Modular standard for elevated city?

[Wodanis]

Ok, so I found that on the curved portions I had to leave out a few pillars. I believe the weight balance can be maintained by use of more technic pins to connect the two curved ends to another section in the corner. (There is a corner pillar on the section between the two curved sections though you do not see it in the last two photos.)That should brace it sufficiently depending on the weight of the modular building above. I would certainly use this design overall. Now I just have to start work on a open space subway section to below the main street level. Does this help you out at all Brickgrrl?

Edited February 13, 2014 by Wodanis

[elleana]

Oh gee you guys are amazing. I had all these random vague ideas in my mind on how OP could do this and try to put them into words, and then next time I log back on there are a dozen iterations of LDD renders, each better than the last, and illustrating specific concepts on why they were done this way.

[brickgrrl]

Wow. I went to bed, and look what happened here!

Time to dig through my bricks and see if I can get some of this into bricks -- will certainly need some ordering but I might have enough for a test module. I laid in a pile of 2x16 plates when I was buying girders, but I don't have much in 1x16 bricks, technic or otherwise. Hmm.

In case others thinking about it adopt W's suggested turn: I don't think there's actually enough clearance -- some of the trains swing really wide.

I have a 7 year old who might actually enjoy testing train turning requirements. We will report back once the sun is up here in Virginia. Not like we are going anywhere today anyway!

[Wodanis]

Oh gee you guys are amazing. I had all these random vague ideas in my mind on how OP could do this and try to put them into words, and then next time I log back on there are a dozen iterations of LDD renders, each better than the last, and illustrating specific concepts on why they were done this way.

Thank you Elleana. You are very kind.

Wow. I went to bed, and look what happened here!

Time to dig through my bricks and see if I can get some of this into bricks -- will certainly need some ordering but I might have enough for a test module. I laid in a pile of 2x16 plates when I was buying girders, but I don't have much in 1x16 bricks, technic or otherwise. Hmm.

In case others thinking about it adopt W's suggested turn: I don't think there's actually enough clearance -- some of the trains swing really wide.

I have a 7 year old who might actually enjoy testing train turning requirements. We will report back once the sun is up here in Virginia. Not like we are going anywhere today anyway!

Hi Brickgrrl. If clearance is an issue the corner pillar on the curve could be taken out. I used mainly 2x12 and 1x12 plates on the modification. The technic bricks are 1x14. I'd be interested to see what Sin has come up with for the corners. His design is wider but means that the bottom portion isn't modular. Depends on what you really need it to be.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Wodanis

[brickgrrl]

Here's my space:

The narrower shelf is only 12 inches (37 studs), so I definitely need a subway if I'm going to fit buildings, too. Still haven't decided on the wider side yet, which is about 52 studs deep.

[sin]

Hi Brickgrrl. If clearance is an issue the corner pillar on the curve could be taken out. I used mainly 2x12 and 1x12 plates on the modification. The technic bricks are 1x14. I'd be interested to see what Sin has come up with for the corners. His design is wider but means that the bottom portion isn't modular. Depends on what you really need it to be.

How did you know?

I made some drastic changes to the layout of the pillars in my LDD file, my design is basically just like yours at this point. Making the bottom sections modular also makes for easy replication and experimentation with the rails.

The biggest difference in how we each chose to go about building the curve is that my design has the train rails closer to the outside of the layout, your has them on the inside. I played with both options, but staying on the outside allowed to contain the curve a lot more cleanly. This will be hard to verbalize so I will post some pics when in a few after I upload them.

I still have to come up with a placement for the central support on the curve extremity and technic surface frame. Details, details

Alright here is where I am at right now:

Here is an overhead shot that shows pretty clearly where I placed the rails

The light grey plates and tiles on the baseplates are the support for the rail so its fairly easy to see where it runs. I did play around with using jumpers to keep the rail centered (rails is 8 studs wide, but there are 9 studs between the edge and middle pillar bases) however this caused the rail to hang 1/2 stud off the end of the baseplate after a 90 degree turn.

One thing I would note about the way I have the curve laid out - I have a couple of straight sections halfway through the curve that could be eliminated to keep this layout 3 baseplates deep as opposed to the 4 that I have shown here. With the continuous curve the rails still meet up with the edge of the baseplates perfectly.

[Wodanis]

How did you know?

