LEGO Hobbit 2014

[Gibbon]

This is not true. We discussed this awhile back. The five armies were the elves, dwarves, humans, orcs, and eagles. If the wargs were considered their own army, why weren't the bats who fought with the orcs also considered their own? I believe they are categorized the way they are because of how each faction arrived to the fight and their previous alliance before the battle happened. What I mean by this is the orcs came with the wargs and bats already in an alliance. The eagles just came out of the blue on their own accord, they weren't in a previous alliance with the elves or men or any of the other factions. No one even knew they would show up.

Here is a little further evidence: "As the battle was turning fully against the Free Folk, a number of Giant Eagles of the Misty Mountains arrived (the fifth army), led by the Great Eagle." If that weren't enough, PJ has apparently stated the five armies are the men, dwarves, elves, orcs, and eagles. Lego's set supports this claim by making sure to include at least one figure from each of the five armies. With that said I agree the eagle is a lame creature, and probably the worst molded creature of all the Middle-Earth ones. I would have MUCH preferred Beorn in bear form.

I think that you are wrong about that. For a decent evidence it is the best to check what J. R. R. Tolkien wrote about the Battle of the Five Armies:

"So began a battle that none had expected; and it was called the Battle of Five Armies, and it was very terrible. Upon one side were the Goblins and the wild Wolves, and upon the other were Elves and Men and Dwarves. " (Chapter 17: The Clouds Burst)

Accordiing to that the Eagles must be considered to be the SIXTH army joining the battle.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Gibbon

[legofreak86]

Just saw some terrible quality pics on another site. My Thoughts!

Dol Guldur: Not Bad, Brand new golden Armour Elrond using the LOTR hair piece, Galadriel looks cool, I like the look of witch king. I reckon that wall fits into the current set.

Lake town: Pretty good: Bard is the same, I like the new Tauriel, I like the new orc hairpieces, Bain looks decent, the set itself looks like a nice add on to Laketown. NO BOLG!!! That's a shame unless this is still a prelim and one of those orcs is a stand in for him.

BO5A: Hmmm an odd set to be sure doesn't help that the image I'm looking at is cut off so you can only see the side of the set with thorin on the bridge.I have a feeling there is more on the other side of box. Minifigure wise: Good to get armoured Thorin,Dain is hard to see but looks alright, ANOTHER LEGOLAS UGH, maybe he is a stand in for armoured thranduil. I can't tell but is bard the blue coat one?

The entire wave seems a bit lacklustre but at least we get some good figures and the laketown and dol guldur are good. I was expecting more from BO5A but oh well.

[Kez]

It is the zipline piece, most recently seen in Spinlyn's Cavern and Battle for Ninjago City.

Thanks for that, I hadn't realised it had been in any recent sets, I may consider buying it now.

[legofreak86]

JUST noticed! Azog has a new face! Its an angry one as the original had a grin. Nice to see they are trying variation. ALSO BARD'S FACE IS BATTLE DAMAGED IN LAKETOWN Like burnt or scarred or something. His coat also looks burned and tauriel seems to have a new angry face.

Edited August 13, 2014 by legofreak86

[Deathleech]

I've just realized how lucky we've been: according to lordofthebricks.com, TLG has requested that the pictures not be published before October 15th That means, if the factory leak hadn't happened, we wouldn't have gotten to see anything for the next two months Now that would have been agonizing!

I am sure TRU will have the sets available a few weeks early like they do with all waves. You are right though, waiting another month and a half would have been very difficult, to say the least. Then again maybe we could still hold onto our false hope for a great wave

Btw, why do people keep saying Elrond can be used as an army builder for the elves? While his torso and legs probably will work fine for this, what do you plan to use for his head? We have nothing that looks remotely like an elvish Middle-Earth helm. The "common" elf ears and hair are still pretty rare and expensive unless you get blond. Do you guys plan on using third party accessories or something?

I think that you are wrong about that. For a decent evidence it is the best to check what J. R. R. Tolien wrote about the Battle of te Five Armies:

"So began a battle that none had expected; and it was called the Battle of Five Armies, and it was very terrible. Upon one side were the Goblins and the wild Wolves, and upon the other were Elves and Men and Dwarves. " (Chapter 17: The Clouds Burst)

Accordiing to that the Eagles must be considered as the SIXTH Army joining the battle.

