To prevent the problems we had last year of cluttering up the next years speculation topic with arguments I've started this topic here as a place to really have it out without bringing another very hot topic down. There are those that think everything released by the technic team is just fine and dandy and wonderful whilst there are others (like me) that think it's all getting very stale by keeping to one design style that offers little in the way of fulfilling the potential technic has to offer or meeting it's core values, especially authenticity (which has far more to it that just looking like what it's supposed to be). I think you guys know where I stand already but I'll be glad to clarify anything. So, let the rage wars commence! But remember, an opinion is an opinion, not a personal attack and a technic designer is an employee following orders just like any other employee so for any of you designers reading this, we're not blaming you . One more thing, if you have an opinion or complaint please try to explain it otherwise it's just whining.

Edited January 6, 201411 yr by allanp

In closed discussion on TB Conchas say that pickup up set will have winch and tipper.After some comment on my LUG i get suspicious.

This sounds like another tow truck!How many technic TT we have for last few years?Dozen?If is turn to be another pick up TT Im must say that there is some TT lover in lego designer team .

What about truck with beton pump, cement mixer or another construction machinery that never seen daylight.

So I really think, that there is some lack of new models, like police set every year.But If tow truck variety sell well and peoples dont have problem with that, nothing we can change.

Edited January 6, 201411 yr by Ondra

My problem is that the technic designer keep reusing old concepts and do not improove things a bit.

Since i'm a car guy i'll make the point with supercar design, but it applies in other areas aswell.

The last major revolution in lego supercar design was 8880. The supercars before it each added something unique to the table and 8880 topped it all off with the best suspension/drivetrain/gearbox combo.

Since then, all lego supercar suspensions and gearbox designs have been more or less the same. In the past 20 years all supercars used the same suspension design, recycled over and over, all while there was so much potential for interesting setups.

Also in gearbox designs, so much potential with realistic gearbox designs and gears that could be used in other areas other than gearboxes.

Same with chassis design. The only new thing 8448 brought to the table was panels as a design element, technically it was a step backward since its suspension and drivetrain were just like 8865.

What i want from lego (and i'd like to state that i'm willing to design the thing myself) is to make a supercar with some multilink suspension to really push the boundaries.

For that we need new low profile wheels that have the same cicrumference as unimogs, with bigger wheels with much more inset and room for suspension components and we need new wheel hubs that will have the 3 pin fastening mechanism for the wheel on one side and room for the big CV joint from the 8880 on the other side. THEN we can talk.

I'd make such an awesome audi S5 or similar front and rear multilink chassis with the new panels, working door latches, crowkillers designed killer gearbox, quattro awd system, simple motorisation/rc upgradability and perhaps even some fancy inboard brakes. With the new big square panels and the liftarm box frames its easier than ever to make a big parts efficient unibody chasis that is very rigid and light.

All we need are just new wheels and new wheel hubs and lego technic will move into a whole new dimension. This car would be so much fun to drive, even just with the HOG steering, because it would have the suspension it deserves.

Would love to put the word "super" back into lego supercar.

What I'm wishing TLG would do is give us more stuff WITHOUT wheels. There are too few sets that aren't cars, trucks, or construction equipment. We need more of the other stuff! We've had what, 2 or 3 snowmobiles, so I'd say we're kind of good on them. We've had the 1 "Snow Groomer," a handful of airplanes, one submarine, one 'standard' boat, and a handful of hovercraft. Helicopters have recently been added to as well, which is nice. More boat-y stuff would be neat, a sailboat with pulleys for raising sails and gearing for rudder/mast controls. Catamaran? Other submersibles? They've given us a big hovercraft in the B-model of the new Cargo Plane. Paddlewheel ferry, anyone?

Give us stuff that's not a vehicle! How about a PF snowblower for clearing sidewalks? Or a lawnmower? They'd both have a fair number of 'Technic functions' while breaking from the "another car, another crane, another truck" slump that seems to be occurring.

