Lynx Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 And if you had the chance of only same brown bear with print like i said or what you wanted to trade for? I'm sorry; I'm not sure I understand your question. Well i expected figures to BUILD an army, not named characters really. Its like having a set of the Avengers and in you would have unnamed soldiers.... kinda weird dont you think? hard to say that really, afterall, without them three, the ring might've never came to Faramir...... Fair point. Quote
Alcarin Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 I'm sorry; I'm not sure I understand your question. If it was Beorn only available as a recolor of the already existing Bear mold from City, would you still pick it over generic soldiers that were mentiond above (that set) Quote
Blazej_Holen Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Well i expected figures to BUILD an army, not named characters really. Its like having a set of the Avengers and in you would have unnamed soldiers.... kinda weird dont you think? hard to say that really, afterall, without them three, the ring might've never came to Faramir...... But point is that it will be still "battle of five minifigs". 69buck battlepack? Come on, I didnt hope for it not for one second. It was obvious that thre will be at least 2-3 main characters. And thats not armybuilding set at all. Yep I hoped for regular dwarf or elf, but on the other hand? I can easily create my own ones. Sur e without helmets (at least elves) but who cares. Quote
Lynx Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 If it was Beorn only available as a recolor of the already existing Bear mold from City, would you still pick it over generic soldiers that were mentiond above (that set) Hmmm, I tentatively say I would prefer the generic soldiers in that case. Quote
Alcarin Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 But point is that it will be still "battle of five minifigs". 69buck battlepack? Come on, I didnt hope for it not for one second. It was obvious that thre will be at least 2-3 main characters. And thats not armybuilding set at all. Yep I hoped for regular dwarf or elf, but on the other hand? I can easily create my own ones. Sur e without helmets (at least elves) but who cares. Well in a bit better way it would be Dain, Bolg/Azog(eventually) 2 Gundabad armored orcs, armored elf, armored Iron hill dwarf and eventually laketown soldier.......... and Dains mohawk should be removable..... that way only Azog/Bolg would be ''useless'' parts if repurchasing..... and the fight should happen around half ruined house that would easily be moddable into a ''new'' house to make a huge city.... easy :P But ye it sucks, 70$ for useless characters except for Dain and SDCC Bard.... Quote
Blazej_Holen Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Well in a bit better way it would be Dain, Bolg/Azog(eventually) 2 Gundabad armored orcs, armored elf, armored Iron hill dwarf and eventually laketown soldier.......... and Dains mohawk should be removable..... that way only Azog/Bolg would be ''useless'' parts if repurchasing..... and the fight should happen around half ruined house that would easily be moddable into a ''new'' house to make a huge city.... easy :P But ye it sucks, 70$ for useless characters except for Dain and SDCC Bard.... Wait a sec, that think on Dains helemet (that golden something) is not removable? I cannot believe in that. Its just some kind of "plume"... Regular grunts... I want them too, but Characters are characters. They have to create sets which can be used separately for playinf (for kids...) so thats why awe get alll those flick fire missiles, catapults and repeated heros like Loggy, or Bilbo, or Gandalf... Quote
deskp Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Wait a sec, that think on Dains helemet (that golden something) is not removable? I cannot believe in that. Its just some kind of "plume"... Does not looks removeable. Quote
Blazej_Holen Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Does not looks removeable. On the contrary it does look removable. Lokk at the picture an zoom on Dains head.. Quote
Pate-keetongu Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Look at the right upper corner of this photo, seems like Iron Hill helmets with sort of spike/mohawk/plume (?) on the top, so it still might be possible to use Dain's helmet as decent footsoldier helmet, even if the mohawk thingie is not removable. Quote
kevkipo Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) On the contrary it does look removable. Lokk at the picture an zoom on Dains head.. Then you could use it for Iron Hill warriors! :O im extra positive on a Iron Hill Polybag, I like these sets soooo much! And Bard in Lake-Town is NOT the same as we've gotten in LT chase it is burned and not only in the face! his clothes must be black and burned too, I just love everything about the Bo5a set, My Thorin and Co where getting a bit behind just fighting orcs, Now they have a huge FREAKING BALLISTA to smash down! :D Glad to see the orc's having some heavy weaponry What do i like the most about the battle set? The WHOLE build, new Bard, DAIN ( ), King Thorin (Hell-Yeah), New Azog! Im very positive about this wave! It's better than the second wave And Erebor... Well there are no words for that set :D Look at the right upper corner of this photo, seems like Iron Hill helmets with sort of spike/mohawk/plume (?) on the top, so it still might be possible to use Dain's helmet as decent footsoldier helmet, even if the mohawk thingie is not removable. Indeed you are right FANTASTIC!! Edited August 14, 2014 by kevkipo Quote
