LEGO Ideas Discussion

[BirdOPrey5]

I would have expected the ghost busters hq to sell more than the science museum but who knows...

[Sven F]

Next review seemed pretty obvious it's either going to be the maze or the piano, but now I'm not so sure. The maze game is maybe the most finished looking product and very original idea, but seems like LEGO gave up on board games and this is kind of similar, It's the type of thing a lot of people like, but don't actually buy. I would probably find it interesting, but my novelty attention would die in about 5-10 minutes, and on the shelf it goes.

The piano seems like a good AFOL display model, but only as either a theme like architecture or a set of a couple instruments like the birds set. Just the piano on it's own, as a one time thing, don't think so.

The rest of the stuff I find highly unlikely, except maybe the museum. IMO It's got a couple of things going wrong for it though, apart from the obvious large parts count and size, I think it needs more color, it's too monotone in appearance, if you look at all the existing modulars, they all have a dominant color, but still a good balance that makes it look a bit more like LEGO, and less like a sculpture. And the third minor thing; what's with the "creator expert" in the title? Ideas is a theme on it's own.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Sven F

[Dorayaki]

Nothing to be "sorry" about to WALL*E fans; those other movies did just come out this year (by "Sleeping Beauty" you're talking about Maleficent, right?). However, it's not just Disney's decision; LEGO itself simply can't make a whole new theme for every movie that comes out. They just don't have the production capacity.

I don't know, either. LEGO can still come up with some exclusive license each year so the capacity for which theme can't be predicted, actually.

Lego has a Sleeping Beauty set out now, so I am not sure what you are asking for? Set 41060

Lego is very very conservative with what they license. They will only rarely license IP that does not have an established track record in some form. And this goes up to including some big name stuff. On the rare occasions that they violate this one suspects there is some back end deal, and they often get burned. (note The Lone Ranger)

Well, like the Frozen castle case: not in theatrical time and not a complete wave.

My assumption is that LEGO's cooperation with Disney is not as strong as it was this year. Sleeping Beauty (Maleficent) is already a part of Disney Princess, while BH6 also associates with Marvel, which means that both are very competent potential LEGO licenses. Like you said, LR's case might be one of the reasons that LEGO became more cautious. Based on the fact LEGO and Disney can't even reach the consensus of adevertising the more recent films, I can hardly imagine that Wall*E would pass the marketing chekbox.

What is done is done, Wall*E is a mustbuy for me. Among all earlier Disney/Pixar films, I also believe that Incrediles is a good license despite no sequel announced.

The piano seems like a good AFOL display model, but only as either a theme like architecture or a set of a couple instruments like the birds set. Just the piano on it's own, as a one time thing, don't think so.

Well, there are many different scales of LEGO sets. The amount of pieces of Piano might be even more than the smallest City car, so who knows?

As others mentioned, a piano would appear in the upcoming Heartlake set. I wish that Ideas could leave the project room for better improvement to be more like an independent Creator set. I expect to see its playability with figures so that children can be interested.

Hidaka's pipe organ looks rather something we've never seen in LEGO history. I wish that passes too though the votes are still growing.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Dorayaki

[Sarah]

I would have expected the ghost busters hq to sell more than the science museum but who knows...

Not me. I'm totally uninterested in the Ghostbusters HQ but am interested in the science museum (though I fear it will be too expensive)

[Blondie-Wan]

What is done is done, Wall*E is a mustbuy for me. Among all earlier Disney/Pixar films, I also believe that Incrediles is a good license despite no sequel announced.

Actually, it was revealed last year that an Incredibles sequel is indeed happening, and Brad Bird is writing it.

[JGW3000]

One aspect that may be being overlooked in these discussions is that projects submitted to IDEAS are just concepts, not finished sets. Which means that LEGO could take any of these projects and decide to build something larger, smaller, or even take the concept off on a tangent. Many of the earlier submissions had this intent - they may have been just pictures or sketches. Not sure where the thought came from that a close-to-production-intent concept needed to be submitted and that the final set would closely reproduce the submission. Although this has happened, as in the ExoSuit and Mars Rover, and likely Wall-E will be very close to the submission. That said, submitting a well-though-out project that shows its buildability and play features, as appropriate, will be more likely to garner the necessary votes.

