Hey, I'm new to this forum but always been mad about Lego Technic. I've noticed since I was a kid it has changed quite a bit. I've not long bought 8043 excavator hoping for a blast from the past but it was nothing like it was about 10years ago. There's basically next to no studded parts, why did they decide to make it like this?

I have about £3000-£4000 worth of old Lego Technic sets mixed up in a couple of boxes and it's quite hard to mix with all the new stuff because of the new Lego being studless. Don't get me wrong I still love it but it's like I'm learning from scratch again lol. It used to keep me entertained for weeks. I was only 9 when the barcode truck (8479) came out and that soon became my favourite, it still is one of them today and still works fine but all the cables for the old motors that I have are broken.

Hoping to get my imagination working once again and get back into it. It's even better now I have my own kids as they love it just as much as me. I've not grown up, I've just gotten bigger

If anyone can recommend any good sets to buy it would be much appreciated. I like really complicated things and long builds. THe 8043 excavator only took me about 6hours to complete.

You will surely stay with us for a while - and spend another couple of thousands pounds on bricks ;).

For me the best studless building experience was 8258 Crane Truck. But if you want something really complicated you should go for Andrea Grazi's Tow Truck (you can find the instructions in 5571 review thread). It uses mainly old style bricks (motors, studded beams etc) so with your collection you will have easier start in process of gathering parts.

Studless isn't better or worse than studded. It's different.

I like to combine both, to get the best of every system. Studded for best rigidity of the chassis, studless for all mechanical parts.

Welcome Cave Dweller,

I can relate to what you see as a problem, but believe me you will adapt to it. Here's a challenge for you, try fitting a new motor and battery pack into your barcode truck. See how you can adapt your barcode truck with studless parts. I'm still adapting to it and having fun at the same time. It might seem scary at first but have a good nose around the forum, examine the many pictures of models and practice building and adpating. I look forward to your input in the future.

H

I see your point, I like the new technic sets very much but since I'm more of a System builder I often go looking for old technic sets because they can be intergrated in System more easely.

Technic beams can be used to make more compact constructions than you could with technic bricks.

Edited December 25, 201311 yr by Sebeus I

why did they decide to make it like this?

I think we'll never know the exact reasonsing for why Technic has become studless. We can only guess.

My guess: it's cheaper for the same amount of functions (and, thus, for the same amount of advertisement that can be done), and it might be easier to make it look good.

Compare any 2013 Technic to any 1990 Technic and you'll notice that studless Technic looks much more sleek, and the older Technic looks much more blocky. The modern look might appeal to the target audience more. (Remember, we are not the main target audience for Technic.)

it's like I'm learning from scratch again

Welcome to the club. We all go through this. Even I have trouble sometimes getting things to work as I want it, and I build studless for as long as it exists.

[8479] used to keep me entertained for weeks. [snip] The 8043 excavator only took me about 6hours to complete.

That's part of growing up. Technic didn't become simpler. You have just become smarter ;)

If anyone can recommend any good sets to buy it would be much appreciated. I like really complicated things and long builds.

Then 8258 if you can still find it. All the gear trains in this set are wonderful. Also this set is a great parts pack for custom building. Some other options, but I do not own them are 42009 and 42008. Both look fairly complex as well (maybe 42008 more so than 42009, because it is much less "bulky").

8258 is a truly wonderful set to build. 42008 is a nice build but not so complicated like you would wish but it is a very nice set to get studless technic to know. There is a LA, two mini LA's and a little pneumatic. 42009 is a good choice too necause of its size and complexity. Of these different choices I would choose 8258 but it is expensive now because it is a little older.

Studded is generally better if you want to connect say a 24 tooth to a 20 tooth because you can put 5 or 6 lego plates between the two studded beams,

it is great as you can combine any gear with any other gear, also if you need lots of holes in a small space it can be good because it uses studs not pins to stack them along side or above one another.

Studded can be plugged together sideways and offset using jumpers, or the half stud clutch under the beams but if its below it has to be shorter, and if its above, it has to be wider than the target beam. Studded is more compatible with lego SYSTEM also

However studless can make it easier to have longer beams or holes close together as there is a 0L gap between having two aside or end to end where as studded have a overhang on the bottom and on each end. Also the studs kinda count to because they might get in the way with other parts. there are all sorts of bent beams and connectors for adding more pin/axle holes into small spaces with studless.

Studded brings back memories when I was a kid and even sets like 8463, 8448, 8880,8479, and 8462 seemed huge and way cooler, and more complex but everything is cooler as a child.

so they both have their flaws and drag backs depending on the application.

Edited December 27, 201311 yr by SNIPE

Both have their strengths and weaknesses but I think the reason for the change was cost savings. The newer beams are much easier to mould and require less plastic. As for long, complicated builds I guess 8110 and 42009 are your best bet as they both have over 2000 pieces. 42009 has the most parts but I personally prefer 8110 and I would try to get that one first because it is older, 42009 will be available from Lego for a couple of years yet.

