Personally, I'd never spend money on fan-created instructions alone in the first place.

I don't mean to sound blunt, but what does that have to do with the subject of this topic?

I don't mean to sound blunt, but what does that have to do with the subject of this topic?

I'm not sure either... I have had people copy things right off of my brickshelf folder and sell them... I have also seen many things sold that were created from free instructions...

There was a guy on bricklink a little while ago that was actually selling Barman's V8 engine instructions that Barry had on Brickshelf for free...

As for what you're dealing with... it's a shame, but there's not much you can do. Personally, I'd never spend money on fan-created instructions alone in the first place.

I think I know what theyre trying to say. As a lego fan/creator, why buy someone else's set or instructions, when one could simply make their own model or interpretation? I agree with this sentiment quite a bit, as I have "stolen" MOC ideas, but never actually used anyones instructions, I dont even use Lego's official instructions.

I have had people copy things right off of my brickshelf folder and sell them... I have also seen many things sold that were created from free instructions...

There was a guy on bricklink a little while ago that was actually selling Barman's V8 engine instructions that Barry had on Brickshelf for free...

This happened last year with someone on here. They their instructions for like 5 houses plastered over EBay. I think thhe topic was posted in the General topic.

I sell instructions for my UCS MOCs. And sometimes, I see people selling the actual model on ebay or bricklink.

I do not mind as long as the guy only sells the actual model. The models belongs to him, after all.

On the constrary, the work in the instructions belongs to me.

That said, I appreciate when credit is mentionned in the auction.

I remember a guy selling his Technic collection on Norwegian auction site finn.no, and amongst all the official sets he was selling, there was also Barman's V8, Han's 10x4 truck, hauler, 8421XL, Crowkillers' Vampire GT and several others. But he stated the original builder, and even said that instructions would have to be bought (where they weren't free) from for example Crowkillers.

IMO, selling other peoples MOCs like that, is just like selling official sets second hand.

In other words, when you do it like that, giving credit where credit is due, and even telling people they need to pay the creator, that's 100 % OK in my eyes

His prices are insane to! He is still selling stuff on finn last time i checked. I would never buy a built moc as i like building the sets/moc's my self :)

I sell instructions for my UCS MOCs. And sometimes, I see people selling the actual model on ebay or bricklink.

I do not mind as long as the guy only sells the actual model. The models belongs to him, after all.

On the constrary, the work in the instructions belongs to me.

That said, I appreciate when credit is mentionned in the auction.

Your logic is quite appropriate. In legal terms, you cannot copyright the arrangement of Lego pieces, but you may copyright and maintain exclusive rights to building instructions for such arrangement, photos of the model, and other materials or content that you create yourself.

Because of this, and the fact that most people in the "regular" world don't share the deep regard for Lego, and/or recognize the talent in our community, it would be very difficult to successfully challenge someone duplicating one's Lego design. I do find it despicable behavior, particularly since our community is so kindred, it is shameful and disrespectful to not even give credit to the designer (whom the seller is now making money from).

@Pat: Have a look at this. Totaly crazy this guy... http://kleinanzeigen.ebay.de/anzeigen/s-anzeige/30-bauanleitungen-fuer-lego®-technic-unimog-8110-u400-technik/174322806-23-7957?ref=search

Tim

The only time I would buy a built MOC would be one of Crowkillers charity auctions.

@Pat: Have a look at this. Totaly crazy this guy... http://kleinanzeigen...7957?ref=search

Tim

that guy is totally out of his mind, selling the mocs ok, but the building instructions from someone else. doesn't the world know the words credit and respect anymore?

He's selling those on the auction house, too... They are all nicely colored in black and orange. If those instructions weren't this expensive I would buy them, just for checking, if all parts are avaiable in orange, as suggested...

credit should always be given to the maker / designer. It is your hard work that has made those mocs possible not anyone else's

I remember a auction with building instructions for 30 Unimog attachments. At least half of these attachments were MOCs by Eurobricks members.

@Pat: Have a look at this. Totaly crazy this guy... http://kleinanzeigen...7957?ref=search

That's the guy I talked about in my first post...

Edited February 27, 201411 yr by stefan_betula_pendula

That's the guy I talked about in my first post...

That is BS my friend. Something needs to be done about this.

Hi guys, here is another one, this time in Oz. With no reference at all to the original designer.which is Barman and is a great design and model to build..

.....This guy has been previously selling a k1oo kenworth truck, which i think is Grazzi's design, again with no mention to the original maker. Cheers pete.

Edited March 10, 201411 yr by Blakbird
: Fixed link

Hi guys, here is another one, this time in Oz. With no reference at all to the original designer.which is Barman and is a great design and model to build..

