Alcarin Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 I never quite understood this criticism. While no hooded Elves appear in DOS as far as I recall, people are acting like hooded Elves are an impossibility. Why can't Elves in general wear hoods? After all, an Elf wearing a helmet would be indistinguishable from a human wearing a helmet, so why can't the same apply to hoods? I myself see hoods as a very Elvish type of headgear. Not that I'm begrudging you guys, hairpieces in other haircolors would be neat, though not being an Elf-collector or fleshie collector I can't really appreciate it. Helmets, on the other hand, would be inappropriate for these scouts. It's just odd to hear the arguement apporached from this angle of Elves not being Elves if they wear hoods. The criticism is there because people here CLAIM that LEGO only makes figs/stuff based on MOVIE MATERIAL.... And then they go and make a FIG that was NOWHERE seen wearing a hood... see the logic? So on 1 side we have members who claim that LEGO has rights to make stuff based on MOVIE (seen in movie) and on the other they defend hoods that were never seen wearing them while shooting arrows.... isnt that kinda two-faced ??? Quote
tacozftw Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 personally i love the hooded figs. i feel like they look very elf-y, forest-y, ranger-y, in every way representing the vibe of sylvan elves. maybe only one of the elves should have been hooded, but at the same time i enjoy having 2 archers. Quote
Robert_88 Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 We've seen hooded elves in Helms Deep. I know they aren't from Mirkwood but as deskp already mentioned they have hoods as well. I think hooded elves aren't unrealistc at all. A new helmet would have been nice but I can understand if we don't get too many new molds. Quote
Alcarin Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 We've seen hooded elves in Helms Deep. I know they aren't from Mirkwood but as deskp already mentioned they have hoods as well. I think hooded elves aren't unrealistc at all. A new helmet would have been nice but I can understand if we don't get too many new molds. NO ELF fought or shoot arrows with hoods ON their head.... period in any movie let it be LOTR or Hobbit.... so its not realistic movie fig but made up by TLG.... The elves just came with hoods on during battle all had hoods removed and fought either in helmet or without helmet(Haldir) and its the same with Hobbit.... I am yet to see a hooded Elf fighting an Orc in Hobbit or LOTR :) Quote
Ardelon Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 That is incorrect. From the LotR Wiki: "Soon the Goblins, Wargs, and a cloud of Bats "like a sea of locusts" arrived (and now four armies were on the field)" - the other three obviously being men, dwarves, and elves "As the battle was turning fully against the Free Folk, a number of Giant Eagles of the Misty Mountains arrived (the fifth army), led by Gwaihir, Lord of the Eagles" If the Wargs and Orcs were considered two separate armies, then why weren't the bats like I said before? Sauron's forces are almost ALWAYS referred to as just one single entity despite usually being made up of several factions. For instance the War of the Last Alliance refers to the alliance between men and elves, and to a lesser extent the dwarves. It doesn't refer to the alliance between orcs, Haradrim, Easterlings etc. who were there. I assume thats how it will be in the film, where the Wargs are nto shown as an army in their own right, but as for the book, Tolkien had this to say: "So began a battle that none had expected; and it was called the Battle of Five Armies, and it was vey terrible. Upon one side were the Goblins and the wild Wolves, and upon the other were Elves and Men and Dwarves." (p237 of my edition of The Hobbit, chapter The Clouds Burst) To me, thats pretty conclusive proof that the Wargs are a separate army in the books, and the Eagles and Bats are not counted. After all, earlier in the book, the Wargs wee supposed to meet with the Goblins to carry out a raid on the Woodmen, which shows the Wargs were independent from the Goblins. This actually has on-topic significance: a 60USD BOFA army builder should include at last one member of each army, thus apart from the figures also a Warg or an Eagle, depending on which is an army. (Though preferably both, in any case!) The criticism is there because people here CLAIM that LEGO only makes figs/stuff based on MOVIE MATERIAL.... And then they go and make a FIG that was NOWHERE seen wearing a hood... see the logic? So on 1 side we have members who claim that LEGO has rights to make stuff based on MOVIE (seen in movie) and on the other they defend hoods that were never seen wearing them while shooting arrows.... isnt that kinda two-faced ??? This is true, though I would guess its to fit the quivers on the figs, as mentioned above. But I saw the Elves-shouldnt-have-hoods arguments elsewhere on this forum, outside of this specific context. It just seems like an unfair criticism to make against TLG. Quote
