CMF Mafia 2 - Day One - On the Case

[Cecilie]

Actually if you wanna know this but I am against public claiming but I did it, this comment, first page, last one:

You are pretty hard going for me, whats up with that and you don´t read others comments I see (maybe you can´t read, is that it)

you trying to steer away suspicion from someone else on to me, are you?

Iam gonna use your excuse Caitie I actually have Eurobricks on my mobile and WIFI on all the time but it doesn´t mean I am online.

Ok, first of all, we need to stop cross-posting.

Secondly, I thought when you said you were the witch, you were referring to your character, not your alter-ego. But ok, if you're claiming it's your alter-ego as well, fine.

And I wrote that before you were done with your post. Relax. I'm not accusing you, just gauging you.

[Mencot]

Ok, first of all, we need to stop cross-posting.

Secondly, I thought when you said you were the witch, you were referring to your character, not your alter-ego. But ok, if you're claiming it's your alter-ego as well, fine.

And I wrote that before you were done with your post. Relax. I'm not accusing you, just gauging you.

cross-posting is a drag can it be deep boiled Whhahahhahaa and I am laughing my big behind off

[Cecilie]

Ok, I'm going to Vote: Kingsley of the Starfish (KingoftheZempk)

Why? Here's why. This is the first thing he says after Derek has claimed cop. The post is complete fluff, and adds nothing of substance. He also seems to not care at all about losing a potential cop.

I'm gone to go plan my next crime and this happens? Well this is certainly interesting. As was said, there have been too many public claims. It's going to get confusing and if claims are true, then the Council know who to go to.

On the other hand, public claims could serve as an advantage for us. If people don't keep up with their public claims (if one made a false claim), then we could see who claimed what, possibly leading us to scum. Right now, I see no reason for myself to unvote Derek.

Keep in mind, the Council may be splitting up their votes, some actually voting for Derek if he is Council, just to save the rest of their skins later on in the next few days. Tomorrow, we will seewhat results of our vote, letting us see have a better understanding of those infiltrating us, whether Derek is or is not Council (I'm betting he is, but if he's not, we lost one of us who may not have helped us along the way.) As a criminal mastermind, I know that sometimes we have to make tough decisions to make easier ones. This is an easier decision, but it by no means is as easy as choosing wine or potatoes.

Then a few people unvote in quick succession. Suddenly he panics, and makes this utterly scummy post defending his unvote and wishy-washyness. He's more afraid of his own reputation, than of losing someone who might be the cop...

I know what I said earlier, and I hate to flip flop on things, I mean I'm a starfish, I stick to things, but maybe you all are right. As much as I hate no lynches, I certainly hate claiming roles early on, and I definitely hate flip-flopping positions. I don't want to seem like a bandwagoner, which is why I'm considering keeping my vote, but I don't want to seem horible if he does get lynched or killed in the night and he does turn out to be our investigator. Sometimes a criminal needs to stepback and know when he does not know the answer.

As for now, Unvote: Derek Polanes (Darth Potato).

[Mencot]

Ok, I'm going to Vote: Kingsley of the Starfish (KingoftheZempk)

Why? Here's why. This is the first thing he says after Derek has claimed cop. The post is complete fluff, and adds nothing of substance. He also seems to not care at all about losing a potential cop.

Then a few people unvote in quick succession. Suddenly he panics, and makes this utterly scummy post defending his unvote and wishy-washyness. He's more afraid of his own reputation, than of losing someone who might be the cop...

This is more like it and yes one of those "reverse bandvagoners"

As his posts today been anything else then fluff. I actually am still keen on a flammed starfish for dinner

[Hinckley]

Bear with me...

Spinning many plates at once is harder than it looks, you know. *honk honk!*

Yes, the many plates of being Scum and appearing Town can be hard, darling.

Personally, I'd be more confident in lynching one of the Derek bandwagoners. Caitie is one that sticks out to me - she has had very little to say, turned up and got her vote in early, and hasn't had anything to say about the changing situation since.

This is why I think it's safe to not have a lynch today. We do have a voting pattern to analyze. I know Caitie has been busy with Aikido, but this is also the way she played last time she was Scum. Which also closely resembles her Town game. megablocking metagaming. Pardon the French, loves. It's the wine talking.

