CMF Mafia 2 - Day 2 - Special Delivery

[Hinckley]

Another lie from Helen, presumably designed to push my buttons and try and get me to spit the dummy again. The dummy spit yesterday was the result of a very frustrating discussion I had with Helen yesterday about alter egos. A discussion that I thought was resolved because it turns out the misunderstanding was based on an honest mistake made by another party, yet she is still using it to portray me as scum.

Yes, I purposely edited out the swearing (out of the quote above) because I'm not particularly proud of that.

What was so frustrating about our private conversation?

[MagPiesRUs]

I would be ok with everyone claiming to Derek. I feel like the real cop would have exposed him at this point if he wasn't telling the truth. Some may think that would be reckless of the cop, but an investigator for a scum isn't such a bad deal - especially if it also prevents other PRs from trusting the wrong person. *honk honk*

[Bob]

Oh, haven't I?

What's this, Bleeb?

Sorry, I didn't see that.

Also, to the comments saying that I was the one that ended up hammering the vote, while that is true, I must say that it was to avoid the non-lynch. I know it's a bit hypocritical for me to say, but I just pointed out that I thought it was odd how Timothy was pushing very hard for the lynch of the starfish.

[Mencot]

That's some really bad metagaming right there.

Yea isn´t it but ask the clown to honk it:

I feel like the real cop would have exposed him at this point if he wasn't telling the truth. Some may think that would be reckless of the cop, but an investigator for a scum isn't such a bad deal - especially if it also prevents other PRs from trusting the wrong person. *honk honk*

This is true and in clear memory but doesn´t mean it would happen now, would it, lets make it so that it doesn´t happen. "Honks the clowns horn" *honk honk*

Weren't you the one that claimed first and foremost??

Yes it was and did it bring any usefulness to this game but what I also meant with that comment, don´t claim your PRs, because 2 have already done it and 2 other roles have been said but we all don´t know who they are.

I would be ok with everyone claiming to Derek

This would be an better option of person but I don´t yet trust him enough, maybe I am stupid but i am pretty suspicious of everything

[DarthPotato]

This would be an better option of person but I don´t yet trust him enough, maybe I am stupid but i am pretty suspicious of everything

Suspicious of what? I can understand the uneasiness because of what happened yesterday, but I'd say it's a lot more creditable for those who didn't believe it now. There have been no counterclaims, meaning I am the Cop. Really, the only evidence initially on me was the alter ego situation, and we've had several other claims of people having not as monster-y figures as others.

[Mencot]

Suspicious of what? I can understand the uneasiness because of what happened yesterday, but I'd say it's a lot more creditable for those who didn't believe it now. There have been no counterclaims, meaning I am the Cop. Really, the only evidence initially on me was the alter ego situation, and we've had several other claims of people having not as monster-y figures as others.

Okay (not ok-ey) I do believe your claim but does this mean I need to trust you right now, it is the beginning of day two.

I have seen people turn up scum on day 5 that had claimed something a never got an counterclaim.

I believe you and I won´t hunt you with those reasons given yesterday. But if there comes up something new then i will turn my eyes on you again and I think others will also.

[Hinckley]

Okay (not ok-ey) I do believe your claim but does this mean I need to trust you right now, it is the beginning of day two.

What the difference between believing the claim and trusting him? Isn't your part done? Haven't you claimed your alter ego to everyone?

[Mencot]

What the difference between believing the claim and trusting him? Isn't your part done? Haven't you claimed your alter ego to everyone?

Isn´t there a big difference, I believe and trust his claim and that he is town but lets get to me...

I have claimed and what I have claimed is true but do people trust me, no i don´t think so

You have to work on and build up the trust

[Hinckley]

Isn´t there a big difference, I believe and trust his claim and that he is town but lets get to me...

I have claimed and what I have claimed is true but do people trust me, no i don´t think so

You have to work on and build up the trust

Aren't you changing what you said? Why are you talking about if people trust you when you clearly were talking about Derek the first time?

[Mencot]

Yes I was talking about Derek but I used myself as an exemple in this claim, believe and trust thingy

It was an exemple, ofcourse I haven´t claimed a known PR only my "alterego"

[MetroiD]

You have to work on and build up the trust

True words.

Apparently, most of you seem to think that it's best to claim one's alter-ego to someone we trust, be that the claimed Monster Cop or our self-confessed button-pushing wine addict Helen. Whether that does indeed build up the trust on both sides, I'm not sure - the only thing I'm sure about is that this would turn our days into a turn-based game of waiting and hoping on one or two Monsters to lead the way. And what if they're not Monsters?... If trust is the key here, I don't think it should only be vested in one person - but then again, the more Monsters babble about their alter-egos, the more opportunities the Councilors will have to connect the dots. On the other hand, we still have absolutely no guarantees with regards to whether alter-egos are connected to power roles or allegiances, so all of this might in the end lead us nowhere - at least in terms of usefulness of alter-egos. However, it will still give us more opportunities to gauge each other's reactions than if we just sit back and talk about the same thing over and over.

