Faefrost Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 In addition to any other reason you can come up with, the train was too big for an Ideas set. Nah! More and more I think raw size has less to do with it than predictable and solid market data. They will set the price to be the best point based on how solid and predictable the audience is. So some types of large sets will have a better time in review than others. Like I talked about over in the Town forums, Modular Buildings and Technic will probably have little problem justifying a $200 2000+ piece set. Lego knows precisely how well those will sell and to who. They have even done limited edition fan designed sets under both. Trains are dancing on this border. I think Ideas would have no issue with a $100-$180 train set. That is a predictable market. I just don't think the BttF train is a good enough fit for such a set. Think of it this way, the DeLorean was the star of all 3 movies. It was the centerpiece. The most recognizable thing from the series. As soon as you lay eyes on it you can hear the music in your head. The Jules Verne train is a lot less familiar. It was only on screen for a few seconds at the very end of the third movie. There was only one real beauty shot of it. And it was kind of busy and hard to wrap your head around. It's a great Hollywood moment, just not one that tugs at the broader fan base the way the DeLorean does. Heck I think a fully motorized 2-6-0 pushing a DeLorean around a loop of track to stage the movies climax would make a better set (although rather close to the LR set. ) Quote
jonwil Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 Like I talked about over in the Town forums, Modular Buildings and Technic will probably have little problem justifying a $200 2000+ piece set. Lego knows precisely how well those will sell and to who. How does that fit with what LEGO did with the Land Rover set? Any thoughts on why that set didn't make it given the statement that big technic sets sell? Quote
Borador Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 I sat and thought through the TBBT set a little more, and I think I have worked out why it surprised us and passed. What the key benefit to the set is. It's synergistic marketing. Perfect product placement. BBT's use of Lego sets and the concept of AFOL's in the show is much to good an opportunity for Lego not to feed it a bit if you will. Creating a Lego set about the show, that shows off Lego fans and normalizes the product as a somewhat nerdy but acceptable hobby is better than any ad campaign they could ever dream up. By making the set they both draw attention to the show and themselves gain more attention from the show. It is unbelievably cost effective mass marketing, and extremely effective on many levels. And even better, the fans asked for it. Heck part of the reason for them springing for 2 sets in one review / manufacturing period could be that they are quietly getting the Marketing department to kick in. It will not even matter how the set sells. It makes up its costs in other ways. From a business sense it is strikingly brilliant, and my hat is off to them. Ah! Well played LEGO, well played indeed. I still think it's a bit of a sketchy thing to do though, and it does compromise their values a bit, but that is, frankly, brilliant. They've really got a good marketing department, don't they? Quote
Faefrost Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 How does that fit with what LEGO did with the Land Rover set? Any thoughts on why that set didn't make it given the statement that big technic sets sell? They kept that set in review for 2 extra periods. The impression I got was there were some technical issues. The Landrover had an extremely complex transmission and gearing that was probably pushing things a bit. And the set was probably a bit too large. We can probably get a $200 technic set past them. Something in the realm of 41999. But the Landrover was easily 2+ x that size. It just may not have been deliverable. I took the extended review to indicate that they did not lightly fail or dismiss it, but rather sought to find a viable working product design and could not while staying true to the proposed project. Ah! Well played LEGO, well played indeed. I still think it's a bit of a sketchy thing to do though, and it does compromise their values a bit, but that is, frankly, brilliant. They've really got a good marketing department, don't they? I think this one is just pure luck that landed on them and they were bright enough to grab it. Doing it themselves would have been sketchy. But it's a set the fans designed and voted for. Cud is to the marketing people who stepped up and said "don't ask questions Just Make It!" Quote