But if we really have to test this theory that all monsters must have monster alter-egos , then I'd be a lot happier lynching the faith healer than our potential cop, even if the other faith healer does turn up. I'd much rather lose a weak protector (who, if scum, is under no obligation to actually protect a promised target) than an investigator.

I still agree if we want to test this theory. We have three Monster roleclaims, all with non-monster Monsters. Shall I reveal the other alter egos? It might give the Scum easier fake claims. However, knowledge only helps the Town in the long run, I believe. More on that later.

If we're going to lynch a bandwagoner, I feel more comfortable going with your first choice of Sally, but I'll get to that in a bit.

Why do you keep claiming that the bandwagon against Derek is Helen's fault? Clarissa had as much to do with it as Helen. In your other post, it almost seemed as if you were setting things up for a Helen lynch tomorrow if Derek turned out to be town:

Yes, this is noted from Melinda.

I agree with you about the revealing things, that never leads to success in my experience. Revealing roles in public only helps the scum.

I find quite the opposite. I'm not saying we should all reveal right before the Scum get to block and kill, but the sooner the Town has info to work with the more they can use it to their advantage. In a game of an informed minority, the more information the uninformed majority can glean, the better. Revealing our alter egos would do this: show who has roles and who are vanilla. Then it would be up to the Town to figure out which roles are Scum and which are Town. It may cause us to lose a few of our PRs but it also gives us a good chance of protecting and blocking the right people and giving the Scum a really hard time along the way. I actually would love to see how this would play out. Think of Bloodbrick II, Imhotep and EB Mafia II. Those were all situations that once the Town had the setup revealed the Scum couldn't get a foothold even though they were killing Masons and PRs.

I don't mind getting some coffee instead of wine, as long as it isn't mean, darlin, but... Was it not true that precisely your initial convictions were that Derek was one of the council members based on his alter-ego thoughts and theories? I wasn't trying to offend you honey, nor was I pointing fingers. If anything, I'd call it credit where credit is due.

How gently you put it now after calling it insane ramblings earlier. It's clear what you were doing if you are Scum trying to set me up for a lynch. If you're just being rude, well then, have some coffee and maybe I'll see you at my next get together.

In all fairness, Derek's roleclaim also reeks of desperation to me as well, and I'd credit that to him being asked into an alter-egooy corner... However, I don't find his initially voiced theory sufficiently wrong per se to actually join the witchhunt against him. His actions afterwards are what's worrying to me - and they might be the consequence of scumminess indeed, or just an attempt to clutch at any single straw out there in order to avoid being lynched on Day One. If it's the latter though, I'm sure he has by now realised that he's done us Monsters a huge disfavour by blabbing as much as he did, and that is in turn the real reason (at least to me) to feel suspicious of him. There's others around us though who are demonstrating equally erratic and worrying behaviour, so let's see how this day develops.

Maybe this is how a more experienced player would react, but perhaps this is his tactic and the way he knows how to respond. If he is Town, he just has a different way of defending himself and looking for discovery than more seasoned players. That is a possibility...as well as being a lying Scum. If there's a Monster investigator out there that hasn't come forward to make sure we lynch Derek, hopefully they'll find a Monster tonight that they feel comfortable claiming to tomorrow. Right now, the risk is too big that Derek actually is our investigator. This will cause problems for him, yes. But at least he won't be dying at our hands if he is who he says he is.

Absolutely, why don't you list all the scummy things I have done for me?

It's only day one, darling, but you've done plenty to set off my Scumdar. Your voting "pole position" notwithstanding, you've also started PMing me before the day was even to a full page. This means you are either Scum or Vanilla Town as I doubt a PR would put their neck out like that. You claimed you were going to be PMing a lot of people to stir things up. I hope a PR wouldn't draw that much attention to themselves. Your Scummy play coupled with the fact that if you're Town I'd imagine you're vanilla makes you a very good lynch for Day One. Even if you're a Townie and we lose you, the Scum won't be able to manipulate your polarizing game play the way they did in the last game.