Which means, the piano, if selected, could be produced as a much larger set, come with other musical instruments (an ensemble of some sort would be neat), etc... of the science museum be scaled down to a better part count/price target. The upcoming Dr. Who set certainly will be different from the IDEA's submission. How much we will have to wait and see.

Edited February 6, 2015 by JGW3000

[Faefrost]

I don't know, either. LEGO can still come up with some exclusive license each year so the capacity for which theme can't be predicted, actually.

Well, like the Frozen castle case: not in theatrical time and not a complete wave.

My assumption is that LEGO's cooperation with Disney is not as strong as it was this year. Sleeping Beauty (Maleficent) is already a part of Disney Princess, while BH6 also associates with Marvel, which means that both are very competent potential LEGO licenses. Like you said, LR's case might be one of the reasons that LEGO became more cautious. Based on the fact LEGO and Disney can't even reach the consensus of adevertising the more recent films, I can hardly imagine that Wall*E would pass the marketing chekbox.

Lego has not become more cautious. They have always been very cautious with licenses. They are the big dog in the room and can afford to pick and choose the best of the best. In one way that is reflected is they generally stear clear of untried IP's unless it has some very specific synergy. They prefer to license established franchises. So you will not typically see a Lego set until there are 1or 2 movies already out. There are exceptions. LR had a few things going for it. It was marketed as a western PotC and gave them an excuse for doing straight up western subjects. But it still was not a rousing success. Whereas they skipped Thor 2 sets because Thor 1 did poorly in the toy aisle. They have no problem doing Iron Man sets because IM is now a merchandise juggernaut alongside Batman and Spiderman. With Captain America not far behind. Right now the only real untried IP's that they did sets for in recent memory was GotG, for which "Marvel movie that's Star Wars meets the Avengers" is about as safe a bet in their territory as you can get.

And not having as good of ties with Disney? Marvel = Disney. Star Wars = Disney. They are broadening their Minidoll Princess line. Their Duplo Princess line is roaring and they just added Spiderman to Duplo. I suspect the lack of a Frozen specific line is more based on research into how that audience plays and buys. The girls want Elsa + Jasmine + Aurora + Ariel etc. not so much specific scenes from the movie like Sven and the magical troll rocks

[Faefrost]

One aspect that may be being overlooked in these discussions is that projects submitted to IDEAS are just concepts, not finished sets. Which means that LEGO could take any of these projects and decide to build something larger, smaller, or even take the concept off on a tangent. Many of the earlier submissions had this intent - they may have been just pictures or sketches. Not sure where the thought came from that a close-to-production-intent concept needed to be submitted and that the final set would closely reproduce the submission. Although this has happened, as in the ExoSuit and Mars Rover, and likely Wall-E will be very close to the submission. That said, submitting a well-though-out project that shows its buildability and play features, as appropriate, will be more likely to garner the necessary votes.

Which means, the piano, if selected, could be produced as a much larger set, come with other musical instruments (an ensemble of some sort would be neat), etc... of the science museum be scaled down to a better part count/price target. The upcoming Dr. Who set certainly will be different from the IDEA's submission. How much we will have to wait and see.

The problem with that is Ideas is still essentially crowd sourcing. The fans are voting on what is basically the presented idea. While Lego will scale up or down a bit to turn it into a marketable production set there are some fairly tight limits to that. One of the questions they ask at review is "is this still the set they voted on?" The majority of Lego's design changes tend to be more structural to better convert it to a build able set using currently available parts inventory as much as possible. So the size will grow or shrink some, but not too far.

Next review seemed pretty obvious it's either going to be the maze or the piano, but now I'm not so sure. The maze game is maybe the most finished looking product and very original idea, but seems like LEGO gave up on board games and this is kind of similar, It's the type of thing a lot of people like, but don't actually buy. I would probably find it interesting, but my novelty attention would die in about 5-10 minutes, and on the shelf it goes.

The piano seems like a good AFOL display model, but only as either a theme like architecture or a set of a couple instruments like the birds set. Just the piano on it's own, as a one time thing, don't think so.

