LEGO Hobbit 2014

[SMC]

Dino hq?, I think the point is a warg is not a new mold so should not cost that much to make now so if we do get a warg we could still get a new big mold and they might go all out for the last film. Not sure what we will get with that set its the one we have the least to go on.

[kevkipo]

^ Black gate.

I get your point there, but i think the horse mold is not really considered "new" but then you can also call the Warg mold not new so we could go on and on about this :P

Ah your point is made just saying that if it would be a choice between Warg and new Mold i would choose the second one.

Edited May 29, 2014 by kevkipo

[bachamn]

I'm speaking as someone who only dabbles in LEGO collecting (truly, the Tolkien licenses are the only reason I'm here) so please pardon if this is known information of some sort. I've noticed that lots of the discussions regarding what sets might include what, e.g. if we'll see a particular non-standard figure like a beast, that the accepted pragmatic position is that the cost of a new mold would make it unlikely. My question then is, do we have any kind of idea what the production restraints LEGO uses that could support this notion? I mean, considering they are surely one of the top global toy manufacturers and hold some pretty impressive licenses, and the fact they their products are very simplistic from a design perspective (lots of smooth surfaces, hevily relying on paint applications for texture/detail), and reuse existing molds all the time, their production budget would have to be pretty shallow for this to be the case.

I'm assuming this is based on historical data from other sets, but wasn't sure if this has been disclosed somewhere specifically. Just seems weird to me that "it would cost too much to make the mold!" would be a limiting factor for a global toy production titan like LEGO.

[deskp]

lego does make new molds all the time, and they do have the budget for that. And over the years they have started doing more and more new molds.

But you also have to ask if they would sell more of a set if it had that one more new mold, or if it would be just about the same. cause its still a profit balance thing.

Far as cost of a new mold, they cost between 40 000 and 250 000 Euros

Documentary on making lego you might wanna watch:

https://www.youtube....h?v=t2wah736BAc

Edited May 29, 2014 by deskp

[Blakstone]

And it is a question of how much use would they get out of the mold and do they build that mold to last. The molds for the different dwarf hair probably was on the lower end and they won't be used again.

LEGO Lord of the Rings introduced a new horse hold. The prior horse mold could not rear up on his hind legs. But they have reused it for Winter Village, Lone Ranger, and Castle already. So the cost of the new mold gets spread over a lot of lines.

Some lines budget differently. For example, Superheros often don't get leg printing because they don't budget for it. The City sets this year just started reusing the police officer cap from the Minifigure line. Before that, they were all wearing ball caps. Leia in the Ewok Villiage is using a hair mold introduced in Minifig line but designed with her in mind.

I said in the LotR thread that the Orthanc did not have a budget for any new molds. That is why we got a smaller Sauramon set to cover his mold and the Black Gate to include the eagle.

So LEGO looks to reuse the new molds whenever possible. It was not surprising that they used the warg mold twice but I appreciate that. I would rather have a elf for the elves mounts than see them again. I suspect they could find a way to do that and reuse most of that mold for Winter Village stuff.

[kevkipo]

i've seen some screenshots and gameplay of Guardians of Middle-Earth (i believe it was called)

And there was a video of the Dwarf army you could assemble, well they ride on Boars but it looked far more better than i expected

I don't know if they will continue that Boar thing in BOFTA but it would be pretty nice

[bachamn]

I don't know if they will continue that Boar thing in BOFTA but it would be pretty nice

I've never heard of dwarves riding boars; it's very unlikely you would see this anywhere outside that game.

Here's a quote from one of the game's producers, Ruth Tomandi:

“This isn’t a game necessarily for purists, and the purists will realise that. Hence your opportunity to beat Sauron up with Gollum, or team Galadriel with a villain. We can hear you choking on your neckbeard from here."

[deskp]

I've never heard of dwarves riding boars; it's very unlikely you would see this anywhere outside that game.

it has been mentioned from film people, in a way that makes it seem like it could happen in the movie

[kevkipo]

I've never heard of dwarves riding boars; it's very unlikely you would see this anywhere outside that game.

Here's a quote from one of the game's producers, Ruth Tomandi:

“This isn’t a game necessarily for purists, and the purists will realise that. Hence your opportunity to beat Sauron up with Gollum, or team Galadriel with a villain. We can hear you choking on your neckbeard from here."

Dain's actor Billy Collony mentioned it too

[bachamn]

it has been mentioned from film people, in a way that makes it seem like it could happen in the movie

Dain's actor Billy Collony mentioned it too

[deskp]

Don't know if youre being rude or what, But keep in mind we're dealing with insane cg Peter Jackson by now.

[Faefrost]

I'm speaking as someone who only dabbles in LEGO collecting (truly, the Tolkien licenses are the only reason I'm here) so please pardon if this is known information of some sort. I've noticed that lots of the discussions regarding what sets might include what, e.g. if we'll see a particular non-standard figure like a beast, that the accepted pragmatic position is that the cost of a new mold would make it unlikely. My question then is, do we have any kind of idea what the production restraints LEGO uses that could support this notion? I mean, considering they are surely one of the top global toy manufacturers and hold some pretty impressive licenses, and the fact they their products are very simplistic from a design perspective (lots of smooth surfaces, hevily relying on paint applications for texture/detail), and reuse existing molds all the time, their production budget would have to be pretty shallow for this to be the case.