I made some drastic changes to the layout of the pillars in my LDD file, my design is basically just like yours at this point. Making the bottom sections modular also makes for easy replication and experimentation with the rails.

The biggest difference in how we each chose to go about building the curve is that my design has the train rails closer to the outside of the layout, your has them on the inside. I played with both options, but staying on the outside allowed to contain the curve a lot more cleanly. This will be hard to verbalize so I will post some pics when in a few after I upload them.

I still have to come up with a placement for the central support on the curve extremity and technic surface frame. Details, details

Looks like we are of two minds on this. I assume from what you've done that you moved the start of the curve halfway on the prior baseplate to the corner portion? Looks that way. I really like what you've come up with Sin! I saw Brickgrrl's space and realised she doesn't have much room to play with. So I came up with a simple solution below. I stripped away the base of the columns to provide more clearance and wondered if it would be better to let the curve be out in the open as it has to pass through a wall.

[sin]

I see what you mean after watching the video, for her layout the rail would have to travel through the opening in the wall independently or it would take a lot of tinkering to get a structure to fit just so.

I would caution about the removal of the base supports though. The modular buildings weigh around 7lbs each, with the supports bare like that imagine what would happen if the upper part took a good hit parallel to the ground. I think you could maintain enough clearance by beginning the curve a half plate later, as you noted in your last post.

[Wodanis]

I see what you mean after watching the video, for her layout the rail would have to travel through the opening in the wall independently or it would take a lot of tinkering to get a structure to fit just so.

I would caution about the removal of the base supports though. The modular buildings weigh around 7lbs each, with the supports bare like that imagine what would happen if the upper part took a good hit parallel to the ground. I think you could maintain enough clearance by beginning the curve a half plate later, as you noted in your last post.

You are probably right. Didn't necessarily wish to remove the extra supports only for a practical solution. Perhaps using the 2x2x3 slopes back to back with a brick underneath would compensate? I realised you were right about moving the tracks over to the opposite side on the baseplate would work better. I suppose if we were doing this with real bricks I could see things clearer. I'm redoing the design similar to what you have now and for my own purposes will place a subway platform on the straight portion between the two curves tracks.

Oh and I meant to say 'one mind'. Oops.

Edited February 13, 2014 by Wodanis

[brickgrrl]

This is great stuff. Wish I had room for the smoother turn.

I got 64x36 (not a typo) for a straight section assembled this morning. I'm using multiple layers of 2x plates as I don't have much technic, but I was pretty happy with apparent stability. Photo soon!

I'm not going to modularize the lower portion, although it is a great, very elegant idea. But I don't need the ability to move it easily, and it reduces the part count a lot.

My removable modular buildings on the narrow shelf are going to be 24 studs deep. 16 for the building and 8 for the sidewalk in front. And then the road and small median at the edge are permanently attached to the train base.

[sin]

I'm looking forward to seeing your creation brickgrrl, I will be checking back for pictures!

Despite Wodanis' and my efforts being total overkill the completionist in me had to finish at least the subway loop and support structure for the ground level...

The corner technic support frames needed a lot of tweaking to maintain strength with the supports being moved to fit the rails. I'm not positive that it provides enough room for the train through the curves but after playing around with my son's yellow cargo train a bit I think it should work.

On the curve modules I reinforced the bottom of the technic joints with the inverted roundish plates that can be seen in this picture. These were directly below the supports on the original module and had to be strengthened when the supports were moved.

I don't want to hijack this thread so I may continue this in a new thread in the town or train forum

Good luck brickgrrl, thanks for making this thread, it's been fun!

Edited February 13, 2014 by sin

[brickgrrl]

I don't think you hijacked it at all! :)

[Wodanis]

Very cool Sin! It has been fun! I also will be looking forward to seeing what you achieved Brickgrrl. At the moment I'm trying to think of how to design my subway platform and how I would arrange the street overall.

[dignow]

Wow, I mean really impressive work all around. The LDD renders are great, the idea is awesome, but what really puts this over the top for me is that someone has cut holes in dry wall to accommodate their train! I love it! Also love all of the support structure. We've never made room in our layout to place the train tracks on the base plates with the rest of the city and have always tinkered with an elevated track and station concept - will definitely be putting some of all this hard work to use in Godwins Hollow.