Deathleech Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) You are going away from the point here, the point is 5 armies fought in the battle of the 5 armies and the 6th army came in took side (they were neutral afterall) and finished the battle of the five armies...... The battle of the five armies is about five armies that fought WHOLE battle and that were wargs, orcs, men elves and dwarves..... Eagles came in and finished the fight...... Its like saying Army of the dead was the 5th army in clash (on screen) between Gondor, Rohan and Mordor, Haradrims and Easterlings....... they were the five armies battling and then Army of the dead came and finsihed the fight, eagles are equivalent of Army of the dead (on screen) Rohan didn't start the Battle at Pelennor Fields, they came almost a day later. Are they not considered part of the armies either then? I am sorry, but your logic is flawed. Edited August 14, 2014 by Deathleech Quote
Blazej_Holen Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Rohan didn't start the Battle at Pelennor Fields, they came almost a day later. Are they not considered part of the armies either then? I am sorry, but your logic is flawed. With all my respect, you´re putting apples and pears together... Quote
Lynx Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Everything is awesome! (paraphrased) I love your fan enthusiasm, mate. I'm sure LEGO could chuck a few yellow-headed pirates in a set with a pink brick-build haystack, call it 'Thorin and company', and you'd still love it. Really hope I could share your positiveness with these sets and maybe I'll warm up to them once I embrace the thought of using a generic brown bear as Beorn. And I totally hope you're correct about the polybag. I wouldn't get any here in Australia, but I'd at least brick link two or three to have somebody for Dain to lead. Quote
Alcarin Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Rohan didn't start the Battle at Pelennor Fields, they came almost a day later. Are they not considered part of the armies either then? I am sorry, but your logic is flawed. My logic is perfect for the battle of 5 armies. Yes Rohan came later bad comparrison for battle of 5 armies, regardless the reason stands firm However you turn it its the battle of the five armies and the 6th army joined at the end. thats all there is. Quote
Deathleech Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 With all my respect, you´re putting apples and pears together... Not at all? He was saying the eagles don't count as one of the five armies due to their tardiness in the battle. I was pointing out the exact same could be said about the U.S. in WWII, or Rohan in the Battle of Pelennor Fields since in both instances one of the factions showed up very late after the respective war had started. It's actually an almost identical scenario... lol? Quote
hollisbrick Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Finally saw some pictures. Not really impressed. Was hoping for Azog in a cheaper set. The witch king looks like an awesome set. And Lake town looks kinda cute I guess. But that's really it. The rest are pretty average... Quote
Alcarin Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) Not at all? He was saying the eagles don't count as one of the five armies due to their tardiness in the battle. I was pointing out the exact same could be said about the U.S. in WWII, or Rohan in the Battle of Pelennor Fields since in both instances one of the factions showed up very late after the respective war had started. It's actually an almost identical scenario... lol? Even if you want to pinpoint that, the battle after rohan arrival still took quite a long time, after eagles came it was the end pretty much instantely ...... Like at the black gates.... were eagles an army in that battle ofcourse not(but they are still an ''army'' overall), they came crashed on nazguls nazguls ran and army of mordor shattered and lost will due to events we all know Similar is here, Eagles are an army ofcourse, but not one of the five armies, they are the 6th army period. Edited August 14, 2014 by Alcarin Quote
Deathleech Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) Even if you want to pinpoint that, the battle after rohan arrival still took quite a long time, after eagles came it was the end pretty much instantely ...... The Battle of Pelennor fields was also a much longer and larger battle than the Bo5A. In the movies, it appears to last at least at least two full days and Rohan came about halfway through at the dawn on the second day. The Bo5A was what, several hours? So if the Eagles came the last few hours of a fight that's several hours long that's about the same comparatively to Rohan coming on the second day of a two day siege. It's hard to say how long the eagles were there because Bilbo gets knocked out as soon as they arrive. It may seem like they were only there a few minutes, but does it ever give actual time frames in the book? For all we know Bilbo was out for over half the battle or longer? I think you are assuming the eagles only showed up at the very end because Bilbo is telling the story first hand and when he gets knocked out, the last part is only summarized to him by Gandalf. Like at the black gates.... were eagles an army in that battle ofcourse not(but they are still an ''army'' overall), they came crashed on nazguls nazguls ran and army of mordor shattered and lost will due to events we all know Now THIS is a bad example. In the Hobbit, Tolkien specifically talks about the eagles gathering in great numbers. At the Black Gates there were what, maybe a dozen tops? That hardly constitutes a "great number" imo. This site talks about there being nearly 100 giant eagles at the Bo5A. 100 is now where near the same as a dozen. Also the eagles just come in and attack the Nazgul. They don't seem to have as big of role as they did in the Bo5A. Imho, I wouldn't consider any of the creatures their own army though, OR I would consider them all their own for continuity sake. Instead Tolkien seemed to pick and choose which were an "army". That's why I think it seems best to consider an army based on their alignment, there are no contradictions then. I mean if wargs and goblins were each a separate army in the Bo5A, why not the bats too? Will the trolls be in PJ version? The eagles? It's not even the Bo5A then, it's the battle of a dozen armies. Edited August 14, 2014 by Deathleech Quote