In the off chance it does help us though, I've actually followed our clown's suggestion (never ever thought I'd say that... but then again I'm a hairdresser, what do you expect). Cards on the table and all... let's see where that gets us today.

[Piratedave84]

Sorry, I didn't see that.

Also, to the comments saying that I was the one that ended up hammering the vote, while that is true, I must say that it was to avoid the non-lynch. I know it's a bit hypocritical for me to say, but I just pointed out that I thought it was odd how Timothy was pushing very hard for the lynch of the starfish.

Where?

Here:

I'll do it, but only to have a lynch. I'm not one hundred percent certain on this.

Vote: Kingsley of the Starfish / KingOfTheZempk

Why are people claiming their roles so quickly, especially on day one. Also, scarecrow doesn't seem like a "blocky" type of person. While it does scare away crows, it's not necessarily a blocker. Is it? I don't know. It is more monstery then Fortune Teller.

or Here:

I find it very odd that Helen continues to say "Hey, let's claim who we are" but hasn't actually done that yet.

Oh, here's something else I noticed:

SNIP

You seemed really really insistent on voting off Kingsley. This is just on the last page of Day 1, I'm not sure if there are more posts like this, but why are you so pushy that we vote him off?

I don't really see where you are saying you think it was odd, what I see is you trying to shift the attention from your bad, very bad, vote which hammered a possible PR to someone else. I'm not saying Timmy is not suspicious for having been so addamant on the lynch but ... yeah, your vote and it's subsenquent justification really does not look good. You sealed the faith of the alleged town blocker, you had every right to hold off on voting if you felt it was odd.

Can we vote now?

True words.

Apparently, most of you seem to think that it's best to claim one's alter-ego to someone we trust, be that the claimed Monster Cop or our self-confessed button-pushing wine addict Helen. Whether that does indeed build up the trust on both sides, I'm not sure - the only thing I'm sure about is that this would turn our days into a turn-based game of waiting and hoping on one or two Monsters to lead the way. And what if they're not Monsters?... If trust is the key here, I don't think it should only be vested in one person - but then again, the more Monsters babble about their alter-egos, the more opportunities the Councilors will have to connect the dots. On the other hand, we still have absolutely no guarantees with regards to whether alter-egos are connected to power roles or allegiances, so all of this might in the end lead us nowhere - at least in terms of usefulness of alter-egos. However, it will still give us more opportunities to gauge each other's reactions than if we just sit back and talk about the same thing over and over.

In the off chance it does help us though, I've actually followed our clown's suggestion (never ever thought I'd say that... but then again I'm a hairdresser, what do you expect). Cards on the table and all... let's see where that gets us today.

I don't think we will be able to accurately determine roles based on alter-egos but we could easily catch scum should there be 2 identical alterego claims; I think it's worth it.

Also, Pamela are you going to say something or just sit there starring at us?

[Peanuts]

I don't think we will be able to accurately determine roles based on alter-egos but we could easily catch scum should there be 2 identical alterego claims; I think it's worth it.

Also, Pamela are you going to say something or just sit there starring at us?

Just because I'm in the room, doesn't mean I have the time to contribute, you know?

What we currently know seems to suggest that power roles have less monster-y identities than vanillas. I'm sure the scum would love to find out whether that's true or not. Nothing here has convinced me that it's a good idea to share our identities yet. If I shared my identity, I think I'd prefer to tell it to Derek in private, seeing as there's no counterclaim.

[Hinckley]

Hasn't it been 24 hours? Can't we vote now?

Does it make sense to Vote: Bleeb (Bob)? Isn't it weird that he hammered Kingsley with little explanation yet tries to blame the whole thing on Timothy today? Doesn't it seem like he wanted a dead townie to try to get Timothy lynched?

Why is it so quiet? Haven't a lot of people told me in private they would vote for Bleeb? Why is everyone waiting to vote?

Does it bother anyone else that people keep saying the roleclaims we've heard must be real because the Scum wouldn't risk three to save one? If they did risk that haven't they succeeded in keeping all three safe at this point? How do you verify an investigator? Is an un-contested claim enough?

[Peanuts]

Does it bother anyone else that people keep saying the roleclaims we've heard must be real because the Scum wouldn't risk three to save one? If they did risk that haven't they succeeded in keeping all three safe at this point? How do you verify an investigator? Is an un-contested claim enough?

Who keeps saying that? I know I said it backs up the investigator claim. I never said it must be real. Also, it's technically two to save one, isn't it? I can only think of the Faith Healers.