Thanks all, will look into those different sets.

IMHO, the must-have new/studless 'retired' sets are below.

1. 8258 Crane Truck

2. 8043 Excavator

3. 8110 Unimog

4. 8455 Pneumatic BackHoe

5. 8070 Red Car

I'm in the same boat Cave Dweller (coming back to it and finding it's all different). I just bought a couple of little sets and the studless building system is a lot less intuitive. It's almost as if you have to think in 3D as opposed to 2D.

As for why LEGO did it, I echo the above sentiments; cost was probably one of the main motivators but also a desire for the models to look more "realistic". I personally see this as a downside, to me it looks less like LEGO and more like any other generic plastic toy. LEGO for me is studs and the challenge was making realistic looking models within these constraints. The other thing is that there is an ever expanding amount of special pieces; whereas years ago you had to use generic pieces in innovative ways to come up with something like a loader bucket or a crane hook, these days you don't.

I don't know whether or not it's just me, but I also feel that the quality of the pieces has dropped, the plastic that they are made of now seems to be more flimsy if that makes sense. The gears, bushes and axles also seem to have a "looser" feel.

Of course, this is the age of technology, screens and computers and so LEGO have had to move in these directions to compete. Luckily there is a plethora of places to get just about whatever set or pieces you want. For me, I'm going to try and combine the 2 eras. The fun is in the build no matter what!

Oh, and if you love Technic for the mechanics and aren't that fussed by vehicles there's always GBCs (Great Ball Contraption)!!!

As far as i can see, the parts have not become flimsy.

But some parts are not well engineered (looking at wheel hubs for example).

Studless is the logical step from normal studded building and allows for much more complex models within even smaller size constraints than in the past. I quite welcome that. :)

Perhaps it's just me. I'm not in any way criticising the quality. LEGO is one of the highest quality toys you can buy, I'm of no doubt over that. Can't quite get across what I mean. It's just the feel of the parts in the hand. The newer stuff just doesn't seem as robust. Perhaps it's because it weighs less.

I have never really noticed a difference in part weight, but studless parts are of a totally different design, so will naturally have a different weight. Also, about the "looser" parts - maybe it feels that way because the models are much more flexible? Studless builds tend to be much more bendable, especially long structures like 8285. It's because of the pinned construction, which is held together by very small and thin parts - the pins, and has more play (as in, flex) than the stud connections from pre-2000 Technic.

Also some parts have a looser grip on axles than older parts. I can remember very old 8t and 24t gears almost impossible to remove. I still ahve "axle pin + 8t gear" combinations from the light-gray-axle-pin era that seem unseparable. Many new gears, in my opinion thankfully, have a lot less tight grip on axles.

And, indeed, modern Technic might look slicker, it looks less "Lego-y".

It's the bushes and 8t gears that I am thinking about. Also the friction pins from way back seem tighter than the new stuff too. Odd considering that all my old stuff has been stripped and rebuilt many times, but the new stuff has only been rebuilt once. Perhaps it's just me.

Yeah, less LEGO-y is a good way to put it!

The older stuff, at least the bushes, half bushes and gears, was much more brittle and prone to cracking than today.

I like studded more, but i am just glad that we have more options with new studless. Good thing they are developed.

I prefer to combine both, to use each where its most appropriate and exploit the strength of each.

I think it feels less robust because it's not as sharp! :D I'm just like you guys, back in after a long hiatus. I'd recommend an 8430 as a mix of studless and studded building - and it's less expensive, too. I think some of it is the fact that because studless doesn't have any direct connection between beams (it's always a pin/axle), it has less "torsional rigidity" than a studded set where they are direct-connected and then most of the time double-braced as well.

As you may notice, old Technic bricks didn't disappear completely. So if needed you can still stock with new old Technic parts, probably, in more colours now.

Regarding new pins seeming less 'tight' than old pins ... I fully agree as I noticed that as well. However, it is possible that dimensions have changed, but equally likely the material being used has changed as well. This is rather obvious on the new 12/24T and all DB gears. The earlier versions were made of harder plastic ... the later version can easily be cut with an X-Acto knife. One added bonus of such 'softer' plastic is that parts seem more durable ... as I have not cracked a new half-bushing yet.

Edited December 27, 201311 yr by DrJB

Hi

studless parts are more versatile. They dont have a top, a bottom or correct way tomwork. Studded beams does have at least a top.

Imagine angled or L beams with studs. They would not work as good as studless beams work.

The last thing is that typically Technic sets and MOCsare moving in some way. For example a crane arm. If there are not tops or bottoms then their function and abilities never change while they are moving.

Dino

Because they are just way better.

Round ends also enables to do so many things impossible with studful.

By the way : http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=57658