I just want to point out, that in the olden days, before the game of lynching and sum was played on 'the internet', there was a game called werewolves. (it had cards, great for burning) In that game, there were no cops or investigators, but there were fortune tellers who did the same thing. Now, I don't think that means Derek is town. Likely the scum knew this as well. The claim is absolutely dumb. A fortune teller is not a monster. A monstrous fortune teller just sounds dumb.

Great. There was also a witch doctor that resurrected the dead instead of a protector. I doubt our host played this game in college dorms, the way we did. The little Millenial was probably born in the internet age.

Checking back again, it seems Carl, Kingsley, Lacey and Mikatta have all been around since Derek roleclaimed. It would be nice to hear your thoughts on this. At the moment, it feels as if some of you are testing the waters, seeing if it's safe to leave your votes on Derek or if you're going to have to get another townie lynched instead.

Yes, there are lurkers hovering over the day's vote. I can hear the drool over losing a Town PR...

Mikatta said pretty much the first thing today that was of substance: She outed herself as the witch. You seem to ignore that.

At the same time, her character's role is "Forest Witch" so there's no telling what she meant when she "claimed".

Folks, I'm sorry I have been very absent so far, but I'm out of town here on day 1 and am doing all this from my phone. It's been very hard to follow what is going on with the limited amount I've been able to read.

But you've been here for a long time. Following...

I don't even think my vote counted since I can't figure out how to bold in my phone.

Darling, you used a forward slash. You need to use the back slash.

That's not what I'm saying; I explained both possibilities because you were utterly reluctant to believe that that roles were tied to alter egos.

Darling, don't become the jerk Timothy again. Nobody likes that Timothy.

Honestly, if there's another cop, claim to Helen.

Lovely, you've made me clutch my pearls. I'm not endorsing this. I already have the two Faith Healers claiming to me. I can help coordinate them. I don't advocate people claiming to one person on Day One especially since I'm not verified right now. I am a Monster, I'm not saying I'm not, but what if all the PRs come claim to me and the Scum have a conversion at their disposal? Why do you keep advocating the Town PRs claiming to someone?

Speaking of claims ... Have people not learnt that you should not claim on day 1, especially not to Helen.

I concur with this. As for the other stuff you said, another cop claim would get us to definitely lynch a Scum, if not today then tomorrow. I do not think the investigator will be killed, if it's Derek or someone else who claims. There are other PRs around to stop specific players from being killed. I doubt the Scum would risk their kill for even a 50% chance of the target being protected.

I'm gone to go plan my next crime and this happens? Well this is certainly interesting. As was said, there have been too many public claims. It's going to get confusing and if claims are true, then the Council know who to go to.

On the other hand, public claims could serve as an advantage for us. If people don't keep up with their public claims (if one made a false claim), then we could see who claimed what, possibly leading us to scum. Right now, I see no reason for myself to unvote Derek.

Keep in mind, the Council may be splitting up their votes, some actually voting for Derek if he is Council, just to save the rest of their skins later on in the next few days. Tomorrow, we will seewhat results of our vote, letting us see have a better understanding of those infiltrating us, whether Derek is or is not Council (I'm betting he is, but if he's not, we lost one of us who may not have helped us along the way.) As a criminal mastermind, I know that sometimes we have to make tough decisions to make easier ones. This is an easier decision, but it by no means is as easy as choosing wine or potatoes.

I know what I said earlier, and I hate to flip flop on things, I mean I'm a starfish, I stick to things, but maybe you all are right. As much as I hate no lynches, I certainly hate claiming roles early on, and I definitely hate flip-flopping positions. I don't want to seem like a bandwagoner, which is why I'm considering keeping my vote, but I don't want to seem horible if he does get lynched or killed in the night and he does turn out to be our investigator. Sometimes a criminal needs to stepback and know when he does not know the answer.

As for now, Unvote: Derek Polanes (Darth Potato).

Ping.

... well look at me contradicting myself ... I meant to delete the "I am still confident in my vote as I see no other option and am uncomfortable with a no lynch on day 1." part of my comment.

Yes, oops. It's always difficult when you forget to delete the part that makes you look Scummy, dear.

So could someone fill me in what is a "faith healer"?

Darling, the first time it is mentioned it is linked to a page describing it in full. So fill yourself in, love. Also, I can't tell you how much easier it would be for us to understand you, even though your are clearly posting from your phone, if you used proper punctuation and spacing. Also, try to form your thoughts into readable paragraphs like everyone else. It's hard to tell your single sentence witch "jokes" from what you actually want us to read.