The rest of the stuff I find highly unlikely, except maybe the museum. IMO It's got a couple of things going wrong for it though, apart from the obvious large parts count and size, I think it needs more color, it's too monotone in appearance, if you look at all the existing modulars, they all have a dominant color, but still a good balance that makes it look a bit more like LEGO, and less like a sculpture. And the third minor thing; what's with the "creator expert" in the title? Ideas is a theme on it's own.

Now color tweaking the TLG designers would do. Just look at the Exo Suit. They would likely do a bit of subtle color balancing if they selected the museum.

I think the Marble Maze is something that the designers have liked for a long time, but as you say, where is the market for it exactly? It's a hard one to predict.

If they do the Piano they would probably turn it into a small minifig vignette, with the creators permission.

I don't think there is anything else in that review period that has much chance. Maybe a real Hail Mary long shot for the Minas Tirith set, but doubtful.

[jonwil]

One option for the Piano idea could be to combine the Grand Piano idea with the similar Upright Piano idea from the same guy and produce an x-in-one set that produces 3 or 4 different styles of Piano from the same set of parts. More play value and more encouragement to buy multiples (so you can make one into the grand, one into the baby grand, one into the upright etc)

[Blondie-Wan]

One option for the Piano idea could be to combine the Grand Piano idea with the similar Upright Piano idea from the same guy and produce an x-in-one set that produces 3 or 4 different styles of Piano from the same set of parts. More play value and more encouragement to buy multiples (so you can make one into the grand, one into the baby grand, one into the upright etc)

Ooh, that's an excellent idea. I hope someone passes it on to the designer and the Ideas team before the review is over, or at least before the design phase is over if the Piano is approved.

[LegoFjotten]

Personally I would love to see some huge sets coming out of Ideas, but I don't think it's gonna happen. I don't think the museum stands a chance, but I would be pleasantly surprised if it did.

At this point I think Ideas should just change their rules to set an approx 1000 piece limit on entries. They don't need suggestions on what the next modular should be, or which SW (or other) huge UCS set to make. Don't get me wrong, I think the Sandcrawler, AT-AT and HeliCarrier are fantastic MOC's which I would love to have on display, I just can't picture LEGO producing an ideas set which is "Build a huge version of xxx", where xxx i something they already made a set out of.

I also think that we as a LEGO community should try to shake the "That is a cool MOC, you should put it on Ideas" notion that pops up all the time. Sometimes a great MOC is just a great MOC, and not a great idea for Ideas.

(And I guess this post will be misinterpreted as an attack on a lot of suggestions on Ideas, so I'll go ahead and put my flame suit on in advance. )

[jonwil]

I need to get off my bum and work up my 5-in-1 6-wide City cars idea and get it submitted.

Its a great project for Ideas, its not too big and you can make 5 different car designs from the same set of parts so its got that factor to get you to buy multiples...

[Dorayaki]

And not having as good of ties with Disney? Marvel = Disney. Star Wars = Disney. They are broadening their Minidoll Princess line. Their Duplo Princess line is roaring and they just added Spiderman to Duplo. I suspect the lack of a Frozen specific line is more based on research into how that audience plays and buys. The girls want Elsa + Jasmine + Aurora + Ariel etc. not so much specific scenes from the movie like Sven and the magical troll rocks

I personally don't regard SW and Marvel as Disney's cooperation in any case, because this might be unfair to fans of mainstream Disney films. BH6 is branded as a cooperation of Disney and Marvel so it could be counted a different case.

Not to be offtopic or discuss LEGO's decision on their regular licenses, in this topic, my point is that Wall*E may not be as profitable as these recent films, so the decision of LEGO and Disney would be strange. Of course, we may only compare all existed Ideas projects and currently there are no Maleficent or BH6 projects competing, so the comparison wouldn't be fair and accurate.