Edited January 6, 201411 yr by NevynPA

@ Ondra

Ok so if they must release yet another tow truck because they sell well then we have to live with that, however it does not have to be the same old thing. kids like tow trucks and they like RC. Ok, so they can make an RC tow truck, just like we can out of our own parts and minds. But now lets make it interesting. A tow truck needs to haul heavy loads, and the technic design team seems desperate to make everything RC, so lets add in a new diff to make things better, like this one.

http://www.brickshel...ff_exploded.jpg

This will make things better should they want to make more stuff remote controlled as the current diff is a bit weak for that purpose and it will also make the tow truck better as it will be able to tow heavy loads and give us a nice new part. A tow truck also needs to have good, robust suspension, like all heavy trucks. the technic design team also likes giving us lots and lots of trucks, so lets add in some new leaf spring parts. this will make the set better still as well as improving many future technic sets by having these new parts available. Already we have made a new concept for an RC tow truck that kids will love (as it's an RC tow truck) as well as long time adult fans who will like the new diff and realistic live axles with it's leaf springs. So far this could be done in a mid scale set. we could go further with long pneumatics to make a telescopic boom and with real lifting power and a gearbox. This is why I don't think the problem is that they are limited to things kids will recognise and love (generic looking tow trucks, cranes, excavators and so on), it's that they don't seem to even want to try to realise the potential of their sets. If there is to be a new tow truck in 2014, will it be new and authentic with a reason to buy it, or will it have no suspension, no diff or a standard one driving a fake engine and all movements driven unrealistically by gears and LAs, like what's been done in not only every recent tow truck, but pretty much every recent set?

Edited January 6, 201411 yr by allanp

Where does winch, tipper or pick-up suggest a Tow-Truck?

Maybe Pick-up is not the best term, as we don't know yet the official name of the set in English.

It could be any of these: Custom / Customized Truck, or Custom / Customized Pick-up

Ok, here's my two cents.... I am in agreement with allanp as far as the "staleness" of recent years. My issue is with parts. How hard would it be to make bushings in black? How about releasing parts packs again?

I'm with nicjasno on the wheels in particular. It's frustrating being unable to have wheels pivot around their center axis, or do other suspension systems (even MacPherson, let alone more complex things).

I'd love to see a walking robot or dinosaur done with motors and PF, with the option to outfit it with Mindstorms. This could have a number of B-models to it continuing the theme (different kinds of dinosaurs, biped/quadriped/multiped robots) or even multiple sets.

Maybe they could do a crossover with Town such as a harbor or railroad crane.

What I am really hoping for in 2014 is another tedious driving ring gearbox, with one toggle on each side of the model to switch between functions.

These are always really fun to build, what with all the interesting new ways to use a driving ring and some 16t gears. And they always expand my mind by showing me intricate new mechanisms, like, how to use driving rings and clutches. Again. Still, there's always something new, like sometimes axle joiners are used as the control levers, and other models use ball joints. So there is innovation.

I also really like the way they fill up the mid-section of the model, and the way the chassis is designed around them. It prevents me doing anything silly like modifying the functions of the set, or adding more functions. This is stuff I did to a lot of sets as a child, and it's nice to know that it's now really hard as it prevents kids and AFOLs messing up the sets.

The one place I'd wind my neck in on this is 8043. For non-english, English speakers, I am serious in the following comment, and not in the ones before: for my money, 8043 is the best designed, most playable RC Technic set yet, and the driving ring gearboxes and the drive through the slew ring make complete sense. Yes, it could have used motors in the chassis, but I think that's actually less interesting than showing the use of the gearbox as an alternative to more motors. Kids love it, AFOLs love it. It's just fun, and makes a nice clunk when you change functions.

Edited January 6, 201411 yr by andythenorth

Personally I think we need more sets that are connected or related to each other in a single year, like they did in 1990 with the rally theme.

http://technicopedia.com/1990.html

"Finally, there were 3 sets in a new "Rally" series. A small 6 wheeled car featured 4 wheel steering. A buggy featured the new engine system and rear suspension. The large truck featured rack and pinion steering and a V-6 engine."

Edited January 6, 201411 yr by Paul B

Where does winch, tipper or pick-up suggest a Tow-Truck?

Maybe Pick-up is not the best term, as we don't know yet the official name of the set in English.