[Scubacarrot]

Is it bad in this situation?

Yes? With the knowledge we have at this point. Probably?

Also, the game of follow the Helen that is going is quite interesting...

[Hinckley]

ofcourse if you got good reasons, like you have do it...

So I have good reason but those reason don't apply to you? Maybe I'm biased because it's my reasoning, but doesn't the information presented give everyone enough reason to unvote Derek? Good reasons for one of us...should be good reasons for all of us, right? Maybe I have tunnel thinking...

[Scubacarrot]

Mikatta and Kingsley, this is a question to both of you that is appropiate, albeit in different ways. Why are you so focussed on how you appear?

Great. There was also a witch doctor that resurrected the dead instead of a protector. I doubt our host played this game in college dorms, the way we did. The little Millenial was probably born in the internet age.

I don't remember that. I remember there was a Huntsman instead of a Vigilante though.

[KotZ]

Ok, I'm going to Vote: Kingsley of the Starfish (KingoftheZempk)

Why? Here's why. This is the first thing he says after Derek has claimed cop. The post is complete fluff, and adds nothing of substance. He also seems to not care at all about losing a potential cop.

Then a few people unvote in quick succession. Suddenly he panics, and makes this utterly scummy post defending his unvote and wishy-washyness. He's more afraid of his own reputation, than of losing someone who might be the cop...

The reason I said it was because anybody can claim cop to try to get out of something. We can't know right away, unless another person comes out and says he/she is the cop. Now whether Derek is the cop or not doesn't apply yet. If he's not the real cop, the real cop may be going along with it just to protect his/her own skin. Why come out of hiding on the first day? My guess is tonight that possibly the "real cop" (if Derek isn't) may investigate him and the roleblocker may possibly roleblock or the protector may protect Derek (I doubt everyone will do that, and I'm not telling people how to use their night actions, just what I would do if I had one of those roles).

No, I did not panic, I was analyzing the situation. Sorry if I was wishy washy, didn't intend for that. Didn't mean for it to sound scummy, that literally was my thought process. That's why I did not want to unvote him, but I did just to not make myself future enemies down the road.

Mikatta and Kingsley, this is a question to both of you that is appropiate, albeit in different ways. Why are you so focussed on how you appear?

Many criminals are narcissists, I love making sure I look good. Not being scummy, just saying. If Derek does turn out to be a cop, what happens if I kept my vote on him instead of unvoting? I'd look like either a very bad Council or a very stupid townie, neither of which I want to be.

[Scubacarrot]

Many criminals are narcissists, I love making sure I look good. Not being scummy, just saying. If Derek does turn out to be a cop, what happens if I kept my vote on him instead of unvoting? I'd look like either a very bad Council or a very stupid townie, neither of which I want to be.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that logic.

[jimmynick]

Ok, I've checked back now. Mikatta has never claimed witch as her alter ego. She is publicly the "forest witch". Just check the character listing. It says this:

Mikatta is listed as the "forest witch", but when she said:

I am the "Drum roll" Witch

I interpreted it as a revelation of her alter ego. I mean, why contribute that info unless it's something that people don't know? After the fact, Mikatta herself confirmed that:

Actually if you wanna know this but I am against public claiming but I did it, this comment, first page, last one:

So thank you for driving a "witch"hunt against me

No-one's driving a witch hunt against you.

The first claim of Derek's, that not all of us have monstrous alter-egos, seems to hold water because of the claimed faith-healers. His second claim, that actions are related to alter-egos, is still in the air. But since the first claim is more credible than it was when I voted for him, so:

Unvote: Derek Polanes (DarthPotato)

I know what I said earlier, and I hate to flip flop on things, I mean I'm a starfish, I stick to things, but maybe you all are right. As much as I hate no lynches, I certainly hate claiming roles early on, and I definitely hate flip-flopping positions. I don't want to seem like a bandwagoner, which is why I'm considering keeping my vote, but I don't want to seem horible if he does get lynched or killed in the night and he does turn out to be our investigator. Sometimes a criminal needs to stepback and know when he does not know the answer.

