I'm not even sure how I was included in that. Either way, I'm town.

---

To be frank, I'm not happy with either of the "leading" lynches today. Like everyone, I cannot get a read on Sigrid, since she obviously says nothing; this makes her both a crappy town player and a crappy scum player. However I am iffy about voting for her because of a few things; first her being lazy does not mean she's scum off the bat (But really she's not doing anything, so...), but secondly I'm more so iffy about the two other vikings who are voting for her currently, since I trust Dufa and Snorta the least, while I feel like those voting for Wilhalm are more townish in my opinion. If Sigrid is scum, and a lazy scum player at that, it could be possible Rurik's theory could be true.

I'm also unsure of Wilhalm too, since he does not say much either (Though honestly neither do I or many people), yet what he says is apparently fluff/nothing. Even from that, I have to say I'm not reading him as scummy, at least not as scummy as some others (Whom I may just end up voting for besides these two top candidates thus far). I'm not ready to vote at this time. I would like to hear at least something from Sigrid though!

[Palathadric]

The thing that has me confused is why wouldn't he just put the hammer on him in the first place?

Yup. Can't see any reason a townie would not. A scum...don't know. Maybe wanted to show that he was very reluctant to do it.

Naemr, you were the one who put out the whole idea about searching the old day threads. Weren't you also the one who was defending yourself early in the game for no apparent reason. I don't have that in my notes for some reason, but I thought it was you. You were pretty suspicious all along, but happened to be overshadowed by other things.

I would like to hear at least something from Sigrid though!

I think from what we've seen so far, it seems clear that saying that will not make her talk anymore than she is.

[Scubacarrot]

Well. Besides the fact that someone, and I'm not naming any names but it is most definitely Finn, is laying words in my mouth for no reason and being a right meanie all around, I just realized something.

So who's making this difficult for people. It's not Wilhalm, he's trying. According to himself. It's not Mursi, he's saying what he's saying (even though he is scum). Who's making this difficult? It's Sigrid.

Now. I have said before, I don't see merit in the: "If Sigrid was scum she'd be talking." That's horsehit. That's the same as saying that the scum can not be dumb and that all scum are teamplayers. It's just flatout BS.

At the very least, a townie, would be chiming in. There is NO REASON for a townie to be doing this. None. A scum would have A reason, namely the thing I mentioned that this is Sigrid's nefarious tactic.

[fhomess]

Of course that you can group votes in any number of ways that will allow you to make me lead a group if it suits you to. You look at figures on a piece of paper but fail to take into account the randomness of life -- I have switched votes when I did because the day was getting late and that it was a convenient moment around my daily activities when I had the time to do so. I maintain that this sort of mathematical analysis on voting patterns is hit-and-miss, because mafia is not a simple system where every parameter is well defined. You can cook up an analysis to prove mostly anything, true or false. In this case, you come to the conclusion that I'm suspect because I have led a turnaround in votes (which was fortuitous, and meaningless if others I wasn't in contact with before and after me hadn't done the same). I am well aware that your main conclusion (i.e. Gofraid is your top scum) is faulty, therefore I propose that the whole thing is meaningless -- no offence meant.

I agree that you can group things to say whatever you want them to, but Wary's right. You have to analyze at some level. Voting analysis is a perfectly reasonable place to start from when looking for people to analyze more closely. I'm glad to hear I'm wrong because you know you're town. How likely do you think it is that none of those final 6 voters were scum? Which of the remaining 4 would be scummiest in your opinion and why?

By the way, I read Dagstyrr's quick-fire vote switch in a totally different way. What was the point of casting a minority vote that late in the day, only to change it minutes later for Petr? I know myself and others have asked non-voters to get off their butts and speak their minds, but this looked to me like an attempt to disguise simple bandwagonning.

I didn't see a need to disguise simple bandwagoning at that point. I can respect the alternate viewpoint, but I don't particularly agree with it. Apparently I'm in the minority on that.

