About the Modular Western Town?

[The_Cook]

Really, practically, the only way to bring back that MWT set would probably be for Lego to literally hire Marshall. Bring him in house even as a work for hire contractor. But it would have to be wholly outside the CuuSoo system. The Dr. Who projects can be re submited because they have never gotten 10k votes or been sent for review. It's a wholly different set of problems, and much easier ones to work around.

I would still suggest that another way would be for Marshall to resubmit the project to CuuSoo. The project would have to go back through the process from the start and gain 10,000 votes again but at that point it should be considered again based on the criteria in existence at the current point in time. The hope being that any restrictions the LR license imposed would have cleared by the time it reaches consideration again, although it may well fail for other reasons. The point is that because it's gone back through due process it would be valid to consider it on it's own merits at that point in time.

It should be said that this approach would only make sense for projects that might have passed review but were not considered because of bad timing around licenses or IP; those sets that have been discontinued due to size, complexity or don't fit with Lego's brand image shouldn't resubmit because those criteria are unlikely to have changed over time.

Edited February 27, 2014 by The_Cook

[rodiziorobs]

@Faefrost:

Sorry, I realize I wasn't very clear before. This

I would still suggest that another way would be for Marshall to resubmit the project to CuuSoo.

was what I meant with that last post of mine. Now (or soon, whenever it is) with the LR license expired, a single set from the MWT could be resubmitted, as the update suggests for previously rejected projects that had a license conflict (as was probably the case with the MWT project).

Obviously, the original MWT project is dead, and cannot come back. Any resubmitted project would have to conform to the current guidelines (single set, not theme, etc.), but then, as The Cook pointed out, it would be judged on its own merits at that point in time, whenever it reached 10k.

[Dorayaki]

No it would not. The MWT was given a full review and rejected at that time. It was rejected for clear legitimate and business reasons. In order for CuuSoo to work, without opening up a literal Megablokstorm of legal squabbles over designs, ideas, etc, The end result of a review must be a binary yes or no. Any word or action that hints at a "maybe" or a "we may re examine this later" has the potential to give the CuuSoo designer leverage over an ever broader swath of internal design work. What if Lego chooses to do an unlicensed Western theme once the contracts from LR end? They have all of the nice new molds. Any vague action on their part with CuuSoo could give a third party designer an argument for a piece of that next theme. Which is a situation that no manufacturer will tolerate.

If a project makes it to review, and is fully reviewed, if it passes it becomes the property of TLG and proceeds to production. If it is failed for any reason all rights are transferred back to the creator. TLG relinquishes all designs, rights, etc with the understanding that they will not use his designs and he may do as he wishes with them. TLG holds nothing at that point. They take steps to insure that there can be no legitimate question of using those designs at a later date or for a different project sort of thing. If they even once go back to a failed project to bring it back for production at a later date, it opens the door that all others may be under consideration, and in turn may have a claim against some later product line that dances close to their subject matter. Toss in existing or ongoing licenses and it quickly is a nightmare.

It's still a smalll progress for Cuusoo. Not saying that all licenses can be clrealy explained, but it does help the project creators alittle bit.

Remember that we still don't know if any clear relationship between LR and the MWT project exist, for the reason stated in the OP. In such kind of saying. the major problem is that the conflict between original products and licenses (only benefical reasons, not the actual product design conflicts) would never be clear because there are lots of examples TLC keep making both at the same time, like SW with Space. If TLC make no announcement, regardless of whether it's reasonable or not, they won't have legal reasons to turn it doun again.

I think this kind of announcement can be changed with time. Suppose that there is going to be another TV show license which is rival to Doctor Who so TLC can't make any Doctor Who product, they can announce it again. TLC can also say which project/license have made conflicts and how long this conflict would be. They can also forbid creators to submit certain licenses or generic themes if they want to do so, no matter if these make sense or not.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Dorayaki

[Faefrost]

I would still suggest that another way would be for Marshall to resubmit the project to CuuSoo. The project would have to go back through the process from the start and gain 10,000 votes again but at that point it should be considered again based on the criteria in existence at the current point in time. The hope being that any restrictions the LR license imposed would have cleared by the time it reaches consideration again, although it may well fail for other reasons. The point is that because it's gone back through due process it would be valid to consider it on it's own merits at that point in time.

It should be said that this approach would only make sense for projects that might have passed review but were not considered because of bad timing around licenses or IP; those sets that have been discontinued due to size, complexity or don't fit with Lego's brand image shouldn't resubmit because those criteria are unlikely to have changed over time.