As for now, Unvote: Derek Polanes (Darth Potato).

If someone gets lynched, it's because there's a consensus that they're scummy. If the wagon had stayed on Derek, it wouldn't have been just your doing. I was in there, You're very self-aware, and it that looks like you have something to hide. So:

Vote: Kingsley of the Starfish (KingoftheZempk)

[Peanuts]

There are two faith healers, if I'm to believe the claims being made in private.

Alright, I guess that lends credibility to the claims and it appears that power roles actually can be non-monsters. All the more reason not to publish our identities.

Unvote: Derek Polanes (Darth Potato)

Ok, I've checked back now. Mikatta has never claimed witch as her alter ego. She is publicly the "forest witch". Just check the character listing. It says this:

Mikatta - Played by Mencot - Forest Witch

So now tell me, why are you so bent on defending her? I haven't even thrown here a proper accusation yet, just poked her a little.

I saw you ignoring information and pointed that out. It's funny that you make it sound like I defended her, when you brought up two quick, weak cases while at the same time losing not one word about your opinion on the faith healers. I come to think you were trying to distract.

Many criminals are narcissists, I love making sure I look good. Not being scummy, just saying. If Derek does turn out to be a cop, what happens if I kept my vote on him instead of unvoting? I'd look like either a very bad Council or a very stupid townie, neither of which I want to be.

I'm not sure if you are roleplaying or not.

You would let your gameplay be influenced by how your actions look? If you're town, you don't need to do that. Scum have to care about appearing town. Townies are town.

[Hinckley]

Vote: Kingsley of the Starfish (KingoftheZempk)

He's pinged me and generated enough suspicion from others. Sorry if we're wrong, although I'm not sure we'll achieve a lynch today at this point.

[KotZ]

I'm not sure if you are roleplaying or not.

You would let your gameplay be influenced by how your actions look? If you're town, you don't need to do that. Scum have to care about appearing town. Townies are town.

A townie may still be accused of being scum.

As for you Jeffrey, I'm trying to look at things from all sorts of angles, so yes, I am self aware. Nothing to hide, just trying to not divide the town any further.

[Peanuts]

A townie may still be accused of being scum.

And then he can explain how his actions were in the best interest of the town.

Lynching you is better than lynching a claimed cop and lynching nobody. I'll just

Vote: Kingsley of the Starfish (KingOfTheZempk)

[Kristel]

I'm not going to change my vote. There is something about the claim that continues to bug me. Curious, does anyone else have a reference in their PM to a CMF other than "Monster ______ "?

I'm not going to vote for the starfish, as I think that, between Caitie and the starfish, Caitie is more likely to be the scum. So, voting for the starfish doesn't make sense to me.

[Cecilie]

I saw you ignoring information and pointed that out. It's funny that you make it sound like I defended her, when you brought up two quick, weak cases while at the same time losing not one word about your opinion on the faith healers. I come to think you were trying to distract.

Call it what you want. I didn't ignore information. I'm just not a database of posts. I just threw out some thoughts I'd had while going through the day. I didn't know that was a problem. And you want me to comment on the faith healers? I don't see much to comment on, really. Two people have claimed faith healers. I don't see any reason to question that at this point. Nor do I see any reason to out their identities. Seems like Helen is on top of them.That's all for now.

[DarthPotato]

It doesn't need to make sense to you, it only needs to make sense to the host. If your argument is that it makes perfect sense to you, then it sounds like you've made it up. I can't imagine monsters would be replaced with normies just to justify having qualities of power roles. That would be completely stupid. If it is the case, it's not your fault, it's God's. If you are Town and have a power role you should've been much more careful blabbing about your alter ego. Really. Really, if the host has made our alter egos indicate what roles we have, then that is a huge mistake.

And if it only needs to make sense to the host, it doesn't matter if it makes sense to you, either.

What originally bugged me about this is that the "town" is Scum this time and the "scum" are the Town. So your whole question could seem even more like a screw-up.

What? Can you look back at this and tell me what you are saying, please?

After all this discussion why couldn't you come in at this point and simply say you were the Monster Fortune Teller.

Did anybody tell Derek or anybody by the point of the above post how their Role PM was structured?