kevkipo Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 Stop it... Stop talking about the Windlance and the Hoods I mean are you all serious? Here on this Forum we only talk about the sets! Not this nonsense about hoods and windlances Friggin children... Quote
Darth Punk Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 Actually I believe the wind lance is in the lake town set. Which is why we were talking about it. You know the thing Bard shoots Smaug with, in the movie. Quote
Lord Vladivus Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 I assume thats how it will be in the film, where the Wargs are nto shown as an army in their own right, but as for the book, Tolkien had this to say: "So began a battle that none had expected; and it was called the Battle of Five Armies, and it was vey terrible. Upon one side were the Goblins and the wild Wolves, and upon the other were Elves and Men and Dwarves." (p237 of my edition of The Hobbit, chapter The Clouds Burst) To me, thats pretty conclusive proof that the Wargs are a separate army in the books, and the Eagles and Bats are not counted. After all, earlier in the book, the Wargs wee supposed to meet with the Goblins to carry out a raid on the Woodmen, which shows the Wargs were independent from the Goblins. This actually has on-topic significance: a 60USD BOFA army builder should include at last one member of each army, thus apart from the figures also a Warg or an Eagle, depending on which is an army. (Though preferably both, in any case!) I'm pleased you found the quote, I was about to dig that out. I will concede that the film portrays things differently, as the wild wolves in the Hobbit were semi-intelligent (only slightly less than the goblins riding them). This didn't play a part in LOTR, and for the films, Wargs are displayed as simply a breed of large, rideable wolf. Hence, I would imagine that they and the orcs in the film will be one army. I would imagine that the eagles will be the fifth army, but I would much prefer it if the bats were the fifth. As a side note, the eagles are Manwe s (the head of the Valar) creatures, and the Valar have a non-interference policy with Sauron etc. but the eagles do like to get involved, and they're definitely on the side of good, simply they're quite aloof and disdainful creatures (being one of the few races that have not fallen prey to Morgoth/Sauron). Quote
Darth Punk Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 I assume thats how it will be in the film, where the Wargs are nto shown as an army in their own right, but as for the book, Tolkien had this to say: "So began a battle that none had expected; and it was called the Battle of Five Armies, and it was vey terrible. Upon one side were the Goblins and the wild Wolves, and upon the other were Elves and Men and Dwarves." (p237 of my edition of The Hobbit, chapter The Clouds Burst) To me, thats pretty conclusive proof that the Wargs are a separate army in the books, and the Eagles and Bats are not counted. After all, earlier in the book, the Wargs wee supposed to meet with the Goblins to carry out a raid on the Woodmen, which shows the Wargs were independent from the Goblins. This actually has on-topic significance: a 60USD BOFA army builder should include at last one member of each army, thus apart from the figures also a Warg or an Eagle, depending on which is an army. (Though preferably both, in any case!) This is true, though I would guess its to fit the quivers on the figs, as mentioned above. But I saw the Elves-shouldnt-have-hoods arguments elsewhere on this forum, outside of this specific context. It just seems like an unfair criticism to make against TLG. Yes thank you. Appears I wasn't that far off. I always viewed the eagles as being in a support role, much like the bats. Quote
kevkipo Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 Actually I believe the wind lance is in the lake town set. Which is why we were talking about it. You know the thing Bard shoots Smaug with, in the movie. Yes i know, i also believe that But really this is becoming a bit out of hand... They are fighting about how you spell it O.o Quote
Deathleech Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) To me, thats pretty conclusive proof that the Wargs are a separate army in the books, and the Eagles and Bats are not counted. After all, earlier in the book, the Wargs wee supposed to meet with the Goblins to carry out a raid on the Woodmen, which shows the Wargs were independent from the Goblins. I always thought the meeting of the goblins and wargs earlier in the book was kind of like them forming an alliance in it's infancy. By the time the Bo5A took place they had already formed up and been working as one. They arrive at the battle together ready to fight, not separately in two different forces like the other factions. It's pretty clear the elves, dwarves, and men are all their own armies since they are ready to fight each other before the goblins come. Then we see the goblins, wargs, and bats arrive, and finally we get the eagles last. Obviously the eagles are not aligned with anyone nor considered a part of the army of elves, men, etc. I guess it's just confusing because you don't tend to view a small group of eagles as an "army". And why are eagles (or wargs) considered their own army, but not the other large intelligent group of creatures? This is why I think Tolkien was referring to the alliances when he laid out the armies in the Bo5A. Otherwise it should of been called the Bo4A (dwarves, elves, goblins, and men.. no animals) or the Bo6A (all the previous mentioned plus the large creatures - wargs and eagles). Edited January 27, 2014 by Deathleech Quote