@Faefrost:

Sorry, I realize I wasn't very clear before. This

was what I meant with that last post of mine. Now (or soon, whenever it is) with the LR license expired, a single set from the MWT could be resubmitted, as the update suggests for previously rejected projects that had a license conflict (as was probably the case with the MWT project).

Obviously, the original MWT project is dead, and cannot come back. Any resubmitted project would have to conform to the current guidelines (single set, not theme, etc.), but then, as The Cook pointed out, it would be judged on its own merits at that point in time, whenever it reached 10k.

Sending it back through CuuSoo again would be great for MWT and it's fans. But it would be horrible for CuuSoo as a whole, and the design review team. Look at the CuuSoo rules lawyers around here, fighting for any hope to resurrect a project that did not pass review? Now replace the MWT fans with the somewhat more dedicated and intense Nintendo or Zelda fan base. Just imagine what happens if they are told that you can continually resubmit rejected proposals until you get a result you like? Yes the MWT was a victim of timing. Those sadly happen all the time in business. But often trying to undo them causes a ton more problems than simply moving on.

[TheBrickPal]

Interesting ideas. It could have easily been a lie, maybe because LEGO does not want to produce such a CUUSOO set of that size. I doubt it, though. I disagree with what you said, though. Even though the size is different, the Modular Western Town could have easily competed with Colby City Showdown from The Lone Ranger theme. I doubt The LEGO Movie had anything to do with it, even thought there is a western town in the Old West realm.

[Faefrost]

The size would not matter. The very existence of it as a "Western Theme" set would have given Disney veto power under the license contract. Do we know this for 100% certainty? No, no one ever discusses precise business contracts. But it is such a common license contract requirement that it would be more shocking for its absence. TLG entered into an agreement for a licensed western theme tied to a big budget movie. This, like most licenses, had certain exclusive no compete clauses. Disney is particularly well known for them. That contract and the movie related sales is worth far far more to TLG than a 20,000 piece CuuSoo run. Even if the movie flopped the numbers are still way better. So they made the only decision that could. Reject the CuuSoo project.

Could they resurrect the MWT? Yes. Will they? Heck no! Once again it is a 20,000 piece D2C unlicensed CuuSoo set? In a Theme that probably didn't blow the doors off anybody when it just had a license backing it. Bringing it back would cause far far more issues than it would be worth to them. Aside from a small niche fan base there really is no reason for them to even consider it. As I said above, it fell victim to bad timing, but businesses will almost never revisit bad timing projects.

[TheLegoDr]

I agree with a lot that was said here, but what about the Female Minifigure Set and the previous Land Rover (I think) that said we are still looking into this set. How is that not a 'maybe?' I know it says that for the Female set currently. They ended up rejecting the other sets that were maybes, but it is a maybe.

Now I agree, you wouldn't want to have a maybe floating out there and then reject it, only to have your own theme come about that is eerily similar. Obviously internal conflicts arise, but to say maybe and then no, vs just no, can be a big deal.

[Faefrost]

I agree with a lot that was said here, but what about the Female Minifigure Set and the previous Land Rover (I think) that said we are still looking into this set. How is that not a 'maybe?' I know it says that for the Female set currently. They ended up rejecting the other sets that were maybes, but it is a maybe.

Now I agree, you wouldn't want to have a maybe floating out there and then reject it, only to have your own theme come about that is eerily similar. Obviously internal conflicts arise, but to say maybe and then no, vs just no, can be a big deal.

That is a project that is still in review. Or that the review has not yet been fully completed on. Which is not really the same sort of "maybe". Something in the project caused a secondary or extended review. My best guess for the Thinking With Portals set was the new proposed structural elements, which would themselves need a separate review (and were probably the source of the later decision of "no way no how no new parts" rule change.) The Landrover was probably a factor of the shear complexity and tolerances of its design, which required a much deeper engineering review than normal. At this point the Female Minifigs is anybodies guess. It might be that there is a potential internal conflict that is not yet definite. Some Lego theme or project that is under development but has not yet been greenlit, or some ongoing but not yet complete license discussion. So they are holding a final decision on the Female Minifigs until they see that outcome. That would be somewhat in line with what they did with MWT and LR. They did not shut down the project while license discussions were under way with Disney. It did not become an insurmountable issue until there was an absolute conflict.

