Governor Mister Phes Posted March 5, 2014 Author Governor Posted March 5, 2014 Thank you for the sub-theme and set suggestions but we'll determine the most appropriate sub-theme in the next stage of the project. For now just ask questions or offer your skills if you wish to participate. Is it meant to target kids? We should strike a balance and devise a sub-theme that equally appeals to child and adults. Although that may be easier said than done. I think that we need to follow some basic guidelines, if we want to present it as complete and viable proposition of the theme: Yes, there definitely will need to be guideliness to prevent self indulgence. The sub-theme will need to follow a similiar formula to the previous Pirate sub-themes but perhaps absorb some influences from contemporary LEGO themes. What you've listed is a very good starting point.
dr_spock Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 This sounds interesting. Will we require product testers?
raminator Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 I´d suggest to have a Theme with 3 factions. Blue Coats, Red Coats and Pirates. No good no evil. All on the hunt for epic gold. If you want to capture the essence of the late 80's/early 90's you should really have classic looking Minifigs in there. Something like this:
Comrade Commander Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 I support this idea! Right now my Building/imaging capabilities may not be up to par, but I am happy to help on the creative end. Be it writing or just simply brainstorming...
David Thomsen Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Wow, people really didn't understand the 'theme suggestions are later in the process' instruction... Like everyone else, I have a theme suggestion with set ideas already in mind, but I'm happy to brainstorm other people's suggestions as well. I have some basic design skills too, and I think I can put that towards designing some torsos and maybe things like flags.
Sebeus I Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 I´d suggest to have a Theme with 3 factions. Blue Coats, Red Coats and Pirates. No good no evil. All on the hunt for epic gold. If there would be three factions I think it's better to replace one coat by Islanders, say Blue coats, Pirates and Islanders, this combination offers more variety.
Admiral Blockbeard Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 At this stage I'm just seeking expressions of interest to determine the project's viability. So what are your thoughts on this project? Is it worth pursuing? Are you interested in being involved and do you have any skills to contribute? But hold the theme suggestions! Determining the sub-theme will be the next stage of the project. 4th times a charm. :p I am in Market Research so this is something I would like to get involved in. I hope I would be able to bring some good analysis and business ideas to the table. Only credentials I can offer is my Degree, Honours and part way through my Masters. AB
Kolonialbeamter Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 Wow! I love this project. Hopefully, TLC will understand how dear the community holds the pirates. Unfortunatelly, I don't consider myself capable of contributing a lot. Only thing is I know my way around in LDD, so should this be needed in the process, let me know! Regards
Governor Mister Phes Posted March 5, 2014 Author Governor Posted March 5, 2014 This sounds interesting. Will we require product testers? That would be ideal but the feasibility of packaging and shipping the larger sets may prove cost prohibitive. I am in Market Research so this is something I would like to get involved in. Market research is a valuable skill to possess. Apparently the LEGO Group uses the German market as a benchmark the success/profitability of all new LEGO products - so is there similar research we could undertake for our Pirate sub-theme? Only thing is I know my way around in LDD, so should this be needed in the process, let me know! It may be for prototypes but that will be determined later in the project.
Matthias Posted March 5, 2014 Posted March 5, 2014 I did not know that Germany is the main market research nation of lego. If it could be helpful I could show nearly complete sets or concepts in a kindergarten here in germany. My sister is a teacher here in my hometown in germany. I could ask kids in the right age in shoppingmals too.