.....This guy has been previously selling a k1oo kenworth truck, which i think is Grazzi's design, again with no mention to the original maker. Cheers pete.

You know.. After Ebay and Paypal fees, that seller's profit is going to be about zero...

HERE is a Sheepo Mustang in Black for sale for $2,000 USD... He is at least credited though in the description... It appears that there are a few pieces that the builder ran out of in black..

If people really want to sell MOCs, they should focus on their picture taking abilities.. Good pictures are what sell models...

Hi guys, here is another one, this time in Oz. With no reference at all to the original designer.which is Barman and is a great design and model to build..

.....This guy has been previously selling a k1oo kenworth truck, which i think is Grazzi's design, again with no mention to the original maker. Cheers pete.

Not sure he's doing this for a living. I built that set once, and it's huge. Not sure how much money he's making off of this. Most likely he bricklinked the set, then built it, and now he's bored of it.

... It appears that there are a few pieces that the builder ran out of in black..

... and apparently, the tyres also ..... looks like an Escalade on 15" rims ..... funny.

It appears that there are a few pieces that the builder ran out of in black..

Haha what a major ripp-off with those wrong tyres. At least he mentioned Sheepo. So I think it's at least fair in that direction. Made my day.

This is a chinese e-bay style website where are selling so many copies of my 8110 Jeep building instructions...crazy people.

I'm so sad but I was expecting this.

Unfortunately we can't (MOC's designers) do anything to stop this.

http://s.taobao.com/search?q=8110+jeep&commend=all&ssid=s5-e&search_type=mall&sourceId=tb.index&spm=a215z.7106357.5803581.d4908513

This is a chinese e-bay style website where are selling so many copies of my 8110 Jeep building instructions...crazy people.

I'm so sad but I was expecting this.

Unfortunately we can't (MOC's designers) do anything to stop this.

http://s.taobao.com/...803581.d4908513

Wow, they really have helped themselves to pretty much all MOC building instructions out there it seems! They even charge money for instructions that the designers themselves give away for free (my swingloader and Han's 10x4 just to name two).. cheeky bastards!

you cannot copyright the arrangement of Lego pieces

That is strange, I guess you can indeed copyright an arrangement of Lego pieces the same way you copyright an arrangement of notes on a score, it is a creative work. At least the RIAA makes its lawyers work hard based on that same idea.

An own creation is an own creation, isn't it? When you put a lot of time, money and effort into making a MOC, it's your work even though the material is made by TLG.

I assume making instructions might even be more of a work than making the MOC. Makes it even worse that some b*stard you don't even know just copies your hard work which you even give away for free, and even charge money for it.

That is strange, I guess you can indeed copyright an arrangement of Lego pieces the same way you copyright an arrangement of notes on a score, it is a creative work. At least the RIAA makes its lawyers work hard based on that same idea.

I agree!!! :thumbup:

I sold many building instruction around the world and, for what i have seen, this thing happened only in China.

I'm seriously thinking if there is a Paypal block for China sales.

It's unfair, i know...but I'd prefer to lose these "customers"...

That is a very go

That is strange, I guess you can indeed copyright an arrangement of Lego pieces the same way you copyright an arrangement of notes on a score, it is a creative work. At least the RIAA makes its lawyers work hard based on that same idea.

I understand your point, and I'd like to entertain it for a moment. Starting with the most basic ideas of the premise, the arrangement of Lego pieces is copyrightable product. To keep it simple, and even in context, might I copyright the arrangement of a 2x4 brick on top of another 2x4 brick, therefore having a legal basis to pursue any other design infringing on that copyright? Of course, I realize how absurd that sounds, however In your comparable context, a musician certainly can copyright an arrangement of only 2 notes (I can think if Intel that, well, actually has 4), but other companies have a trademark on a single tone (Apple trademarked 432.4 Hz). We could certainly attempt similar endowments (unlikely as it may be, as we are a proud community of sharing and learning from each-other, but I'm putting doubt aside) but it just seems like opening a can of worms to me, that would have no benefit to the community at all.

Now if I may address my initial belief, which is (or was) that I do not believe you could copyright a Lego model itself (the directions you produce to make it, certainly, and I think we agree on that). That is, I had an impression that the patented design of the Lego product(s) (where applicable) is not altered, or indistinguishable enough to serve as an original product, such as if one were to connect a macbook pro to an ipad with a lightning cable, and attempt to copyright that design. I am however, still struggling with the idea (say they gut the ipad and use its parts to decorate the macbook pro, maybe its art now?). I consider photographs and artwork is applicable for copyright, and many a Lego creation is certainly art. But then, is nobody to be able to reproduce in part or in whole any portion of the Lego model? That's a slippery slope. This is why there are always lawyers involved in these industries with these practices. I'm sure I don't want to see it come to that at least.