One option for the Piano idea could be to combine the Grand Piano idea with the similar Upright Piano idea from the same guy and produce an x-in-one set that produces 3 or 4 different styles of Piano from the same set of parts. More play value and more encouragement to buy multiples (so you can make one into the grand, one into the baby grand, one into the upright etc)

The problem is that Ideas products need to base on the content of the original projects. Research Institute and Birds, which are combined trio sets, did include different models in their original article. Even if any of the first models are rejected, they can come up with plan B's immediately. Although Hidaka made two other different pianos, they belong to seperate projects so I think this is an obstacle. Edited February 7, 2015 by Dorayaki

[Blondie-Wan]

The problem is that Ideas products need to base on the content of the original projects. Research Institute and Birds, which are combined trio sets, did include different models in their original article. Even if any of the first models are rejected, they can come up with plan B's immediately. Although Hidaka made two other different pianos, they belong to seperate projects so I think this is an obstacle.

Normally, yes, but if the change is a matter of simply adding features, playability, etc. without adding much to the piece count / size / price, then it shouldn't be a problem. Think about the additions to the Exo-Suit - a second classic Spaceperson, a robo-turtle, the canisters, etc., all of which added to the value of the set, but without detracting from what had originally been voted for, or substantially increasing the cost beyond what people thought it would or should be. The piano could probably easily be designed like a Creator set, with indtructions for multiple different versions of a piano to be built from the same set of parts. It would add more play / display value to the set without adding much to its cost, and without detracting from the original proposal.

[ummester]

I think BrickLinks MOC shop will eventually gather wider interest than Ideas, as the platform is more open.

Part availability is the MOC shops Achilles heal, though - both in being limited to what is currently available and limited by store availability. Theoretically, however, so long as you are willing to invest in the stock of parts, you can effectively package and sell your own LEGO sets (on any Idea, including franchises not already marketed by LEGO), with Bricklink charging a relatively small amount to host it.

Of course, if it does take off, Bricklink will no doubt charge more :D

[Blondie-Wan]

I think BrickLinks MOC shop will eventually gather wider interest than Ideas, as the platform is more open.

They're completely different things. Bricklink isn't even principally intend as a means to sell models, just parts, while Ideas is about pitching ideas to the LEGO Company itself as things they might produce as real, honest-to-goodness commercial sets. They serve different purposes.

[ummester]

They're completely different things. Bricklink isn't even principally intend as a means to sell models, just parts, while Ideas is about pitching ideas to the LEGO Company itself as things they might produce as real, honest-to-goodness commercial sets. They serve different purposes.

The MOC shop is intended to sell sets, not parts.

Once upon a time LEGO sold (all available) parts - once upon a time you could order all the parts from an LDD design in a single hit.

I don't think the things are as dissimilar as what you suggest. LEGO is a toy made of parts that can be combined. Some people prefer to get their parts as part of a set, some people like to design entirely for themselves (be they children or adults). Both LEGO (limited now) and Bricklink offer a parts service. Both LEGO and Bricklink now offer an 'new set' ideas platform. The only real difference is one market place is entirely secondary to the other and one ideas platform is constrained by a large companies marketing profile, whilst the other is constrained by part availability in the secondary marketplace.

I think the concept of an honest to goodness commercial set is corrupted by the word commercial, which is what hinders the LEGO ideas platform and why I suggest the MOC shop is more open - the commercial boundaries are entirely different.

Say everyone would love a bunch of taxis to add to their cities, or a bunch of tanker cars to add to their trains - LEGO Ideas will likely not publish them as Ideas sets, rather it will incorporate them into next years city or train lines. The MOC shop allows sale of these types of items outside of LEGOs marketing strategy, so if you want a bunch of taxis but don't like designing, you can order them via Bricklink without having to wait for TLG to include them in the line for that year.

Edited February 8, 2015 by ummester

[BrickBob Studpants]

There's one major (and I do mean major) advantage that Ideas has over the BL MOC shop, and that's exclusive parts (i.e. existing parts in new colors or with new printing) Generally speaking, Ideas has a far broader audience: whereas the BL shop targets mainly MOCcers, Ideas intends to serve collectors, MOCcers (thanks to said new parts), regular geeks (i.e. non-AFOL ones) and pretty much the general public since the sets are sold in regular stores. I think of the MOC shop more as a complementary service rather than competition

[jonwil]

Ideas is responsible for a number of awesome parts we wouldn't have otherwise gotten like the green classic space astronaut in the Exo-Suit, the star chart from the Research Institute and all the awesome printed parts and figs in the Ecto-1 set.

