So 2x Horizon Express sets, one power car has PF. Pretty gutless, barely moves, mostly wheelspin.

I'm not 100% surprised, it's a heavy train, and there's no weight over the driving wheels.

I'll fix it with a second PF motor, with a switch to reverse polarity. I might also add weight to the power car, and rebuild the unpowered car bogie so that it doesn't use technic axles (binds in corners). Twin PF motors in the yellow cargo train gives it significantly more pulling power, at the cost of battery life.

Curious - do you have a Horizon Express with this problem? I don't see many people complaining about it, but it's pretty underwhelming on performance (the train itself is awesome).

On the latest exhibiton I participated there was a double horizon express, with two 9V train motors under each power car. However there was double pulling power with the two motors, the train wheels were spinning, the train accelarated really bad. If you can have some, put train wieghts to the power car (or the battery box):

http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=73090a

Also rebuilding the unpowered bogie will help a lot.

I built an extended Horizon Express (two sets plus two extra waggons), equipped with four 9V engines, two pull and two push. Total weight: approx. 3 kg.

This train manages inclinations of 8 percent without any problems, at decent speed! No spinning and amazing acceleration.

Operating on flat level, this Horizon Express indeed turns out to be a spectacular high-speed train!

The speed regulator is connected to a Voltcraft EP-925 transformer which provides enough Amps to run four engines with one speed regulator.

Edited May 12, 201410 yr by Haddock51

One motor for six cars is likely to struggle. I use two which seems to be perfectly adequate, but I o no have any hills.

I've added some curtain lead for weights in one of my trains, which works out nicely. My HE has double motors, but I believe it's the weight that has to be fixed mostly.

My 6 car HE has 2 PF motors and doesn't have any problems slipping. 2 motors for 6 cars is almost the limit though, if I added more cars I definitely add more motors. What IR controller are you using? The on/off model or the one with speed control? The simple on/off model will make the wheels slip.

I needed to run 4 on mine also, 3 you can get away with but it does still struggle

Curious - do you have a Horizon Express with this problem? I don't see many people complaining about it, but it's pretty underwhelming on performance (the train itself is awesome).

I run 2x HEs from a single PF motor in one end (in back section of front loco with battery pack in that loco too), and it runs fine for me. Not sure if it'll make a difference on traction, but my layout uses only 9V track.

HTH!

Edited March 1, 201410 yr by BricksMcgee

I can't speak for any specific issues with the Horizon Express as I don't actually own the set yet but I would hardly call the Power Functions train motors gutless. I have two in in each of my K4s Steam locomotives and just one of these engines is more than capable of pulling far more weight than what a 2 set HE should weigh. I'm wondering if there may be some issues with unintended, excessive friction at work here. Have you checked all your wheel sets to make sure they roll freely?

Cale

Edited March 2, 201410 yr by Cale

I only have one Horizon Express set. One PF motor pulls it just fine, and those cars/loco are heavier than just about anything else in my fleet. I could see one PF motor struggling with two HE sets, though. I have a Harry Potter Hogwarts Express 4841, and my son and I added several cars to it (extra passenger, old-style observation car, fish belly cargo car (to carry Weasley family Ford Cortina), and baggage/passenger combo car. That's six cars total, including the original passenger car and locomotive/tender. Also, there is extra weight from the Ford Cortina, about a dozen minifigs, a small crane on the fish belly car (to lift/lower the Cortina. Yes, I know, its a flying car!). The PF equipment is housed in the baggage/passenger combo car. That train struggled with one PF motor, so I added another PF motor with a reverse polarity switch. Runs great, and I tested it with some extra cars from other sets. Pulled 10 cars without problem on level track, did not test more than that. Edit: I should note the extra cars I ran were relatively light in weight.

I can speak for any specific issues with the Horizon Express as I don't actually own the set yet but I would hardly call the Power Functions train motors gutless. I have two in in each of my K4s Steam locomotives and just one of these engines is more than capable of pulling far more weight than what a 2 set HE should weigh. I'm wondering if there may be some issues with unintended, excessive friction at work here. Have you checked all your wheel sets to make sure they roll freely?