That sentence seems to be causing a lot of confusion, but doesn't explicitly out line the armies. Heck, you could infer there are only two armies from that.. the good and bad sides. Yes it says the battle started, but maybe it's not listing all the armies yet? Tolkien couldn't tell us the eagles are an army at this point or it would spoil the story. Their arrival is a surprise. Also it mentions the goblins rode the wargs so they seem to be little more than mounts in the battle.. you don't include horses as an army when you state sides in war? Your argument is the same argument used before, but it makes little sense in my eyes. Why would you include the wargs as their own army but not the bats or eagles then? The eagles as their own army makes more sense because they were neutral good and had no affiliation with any of the armies prior to the battle. The goblins and wargs worked in tandem throughout the Hobbit novel. Regardless it doesn't really matter since PJ has apparently already stated the five armies in his movie are orcs, men, dwarves, elves, and the eagles. He said the orcs will have more than just wargs on their side, including some crazy creatures apparently and trolls. None of these are going to be their own army though, they all fall under the orcs.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Deathleech

[Lancethecat]

I think that you are wrong about that. For a decent evidence it is the best to check what J. R. R. Tolkien wrote about the Battle of the Five Armies:

"So began a battle that none had expected; and it was called the Battle of Five Armies, and it was very terrible. Upon one side were the Goblins and the wild Wolves, and upon the other were Elves and Men and Dwarves. " (Chapter 17: The Clouds Burst)

Accordiing to that the Eagles must be considered to be the SIXTH army joining the battle.

In the book, the wargs were very intelligent and independent, enough to qualify as an army. I'm guessing that the Great Eagles are going to be considered the fifth army in 'The Battle of the Five Armies' because, in the Peter Jackson movies, the wargs have basically been reduced to the orc equivalent of horses.

Azog should have still come with his own white warg, though, since we weren't able to get them together in the Attack of the Wargs set.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Lancethecat

[legofreak86]

Does anyone else also notice for each set the banner at the top for the boxart is different. For BO5A it is erebor with mist, for dol guldur it is some white glowy structure and for laketown there is the sky with some forest nearby. Also for BO5A there has to be some other threat on the other side attacking legolas and bard as the only two orcs in the set are fighting Thorin and Dain. I reckon there is something else going on on the other side with another threat, a troll? a warg? Beorn?

Edited August 13, 2014 by legofreak86

[Dr.Cogg]

I think Lego should have done this to make these set look better:

#1Get rid of Legolas,Tauriel, regular Bard and replace with Iron Hill Dwarfs and Armored Elfs

#2 Better builds that look more like there locations

#3 Use the old troll helmet in dark Bley and the Moria orc prints with brown cloth for the Armored Orcs.

#4 use the Lego bear with new prints as Bear Beorn

#5 Use the Azog mold with new prints to make Bolg

#6 replace Witch King( I like this Minifig) with Sauron

P.S. Is that Shredder behind the Orc.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Dr.Cogg

[Darth Punk]

I'm sure we will see official images before October 15. TLG just doesn't want us to know when until they are ready to do so. And they never want to see leaked photos, unless they are doing the leaking.

I am sure TRU will have the sets available a few weeks early like they do with all waves. You are right though, waiting another month and a half would have been very difficult, to say the least. Then again maybe we could still hold onto our false hope for a great wave

Btw, why do people keep saying Elrond can be used as an army builder for the elves? While his torso and legs probably will work fine for this, what do you plan to use for his head? We have nothing that looks remotely like an elvish Middle-Earth helm. The "common" elf ears and hair are still pretty rare and expensive unless you get blond. Do you guys plan on using third party accessories or something?

That sentence seems to be causing a lot of confusion, but doesn't explicitly out line the armies. Heck, you could infer there are only two armies from that.. the good and bad sides. Yes it says the battle started, but maybe it's not listing all the armies yet? Tolkien couldn't tell us the eagles are an army at this point or it would spoil the story. Their arrival is a surprise. Also it mentions the goblins rode the wargs so they seem to be little more than mounts in the battle.. you don't include horses as an army when you state sides in war? Your argument is the same argument used before, but it makes little sense in my eyes. Why would you include the wargs as their own army but not the bats or eagles then? The eagles as their own army makes more sense because they were neutral good and had no affiliation with any of the armies prior to the battle. The goblins and wargs worked in tandem throughout the Hobbit novel. Regardless it doesn't really matter since PJ has apparently already stated the five armies in his movie are orcs, men, dwarves, elves, and the eagles. He said the orcs will have more than just wargs on their side, including some crazy creatures apparently and trolls. None of these are going to be their own army though, they all fall under the orcs.

