Ambassador Project - Defining the Factions

[Mazin]

Could But then again we have epaulets, lapels and other stuff that would go in different colors and so divert attention

Well, it's just an idea to have more colors IN THE POLL, so that we would not end up with choosing only from orange and green

Is is possible that one of our friendly neighbourhood artists could make a test/rendition with different color patern for all 3 factions ( not just soldiers ) to see what paterns would suit us best??

I mean - so we could do that same way they do choose colors in the toy industry.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Mazin

[Ardelon]

Wouldn't the minifigures' skin colour make yellow look a bit weird?

It could be the Wolverine yellow-orange (yellorange?), which would be a bit better, but yeah, I agree.

[Mister Phes]

Well, it's just an idea to have more colors IN THE POLL, so that we would not end up with choosing only from orange and green

The poll will probably only get 20 votes so having too many options won't yield good results.

[Bob De Quatre]

Maybe the entries of the poll should be groups of colors, like orange, green, grey... And after the poll we could decide if dark orange is better than orange (if orange wins the poll).

If there are PNG files of the torsos paintings, I could do mock-ups of differents torso colors in LDD.

[Mazin]

The poll will probably only get 20 votes so having too many options won't yield good results.

Still, we ought to have more choices. It's not about having too many of them, it's simply about having more than just 2 or 3. I'm just worried that most of voters here are kind of lazy and won't think of other possible paterns themselves and so will go for popular options... Orange might be the best choice and TLG might love it... or they might not... we have to take our chances and think this matter over and over again...

[David Thomsen]

Some points:

• Green was used for the Imperial Armada minifigures.
  
• I'd suggest using a different torso design and not recycling the 2009 Imperial Guard design. I just used that to create a quick mock-up so I didn't have to spend hours creating something new.
  

Ah, whoops! I never bought any Armada sets, I've only ever had redcoats and bluecoats. I always found the Armada sets to be slightly out of place alongside the pirates and soldiers, like they're from the age of Discovery, while pirates and soldiers are from the age of Colonisation.

[Ardelon]

I would say the Armada had red as its primary color, as two out of the three unique torsos were red. Green was used only by one guy, so I wouldn't exactly call the color taken, or the Armada a "greencoat" faction.

Apart from these issues, what about the nature of the smuggled goods? If not treasure, as I suggested above, I wouldn't be opposed to the cracker idea. It's a fun, tongue-in-cheek scenario. Or maybe bananas, so we can throw in some monkeys to wreak havoc (maybe they could be a fourth faction with their own agenda ).

I wouldn't like it to be alcohol or exotic animals or weapons or any real-life commodity that is often smuggled. But, eh, vox populi and all that.

Maybe yet another poll for this question too?

Edited May 27, 2014 by Ardelon

[tedbeard]

Wouldn't the minifigures' skin colour make yellow look a bit weird?

Yeah, any shade of yellow makes minifigs look naked.

Maybe the entries of the poll should be groups of colors, like orange, green, grey... And after the poll we could decide if dark orange is better than orange (if orange wins the poll).

Or we could simply list all choices, each of us rank them then choose based on a preferential ballot. (ie. based on 10 choices: rank 1= 10 points, rank 2=9, rank 3=8. etc )

[BFN]

Apart from these issues, what about the nature of the smuggled goods? If not treasure, as I suggested above, I wouldn't be opposed to the cracker idea. It's a fun, tongue-in-cheek scenario. Or maybe bananas, so we can throw in some monkeys to wreak havoc (maybe they could be a fourth faction with their own agenda ).

I strongly disagree with both bananas and crackers. I don't really know any little kids who would go "Woah, cool, crackers!" and also can't really imagine them or bananas convincing anyone to buy the sets for parts. Aside from the possibility of treasure, I still think it may be possible to add a sort of "enchanted" element to the story. Magic seashells, perhaps, or something like that? It wouldn't require too many new moulds, yet could offer some neat new reprints/recolours. The unicorn horn in a pearly colour, Hadras's shell head without printing, printed round 1x1 tiles, etc.

[Mazin]

Yeah, any shade of yellow makes minifigs look naked.

There've been plenty of these Yellow guys in space sets and I've never found them to be "naked" + "yellow coats" doesn't mean that they would wear that color only + that's simply just one of the colors to be taken under consideration... it would defenitely suit those soldiers better than black... which is always popular but kind of overshadowing everything.

This picture below could also give us another idea - that we should take it under consideration whether Guards could consist of different units with different colors - like infantry, marines, cavalery etc...

Aside from the possibility of treasure, I still think it may be possible to add a sort of "enchanted" element to the story.

That would work well if we had a cartoon to promote those elements...

And I agree with You on those crackers... Problem with smuggling and trade is that kids don't really know the value of spices and other "silly" goods... Looking for stuff both merchants and smugglers would like to smuggle and posses, be rich of we should look for things KIDS would like to be rich of... We can always take it with a pinch of salt and make them fight over toys

Edited May 27, 2014 by Mazin

[Mister Phes]

A Defining the Haven Guard poll is now available.

[madmordiggin]

Hmmmmm, I still say the smugglers may as well just be pirates. Why limit the faction to just smuggling things when Pirates already do that and more? seems a bit restricting to take away the potential sea battles, treasure hunts and swashbuckling adventures in favour of.sneaking around carefully.

[The_Cook]

Hmmmmm, I still say the smugglers may as well just be pirates. Why limit the faction to just smuggling things when Pirates already do that and more? seems a bit restricting to take away the potential sea battles, treasure hunts and swashbuckling adventures in favour of.sneaking around carefully.