Blondie-Wan Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 The Ideas team has posted an update: The Third 2014 LEGO Review deadline passed this morning at 12:00 a.m. GMT, ushering in nine new qualified projects for us to evaluate as possible future LEGO Ideas sets; that's our largest qualifying period to date! As we enter 2015, here are the qualified projects in the Third 2014 LEGO Review period: Avengers Helicarrier Labyrinth Marble Maze F7A Hornet The Goonies 30th Anniversary - The Inferno The Natural History Museum - Creator Expert Lord of the Rings Set: Minas Tirith Jurassic Park Piano Flying Dutchman With the eight projects from the previous batch plus the two Doctor Who ones from the otherwise-finalized batch before that, there are now 19 projects officially under review. Start your speculation! Quote
dvsntt Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 I cannot logon to the new Cuusoo site using my login credentials? Do I need to create a new account, and what happens to my projects that were already there? Quote
fred67 Posted January 5, 2015 Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) The Hellcarier is amazing, but just too damn big for Ideas. The Marble Maze is a nice concept, but I wouldn't get one. Hornet = Military = iffy, although it's quite nice... I would probably buy one or two. Goonies? I was never a big fan, although naming the fat kid "Chunk" was genius. Natural History Museum... this is very interesting. I supported that one, and I really like it, but I just don't see something this big - and that would compete with Modulars, being approved. Great building, though. Minas Tirith... while I love LOTR, and while a great set, I just don't see them approving something with an already in-use license. I don't think you'll ever see any of the Star Wars ideas for the same reasons. It's also big... let's face it, in order to do Minas Tirith it HAS to be enormous... this set is pretty good, but in going for an economy of pieces (it seems), it falls short of what it would take to do a great Minas Tirith... but the modularity of it seems like it would be easy to expand on. Interesting, but I'm thinking it just won't get picked because of the existing license. I love the Jurassic Park set, and supported it, but given the new license, I'm not holding my breath this will be selected. If I'm right about them not choosing things from licenses currently in production, I don't think we'll see this one being chosen. Out of all the sets, I'm hope I'm wrong about this one the most. I would buy this in an instant. The piano is awesome, but we've seen a lot of awesome pianos from the community, and I think this is a bit too small. At the same time, a lot of common and easily available pieces; a lot of pieces means they can ask a moderately high price for this, but that they are small pieces (mainly), they'll get a nice profit margin on this set if they were to release it. Interesting. The Flying Dutchman is another awesome, awesome, awesome ship; POTC is a dead-in-the-water license (no pun intended), so that they release something from Ideas for that license isn't out of the question... the only problem is, again, it's just too big and too many pieces. Looks like the number of pieces would eclipse even the flagship 10210... more than twice as many... and that was $180 set when it was released, probably $200 or $220 if released now. So... my guesses (not my choices) as to what stands a chance... Goonies... they've had a huge amount of success on these "nostalgic" movies, if they can get permission, it seems like a likely choice. It's a big ship, so a lot of pieces, but nothing on the order of the Flying Dutchman; it's seems more like $100 set than the $500 that the Dutchman would be. The Piano stands a chance. If the birds can win (and I like the birds), then the piano can win. The Marble Maze... I just don't think it's a great set. It's a great concept. But it got 10k votes, and I think it's more like what TLG is looking for in Ideas. The Museum is interesting; I'd put the Museum and Jurassic Park sets as unlikely possibilities. So... those are my guesses. Edited January 5, 2015 by fred67 Quote
just2good Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 The Ideas team has posted an update: Avengers Helicarrier Labyrinth Marble Maze F7A Hornet The Goonies 30th Anniversary - The Inferno The Natural History Museum - Creator Expert Lord of the Rings Set: Minas Tirith Jurassic Park Piano Flying Dutchman With the eight projects from the previous batch plus the two Doctor Who ones from the otherwise-finalized batch before that, there are now 19 projects officially under review. Start your speculation! Interesting! I'll post my thoughts. Avengers Helicarrier - Not gonna pass, LEGO has a D2C for this coming out in a month. Labyrinth Marble Maze - Amazing project, and it's a little like the Birds project where it's different from many other LEGO set's building styles, but I