I know we have had this conversation before as I was confused myself. It seems Tolkien is vague on this part and seems to shift around who might be included as the five. Perhaps Tolkien could never truly decide this point thus leaving it vague on purpose letting the reader to,decide for themselves.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Darth Punk

[Gibbon]

That sentence seems to be causing a lot of confusion, but doesn't explicitly out line the armies. Heck, you could infer there are only two armies from that.. the good and bad sides. Yes it says the battle started, but maybe it's not listing all the armies yet? Tolkien couldn't tell us the eagles are an army at this point or it would spoil the story. Their arrival is a surprise. Also it mentions the goblins rode the wargs so they seem to be little more than mounts in the battle.. you don't include horses as an army when you state sides in war? Your argument is the same argument used before, but it makes little sense in my eyes. Why would you include the wargs as their own army but not the bats or eagles then? The eagles as their own army makes more sense because they were neutral good and had no affiliation with any of the armies prior to the battle. The goblins and wargs worked in tandem throughout the Hobbit novel. Regardless it doesn't really matter since PJ has apparently already stated the five armies in his movie are orcs, men, dwarves, elves, and the eagles.

I see this sentence of Tolkien on quote to be a chrystal clear list of the armies fighting the Battle of the Five Armies. I really doubt that it is a mere chance that Tolkien is to list exactly FIVE sections in the sentence preceding the one that is calling the battle 'The Battle of the Five Armies'... This sentence is without doubt the strongest evidence we have on this topic and anything else is not much more than theoretical argumentation, even if your logic on the Eagles to be somehow more neutral seems reasonable to me. The interpretation used by PJ doesn't seem like a decisive evidence as the movie differs from the book at a couple of details. Yes, this is pretty confusing question as there are more than five armies actually (not to mention the lonely Shape Shifter) but to say for sure that the Eagles are the fifth on the list for sure is pretty unreasonable at least.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Gibbon

[BrickBob Studpants]

Also for BO5A there has to be some other threat on the other side attacking legolas and bard as the only two orcs in the set are fighting Thorin and Dain. I reckon there is something else going on on the other side with another threat, a troll? a warg? Beorn?

There's definitely a threat on the right side: the arrows fired by the ballista But you're right, there might be another creature I wouldn't count on it however, since the eagle is shown in the minifig box and I assume that the other creature would also show up there if there was one

[Gibbon]

In the book, the wargs were very intelligent and independent, enough to qualify as an army. I'm guessing that the Great Eagles are going to be considered the fifth army in 'The Battle of the Five Armies' because, in the Peter Jackson movies, the wargs have basically been reduced to the orc equivalent of horses.

Yes, your logic might be right but the most important evidence is the one we have in the book and not the one of PJ's movie. Anyway I could accept the Eagles to be the fifth army but this is pretty far from being a fact for sure.

[legofreak86]

There's definitely a threat on the right side: the arrows fired by the ballista But you're right, there might be another creature I wouldn't count on it however, since the eagle is shown in the minifig box and I assume that the other creature would also show up there if there was one

I can't imagine what Bard and Legolas would be doing on the other side unless they are fighting each other LOL. I reckon theres something on the other side. They don't show the wargs as figures in the tree set from 2012. maybe theres a warg or another creature they aren't showing. Maybe something partially brick built so it is too big to be a minfigure.

[Blazej_Holen]

I believe it's $60, not 50. Most people are really unhappy with the minifigure selection, not the actual build (though it looks like a large-ish part of the build is a catapult that no one really wants). What we can see of the build just isn't helping matters. Also what do you mean everyone freaked out over the early images of the Lonely Mountain set? We saw the official image first which gave us a great view, then saw some additional angles. I don't think it really changed many people's opinions...? Most still think the build is garbage, it has too few minifigures, and is over priced at $130?

Not everyone, like I postet before, Lonelyn Mountain set has too many possibilities for modding. And it is overpriced becausee of the Smaug. For the first time when I saw it - it dissapointed me but on the second thought it is good set, really good one.

[BrickBob Studpants]

I can't imagine what Bard and Legolas would be doing on the other side unless they are fighting each other LOL.