I'm assuming this is based on historical data from other sets, but wasn't sure if this has been disclosed somewhere specifically. Just seems weird to me that "it would cost too much to make the mold!" would be a limiting factor for a global toy production titan like LEGO.

We've talked about molds and tooling a lot. Mostly in the CuuSoo thread and more recently in the Winter Village thread. Here are the basics.

- Lego molds and parts are not actually simplistic designs. They are in fact manufactured to a rather scary degree of high precision. Far more so than most plastic toys. Remember each and every Lego part must connect and disconnect with thousands of other parts in a way that is essentially the same every time. Lack of this precision is what makes non Lego clone brands so awful. Because of this precision and the materials used Molds will start around $80,000 us for something minor like a CMF accessory that is only held, up to nearly half a million $ usd for regular construction elements.

- the fact that Lego is a multi billion dollar toy company is less relevant. They don't pay for molds out of cash reserves and then hope to use them. Molds are manufacturing capital items. They get financed. And a business case must be built for each mold or each line or theme. What are the expected returns on the theme. How many sets in how many release cycles can they guarantee that they will use or spread out the part. How much will the part add to the cost of the set, and what does that do to the perceived value? Basically each mold carries a mortgage. The theme or themes it is intended for need to be able to swing that mortgage. A theme will have a limited financing budget that they can use for new parts so designers will use it as they feel best. And not all theme budgets are the same. Things like licenses will get better financing from the bank. Current movie tie ins more so. It does not matter how well Ninjago is selling. New molds for the Hobbit are based off data and expectations for the hobbit. (Excepting new general use construction elements that get spread everywhere and have a longer period of return. Also note there is a difference between new elements made for a theme, and new general elements that simply make their first appearance in a theme.)

The general production restraints seem to be roughly, the theme must be able to fully amortize the cost of the mold or tooling in about 18-24 months, and in most cases barring certain large exceptions such as floating boat hulls, the special parts cannot raise the retail price of the set more than around 5% to do this. Note these are all guesses based on observation. But they are probably not too far off.

[kevkipo]

*gif*

I really dont see what you are trying to achieve with that gif?

Don't know if youre being rude or what, But keep in mind we're dealing with insane cg Peter Jackson by now.

Oh don't bring back those miserable creatures from King Kong i was already grosed out when i saw the movie

[SMC]

The new wizard in cmf has a staff like Gandalf from the hobbit game do we think we might see Gandalf with it in one of the new sets?

[deskp]

The new wizard in cmf has a staff like Gandalf from the hobbit game do we think we might see Gandalf with it in one of the new sets?

Hopefully there's no Gandalf in any of the new sets. And I mean, does it matter? u can just build your own already, or take it from that wizard.

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2937/14124042498_82517861b5_o.jpg

[kevkipo]

Hopefully there's no Gandalf in any of the new sets. And I mean, does it matter? u can just build your own already, or take it from that wizard.

https://farm3.static...2517861b5_o.jpg

I agree with Deskp there, its not that hard to build one your own :)

[SMC]

But do you really think Lego won't want to fit Gandalf in again

[kevkipo]

But do you really think Lego won't want to fit Gandalf in again

No, i don't hope so

[Clone OPatra]

LEGO will probably keep the Dol Guldur Battle set around. It will pair well with the rumored set of Galadriel and Elrond fighting the Witch King (if i remember correctly). The Dol Guldur Battle seems to be a mash up between things that actually happened in DoS and things that were moved to the third film anyway.

[SMC]

that's true 3 of the 4 sets will go with the 3rd film and will still be around

[Faefrost]

Some lines budget differently. For example, Superheros often don't get leg printing because they don't budget for it. The City sets this year just started reusing the police officer cap from the Minifigure line. Before that, they were all wearing ball caps. Leia in the Ewok Villiage is using a hair mold introduced in Minifig line but designed with her in mind.

I said in the LotR thread that the Orthanc did not have a budget for any new molds. That is why we got a smaller Sauramon set to cover his mold and the Black Gate to include the eagle.

Printing budgets are most likely an entirely different sort of beast than new parts. Obviously designing new art is fairly low cost. At least compared to new physical parts. Where the issue of things like Leg or Back printing budget comes into play has more to do with production capabilities and capacity. Which factory do they have capacity at to make the parts? What are that factories capabilities? Do they have the newer printers that can do double sided with one pass? Or do they have the older that require 2 passes through the production line? Does this factory have capability for leg or arm printing? Etc. remember production time is money. Each step has a cost to the set.

[kevkipo]

http://www.speelgoed...t/?q=the hobbit

Ive been looking around on this dutch Lego online shop and found something interesting, All the 2014 sets with part listing, European price listing and delivery time

Now for example i can translate 79018

At SpeelGoedNL: (european price) € 124,95

Delivery date: October (!!!)

Parts: 866

Introduction year: 2014 Categories: New Lego

LEGO 79018 LEGO The Hobbit set 4

Take a look at the site for the other sets

This is a very trustfull site as i have ordered many sets there. they where also correct with last years price listing and parts count.

Edited June 2, 2014 by kevkipo

[Slobey]

I guess it gives us a reference point as to how big the set will be. Judging by their price point on other items it will be comparable to Helms deep.... The Smaug mould might throw that out a bit though....

[kevkipo]

I guess it gives us a reference point as to how big the set will be. Judging by their price point on other items it will be comparable to Helms deep.... The Smaug mould might throw that out a bit though....

I still think we can get a decent set for 866 pieces!

[Legoman123]

I didn't expect them to be released in October!