think that it will pass for the same reason as the Birds project did. F7A Hornet - Says it's based on an upcoming game. I don't think LEGO would want to do a set on a future property so early, just in case the property turns out that it won't fit their brand. The Goonies 30th Anniversary - The Inferno - It's possible. Goonies is an 80's classic PG film on the level of Ghostbusters and Back to the Future, and more tame than the first three Jurassic Park films, in my opinion. The Natural History Museum - Creator Expert - Not sure if LEGO wants to do a set of this size, judging by some past decisions. Lord of the Rings Set: Minas Tirith - Again, not sure LEGO will do a set of that size, plus they'll probably have to pay some fees to extend the contract for LEGO Middle Earth. Dunno. Jurassic Park - Possible, as it seems like LEGO doesn't have any Jurassic Park sets or D2C Jurassic Park sets planned for 2015. Only the Jurassic World stuff. Might be a nice set to have a fast release June 1st, kinda like Ghostbusters. Piano - I think this one will pass. Similar market appeal to the Birds/Exosuit crowd. Flying Dutchman - Too big and complex that LEGO will probably see this as a risky move to make. Don't think so. Quote
Faefrost Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) The Ideas team has posted an update: Avengers Helicarrier Labyrinth Marble Maze F7A Hornet The Goonies 30th Anniversary - The Inferno The Natural History Museum - Creator Expert Lord of the Rings Set: Minas Tirith Jurassic Park Piano Flying Dutchman With the eight projects from the previous batch plus the two Doctor Who ones from the otherwise-finalized batch before that, there are now 19 projects officially under review. Start your speculation! Well we know two of the projects are DOA because TLG already has similar in production from the internal licensing groups. The Helicarrier and the Jurrasic Park set. So that prunes the list a bit. Of the rest a number of large movie focused sets. 2 Pirate Ships and a Castle as it were. A large modular building, the long watched Marble Maze and the Piano. Of those I think Piano and Marble Maze are safe bets. Educational, simple and classic. I think the Flying Dutchman will not pass. Too large and complex mixed with a weird point in the license. When Lego does a huge Ideas set it will not be on a license that struggled to sell its large ships. I don't think Goonies will pass either. While a fondly remembered nostalgic property it lacks the shear gravitas of Ghostbusters or BttF. Minas Tirith and the Museum are the wild cards. Unlikely, but if Lego will take a long shot it might be on one of those two. Minas Tirith will depend on some very complex licensing issues, not to mention Lego's own internal business case for ending the line. But they do have very good relations with WB, so it just might happen. For the Museum, if Lego is going to bet on a large Ideas set, the most likely candidate will be a nice Modular Building. They have insanely good data on their modular line. They not only know how many they can sell, but precisely who buys them down to our street addresses. Plus their previous most succesful fan designed set was in this style or theme. I don't think either Minas Tirith or the Museum will see production, but you never know. Edited January 6, 2015 by Faefrost Quote
Robert8 Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 (edited) I'm going to use a 0-10 scale. 0: No way 10: Will pass Avengers Helicarrier: 0. Way too big. Labyrinth Marble Maze: 9. Pretty neat and unique idea. F7A Hornet: 5. Looks cool but there could be some license issues. The Goonies 30th Anniversary - The Inferno: 2. Kinda big . There is a LEGO Pirates line coming this year. The Natural History Museum - Creator Expert: 3. Kinda big but maybe a smaller redesign. Besides, there is already a LEGO Creator theme. LEGO Ideas is about new and unique sets. Lord of the Rings Set: Minas Tirith: 0. Way too big. And I think we are done the LEGO LOTR. Jurassic Park: 9. There are Jurassic World sets coming soon, this could be a nice complement. Maybe just the car and the T-Rex Piano: 10. Right size. New and original concept, and that's what LEGO Ideas is about. Flying Dutchman: 0. Way too big. About the Doctor Who sets: 8. I think there could be some license issues with these. But if they didn't reject them in the last review, there must be a good reason. Edited January 6, 2015 by Robert8 Quote