Hiding cowardly from the arrows being launched towards them? Seriously though, I can't wait to see what the rest of the set has in store for us

[SMC]

Hiding cowardly from the arrows being launched towards them? Seriously though, I can't wait to see what the rest of the set has in store for us

I think that is all we get, we thought there was more to the main set but that was it, just too much wishful thinking

[Deathleech]

I see this sentence of Tolkien on quote to be a chrystal clear list of the armies fighting the Battle of the Five Armies. I really doubt that it is a mere chance that Tolkien is to list exactly FIVE sections in the sentence preceding the one that is calling the battle 'The Battle of the Five Armies'... This sentence is without doubt the strongest evidence we have on this topic and anything else is not much more than theoretical argumentation, even if your logic on the Eagles to be somehow more neutral seems reasonable to me. The interpretation used by PJ doesn't seem like a decisive evidence as the movie differs from the book at a couple of details. Yes, this is pretty confusing question as there are more than five armies actually (not to mention the lonely Shape Shifter) but to say for sure that the Eagles are the fifth on the list for sure is pretty unreasonable at least.

Well regardless he has to call it the Battle of Five Armies at that point because that's what the battle is called. He can't list the first four armies (men, dwarves, elves, and orcs/wargs) and say this is the Battle of Four Armies, then change the name to Battle of Five armies later when the eagles arrive. Do people ever consider maybe Tolkien PURPOSELY made it seem like the wargs were one of the five armies, without actually stating it, so later on the eagles would be that much more of a surprise? I strongly suspect the eagles are the fifth army because it's the only logical explanation. Surely if the wargs are their own army, the eagles would be too (and maybe even the bats)? It doesn't necessarily work the other way around though, since the eagles weren't working with any of the factions prior to the battle. Heck, no one even knew they were going to arrive. How do you explain the wargs being their own army if the eagles aren't one...?

I will say it's not crystal clear which five factions are armies. I am just basing it off logic. Tolkien says a lot of things in his books and then goes back and contradicts them later. He calls orcs goblins throughout the Hobbit, when for all intents and purposes they are the same race. He lists wargs as mounts for the goblins, but also talks about them being intelligent creatures. When he first list the dwarves, men, elves, wargs, and goblins, why doesn't he also list the bats? I would say THIS is a stronger indicator that the wargs are their own army than anything, leaving the bats off when they have already been talked about. You say it's unreasonable to state the eagles are the fifth army for sure, but I think it's unreasonable to state the wargs are just because Tolkien states it's the Battle of Five Armies and list five races (before all were even present). Maybe it was a coincidence? Maybe it was him trying to purposely deceive readers? At any rate, it doesn't make sense.

[Blazej_Holen]

Btw why Whitch King has dark metal crown? Its shame that he is not in white all...after all he is wraith...

[legofreak86]

I know this isn't nearly what we hoped, but the way I see it at least we get some new figures, a couple of movie accurate variants and the only figure that's a repeat is legolas the rest all have new printing, Faces etc. I reckon the other side of the BO5A set has something cool in store for us. I might be in the minority but I was hoping for Travel tauriel. We can't exactly say we don't have many orcs when we combine this years with last year's. Shame no Dwarves or Elves but at the very least we get several 3rd movie accurate characters. I wish legolas had his third movie gear and not his only worn once armour but oh well. Overall if we look at it. We get Smaug which is good, we get Elrond, Galadriel and Dain. Yes it would've been nice to have Beorn or Bolg but I have a feeling the reason they included Azog was that him and Thorin will have some sort of final battle and in a way he is the main antagonist of the movie who kids will remember. At least he has a new angry face. They may not have lived up to our expectations to the letter but lego have done a darn good job with the hobbit line, they have given us a cacophony of characters only missing a couple of important ones, they have pretty much represented accurately the biggest events of all three movies as far as I can tell. Leaving bag end, Escaping goblin town, finding the ring, escaping the orcs in the trees, Beorn, spiders in Mirkwood and capture by elves, Thranduil and the elves, The barrel escape, Lake town, Erebor fight with the dragon, Dragon attacking laketown and orcs fighting elves there, Looks like they have accurately represented all the scenes at dol guldur in all 3 movies, The battle of the five armies (well not entirely accurate but probably what the main characters are doing in the battle). Really they have covered 90 percent of the movies with some alterations in their sets. Its not a perfect job but I take my hat off to Lego for giving it a good try and giving us all something Hobbit to discuss on this forum for nearing 3 years now.