Cale

Those K4's are beautiful! I also love how you did your road bed and rail ties for the display track.

Edited March 2, 201410 yr by BimmerBoy

Well, I didn't try two HE's with a single motor. But I have my HE with 8 passenger cars running with two motors without any significant problems. I have slightly modded all the passenger cars with jacobs bogies though.

I've tested a bit more. Without the rear (unpowered) power car, performance is better. So the biggest factor is likely weight + the dragging bogie with technic axles (this is a tight oval of track).

Mostly I've added second motors to the other 6 or so trains we have, this results in much better performance, especially the ones with the RC train motor. As does ensuring the wheels are the latest ones with thicker O-ring. I'll add the second motor to HE.

That said the red passenger train will lift 6 coaches from stopped at a good speed with a single PF motor. But those red coaches are much lighter.

The technic-axle bogies are an interesting design choice. I get that it allows easy motorisation and matches the wheelbase of the bogie sideframes. The downside is that the wheels are connected by a solid axle, and they have thick grippy o-rings (removing them does help), and there's no conical profile. So in curves the outer wheel wants to travel faster but can't. The technic axles are not particularly friction free either. I've tried swapping them out for non-friction technic pin-with-axles, but they don't run smoothly either. Conclusion? Rebuild with those bogies with standard train axles. [/whining].

I started the topic because TLG are pushing the HE with two units and PF. Which could cause disappointment, a thing TLG usually try and avoid. I wonder if they'd bite the bullet, and recommend a second motor, with a dedicated polarity reverser plate or wire (the switch is a clunky solution)?

Edited March 2, 201410 yr by andythenorth

I don't have a dual HE... (yet.. ) but i did notice performance issues with PF, and 9V are mainly caused by the weight above the PF/9V motor, (more pressure is more grip) and the kind of track. (Flextrack has horrible grip, and is very noticable with long trains) The biggest disadvantage to the 9V system is that it's metal wheels on metal track, so they can slip very easily. But if you add enough weight, things are good. Same goes with PF, my constitution train chase has the motor under the tender, and would slip on flextrack very easy because the tender is very light. (as soon as money permits, i refuse to lay flextrack!) Either way, my fix was to add some small change (money) inside the tender, and grip is good again.

HE is a heavy train, so a dual HE should atleast need two motors. The cheapest way to reverse PF motor direction is either A: Modify the motor, or B: get a extension cord and swap the middle two wires.

I have two HE sets. I replaced the technic boogie on the unpowered engine with standard train axles. It rolls much better upgraded. The two train wheel sets and boogie plate were leftovers from converting the two passenger boogies with coupler into a jacob boogie.

The technic-axle bogies are an interesting design choice. I get that it allows easy motorisation and matches the wheelbase of the bogie sideframes. The downside is that the wheels are connected by a solid axle, and they have thick grippy o-rings (removing them does help), and there's no conical profile. So in curves the outer wheel wants to travel faster but can't. The technic axles are not particularly friction free either. I've tried swapping them out for non-friction technic pin-with-axles, but they don't run smoothly either. Conclusion? Rebuild with those bogies with standard train axles. [/whining].

I started the topic because TLG are pushing the HE with two units and PF. Which could cause disappointment, a thing TLG usually try and avoid. I wonder if they'd bite the bullet, and recommend a second motor, with a dedicated polarity reverser plate or wire (the switch is a clunky solution)?

Yes, the technic axles are a horrible drag, but no, lego has a long history of underpowered trains for AFOLs and doing a poor job of documenting it. The Super Chief started it all. Only the EN really had enough power to pull its train.

I have two HE sets. I replaced the technic boogie on the unpowered engine with standard train axles. It rolls much better upgraded. The two train wheel sets and boogie plate were leftovers from converting the two passenger boogies with coupler into a jacob boogie.