It could be any of these: Custom / Customized Truck, or Custom / Customized Pick-up

I see small dump truck bodies (almost typed dumb truck ) mounted to a large pick-up style frames, frequently with front or rear winches, very often around town, at gardening centers, with landscapers, etc..

Maybe something like this?

Kidding aside, I'd like to see something with multiple feet, legs or arms rather than wheels. My son would love to get robots, dinosaurs, sister-scaring spiders, etc... all RC of course

Edited January 6, 201411 yr by JGW3000

I agree with NevynPA - something other than vehicles! Maybe the recent 'Triple' competition winners (#1 and#2 non-vehicles) showed the demand?

Hey, it's THIS discussion again! Oh goodie!

(leaves)

I agree with NevynPA - something other than vehicles! Maybe the recent 'Triple' competition winners (#1 and#2 non-vehicles) showed the demand?

I wrote it in the 2014 blah blah entry too. The results showed AFOL demand (or more like interest). The winner entry doesn't do well on Cuusoo.

Blah Blah Blah it isn't what we used to have, (even if we didn't) so it sucks. I see this argument all the time. But yes, we're not really at a high point in terms of set design.

Lego is marketed for kids, not AFOLs. Lego is selling really, really well. End of discussion.

Hey, it's THIS discussion again! Oh goodie!

(leaves)

Haha, more or less my thoughts when seeing the thread title

Edited January 6, 201411 yr by jantjeuh

What I'm wishing TLG would do is give us more stuff WITHOUT wheels. There are too few sets that aren't cars, trucks, or construction equipment. We need more of the other stuff! We've had what, 2 or 3 snowmobiles, so I'd say we're kind of good on them. We've had the 1 "Snow Groomer," a handful of airplanes, one submarine, one 'standard' boat, and a handful of hovercraft. Helicopters have recently been added to as well, which is nice. More boat-y stuff would be neat, a sailboat with pulleys for raising sails and gearing for rudder/mast controls. Catamaran? Other submersibles? They've given us a big hovercraft in the B-model of the new Cargo Plane. Paddlewheel ferry, anyone?

Give us stuff that's not a vehicle! How about a PF snowblower for clearing sidewalks? Or a lawnmower? They'd both have a fair number of 'Technic functions' while breaking from the "another car, another crane, another truck" slump that seems to be occurring.

I'm with nicjasno on the wheels in particular. It's frustrating being unable to have wheels pivot around their center axis, or do other suspension systems (even MacPherson, let alone more complex things).

I'd love to see a walking robot or dinosaur done with motors and PF, with the option to outfit it with Mindstorms. This could have a number of B-models to it continuing the theme (different kinds of dinosaurs, biped/quadriped/multiped robots) or even multiple sets.

Kidding aside, I'd like to see something with multiple feet, legs or arms rather than wheels. My son would love to get robots, dinosaurs, sister-scaring spiders, etc... all RC of course

Hear hear. I love both old and new styles of building, but the Control Centres I and II have so much more variety than all of the recent stuff. The Spirograph MOC, the juge array of GBC modules and the recent competition's insects and non-wheeled items all show that anything is possible. So why don't TLG produce them? Beats me.

Hear hear. I love both old and new styles of building, but the Control Centres I and II have so much more variety than all of the recent stuff. The Spirograph MOC, the juge array of GBC modules and the recent competition's insects and non-wheeled items all show that anything is possible. So why don't TLG produce them? Beats me.

There's a simple answer: Nobody buys stuff like that. Keep in mind, us AFOLs, are seriously in the minority.

There's a simple answer: Nobody buys stuff like that. Keep in mind, us AFOLs, are seriously in the minority.

Yup. Something insect- or dinosaur-based might sell, though, especially in the smaller sets aimed at younger kids. Bugs and dinosaurs have eternal appeal, though maybe mostly to a younger age bracket than Technic is targeted towards now.

The real thing has electronically operated valves and planetary reduction in the wheel hubs. So why not just aim for that and make it not only appealing to kids but also more appealing to adults looking for realism whilst also making the set more unique and fun to build as it would not feel like every other set build feels today.