Edited August 13, 2014 by legofreak86

[Blazej_Holen]

I know this isn't nearly what we hoped but the way I see it at least we get some new figures, a couple of movie accurate variants and the only figure that's a repeat is legolas the rest all have new printing, Faces etc.. I reckon the other side of the BO5A set has something cool in store for us. I might be in the minority but I was hoping for Travel tauriel. We can't exactly say we don't have many orcs when we combine this years with last year's. Shame no Dwarves or Elves but at the very least we get several 3rd movie accurate characters. I wish legolas had his third movie gear and not his only worn once armour but oh well. Overall if we look at it. We get Smaug which is good, we get Elrond, Galadriel and Dain. Yes it would've been nice to have Beorn or Bolg but I have a feeling the reason they included Azog was that him and Thorin will have some sort of final battle and in a way he is the main antagonist of the movie who kids will remember. At least he has a new angry face. They may not have lived up to our expectations to the letter but lego have done a darn good job with the hobbit line, they have given us a cacophony of characters only missing a couple of important ones, they have pretty much represented accurately the biggest events of all three movies as far as I can tell. Leaving bag end, Escaping goblin town, finding the ring, escaping the orcs in the trees, Beorn, spiders in Mirkwood and capture by elves, Thranduil and the elves, The barrel escape, Lake town, Erebor fight with the dragon, Dragon attacking laketown and orcs fighting elves there, Looks like they have accurately represented all the scenes at dol guldur in all 3 movies, The battle of the five armies (well not entirely accurate but probably what the main characters are doing in the battle. Really they have covered 90 percent of the movies with some alterations in their sets. Its not a perfect job but I take my hat off to Lego for giving it a good try and giving us all something Hobbit to discuss on this forum for nearing 3 years now.

Nicely said :)

[legofreak86]

I think that is all we get, we thought there was more to the main set but that was it, just too much wishful thinking

A pair of steps?? Not going to happen. Even Lego knows that that wouldn't sell. Besides it looks like there is some sort of ruined building on the other side. That box width shown is clearly cut off its not long enough. Normal £60 length Is usually a bit longer than that as Black Gate and Bag end were. They can't justify £60 for some steps and a weird trebuchet when they charge the same for Bag end. There literally must be more to it.

Nicely said :)

Thanks :)

[Blazej_Holen]

A pair of steps?? Not going to happen. Even Lego knows that that wouldn't sell. Besides it looks like there is some sort of ruined building on the other side. That box width shown is clearly cut off its not long enough. Normal £60 length Is usually a bit longer than that as Black Gate and Bag end were. They can't justify £60 for some steps and a weird trebuchet when they charge the same for Bag end. There literally must be more to it.

Thanks :)

I am wondering why TLG put that Crossbow/Catapult in the set... Just WHY??? For kids?For function?

[Faefrost]

I am obviously in the minority around here. But I am not particularly outraged by these sets. I kind of like them. And I can see the path to all of the figure choices.

Witch King - as everyone seems to agree its a good set. Three fantastic figs. Galadriel works for both themes. We finally get a Witch King (granted not the RotK one) and a new armored Elrond. Heck Elrond could be a decent army builder. Use the torso with a hood and green cloak. Have them led by the GameStop Elrond. Not perfect, but a decent solution for armored elves of some kind.

Lake Town 2 - I think this is mostly what we expected. Yes it is a retread Bard. But it has to be. The entire scene is about Bard. He needs to be in the set. And it is sort of one of the most critical scenes of the trilogy. The scene picks up from the end of DoS so he is still dressed the same. The new Orc hairpieces seem decent. I suspect they are something that may be used going forward in other lines. And can be amortized as such. Whereas Orc helms might be copywriter to the movie and limited to license. Tauriel makes the theme a bit less of a sausage fest. The kid is useful for MOCs.