azog15 Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 As much as i love this conversation, can we please continue talking about the SETS? Quote
Darth Caedus Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 As much as i love this conversation, can we please continue talking about the SETS? Not much to speak of until the 29th at the earliest, guv. I'm with Alcarin on the Hoods debate. Basically, in addition to the lack of Elves wearing them in the film, it boils down to this for me: Lego minifigs look stupid with hoods when they have no capes. All Lego gear is inherently oversized - swords, hoods, everything. But as long as everything balances out it's okay. When Elves have these big hoods and then just a normal torso and legs it looks goofy and much less awesome. The Elves at Helm's Deep looked cool because they were wearing hoods and full cloaks. A hood without a cape is always quite out of place. The point is, Lego does cloaks/hoods/capes properly elsewhere (hooded Jedi/Sith come with matching capes, for example) - so when they make the majority of an armybuilder hooded Elves without capes, it looks wacky and out-of-place. It becomes more of an egregious error when we learn that MEA will be the only Hobbit-line armybuilder, given the mistake of making BO5A a $60 set (barring a miracle where it has 8+ non unique minifigs). If that was going to be the only Elf armybuilder, screw scene accuracy, it should have been Thranduil and 3 of these epic Elves (the 2nd best Elf design in all of PJ, only surpassed by the iconic glory that is the Last Alliance Elves). Quote
Mahtion Posted January 27, 2014 Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) Yes we don't have info about the sets so everyone is a little on edge. Combine that with the passionate Tolkien fan who have various views on the movie/books and you have a powder keg. Now if we look at facts: Laketown is now only a bell tower and the second smallest set, that means the two buildings that looked to be apart of the set are actually part of another set. The second largest set is BoFA. We know Erebor is a sand green nondescript set and could not be proper buildings, similar enough to be confused with Laketown. This means that these buildings most likely are part of Dale which would make sense considering we have seen videos of BoFA taking place there including shots of Armored thranduil fighting orcs. Based on these scenes we should be getting the new brown armored orcs from Dol Guldur, probably Dain based on reports, and maybe an armored Thranduil with two swords. Other characters may be soldiers either dwarf or elf, maybe human. If BoFA has substantial buildings, we may be looking at a Weathertop or Black Gate scenario, bigger build and only 5 figs. If that is the case we have less spots open for generic army builders and will probably be looking at heroes mostly. Edited January 27, 2014 by Mahtion Quote
Mahtion Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 I know a lot of people don't want an armored Thranduil but he is a leader of one of the Five Armies and has a huge role to play in the last third of the book and likely in the film as well. He is wearing silver armor and only has a silver circlet rather than his iconic crown, he will look generic and may serve as a generic armored elf sans the most coveted helm. If we think like Lego I imagine the set having at least a Bilbo, Gandalf or Thorin there for kicks unless Thranduil will fill in for that spot as hero along with new character Dain. Bolg, Dain, Thranduil, Bilbo?, Orc, Dwarf/elf soldier Quote
deskp Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 I think I might throw up if I see another set with Gandalf. If we think like Lego I imagine the set having at least a Bilbo, Gandalf or Thorin there for kicks. Those Are already in The large erebor set, I don't see why they should be in 2 sets the same wave. The dwarves does put on their armor inside of erebor, if lego cant find a way to put those versons in that set they shouldn't put them anywhere. Quote
egg roller Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 I think I might throw up if I see another set with Gandalf.. Right there with you. Now if we were talking Gandalf army building I think I, and many others, would have enough of that dang fig to make an army big enough to level all middle earth. TLG, can we please have no more gandalfs???? And bilbo too... Quote