Alcarin Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 The Battle of Pelennor fields was also a much longer and larger battle than the Bo5A. In the movies, it appears to last at least at least two full days and Rohan came about halfway through at the dawn on the second day. The Bo5A was what, several hours? So if the Eagles came the last few hours of a fight that's several hours long that's about the same comparatively to Rohan coming on the second day of a two day siege. It's hard to say how long the eagles were there because Bilbo gets knocked out as soon as they arrive. It may seem like they were only there a few minutes, but does it ever give actual time frames in the book? For all we know Bilbo was out for over half the battle or longer? I think you are assuming the eagles only showed up at the very end because Bilbo is telling the story first hand and when he gets knocked out, the last part is only summarized to him by Gandalf. Actually assuming the books Battle of Pelennor fields was even longer but if we summarize the movies only then yes..... The point is the battle started without eagles and they came late, they were the army but not one of the five armies that battle is named after...... thats how i see it...... now we can argue whole day, but to me eagles look like an army that picked side and ended the battle of the five armies, they can be the army itself, but the battle was waged between the other 5 armies....... thats my point of view Also for me battle of the five armies lasted from relatively early morning up until late evening, a whole day, where Thorin fell late afternoon and Beorn showed about then with eagles a bit later.... i have no proof of the last sentence but thats the feeling i got from the book. I agree for continuity sake Tolkien should've been more explicit about what waas the army and what not, but to me all creatures/animals that talked were the army in Tolkien world if massed in numbers........ Especially for Hobbit.... Thats why i do not consider bats an army, because tehy do not talk but they still communicate.....then again those ''crows'' (forgot the right name) that took messages between thorin and dain could also be named an army, but they have no real fighting power so they can be left out. Now THIS is a bad example. In the Hobbit, Tolkien specifically talks about the eagles gathering in great numbers. At the Black Gates there were what, maybe a dozen tops? That hardly constitutes a "great number" imo. This site talks about there being nearly 100 giant eagles at the Bo5A. 100 is now where near the same as a dozen. Well 100 is also not a great number, compared to an army of thousands men if we would strictly judge by raw numbers, Eagles would never ever be an army, maybe a scouting party...... That's why it seems best to consider an army based on their alignment, there is no contradictions then. And who did the Eagles aligned to? Elves, men or dwarves? And if we go look alignement then there were only 2 armies, 1 good guys, and 1 bad guys, or whatever you prefer........ if you combine wargs and orcs in 1 army, then Dwarves and men and elves are also 1 army...... To me it makes most sense that wargs(+goblins) and Orcs are 2 armies and dwarves, men and elves are the other 3.... the 6th army (eagles) came in later and finished the conflict..... thats how i see most logic and still goes under the battle of the 5 armies tag. Quote
Blazej_Holen Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Not at all? He was saying the eagles don't count as one of the five armies due to their tardiness in the battle. I was pointing out the exact same could be said about the U.S. in WWII, or Rohan in the Battle of Pelennor Fields since in both instances one of the factions showed up very late after the respective war had started. It's actually an almost identical scenario... lol? Yeah but according to the original Tolkien´s Hobbit "Theres and back again" battle of five armies contains Elves, Man, Dwarfs, Wargs and Orcs. Eagles are mentioned in few sentences... Maybe in one sentence Bilbo": Eagles, eagles has come..and then he lost his consciousness..So this can be hardly count as a regular six army. Truth is that there was 7 armies (if u inculde bats as well...) Story depicted in LOTr is completely different and the battle on pelenor fileds doesnt call battle of ...dunno... 5 armies (Army of dead, Orcs, Haradrim, Gondor and Rohan), it calls battle of Pelenor fields. So its really out of place to compare these two battles and makes an argument from it. :) Finally saw some pictures. Not really impressed. Was hoping for Azog in a cheaper set. The witch king looks like an awesome set. And Lake town looks kinda cute I guess. But that's really it. The rest are pretty average... U can buy Azog with the DGB set. Quote