Battle of 5A - people got way way too wrapped up in fantasy must haves. It's a mid priced set. For that it covers representation of all 5 armies (as defined by Jackson) and it gives us the named characters that are what kids generally prefer to play with. We get Thorin King under the Mountain, we get Dain Ironfoot, we get Bard as the new leader of Laketown. There would be a few other "nice to haves" and yeah another Legolas. But Legolas is kind of kid bait. The Eagle is there because Jackson defines the Eagles as an Army and Worgs as simply part of the Orc force. Plus we have a Worg in an Army builder set currently on shelves. No eagles yet in Hobbit sets. Regardless of the books, Azog is the big bad of the movies. He is who will face off with Thorin I am sure. We were never real likely to see a Bolg, I'm sorry. Maybe if the line took off ala STar Wars we might have seen him in the fifth year or so. Most of the more general movie going Lego retail purchasers don't even know his name. (Granted they didn't know Yazneg either). Azog is the villain who stands out on screen. I think they dumped their entire bigfig budget into Smaug. Even with that the chances of seeing a new Boar or Ram mount would have been remote. The Ram might have risked prodding from Blizzard and the boar while much desired probably could not be amortized via the single set at that price point. I don't think there was ever much hope of Bear form Beorn. Everyone kept picturing this set as if it was the big tent pole set. It's not. That has always been Lonely Mountain.

Lonely Mountain - they gave us exactly what we pretty much demanded. A large articulated nicely detailed big fig custom Smaug. And on top of that it still seems a nice large set. The included characters don't seem unreasonable. The 4 Dwarf nobles in new torsos and a new Bilbo. Bilbo had to be in one of them. (And they only did the one and left out Gandalf this time. Color me surprised.) can't have the Hobbit sets on the shelf with no Hobbit any more than you can HP with no Harry blooming Potter. The actual build looks surprisingly dense in terms of things to play with or that reference parts of the film. The only disappointment is no gates of Erebor, but be honest, we all knew they could not do those justice in a retail set. They would need a $250-$300 UCS set.

So the disappointment in these isn't that Lego gave us bad sets. These seem like really good Bo5A movie sets. It's that you have wound yourselves and your expectations up so much that they have as usual exceeded any practical realities. (I guess that's why they call this genre "Fantasy")

Edited August 13, 2014 by Faefrost

[legofreak86]

I am obviously in the minority around here. But I am not particularly outraged by these sets. I kind of like them. And I can see the path to all of the figure choices.

Witch King - as everyone seems to agree its a good set. Three fantastic figs. Galadriel works for both themes. We finally get a Witch King (granted not the RotK one) and a new armored Elrond. Heck Elrond could be a decent army builder. Use the torso with a hood and green cloak. Have them led by the GameStop Elrond. Not perfect, but a decent solution for armored elves of some kind.

Lake Town 2 - I think this is mostly what we expected. Yes it is a retread Bard. But it has to be. The entire scene is about Bard. He needs to be in the set. And it is sort of one of the most critical scenes of the trilogy. The scene picks up from the end of DoS so he is still dressed the same. The new Orc hairpieces seem decent. I suspect they are something that may be used going forward in other lines. And can be amortized as such. Whereas Orc helms might be copywriter to the movie and limited to license. Tauriel makes the theme a bit less of a sausage fest. The kid is useful for MOCs.

Battle of 5A - people got way way too wrapped up in fantasy must haves. It's a mid priced set. For that it covers representation of all 5 armies (as defined by Jackson) and it gives us the named characters that are what kids generally prefer to play with. We get Thorin King under the Mountain, we get Dain Ironfoot, we get Bard as the new leader of Laketown. There would be a few other "nice to haves" and yeah another Legolas. But Legolas is kind of kid bait. The Eagle is there because Jackson defines the Eagles as an Army and Worgs as simply part of the Orc force. Plus we have a Worg in an Army builder set currently on shelves. No eagles yet in Hobbit sets. Regardless of the books, Azog is the big bad of the movies. He is who will face off with Thorin I am sure. We were never real likely to see a Bolg, I'm sorry. Maybe if the line took off ala STar Wars we might have seen him in the fifth year or so. Most of the more general movie going Lego retail purchasers don't even know his name. (Granted they didn't know Yazneg either). Azog is the villain who stands out on screen. I think they dumped their entire bigfig budget into Smaug. Even with that the chances of seeing a new Boar or Ram mount would have been remote. The Ram might have risked prodding from Blizzard and the boar while much desired probably could not be amortized via the single set at that price point. I don't think there was ever much hope of Bear form Beorn. Everyone kept picturing this set as if it was the big tent pole set. It's not. That has always been Lonely Mountain.