But none of that is "not now, maybe later". Or "we may revisit this at a later time". It is simply "we have not yet completed this review". As I said it's not really a maybe. It's just not a yes or no yet. And there is a limited amount of time they can theoretically do that.

[Dorayaki]

If there is an obvious conflcit that TLC can make sure that they can't do it, yes, there isn't "maybe later" like those unconfimred projects. However, the issue here is the reason of rejection they gave, which could be not clear enough, or just unreasonable. If there are both a clear answer and a guideline of license/themes, it wouldn't have been much troublesome.

[Faefrost]

If there is an obvious conflcit that TLC can make sure that they can't do it, yes, there isn't "maybe later" like those unconfimred projects. However, the issue here is the reason of rejection they gave, which could be not clear enough, or just unreasonable. If there are both a clear answer and a guideline of license/themes, it wouldn't have been much troublesome.

MWT was a victim of bad timing. we knew that subjects that touch on licensed themes rightfully face risks of license conflicts. and where they are known to exist CuuSoo is pretty good at announcing them and disallowing the conflicting projects. There are some that are unpredictable as they will require input from the licensor as part of the review. Things like the Sandcrawler which would require not only Lego's review teams approval but that from Lucasfilms and Disney. (figure any already existing license will face some extra unknowns because of this sort of thing. just because Lego has a license does not mean the license holder will agree to extend it to a CuuSoo project. They have their own plans and desires.) In the case of MWT no one out here realized that Western was a theme that was facing a license acquisition. And Lego as the one seeking the license could not publicly reveal it until it was finalized and the license holder agreed. And neither party would have any desire to disrupt their legal and business schedules to work around or accommodate a fan sourced CuuSoo project. The MWT hit review in a period where TLG's internal business dealings were in effect but not yet publicly known. Hence it hit an unknown conflict. It is probably a one in a million chance (for an unlicensed project at least. Substantially less so for a licensed one.) and honestly there is no real problem to solve there or work around. TLG is not going to make CuuSoo privy to their business dealings. They certainly will not be telegraphing their business actions via CuuSoo. and they certainly aren't going to second guess their actions or revisit such things for an experimental fan/hobbiest mechanism such as CuuSoo. What little problem they had has already been fixed. They are no longer telling us why projects fail review so we can't do all this hand waving second guessing internet rules lawyering.

The best solution for fans of the MWT. Submit a nice western project. Put a Saloon up there. Not a whole town like the MWT. Just a single building. A classic Saloon. Don't simply copy the MWT. Just put forth and push a project. Chances are by the time it hits 10k the LR license will be inactive long enough that it will have either expired, or Lego and Disney will have no desire to enforce it.

[Dorayaki]

MWT was a victim of bad timing. we knew that subjects that touch on licensed themes rightfully face risks of license conflicts. and where they are known to exist CuuSoo is pretty good at announcing them and disallowing the conflicting projects. There are some that are unpredictable as they will require input from the licensor as part of the review. Things like the Sandcrawler which would require not only Lego's review teams approval but that from Lucasfilms and Disney. (figure any already existing license will face some extra unknowns because of this sort of thing. just because Lego has a license does not mean the license holder will agree to extend it to a CuuSoo project. They have their own plans and desires.)

The best solution for fans of the MWT. Submit a nice western project. Put a Saloon up there. Not a whole town like the MWT. Just a single building. A classic Saloon. Don't simply copy the MWT. Just put forth and push a project. Chances are by the time it hits 10k the LR license will be inactive long enough that it will have either expired, or Lego and Disney will have no desire to enforce it.

I personally believe that the TLG/Cuusoo team have the responsibility to make it as clear as possible in order to prevent project creators from wasting their times, while some internal business dealings can't be declared in Cuusoo. The current problem is that guidelines mostly tend to describe the conflict of physical design, not projects for beneficial reasons. Doctor Who might be the first step, and I hope to see they simply announce other (un)available themes and licenses.

Sandcrawler isn't a surprise since everyone knows it was already in Lego history (much like one of the guideline) and TLC would remake it on their own. I think the Cuusoo projects based on ongoing licensed need to be "not considered by TLC themselves" for reasons. For example, Minas Tirith which is larger than regular products, and a Disney Kingdom Heart which is a crossover media.

As said, the project creater may improve the original one (which should follow the new guidelines) and submit again. But since the original project got rejected, I haven't seen any news from him and cannot contact him.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Dorayaki