Faefrost Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 Minas Tirith... while I love LOTR, and while a great set, I just don't see them approving something with an already in-use license. I don't think you'll ever see any of the Star Wars ideas for the same reasons. It's also big... let's face it, in order to do Minas Tirith it HAS to be enormous... this set is pretty good, but in going for an economy of pieces (it seems), it falls short of what it would take to do a great Minas Tirith... but the modularity of it seems like it would be easy to expand on. Interesting, but I'm thinking it just won't get picked because of the existing license. I love the Jurassic Park set, and supported it, but given the new license, I'm not holding my breath this will be selected. If I'm right about them not choosing things from licenses currently in production, I don't think we'll see this one being chosen. Out of all the sets, I'm hope I'm wrong about this one the most. I would buy this in an instant. I suspect that anything involving pre-existing licenses is nowhere near as cut and dry as they will simply never do something from an existing license. I think GlenBricker is overstating things just a hair with his concept of inevitable discovery. But as TLG themselves say, pre-existing licenses are vastly more complicated than simply getting a new license for an Ideas set. And we keep for some reason assuming that the decisions regarding the Ideas sets is wholly Lego's to make. The key thing is any licensor with a pre-existing arrangement with TLG will have absolute veto power. Their sets get made by the people and the team they wish, and present the subjects that they agree with. In most cases the licensors will not allow a third party free agent to be involved. Certainly not with any sort of design or product "royalty". But you never know. The folks at Warner Brothers may fall in love with that Minas Tirith, or someone from the studio may think the JP set would compliment the new stuff. Stranger things have happened. But by far the most common default will be one of IP protection. The best example I can think of is the Star Wars license. The likely cut point for what will or will not pass as an Ideas set is probably "has it appeared on screen?" Is the project an ILM design from the movies? If yes, then no it will not pass. But something from an obscure corner of the SW universe, such as a novel, video game, or long forgotten TV show might pass. A UCS set of Chewbacca's house and family from the Star Wars Holiday Special has a greater chance of passing than a UCS Luke's Landspeeder. Because the Landspeeder is already a likely and expected subject. The problem of course is the proposed set must skim a fine line between being already enshrined on the to do list, and being popular enough that people will buy it. Quote
Meiko Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 I cannot logon to the new Cuusoo site using my login credentials? Do I need to create a new account, and what happens to my projects that were already there? You'll need a LEGO ID which you can create on LEGO.com or use an existing one. I remember other users having issues logging in but I can't remember all the steps to get an account working again. I'd suggest you contact LEGO Customer Service at http://service.lego.com/en-us/ Quote
Super Goblin Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 How do we know that the Helicarrier coming out isn't an Ideas set? Quote
TheLegoExperience Posted January 6, 2015 Posted January 6, 2015 How do we know that the Helicarrier coming out isn't an Ideas set? It takes months to design something like this, way before it was approved. Also, we know the designer, and it's a designer from LEGO and not the one who made the project. Quote
Super Goblin Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 It takes months to design something like this, way before it was approved. Also, we know the designer, and it's a designer from LEGO and not the one who made the project. All Ideas sets have a Lego designer that work on the sets with the original creator. Maybe they had a feeling this was going to get the votes and went ahead and started the process. Quote
MrManiac Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 All Ideas sets have a Lego designer that work on the sets with the original creator. Maybe they had a feeling this was going to get the votes and went ahead and started the process. They might have done that. I remember them doing something kind of similar for the Firefly sets (the TV show, not the Batman villain), and preemptively talking with legal about it because they knew the sets would be popular enough to get fully supported. Or something like that. Quote
BirdOPrey5 Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 The Piano looks great but there is no chance I would ever buy one. Of the list the only ones I might ever buy would be the marble maze, Jurassic Park, and my favorite, the Natural History Museum which I would absolutely buy. Quote