hollisbrick Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 U can buy Azog with the DGB set. DGB sorry? I'm not quite up with all the lingo yet Quote
Deathleech Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 (edited) Well 100 is also not a great number, compared to an army of thousands men if we would strictly judge by raw numbers, Eagles would never ever be an army, maybe a scouting party...... Well each eagle was the size of several men, so 100 eagles is like a few hundred men (if not more, unless you are basing it on Lego scale then one eagle is barely as big as a minifigure ). Also the Bo5A wasn't really that big compared to some of the battles in the LotR. You say 100 eagles isn't a lot but there were only 500 Iron Hill Dwarves and around 400 men in the battle. And who did the Eagles aligned to? Elves, men or dwarves? And if we go look alignement then there were only 2 armies, 1 good guys, and 1 bad guys, or whatever you prefer........ if you combine wargs and orcs in 1 army, then Dwarves and men and elves are also 1 army...... That's the point I am getting at. Before the battle even started the dwarves, men, and elves were all their own armies. They were all about to fight EACH OTHER. It was only when the goblins showed up that they aligned and decided to face them as a united force since they recognized the danger the goblins posed. The goblins showed up with the wargs and bats and had been working with them for most of the novel. In LotR, the wargs are used as mounts and hounds under Sauron's or Saruman's army. The eagles are never aligned with anyone. They are described as good neutral. They will often come in and help the free folk, but they are never asked for help nor is it expected they come because they are creatures that have their own free will. With the Wargs, they don't just show up out of the blue by their own accord. They are always with orcs or goblins prior. Story depicted in LOTr is completely different and the battle on pelenor fileds doesnt call battle of ...dunno... 5 armies (Army of dead, Orcs, Haradrim, Gondor and Rohan), it calls battle of Pelenor fields. So its really out of place to compare these two battles and makes an argument from it. :) I know it's not called the Battle of (insert number) Armies, but the Battle of Pelennor Field still had a certain number of armies partaking in it. Rohan is considered one of those said armies despite arriving late to the battle. Edited August 14, 2014 by Deathleech Quote
Blazej_Holen Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 Well each eagle was the size of several men, so 100 eagles is like a few hundred men (if not more, unless you are basing it on Lego scale then one eagle is barely as big as a minifigure ). Also the Bo5A wasn't really that big compared to some of the battles in the LotR. You say 100 eagles isn't a lot but there were only 500 Iron Hill Dwarves and around 400 men in the battle. That's the point I am getting at. Before the battle even started the dwarves, men, and elves were all their own armies. They were all about to fight EACH OTHER. It was only when the goblins showed up that they aligned and decided to face them as a united force since they recognized the danger the goblins posed. The goblins showed up with the wargs and bats and had been working with them for most of the novel. In LotR, the wargs are used as mounts and hounds under Sauron's or Saruman's army. The eagles are never aligned with anyone. They are described as good neutral. They will often come in and help the free folk, but they are never asked for help nor is it expected they come because they are creatures that have their own free will. With the Wargs, they don't just show up out of the blue by their own accord. They are always with orcs or goblins prior. I know it's not called the Battle of (insert number) Armies, but the Battle of Pelennor Field still had a certain number of armies partaking in it. Rohan is considered one of those said armies despite arriving late to the battle. Yep agreed but BOFa is called BOFa because of those 5 armiese excluding Eagles. Quote
Alcarin Posted August 14, 2014 Posted August 14, 2014 That's the point I am getting at. Before the battle even started the dwarves, men, and elves were all their own armies. They were all about to fight EACH OTHER. It was only when the goblins showed up that they aligned and decided to face them as a united force since they recognized the danger the goblins posed. The goblins showed up with the wargs and bats and had been working with them for most of the novel. In LotR, the wargs are used as mounts and hounds under Sauron's or Saruman's army. The eagles are never aligned with anyone. They are described as good neutral. They will often come in and help the free folk, but they are never asked for help nor is it expected they come because they are creatures that have their own free will. With the Wargs, they don't just show up out of the blue by their own accord. They are always with orcs or goblins prior. But the problem is army can still be set under the same alignement..... if 2 countries join forces they are stil l2 armies, even if they are doing that ''forever'' like wargs and Orcs/goblins and men and elves came to Erebor aligned just like goblins and wargs, that would (under your theory) make them 1 army and dwarves the other. So it kinda contradicts the theory. Unless you want to say: Army 1 = orcs Army 2 = Wargs (and goblins) Army 3 = Elves and men Army 4 = Iron Hill dwarves (and Thorins 13) Army 5 = Eagles That I might've accepted as a theory, but its again contradicting your theory of alignement...... Quote
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