Admiral Blockbeard Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 Market research is a valuable skill to possess. Apparently the LEGO Group uses the German market as a benchmark the success/profitability of all new LEGO products - so is there similar research we could undertake for our Pirate sub-theme? Well I am sure Lego will appreciate any form of external benchmarking beyond the forums. Issue is ethics if we do any primary research, i.e do a survey for kids etc... not sure if we need to meet any standards for Lego to use our research. (what it seems you are taking about though is sales tracking or pretest via focus groups etc) My thoughts were more along the lines of product development enabling public surveys to 1) source ideas (We are AFOL experts not current market experts) 2) test ideas and 3) refine product choices. When the development gets ready for submission I think it would be wise to also have an advertising/marketing plan set out to some extent. What is the "story" we use to sell the sets/ spark the imagination in the kids. Speaking for myself, the 80/90's pirates had an appeal that was missed in the modern line. Could just be nostalgia, or it could be more serious in that the core value of "imagination and design" were lost through the "kid"-ification of sets. Compare the brick amounts in the sets. There should also be a review on the competitive market, but that might be getting to serious?? I did not know that Germany is the main market research nation of lego. If it could be helpful I could show nearly complete sets or concepts in a kindergarten here in germany. My sister is a teacher here in my hometown in germany. I could ask kids in the right age in shoppingmals too. Research and kids is a slippery slope. You want to be very very careful. Parents do not like strangers asking kids questions without full knowledge and permission. I would suggest a parent down approach. "Do you have kids that would like Pirate Lego, big ships and adventure on the seas? We are looking into producing a new line and want to get it right! Sit down with your children and fill out the following questionnaire and have your say in what we should design for you!" -Parent is in control, you approached them not the kid, you are empowering their voice etc etc etc. Also careful in the kindergarten, don't want Billy going home and saying he took part in market research..."OMG my child is a corporate slave"... worse yet that reflecting back onto Lego. My two cents. - The alternative is to only trust ourselves. In the end however that is the unique perspective we can provide Lego. Make no mistake they listen! I went thorough the past reports we delivered. So many of the requested items have been delivered through PotC and Collectable Minifigures. This is a very interesting idea and is pretty much a dream job for me so count me in, at the least it provides me with some good experience. AB
Frank Brick Wright Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 I thinking this is a terrific idea and it really can be done with the help of this fantastic community. I'm willing to participate in this!
MiloNelsiano Posted March 6, 2014 Posted March 6, 2014 I'm not a very frequent poster here, but this topic seemed worthy of a response. First off, I can't imagine anyone being opposed to this idea, especially anyone reading a Lego Pirates Forum. Everyone here wants a new Pirates theme, and everyone wants it to be their ideal theme. However, if we want to create a successful theme, we really do need to strategically and carefully think about this. I don't have any idea what percentage of Lego sets are sold to kids, and what percentage are sold to AFOLs, but I would guess that the majority would be sold to kids (also keeping in mind that a lot of AFOLs buy sets for pieces to create MOCs, and are not always sold on the entire content of a set). That being said, I do think it would be wise to market it more toward kids than AFOLs. It may not even be entirely wise to approach this from a position of reviving the 80s/90s line of Pirates--as much as we would all love that happen. Kids today are just different from kids 20-25 years ago. I have a Psychology degree and work with kids in a residential treatment center, and have mainly worked with boys ages 8-12. Watching them play with Legos (and other toys) has given me a very interesting perspective on what kids expect out of their toys (it also got me out of a very long dark age ). Research and kids is a slippery slope. You want to be very very careful. Parents do not like strangers asking kids questions without full knowledge and permission. I would suggest a parent down approach. "Do you have kids that would like Pirate Lego, big ships and adventure on the seas? We are looking into producing a new line and want to get it right! Sit down with your children and fill out the following questionnaire and have your say in what we should design for you!" -Parent is in control, you approached them not the kid, you are empowering their voice etc etc etc. Also careful in the kindergarten, don't want Billy going home and saying he took part in market research..."OMG my child is a corporate slave"... worse yet that reflecting back onto Lego. AB I think you're absolutely right here. Surveying kids can be a very dangerous thing without parental consent. It may even be illegal in some countries. At the very least, it's considered by many to be unethical. All that being said, I think that if this were to take off, as I think it will easily get enough support to move into the planning stage, I think it would be very prudent for whoever is designing the theme to take the current successful Lego themes into very close consideration. As I said, kids today are very different from kids 20-25 years ago. This should be appealing to kids today, not kids 25 years ago. Look at the development of Chima. They started with only a few factions and a good story, and have grown to...how many factions? I have lost count. Also, Chima thas no clear-cut "good-guys and bad-guys", which, as others have mentioned, should also be the case in a Pirates theme. Anyway, I hope someone was able to follow my rambling.