Mahtion Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 I think I might throw up if I see another set with Gandalf. Those Are already in The large erebor set, I don't see why they should be in 2 sets the same wave. The dwarves does put on their armor inside of erebor, if lego cant find a way to put those versons in that set they shouldn't put them anywhere. I know, it's not my ideal set, but I'm trying to lower my expectations after MEA and Dol Guldur Battle. :/ Quote
deskp Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 I know, it's not my ideal set, but I'm trying to lower my expectations after MEA and Dol Guldur Battle. :/ Both of wich did infact deliver on the right characters fom the movie though. Except for gandalf it was all new stuff. But yeah lowering expectations and bracing urself is indeed the best thing to do ahead of more news. Quote
Mahtion Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 Both of wich did infact deliver on the right characters fom the movie though. Except for gandalf it was all new stuff. But yeah lowering expectations and bracing urself is indeed the best thing to do ahead of more news. True Wave 2 delivered great minifig selection, it's possible we will see another great variety of characters for Wave 3. We know Lego likes to throw curve balls so it is hard to say. Deskp, do you think the buildings which were thought to be part of lake town are actually part of the BoFA set and will be Dale? How many minifigs can we expect if the set has bricks used for the buildings? Quote
SandMirror38 Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 isn't the toy fair on now? It IS the 29th... Quote
deskp Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 True Wave 2 delivered great minifig selection, it's possible we will see another great variety of characters for Wave 3. We know Lego likes to throw curve balls so it is hard to say. Deskp, do you think the buildings which were thought to be part of lake town are actually part of the BoFA set and will be Dale? How many minifigs can we expect if the set has bricks used for the buildings? I assume the buildings were for dale, unless they put laketown chase in there for display purposes. 60$ set is like 5 miniffigures in other sets, but when dealing with generic solders lego might use multipeles int he set cause it does not cost THAT much more, and if the build perhaps isnt that big, it might be more of the price left for the minifigs. Quote
Deathleech Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 I'm with Alcarin on the Hoods debate. Basically, in addition to the lack of Elves wearing them in the film, it boils down to this for me: Lego minifigs look stupid with hoods when they have no capes. All Lego gear is inherently oversized - swords, hoods, everything. But as long as everything balances out it's okay. When Elves have these big hoods and then just a normal torso and legs it looks goofy and much less awesome. The Elves at Helm's Deep looked cool because they were wearing hoods and full cloaks. A hood without a cape is always quite out of place. The point is, Lego does cloaks/hoods/capes properly elsewhere (hooded Jedi/Sith come with matching capes, for example) - so when they make the majority of an armybuilder hooded Elves without capes, it looks wacky and out-of-place. I agree. Cape and hood vs just hood version: The cape makes them look significantly better. On the bright side at least they don't look as bad as the polybag version where they lacked a cape AND the shirt color clashed with the hood color . I hated that look so much I took all the elf hair pieces from the MEA set and put them on the olive green shirt guards and gave all the scouts in MEA all the hoods. Why Lego didn't include capes is beyond me. Those capes probably cost them a few cents? Or heck, why not include a set of hoods AND ears/hair for each elf so people have options? Again, it probably cost Lego a few extra cents to include the extra pieces. I know, I know, it adds up when you are mass producing hundreds of thousands, if not millions of the same set but come on! How much more appeal would the set have then? Elves without hoods look like nothing more than humans or rangers to most people, but at the same time not everyone wants elves and they actually PREFER ranger type figures. Personally the hood itself doesn't bother me, even if it wasn't shown in the film. I mean do we ever see Mordor Orcs wearing Uruk-hai helmets like in the Black Gate set? Heck, do we even see them with that print when they are doing battle? Lego obviously takes liberties when it comes to certain stuff if it will save them money. Quote
deskp Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 isn't the toy fair on now? It IS the 29th... Thats not how it works. The Nuremberg toy fair does not follow australian time... Quote
azog15 Posted January 28, 2014 Posted January 28, 2014 I really hope we get some solid info about the sets and if we're lucky some pictures Quote
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