[ummester]

I did mention, Lego-Freak, that the main advantage Ideas has over the MOC Shop is that, by being tied in with the primary producers, parts that are not available can be included in design. The MOC shop is limited entirely by not only what parts are in production but by what parts are available - this said, If you designed a marketable model/idea, you could effectively stockpile on the parts required for it and set up a Bricklink store purely for selling that model. Also, the MOC shop allows selling of models that are outside TLGs guidelines - military vehicles, film, or TV tie ins that TLG won't touch and so on.

I think the Ghostbusters minifigs are cool and Ecto 1 is a nice model (though not as nice as the original design), jonwill. Other than prints and minifigs, I haven't seen that much innovation on Ideas. Red and white are the only true spacemen, the green is a gimmick :D I don't get the Research Institute at all - other than there seems to be way more of a market for PC minifig packs than something you can build. Ideas is very responsive to nostalgia and popular culture, in a way it is more commercial than LEGO has become, which kind of shows why LEGO became so commercial, I guess. People seem to buy what they are advertised, without thinking outside that box. I'm glad the birds got through because that is a nice, non-popular culture, brick and build set - LEGO seems to be charging too much for it for Australian customers though. I also wonder if something like the bird set would get through now that the runs are down to a year.

[Artanis I]

We've talked about an upper size limit, but we haven't really talked about a lower size limit. Is the piano too small? Think about it, the extra cost put towards Ideas sets with the booklets and nice boxes etc may make it appear too expensive for what it is. People already baulk at Ideas sets due to price. I was keen on the birds out of principle (it's a nice original idea) but for $70 I'm not so sure.

That said, submitting a well-though-out project that shows its buildability and play features, as appropriate, will be more likely to garner the necessary votes.

I think that's the thing. Who's going to vote for a sketch or paragraph? Certainly not 10000 people. Besides, the whole point of Lego is to build.

I also think that we as a LEGO community should try to shake the "That is a cool MOC, you should put it on Ideas" notion that pops up all the time. Sometimes a great MOC is just a great MOC, and not a great idea for Ideas.

I agree. Every time on Eurobricks there is a competition for "design a set" (ie not a MOC, but something TLG might actually make), the submissions with the most votes are amazing MOCs that look nothing like what TLG would ever make, barring a few exceptions. So good luck with that...

[just2good]

We've talked about an upper size limit, but we haven't really talked about a lower size limit. Is the piano too small? Think about it, the extra cost put towards Ideas sets with the booklets and nice boxes etc may make it appear too expensive for what it is. People already baulk at Ideas sets due to price. I was keen on the birds out of principle (it's a nice original idea) but for $70 I'm not so sure.

Well, the Research Institute was pretty small, only about 165 pieces and retailed for $20 USD.

[Blondie-Wan]

I also wonder if something like the bird set would get through now that the runs are down to a year.

I'm not sure what you mean. It just got through three months ago, hardly enough time for conditions to have changed so much that it wouldn't get through now.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Blondie-Wan

[Artanis I]

Well, the Research Institute was pretty small, only about 165 pieces and retailed for $20 USD.

I would suggest that anything smaller than that one would possibly be getting too small. A lot of AFOLs commented that it wasn't very much Lego for a $20US set, so the smaller you go the less value-for-money it looks, when you [take into consideration / ignore] the extra presentation.

I'm not sure what you mean. It just got through three months ago, hardly enough time for conditions to have changed so much that it wouldn't get through now.

I think he was talking about the new 1 year limit for gaining support. Did it take longer than that? The 2 at the top of the list for next review both took longer.

[Blondie-Wan]

I think he was talking about the new 1 year limit for gaining support. Did it take longer than that? The 2 at the top of the list for next review both took longer.

Ah. Yes, it took about a year and eight months. But then, the flip side of that is that if it were posted now, with Ideas likely drawing more users all the time, it's quite possible Birds would have done it faster if it were posted now, though there's no way to know for sure.

Some of the other approved projects have taken over a year to accrue their votes - including Shinkai 6500, which took 420 days to reach just 1000 votes (the original required count for CUUSOO, albeit all from Japan). The Female Minifigure Set that became the Research Institute also took slightly over a year.