2maxwell Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Kids today are just different from kids 20-25 years ago. I have a Psychology degree and work with kids in a residential treatment center, and have mainly worked with boys ages 8-12. Watching them play with Legos (and other toys) has given me a very interesting perspective on what kids expect out of their toys (it also got me out of a very long dark age ). Would you kind sharing your insights? I'm very interested.
Cwetqo Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 9 out of 10 sold LEGO sets goes in to children hands (I think that last data was around 12% for afols). MiloNelsiano is right: safest way is to design theme under the same concept as similar contemporary themes or pirates form 2009.
Governor Mister Phes Posted March 7, 2014 Author Governor Posted March 7, 2014 As I said, kids today are very different from kids 20-25 years ago. This should be appealing to kids today, not kids 25 years ago. Look at the development of Chima. They started with only a few factions and a good story, and have grown to...how many factions? This is a very good point, however Chima doesn't seem like the best example for a future Pirates sub-theme because its straying too far with is crazy vehicles and brick beasts. What we should be looking at is the modern Castle or City themes because they were prominent when the original LEGO Pirates Theme was in production but have since evolved to appease modern tastes.
just2good Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 What we should be looking at is the modern Castle or City themes because they were prominent when the original LEGO Pirates Theme was in production but have since evolved to appease modern tastes. Maybe we could have the main goal of the subtheme be that the pirates are looking for a particular treasure. A little like how the Castle 2013 theme is about gold.
Governor Mister Phes Posted March 7, 2014 Author Governor Posted March 7, 2014 My two cents. - The alternative is to only trust ourselves. In the end however that is the unique perspective we can provide Lego. Make no mistake they listen! I went thorough the past reports we delivered. So many of the requested items have been delivered through PotC and Collectable Minifigures. Yes indeed, many of our suggestions acquired during past Ambassador Projects have appeared in future sets. However, it would be nice to the push the bar bit higher and provide some market research data that supported why a entire Pirate sub-theme should be produced, rather than having the LEGO Group cherry pick our ideas for their own agenda. But ultimately whatever we come up with has to suit the LEGO Group's agenda anyway.
Bob De Quatre Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 That's a really interesting thread. I'm not active in the Pirates theme, but I love it as it brings back so many great memories. I think you should first choose factions, and see how they could be improved with the new parts designs and colors and building technics. When I saw Legonardo and Cara entry for the Pirate contest, I couldn't help but think that their fort's design may be the thing needed here. It may introduce new walls building technics to younger builders while staying pretty classic.