Well the real thing is made of steel, and not plastic.

Realism? Then pneumatics in front loaders are out the door, bring in the hydraulics! and messy oil everywhere, building hydraulic machines is messy, so now its realistic.

Full metal build, complete with nuts and bolts, hydraulics, and with 20 pounds of electronics and computers, that would be a fun build!

but hey, its LEGO and i think TLG makes a good job that suits the target group (not us adults) well.

my 2 swedish krona.

Edited January 6, 201411 yr by Eigenbroetler

what about clock - something simply or with PF

what about clock - something simply or with PF

You really think kids are going to buy that? Remember, Lego is marketed towards kids.

Unfortunately, I think what Jantjeuh said is the absolute truth- LEGO is marketed towards kids, and they have to be buildable and enjoyable for even the most simple-minded of children.

But one thing pointed out by many- where are the universal sets? They allow so much creativity and there are even three models that come with instructions. How is that not fun for a child? They can build one model, take it apart and build the second model, and play with that one. When they're done with the second one, they can build and play with the third model, and it doesn't end there. The possibilities with just one universal set are endless! It encourages children to make something on their own and innovate in new ways.

Sure, recent Technic sets have one aspect in common- they are easy to build, and they have basic functions that will work just well enough for a small child to enjoy them. Driving ring gearboxes are easy to operate- just switch the lever, turn on the motor, and it operates one of two functions. It's pretty unrealistic, but so are the mechanisms in the universal sets from the 80s-90s; so what, right? The problem here is that there is no excuse for LEGO to be using such lame, unrealistic mechanisms with the capabilities of modern parts.

Take the arm and bucket tilting mechanism of 8069, for example. First, the lifting of the arm. This is done by the cheapest, easiest, and simplest method- manual LA's. Yuck. It's a pain in the @ss to move, and tell me that real backhoe loaders have bucket arms operated by linear actuators. OK, so like Eigenbroetler said, pneumatics aren't hydraulics. Technically speaking, they're a bit unrealistic; also technically speaking, LA's are a pile of megabl*cks. How difficult can it possibly be to just use pneumatics? There is so much empty space in the vehicle, there is more than enough room for a pump and valves for both lifting the bucket arm and tilting the bucket. Plus, how cool is it to have tubing routed through the model- it gives a very realistic look. Now I'll look at the bucket tilting mechanism- the worst part of the model. Since this separate rant (which is kind of aside from my point about the universal sets) is getting a bit too long, I won't go into detail about this hunk of junk to get back on topic. Simply said, it barely works. (and yes, it includes worm gears and flimsy linkages. >:/)

Of course, like I said before, the mechanisms in the universal sets are just as unrealistic. For example, the boom of the tow truck in 8034 is lifted by a crank and a tie rod:

But realism aside, there is a difference- they are so innovative. Think of the parts available at the time- LEGO had only the mere basics. Technic beams, axles, gears, and pin connectors. And look what they accomplished with just that. There was so much work put into designing mechanisms like the four- wheel steering, with just the simplest, non-specialized parts. Just take a good, hard look at this mechanism:

And tell me that isn't more innovative than using LA's, driving rings, and making the same old construction equipment.

So if LEGO wants to produce sets for kids, they should do it in the right way. Get rid of the megabl*cking sets for simpletons. Innovate, and get kids to build the right things with Technic; there is nothing good in the sets LEGO releases these days.

Just my two cents.

TLH

Precisely. I don't think we need so many new specialised parts each year. There are some holes that need to be filled, but more or less, we need more innovative models with the parts available. I'm working on one, lets see if TLG will be interested.

My younger kids (boy and girl) eyes light up when they see gears, axles and motors - a (two) Universal Set(s) would be the best present ever for them! They try to build vehicles with functions using what they can from their City sets, but that is limited - imagine what they would do with a carefully chosen 200-500 part Technic Universal Set. Too many kids go for the easy way out - video games, TV, simple to follow BI's; IMHO guided free build is best and much more rewarding. Come to think of it, I should round up a bunch of my spare parts and make my own Universal Set for them (next project )