But it's Day Two. We've had one lynch. Keeping themselves safe for a day isn't much of an achievement. No, an uncontested claim is not enough, that's why I haven't told Derek my identity yet. But it's the best we have. And as far as I can tell, we can only verify him two ways: Him finding scum or us lynching him. I prefer the former.

I can see where you are coming from with the accusation against Bleeb. I find it weird how he tries to make a case against Timothy, only because Timothy insisted on lynching Kingsley, which many of us stood behind. There's nothing scummy about the fact that Timothy doesn't want to end a without a lynch. And Bleeb placed the hammer vote without voicing his doubts about Timothy, it's definitely odd that he now tries to blame Timothy.

I'm still more suspicious of Carl Nemoss for the reasons I pointed out earlier. But the case against Bleeb makes sense and I wouldn't miss him too much, so I'd be willing to lynch either of the two.

[Hinckley]

Just because I'm in the room, doesn't mean I have the time to contribute

Isn't there a difference between going idle and actively lurking?

Aren't Peter, Pam and Lacey all kind of just hovering around here?

Who keeps saying that?

No.

Also, it's technically two to save one, isn't it?

No.

I'm still more suspicious of Carl Nemoss for the reasons I pointed out earlier.

Do I think I should look that over?

[Piratedave84]

I'm going to Vote: Bleeb (Bob) for reasons outlined previously.

Whilst reviewing the day one thread I also found this:

SNIP

Personally, I'd be more confident in lynching one of the Derek bandwagoners. Caitie is one that sticks out to me - she has had very little to say, turned up and got her vote in early, and hasn't had anything to say about the changing situation since.

But if we really have to test this theory that all monsters must have monster alter-egos , then I'd be a lot happier lynching the faith healer than our potential cop, even if the other faith healer does turn up. I'd much rather lose a weak protector (who, if scum, is under no obligation to actually protect a promised target) than an investigator.

SNIP

He's the only one to ever mention (from what i could see at a quick glance) Caitie's name and she turned up dead.

[LegoDad]

Who keeps saying that? I know I said it backs up the investigator claim. I never said it must be real. Also, it's technically two to save one, isn't it? I can only think of the Faith Healers.

But it's Day Two. We've had one lynch. Keeping themselves safe for a day isn't much of an achievement. No, an uncontested claim is not enough, that's why I haven't told Derek my identity yet. But it's the best we have. And as far as I can tell, we can only verify him two ways: Him finding scum or us lynching him. I prefer the former.

I can see where you are coming from with the accusation against Bleeb. I find it weird how he tries to make a case against Timothy, only because Timothy insisted on lynching Kingsley, which many of us stood behind. There's nothing scummy about the fact that Timothy doesn't want to end a without a lynch. And Bleeb placed the hammer vote without voicing his doubts about Timothy, it's definitely odd that he now tries to blame Timothy.

I'm still more suspicious of Carl Nemoss for the reasons I pointed out earlier. But the case against Bleeb makes sense and I wouldn't miss him too much, so I'd be willing to lynch either of the two.

The longer it has gone without anybody counter-claiming Derek, the more I have to believe that he is what he says he is. However, nothing concrete has come from him, as in any results, so I'm still worried about everybody giving him information. I'm just not convinced that the positives outweigh the negatives right now. At the same time, what else do we have to go on? Voting habits? By that M.O. we should be looking at Bleeb and Timothy for their respective roles in that lynch, and then Bleeb going off and pointing fingers immediately on Day 2 about Timothy was odd. Defensive much? He's my favorite for the moment, and since we can unvote, I'll

Vote: Bleeb (Bob)

[Hinckley]

He's the only one to ever mention (from what i could see at a quick glance) Caitie's name and she turned up dead.

So what?

Is it good or bad that the lurkers are voting for Bleeb?

[Peanuts]

Isn't there a difference between going idle and actively lurking?

Aren't Peter, Pam and Lacey all kind of just hovering around here?

I guess right now you can't tell me when I've been lurking, but once you can, I'd be interested to learn.

Do I think I should look that over?

Damn, your speech affection is annoying. I really hope you'll be better soon.

I'm going to Vote: Bleeb (Bob) for reasons outlined previously.

Whilst reviewing the day one thread I also found this:

He's the only one to ever mention (from what i could see at a quick glance) Caitie's name and she turned up dead.

Actually, I mentioned her too. I found her suspicious. Guess I was wrong.

[Piratedave84]

So what?

Is it good or bad that the lurkers are voting for Bleeb?

Nothing, it's just something I stumbled upon, could mean something .. or it could not.

Should we not explore leads, small or insignificant as they may be. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought this was how you catch scum

[Hinckley]

All this?

Derek has claimed investigator, which is both the most common and the most powerful role.

By the way, I've looked at what you said yesterday, which didn't take too long, since you didn't say very much yesterday. Even Henry the Hair Brush said more than you.