Well. Besides the fact that someone, and I'm not naming any names but it is most definitely Finn, is laying words in my mouth for no reason and being a right meanie all around, I just realized something.

So who's making this difficult for people. It's not Wilhalm, he's trying. According to himself. It's not Mursi, he's saying what he's saying (even though he is scum). Who's making this difficult? It's Sigrid.

Now. I have said before, I don't see merit in the: "If Sigrid was scum she'd be talking." That's horsehit. That's the same as saying that the scum can not be dumb and that all scum are teamplayers. It's just flatout BS.

At the very least, a townie, would be chiming in. There is NO REASON for a townie to be doing this. None. A scum would have A reason, namely the thing I mentioned that this is Sigrid's nefarious tactic.

I'm just trying to understand you, Snotra. Angry housewives with rolling pins have never been my type. Of all the ladies in this place, I'm left with you, Helga, and Sigrid. The pickings are slim.

I do agree that Sigrid is known for this behavior and that it's not helping in the least.

[Palathadric]

Well, it seems Sigrid's spirit has left her. I guess we should wait and see if the new spirit (assuming there is one) carries on behaving suspiciously or not.

Maybe the joker voted Naemr because he didn't think it possible we could lynch Petr, but then when the red-haired dude voted, he switched his vote. He has been acting a bit strange though.

[Captain Nemo]

Naemr, you were the one who put out the whole idea about searching the old day threads. Weren't you also the one who was defending yourself early in the game for no apparent reason. I don't have that in my notes for some reason, but I thought it was you. You were pretty suspicious all along, but happened to be overshadowed by other things.

I think from what we've seen so far, it seems clear that saying that will not make her talk anymore than she is.

Those are both true statments about what I said day one. The part of my first post that people took as (And I suppose reading it now, I can see why) defensive was something to the affect of: "while some of you know each other, don't consider all of us newly dead evil...I'll do my best to defend us Einherjar...".

I said this because it was also in reference to the fact that I thought we should look at the old Ragnarok game--and that it would seem only logical that considering the town won the first Ragnarok, then it's likely the new scum are "new" vikings rather than old ones. Obviously this is only speculation, and there's not a way to prove it--and looking on it now, to myself it seems to hindge too much on a "story" then likelyhood of the actual game. And clearly I didn't say it well--though the lack of interest in looking at the old game ended my thoughts about it too (Though metagaming seems big in this one anyways).

I think from what we've seen so far, it seems clear that saying that will not make her talk anymore than she is.

Hey...It worked!

Guess I was the 100th caller!

[WhiteFang]

I just woke up from a short break and it turns out to be a string of barrage against me. It is groundless accusations based on how I present myself, but merely wanting to be helpful to point out something in a subtle manner.

Chief Mursi, with all due respect, I do respect you for your choice of targeting me for today's conviction but I am certainly a part of this team to defend ourselves against the tricks of Loki. At this stage, I do not trust anyone completely but you are pushing me to a corner to force me to shed some truth to it which put myself in risk... I don't know how and why you bet that I am a high probable cause, along with Canute and some others.

From my earlier post, when I am talking about the 3 killers, I refer and highlight that the serial killer is 100% true and it is not mere speculation. I know people can 'see' for themselves but will everyone believe that 3rd killer is a speculated person. I truly want to make sure we are safe from another. If no one believe me, then see it for yourself tonight.. If you have some sort of secret alliance out there, let my night action prove it to you or send an investigator to check me out. I am no vanilla townie but I am an asset to our cause. I hope all of you will sincerely understand that I am not 'trying to be helpful' at all. Either way, if you are totally convinced that I am not a contributor, then let it be and let it serve it as a reminder to the mistake that you have made.

I should and ought to take a back seat in the first place back in Day 1. Because each time I opened my mouth too much, you guys have the tendency to suspect that I bear ill intentions.

That is all I have to add at this point in time. It is up to individuals to decide if you wish to accept my side of my argument at face value or not.