Faefrost Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 How do we know that the Helicarrier coming out isn't an Ideas set? All Ideas sets have a Lego designer that work on the sets with the original creator. Maybe they had a feeling this was going to get the votes and went ahead and started the process. While not completely impossible it is extremely unlikely. A licensed set of that scale and complexity takes almost 2 years to bring to retail. The glimpse we got of Marcos in the designer title was of a polished product. They never EVER(!) would have allowed images of an ideas project to leak out that had not even formally entered the review period. They may pre emptively discuss and examine business case and brand fit issues of looming projects. They would not begin preliminary design work, and they absolutely positively would never show images or photography of any such preliminary work in the unlikely event that they were to pursue it. Lego generally has very very strong process and information control. They maintain good predictable business practices. That image in the Lego Designer intro might have been an accidental leak, but it was a minor leak at best spoiling a few weeks. Rumor is the product hits shelves in March. There is no way this is in any way connected to Ideas. Given how Lego likes to keep their Marvel and DC offerings rather balanced chances are this started development around or partway into the development of the Tumbler to maintain said balance. Quote
BirdOPrey5 Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Nothing would prevent LEGO from talking to the original designer before it hit 10,000 supporters and having them sign some sort of non-disclosure-agreement not to talk about it until after it is officially announced. LEGO is free to ignore the 10,000 vote requirement if they wanted. LEGO may even have made a private agreement and the set will not be under the Ideas label. Unlikely, but not impossible. Quote
Faefrost Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Nothing would prevent LEGO from talking to the original designer before it hit 10,000 supporters and having them sign some sort of non-disclosure-agreement not to talk about it until after it is officially announced. LEGO is free to ignore the 10,000 vote requirement if they wanted. LEGO may even have made a private agreement and the set will not be under the Ideas label. Unlikely, but not impossible. And absolutely nothing would give them cause to have any such conversation. Lego had the license and the clear expectation to do the Helicarrier with Marvel Disney. Someone stacking 40,000 bricks in LDD has no relationship or impact on that. It is unlikely they would have a side conversation do such a thing as cut a side deal as it diminishes the rules and the market draw of their Ideas project and products. If they felt it was appropriate to do they would have done so with several prior creators with closer relations to TLG and a greater body of work, such as Marshall Banana. The moment we had a hint that there was a large UCS Batman Tumbler in the works is the moment we knew that it was likly TLG had a corresponding Marvel set in planning and design stages. Knowing the MCU, and knowing the general tendencies of the UCS design capabilities made some version of Helicarrier the likely candidate as Marvel does not have a vehicle heavy "Batman" type character. The UCS Helicarrier entered into the planning and design stages probably 18 months ago, given its size, complexity (based on the brief partial glimpse we have seen) and how much feedback and approval would be needed from Marvel. Also remember that office politics does play a role. While the various Lego design teams will fall all over themselves in admiration of a well presented well designed Ideas project that is something striking and different, they will not really be seeking to borrow or poach anything from Ideas that already falls clearly within their direct department mandate and personal to do lists. Quote
Sebeus I Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I'm excited about this review (obviously ). I don't know much about license mechanics but I'm optimistic. Quote
K4kitty Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 Only one I would buy would be the museum. The piano does not appeal at all. Quote
Robert8 Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 2 more projects have achieved the 10000 supporters: The Discworld: https://ideas.lego.com/projects/36302 Science Adventures: https://ideas.lego.com/projects/83039 IMO, The Discworld won't happen. Quote
TheLegoExperience Posted January 10, 2015 Posted January 10, 2015 2 more projects have achieved the 10000 supporters: The Discworld: https://ideas.lego.com/projects/36302 Science Adventures: https://ideas.lego.com/projects/83039 IMO, The Discworld won't happen. I like Science Adventures, it's nicely designed. I like the creators last set, too, but since this one isn't getting world-wide news coverage, it has more of a chance to stay on shelves. Quote
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