It is interesting to hear all of the problems (I have an HE, but I have not powered it, so I've not encountered them). Perhaps someone would be willing to piece together a "how to fix the HE" and submit it to Railbricks as an article??? Much as was done for the EN.

I'm running 2 HE's and I replaced the technic bogies for standard style on the dummy engine and I'm running two power trucks on the lead engine. Works well, no complaints. I'm interested in coming up with a better battery solution.

Instead of rebuilding the bogie, would it be ok to just replace the 6L technic axles with frictionless adapter pins? Or is there little friction removed?

http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=3749

Seems like a quick fix money wise instead of having to buy more train holder, wheels, black minifig head, plates, etc.. I'm planning on doing the same with the Maersk Train bogies.

GOOD old MDF, where would we be without it?

This a amazing project, very inspirational. Good luck!

I'm running 2 HE's and I replaced the technic bogies for standard style on the dummy engine and I'm running two power trucks on the lead engine. Works well, no complaints. I'm interested in coming up with a better battery solution.

I did the same but I moved the Battery box back in the car behind and made it fit the big power Functions battery box what use AA what I find alot more power at take off and longer running time the longest has been 4hrs then the AAA what only get 1hr 49mins what Is not good for shows and use more batteries but the AA I only change 2 times each day making it cheaper to run at shows.

My two are running fine with two train motors and all the rest in the front car. No slippage or anything and pulls really well.

In terms of batteries, I got 3 hours running out of a set of AAA batteries powering my Constitution (with 8 coal wagons) at a show.

Regarding polarity, I may be just being stupid here, but surely you don't need a polarity switch to run a second motor? Surely you can just flick the direction switch on the second battery box?

In terms of batteries, I got 3 hours running out of a set of AAA batteries powering my Constitution (with 8 coal wagons) at a show.

Regarding polarity, I may be just being stupid here, but surely you don't need a polarity switch to run a second motor? Surely you can just flick the direction switch on the second battery box?

Which second battery box? I run 2 motors on one battery box (AAA) and one IR receiver.

It is interesting to hear all of the problems (I have an HE, but I have not powered it, so I've not encountered them). Perhaps someone would be willing to piece together a "how to fix the HE" and submit it to Railbricks as an article??? Much as was done for the EN.

Yes please!

That would be great!

I also have 2 HE (in their boxes...), and i was thinking in powering them, but with all the diferent ideas i don't know were to start... An article in railbricks with the diferent aproaches and a lot of photos in how to fit in the components, and some ideias in how to build the Jacobs boggie would really help!!!

I did a similar mod with the Maersk Train because I preferred to push it with a PF box car from the back. I ended up changing out the Maersk bogies with the regular train axles. It's not an exact copy of the instructions on the HE because the exposed stud on the axle holder ends up hitting the end of the Maersk train base (preventing it from turning), so I had to increase the height by one stud. Otherwise works frictionless and great. It's a shame the train axles holders, wheels, and rods are so expensive, I need a lot of them now!

I don't understand needing 2 PF train motors on 2 Horizon Expresses because I ran mine for 2 days at a local show on a single power functions train motor using the AAA battery box and Sanyo Eneloop batteries. I will admit that it took some adjustments on the idle bogey (with technic axles) on the back engine to reduce the friction that would cause the PF motor to spin out excessively when starting, but for the whole weekend, I had no issues with this moderate weight train while it ran on an uneven table surface at our venue. As far as speed, that single power function bogey would power the train to a speed fast enough to derail in a turn in about three feet of acceleration, so I had no issue with that either.

In fact, the only issues that we had all weekend (at Philly BrickFest) with our PowerFunctions locomotives was the uneven tables at the venue that we built our layouts and made our poor, heavy SD44-1 Nuclear Locomotive a.k.a. "Space Train" (by Peter Morris) with two Power Function M-Motors groan as it crossed the uneven terrain of our Moon Base layout for 16 hours over 2 days. Time to build new tables like those used by PennLUG.