[cei]

Silly question, but can you not use these - http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=32555 - to support the technic frame when you can't have a support underneath? Far better than a few inverted plates.

[elleana]

Apologies for bumping an old(ish) topic but has anyone - brickgrrl / Wodanis / sin - made any progress on this? I was reminded of this thread after seeing this fantastic Moc diorama http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=103648.

I am now re-inspired to elevate my city and have trains underneath it. Time for yet another massive bricklink order, this time for girders and technic bricks.

[Wodanis]

Apologies for bumping an old(ish) topic but has anyone - brickgrrl / Wodanis / sin - made any progress on this? I was reminded of this thread after seeing this fantastic Moc diorama http://www.eurobrick...howtopic=103648.

I am now re-inspired to elevate my city and have trains underneath it. Time for yet another massive bricklink order, this time for girders and technic bricks.

Hi Elleana, I haven't personally made any of these designs at the moment. I thought that I would eventually do something like this when I have the space and need to (ie subway). I would also like to do a cost assessment once the BnP prices are back up. Right now I'm working on my quarry for miners area design.

[Wookiee]

I have started something similar.I have used 4x5 arches on top of the girder bricks and connected with 16x1s in a grid.No bricks around the girder at the bottom as it is unnessasary as when the grid starts to build up it is very stable. I have capped with tiles and left the modulars on baseplates. Due to thier weight they don't move at all and are easily removable.

I will try and post some pictures later.

Just some suggestions.

I will swap out the girders with 2x2s as i think they look better and are easily available in large quantities at reasonable prices where as the girders are not.

I will have to add a row of height to accommodate a brick built road when i get to it.

[Wookiee]

IMG_2196 by wookiee1969, on Flickr

IMG_2194 by wookiee1969, on Flickr

IMG_2192 by wookiee1969, on Flickr

IMG_2199 by wookiee1969, on Flickr

IMG_2201 by wookiee1969, on Flickr

Here are some pictures,(i hope) first time posting them here

[Wodanis]

Pretty cool Wookiee! I do like the arches. Did you design anything to hold the modulars in place? Was this costly to build?

[Wookiee]

Pretty cool Wookiee! I do like the arches. Did you design anything to hold the modulars in place? Was this costly to build?

No the modulars don't need anything to hold them except there own weight,once the road is in front though it will stop them from moving forward (brick built and offset a little) movement and sideways ,well it would take a lot of force to move them that way.

Yes it is working out pricey. mainly the 1x16s,the technics are the worse so i am trying to steer away from them now but it is just the sheer volume (i may trial some 2x8s for strength). I picked up 260 arches for 6 cents each and most of the 2x2 and 2x4 from pick a brick walls when in the U.S but need a lot more. If you steer towards bricks instead of columns it will be cheaper and easier to source and i will probably look for a cheap 1000 or so 2x2 bley bricks to move this along.

If it works out at the same price a s a couple of modulars then i suppose it is not that bad.

[elleana]

Thanks, Wookiee, your pictures are very helpful.

You mentioned you didn't really need support at the bottom of your girders as the grid was very stable. Do you think that would still be the case if I had two layers of girders? Am looking to raise my street about 20 or so bricks above the baseplate, which would need two layers of girders.

[Wookiee]

i think it would be stable,my girders are 13 or 14 high. It depends on how often you run Girders across,I am going to experiment a bit as i widen the Girders, just waiting on parts for expansion.

I am going to trial 1 girder every 24 studs instead of the doubles as this should halve the price.

I am going to keep the across thickness at 2 studs but long ways cross beams 1x16s at 1 wide. I think this type of grid will work for 20 high.

When my bricks arrive (they left Germany yesterday) i can build it 20 high and see what works and what does not.

[elleana]

I'm going to have one every 16 studs, ease of design for me since I am using 16 x 16 plates as the base for all buildings / roads. I'll have one layer of support beams (1 x 16 / 1 x 14 bricks) after each layer of girders. I think it should work. Mine should look like this from top down (can't use LDD for nuts so I will just have to describe it):

tile level just underneath building / road plates

support beams

inverse slopes

girder

support beams

inverse slopes

girder

baseplate

Total ~24 studs high

[Wookiee]

In a 16x 16 grid it will be very stable. I am spreading my cross supports further (going to try 32 studs) in one direction as i think it will take it and for easier access of man hands. The bigger it gets the more stable it seems to be.