Hesedguy Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 In reply to the original posting, I totally believe that this is a worthwhile project. I think that it is about time for the Pirate theme to be revived since it's been about 5 years since the last push. I do have some limited time that I could put into creating prototypes when we get to that point. Most of my experience is with Classic Pirates, however I'm definitely OK with making good use of Bricklink to get a hold of the newer pieces. And I have gotten some experience in LDD as well. :-)
MiloNelsiano Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 Would you kind sharing your insights? I'm very interested. Sure. Of course I can only provide insight for the kids I've worked with, which may not reflect kids around the world entirely accurately. One thing I have noticed however, is that kids seem to really enjoy competing with each other. This should be pretty obvious, and doesn't only apply to their toys, but in most everything they do. I will only stray from Legos momentarily here, but one toy that the kids I work with really enjoy are Beyblades. They are customizable, and are used to compete against other kids' Beyblades. Lego came up with Ninjago Spinners, but I'm not sure how successful they were, as I have not seen them for a while now. Lego also made those rip-chord racers for Chima (sorry, I don't remember the actual name), and those were also very popular among the kids I work with, as they were seen as a way to compete against each other. Obviously, it would be very hard to use either of these in a Pirate theme--at least I can't think of a way it would work--but someone may be able to think outside the box and create a way for kids to compete with each other within the Pirates theme. Then again, maybe not--it may take away from the main goal of the theme. Another observation that I have made is that kids today do not seem to be as creative as they were years ago. Now, this may just apply to the type of kids that I work with, and not to the entire population, but they really do seem to need want an implication of how to play. While most kids 20 years ago with a pirate ship in front of them knew exactly what to do with it, a lot of kids today would either be uninterested or get bored very quickly without some directions of what to do, or a story they're supposed to follow. At work, The Avengers Legos were much more popular than other themes, because the kids had seen the movie, and knew how they were "supposed" to be played with. Again, this is may not be the case with all kids. Another factor that made toys more desired, as others have mentioned, is weapons or violence--it sounds bad to say, but it's true. However, since I think Pirates are inherently linked with weapons and violence, I think it's safe to say that they would be a part of the theme. This is a very good point, however Chima doesn't seem like the best example for a future Pirates sub-theme because its straying too far with is crazy vehicles and brick beasts. What we should be looking at is the modern Castle or City themes because they were prominent when the original LEGO Pirates Theme was in production but have since evolved to appease modern tastes. This is very true. While I, and probably some other AFOLs prefer the look of the classic Lego dragons, kids today hands down prefer the dragons in the new Castle line. The Pirates theme would need a similar revamp to appeal to kids. Maybe we could have the main goal of the subtheme be that the pirates are looking for a particular treasure. A little like how the Castle 2013 theme is about gold. This is almost exactly what I think would be the most appealing to kids, but we are not to this stage yet.
Cara Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 A lot of adults think about this theme with nostalgia but as much as I love it, I don't think children have that much affinity for it currently. Whatever gets brainstormed and chosen I think you will have to sell them that connection that makes them see themselves in the pirate universe for them to become invested in this theme.
Carousel Posted March 7, 2014 Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) I can lend my services, probably in the writing and graphic design departments. I can do photoshop for chocolates. I think we need a concise project list of things we really want in our proposed Pirate theme. Feel very free to add your own points and edit mine: Sets that hold unanimous appeal to both adults and children. Pack a generous amount of nostalgia & detail into these sets, yet don't skimp on the kid's features, for they are what ensures the product's success. Factions that are largely autonomous from the dreary stereotypes of good/evil (much like Chima, minus the disgustingness). Interesting combinations of factions (i.e. Pirates, Islanders, Bluecoats). Tasteful box art with a definite feel of the original Pirates theme that also has a 'wow' and 'cool' factor for the children. Have similar set aesthetics as the original Pirates, yes, but don't be entirely limited to such. I think wandering off the beaten track is called for occasionally. Have a polished, balanced and engaging narrative. Well devised, with good value sets throughout the different price tiers. I'm thinking a merchant/civilian figure or two in there somewhere amirite. We can have as many wowzer cool beans ideas as we want, but it has to ultimately appeal to the kids. That's what makes or breaks this idea. Edited March 7, 2014 by Carousel
Governor Mister Phes Posted March 7, 2014 Author Governor Posted March 7, 2014 A lot of adults think about this theme with nostalgia but as much as I love it, I don't think children have that much affinity for it currently. Based on what evidence? The Pirate sets released 4-5 years ago sold very well apparently so is there any particular reason they would not do so currently? I think we need a concise project list of things we really want in our proposed Pirate theme. Feel very free to add your own points and edit mine:[...]We can have as many wowzer cool beans ideas as we want, but it has to ultimately appeal to the kids. That's what makes or breaks this idea. These are very good points! I liken it to making an animated feature like Shrek - ultimately it's a film aimed at the children's market but there's enough mature subtleties to captivate an adult audience.
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