Why couldn't you have said this earlier? Why did this come 24 hours after the first discussion of your alter ego?

During all of this the main point I was trying to get at was that alter egos don't necessarily correspond to our affiliation. I assumed, despite being aligned with the monsters, all monsters had regular figures because that's how I had it and that's how it was last game. Lesson learned to not assume.

And I didn't claim Monster Fortune Teller so quickly because, like I said before, I thought it could have been easily traced back to investigator and I didn't want to claim with so little suspicion.

The correlation of alter egos and roles was a game breaker last time, so if this time I were given, say, "Fortune Teller" and "Cop" I should think it's by coincidence, not by design. I (and I think anyone else) wouldn't extrapolate from one sample to the population.

The fact that Derek has insisted that alter egos correspond to roles suggests he has inside information. On Day One, that says scum. I'm keeping my vote where it is.

It does mean I have inside information, it means that that's how I had it and that's how I thought everyone else did.

Either way, you could have made much more use of your power role by trying to rally Monsters around you. Instead, you've openly shared it in public, so that now the scum can make sure you remain useless throughout the game. A round of applause for a situation really well handled. In all honesty, I for one can really buy the notion that you've become entangled in a stupid mess of "is this alter-ego monster enough or not" and "how monstrous should monsters look and sound to actually qualify as monsters" - which, in itself, is not the best thing on which to base our game and assumptions. But at the same time I'm absolutely convinced that you haven't done what's best for your fellow Monsters in this instance. That is, of course, as long as your claim is valid, which is still anyone's guess.

And what else do you want me to do? Just sit back and die and have no one have any idea of what my role was? The more information the town knows the better. And at that point, that was all I could do. It was literally the only way I could defend myself because that's how my figure was.

Why couldn't you have said this earlier? Why did this come 24 hours after the first discussion of your alter ego?

Because to me Fortune Teller easily relates back to investigator. I didn't want to post my alter ego in public, especially on Day 1, but to me the figure went with the role. If I was claiming one, I might as well claimed the other.

I won't be able to get back in a few hours, but I'm pretty sure I'll be back before the day ends.

[Scubacarrot]

So a Fortune Teller Cop. With a poor sense of timing, it seems. Alright, let's hope he can get some investigating going before he's dead. So I am technically only eight so I go to bed early, and won't be back again. Is Kingsley's extremely twisted logic enough for him to be lynched... Probably. I've seen more succesful/useful day one lynches than that. I think it beats a no lynch.

Unvote: Derek Polanes (Darth Potato)

Vote: Kingsley of the Starfish (KingOfTheZempk)

[Hinckley]

I have a Cyclops claim. Anyone want to counter that?

[Tamamono]

This isn't my first choice for a lynch, but as long as we're achieving a lynch and it's not on an uncounterclaimed PR, I'm cool with it.

Vote: Kingsley of the Starfish (KingOfTheZempk)

Darling, don't become the jerk Timothy again. Nobody likes that Timothy.

I yam what I yam. I apologize if I came off as abrasive, though, Helen. Thank you for seeing reason.

[KotZ]

Well this is certainly bad news for me. I could claim my role, but I'm worried what will happen if I do, especially if somebody (scum or town) counterclaims me yet everyone believes that person.

[Tamamono]

Well this is certainly bad news for me. I could claim my role, but I'm worried what will happen if I do, especially if somebody (scum or town) counterclaims me yet everyone believes that person.

If you get a counterclaim, it goes to a 50/50. So, if you claim a role and we lynch you and you flip town, whoever counterclaimed will be confirmed scum tomorrow.

Claiming would be a great idea: figure and role both so scum can't copy you if you're town.

[KotZ]

Fine. I didn't want to do this (I hate claiming, everybody knows I'm a criminal mastermind).

Scarecrow. I stop people from doing bad things at night.

If this doesn't save my suckers on my five arms, I hope you stop the Council

[Tamamono]

Figured we'd see a blocker claim.

Scarecrow's actually fairly ambiguous. I could see it as Council. I'm leaning toward you being the scum blocker, honestly, but proper precautions must be taken regardless. There's 6 votes on you now, it takes 10 for a majority, so we can still save you if need be.

What does everyone think? Is blocker worth a no lynch?