Your first post was pure roleplaying, which is okay in the dawn of the first day.

In your second post, you basically reiterate why everyone else was voting Derek: He said he had non-monster figure when the rest of us had monsters.

And in the third post:

Okay, fair enough.

You seem to mix up role cop and cop here. Also, you go to great lengths to explain that Fortune Teller is not a monster. We get it.

And you seem to be very intent on lynching our Cop. Helen mentioned that the Faith Healer's identity was less of a monster, and that's why she wante dto lynch the Faith Healer instead: To test if that's the case.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "the rest of us know even less about this new claim then we know about the last one". I'll assume that the last one refers to Derek's cop claim (the other Faith Healer had not claimed at that point, for all we know), so duh, we knew everything about Derek's claim. About the Faith Healer, we knew everything but the person claiming and the identity. It sounds like you were fishing for more info, though.

And that's all you said. And everything about your posts is scummy in my opinion.

I just realized that this sentence can be hard to understand. To clarify: I meant, Helen wanted to lynch the Faith Healer to see if there are monsters without a monster alter ego.

Sorry

Yeah I don't say much, I'll admit it. And in the previous post I just made, I will admit I had mixed up that section about the weak PR. All the claims yesterday threw me for a loop Either way, I still don't trust Derek.

I hope you get it. A fortune teller is not a moster--we've seen a vampire and a scarecrow thus far. The former a clear monster, the latter not as monster-ish, but both are non-human. I know my monster alter ego is also non-human; Helen has also said her's is the mummy (If I remember right), but also not human. Which one is not like the others?

I'm intent on lynching Derek because I don't trust his claim.

On the bolded section, I'm refering to the fact that the first claim (Derek) is direct form the source--everyone can see it in public and we can all make our own opinions. The second claim, from the faith healer through Helen is secondary, we get everything from Helen, and also we only get things that Helen tells us. I asked specifically for the alter-ego from this healer (I was directly fishing yes), as did Clarissa, and from my knowledge, we've (the public) not recived an answer yet.

As I just said, we are getting everything secondary--we don't know the person nor their ego--which just so happen to be two very important things right now. As you said we knew everything about Derek's claim, however we are far from knowing everything about the healer's claim. I'm not saying Helen is witholding information for a devious reason, clearly more it's for protection of the person; but we should know about this suspiscious alter ego--the role is out there, why cann't the ego be? We now have enough claims and conformations of ego's to find a trend. Vampire, Scarecrow, Mummy, Fortune Teller...this new less monster-ish ego...my own is more monsterous then the last two ones--which doesn't help me belive them at all.

I was talking about egos in private with someone just a while ago, and they said that perhaps the egos don't mean really anything, since that person's ego was very monsterous but didn't do anything; but I disagreed, everything is here for a reason. There is a reason we have egos, and that reason is that they are connected to roles; otherwise why would they be included in the first place. One may ask why I keep bringing it up, but it's because I feel we can find the ego that doesn't match the role; we can find the fake role in the list of true ones.

Fair enough.

[Piratedave84]

Helen is lurking, she has been here for 10 minutes and has not said anything, quick give her grief over it!

[Hinckley]

Nothing, it's just something I stumbled upon, could mean something .. or it could not.

Should we not explore leads, small or insignificant as they may be. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought this was how you catch scum

Do you think the Scum would broadcast who they were going to kill by accusing them?

[Peanuts]

All this?

And this:

I think you should try to keep the claims straight from now on. It really helps a lot.

Well, that doesn't change the fact that either Helen is lying or we have two more claimed non-monsters. The main part of the accusation against Derek was that he said he had a non-monster identity, which some people, me included, interpreted as slip-up.

I myself doubt the scum would risk two more of their own just to save one, so apparently there are townies without monstrous alter egos.

Also, not only did the faith healers confirm that not all townies have monster identities, but they also confirmed that they were put in the style of "monster ______", which a scum member had no wayof knowing (unless somebody let it slip).

All this makes it less likely that Derek is scum, yet you keep pushing for his lynch.

Well, that's standard town play, not everyone can have all the info, or the scum will have it too. I'm not sure if I want to have the alter egos published, but if Helen says they are less monstrous than Fortune Teller, I'll have to believe her judgement.

But you have my sympathy, I'm sure it's hard to play scum when everyone's withholding valuable information from you.

How are the names and the secret identities of the Faith Healers important? The names won't come into importance unless we decide to lynch them, and the identities only in order to back up Derek's claim, and as I said, we'll have to go with Helen's judgement.

Considering that all the power roles we know of so far don't fall into what would usually be called a monster (Fortune Teller, Scarecrow, whatever the Faith Healers are) one might come to the conclusion that that power role equals non-monstrous secret identity. Or not, I have no idea, and I don't want to discuss this theory too much, as it only helps the scum.

Yeah, that sums it up.