Lonely Mountain - they gave us exactly what we pretty much demanded. A large articulated nicely detailed big fig custom Smaug. And on top of that it still seems a nice large set. The included characters don't seem unreasonable. The 4 Dwarf nobles in new torsos and a new Bilbo. Bilbo had to be in one of them. (And they only did the one and left out Gandalf this time. Color me surprised.) can't have the Hobbit sets on the shelf with no Hobbit any more than you can HP with no Harry blooming Potter. The actual build looks surprisingly dense in terms of things to play with or that reference parts of the film. The only disappointment is no gates of Erebor, but be honest, we all knew they could not do those justice in a retail set. They would need a $250-$300 UCS set.

So the disappointment in these isn't that Lego gave us bad sets. These seem like really good Bo5A movie sets. It's that you have wound yourselves and your expectations up so much that they have as usual exceeded any practical realities. (I guess that's why they call this genre "Fantasy")

I agree with all of this. Good points here! I think the BO5A definitely has some sort of structure on the other side as we can't see bard or legolas. Figure wise: honestly I'm not really that bothered. The only thing its a shame not to get for me is Bolg ( I never expected any army builder figures) I always expected that we'd see named characters. I wish they'd made legolas his DOS and BO5A casual gear like with tauriel. All of the figures are new variants. The orcs are returning to the darker colour from LOTR and AUJ wave and have new hair, Tauriel has a new outfit, Thorin has a crown and armour, Bilbo has blue coat, new armoured company dwarves, New Elrond, Dain, new Galadriel, Smaug, Bain, New witch King, Bard has a new blue version, laketown bard's face is covered in scars and has a different angry look, Azog has an Angry face (opposed to his Smile in Dol Guldur). AS far as I can tell that's all "new" figures other than legolas. Not bad for 4 sets.

The beauty of these waves is you can combine DOS and BO5A sets as they cross over. Thranduil may not be in armour but he's still got a sword he can still fight, the elves aren't armoured but they have been seen in the promo shots in dale, all the Dol Guldur stuff can combine into one huge sequence. In fact character wise maybe that's what Lego were going for. Maybe they intend you to put everything together and it all forms into one huge sequence from BO5A, maybe Beorn fights there in Bo5A. Remember when Lego were given plans for sets these two films were one film maybe they always intended for the dol guldur sections to form a big scene there from BO5A. It would explain Gandalf and Rad in Dol Guldur together and it would explain Beorn being there and maybe that elf wall fight with Thranduil maybe that is based on what has become BO5A. I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised if this all connects after we've seen BO5A. Especially Dol Guldur scenes.

[Gibbon]

Well regardless he has to call it the Battle of Five Armies at that point because that's what the battle is called. He can't list the first four armies (men, dwarves, elves, and orcs/wargs) and say this is the Battle of Four Armies, then change the name to Battle of Five armies later when the eagles arrive. Do people ever consider maybe Tolkien PURPOSELY made it seem like the wargs were one of the five armies, without actually stating it, so later on the eagles would be that much more of a surprise? I strongly suspect the eagles are the fifth army because it's the only logical explanation. Surely if the wargs are their own army, the eagles would be too (and maybe even the bats)? It doesn't necessarily work the other way around though, since the eagles weren't working with any of the factions prior to the battle. Heck, no one even knew they were going to arrive. How do you explain the wargs being their own army if the eagles aren't one...?

I will say it's not crystal clear which five factions are armies. I am just basing it off logic. Tolkien says a lot of things in his books and then goes back and contradicts them later. He calls orcs goblins throughout the Hobbit, when for all intents and purposes they are the same race. He lists wargs as mounts for the goblins, but also talks about them being intelligent creatures. When he first list the dwarves, men, elves, wargs, and goblins, why doesn't he also list the bats? I would say THIS is a stronger indicator that the wargs are their own army than anything, leaving the bats off when they have already been talked about. You say it's unreasonable to state the eagles are the fifth army for sure, but I think it's unreasonable to state the wargs are just because Tolkien states it's the Battle of Five Armies and list five races (before all were even present). Maybe it was a coincidence? Maybe it was him trying to purposely deceive readers? At any rate, it doesn't make sense.

I agree with most of your logic, and of course I do not have any better information on the topic you have. That sentence seems - at least for me - as something like a 'definition' for the Battle of the Five Armies. Of course I do not have an unquestionable explanation for the Wargs being one of the armies but the Eagles aren't one. Whoever the five armies are, Tolkien is pretty confusing. Perhaps Tolkien left the eagles out of the five because they joined the fight LATER when the five armies to face each other were busy fighting.