You have to separate your eventual play possibilities from what we need to create a marketable product. For a marketable product we need a coherent storyline to assemble the theme around that communicates easily across language barriers. That choice happened to be historic smuggling.

As with all Lego you would be free to turn those smugglers into whatever your mind is capable of dreaming up if the sets ever get produced.

[tedbeard]

A Defining the Haven Guard poll is now available.

The poll is unclear if we will be using the approach suggested by Bob De Quatre to group all shades of colours under one and decide later or if something like "Dark Orange" should be an "other"?

[Bob De Quatre]

The poll is unclear if we will be using the approach suggested by Bob De Quatre to group all shades of colours under one and decide later or if something like "Dark Orange" should be an "other"?

Mister Phes wrote at the end of the introduction post:

In the Defining the Factions thread numerous colours have been suggested, however, the aim of this poll is not to explore every colour possibility available, but to narrow it down. So the three most popular colour choices (excluding shades) have been added to the poll. We shall determine the the most appropriate shade after the colour has been selected.

[tedbeard]

^ D'oh!

Thanks.

[mccoyed]

Here's my own take on this, forgive me if I'm violating the parameters but adjustments can be made to this as needed if it is a schema that bears consideration:

NOTE: I use smuggler/colonist interchangeably. Please note that I understand that "Smugglers" is the faction, where "Colonist" is meant to refer to their origin/outlook.

MERCHANTS:

The West Brick Trading Company has diversified! To entertain the rich and greedy, they capture and ship exotic animals (brick-built or re-used moulds with new color? a little fantasy may not hurt here) native to the New World for use in zoos. Their base of operations is Brickhaven, a rich trading port with plenty of pens and cages for their captured animals.

I'll take a step away from the group here and say that the merchants should wear earthy, more pirate-y clothing (common sailors) with major characters being richer and more ornate with powdered wigs and a lot of jewelry/bling on their torso prints. Their flag and symbol should evoke the East India Trading Company with its Roman letters and coin motif.

SETS:

Mid-sized flagship

Trading Post w/ Animal pen and Smuggler attackers.

SMUGGLERS:

The colonists of the islands around Brickhaven are more interested in trading and enjoying their New World paradise and live in peace with the animals (and tribes perhaps?) that exist there. However, the capture of the animals is destabilizing the ecosystem (again, fantasy elements can be introduced here) so it's up to the colonists to become Smugglers and try to recapture and release the animals!

Because they have adapted to their new surroundings, the colonist/smugglers will favor brighter colors and more flamboyant dress. Something that evokes the more colorful version of the standard piratical appearance. More "Hook" than "POTC" with colorful scarves, headwear, and sashes but overall still a rustic and poorer-looking group. Their flag should be a broken cage or something that evokes freedom.

SETS:

Secret Base built into a town scene

Ship Battle w/ Merchants

BRICKHAVEN GUARDS:

Caught between the merchants that employ them and the colonists that depend on them for protection, the Brickhaven Guards reluctantly keep the merchants' peace and try to stop the Smugglers from interrupting their trade routes back to the Old World. Some of the Guards are more sympathetic to the Smugglers, others like the money brought in by the West Brick Trading Company so tensions exist within this faction.

Of the mock-ups done so far, I like the orange best. These guys should be similar to the 17th century military/marine uniforms we know from history, but could perhaps be adapted a bit in the rank and file soldiers to evoke their militia/colonial origins. Perhaps this would be a good way to differentiate between those Guards who favor the colonists and those who favor the merchants. More color and sashes and loose, open clothes (like open coats on the torso print) for the smuggler-sympathizers, and more rigid traditional uniforms for those who are merchant-sympathizers. Their flag should be either an animal motif or perhaps a coat of arms.

SETS:

Large-size flagship w/ brig containing smugglers

Barracks battle w/ Smugglers

MAJOR HEROES (SAMPLE):

SMUGGLER HERO: a young man from the smugglers who is very sympathetic to animals and perhaps has a signature pet. He fights only reluctantly but his passion for the animals anchors the struggle for the smugglers.

GUARD HEROINE: a young woman in the Guards who finds herself sympathetic to the smugglers and inspired by the compassion of the hero.

MAJOR VILLAINS:

MERCHANT VILLAINESS: the real mastermind behind the animal exporting/zoo scheme. She's filthy rich and greedy and doesn't want it to stop.

GUARD VILLAIN: the strong right hand of the villainess, he's the reason the Guards haven't switched sides and why the tensions are kept quiet. He's a bit of a tyrant.

[Captain Sweatpants]

Hello everyone

I have a question about how the factions are thought to relate to each other. In the past there where pirates and soldiers for doing battle, and the merchants/civillians (not that i can think of any merchant-types in the sets i had as a kid) i think would be assumed to be protected by (and friendly to) the soldiers, and attacked by (and scared of) the pirates. At least, that's how we played with them as kids. The point is, pirates are the bad ones.

But to me it seems that smuglers trade with people what those people want to have and are willing to buy, while the soldiers - by attacking the smuglers - take away much wanted goods. This would seem to make the relation of the merchants to the smugglers more symbiotical than their relation to the soldiers. (This would no really be true if the smuggles where like human trafficers or slavers or so, but they won't.) This would change the simple 'good-bad-innocent'-devide it think

So this would seem to make the relation between smugglers and merchants positive (availability of trading of illegal goods to merchants),

between the smugglers and the soldiers negative (soldiers attack smugglers for breaking the law),

and between soldiers and the merchants negative (merchants have to beware of any soldiers snooping around when trading with the smugglers, have to hide the illicit goods, have to pay taxes :p )

At least, thats how it seems to me. Do you think that makes sense?

All this could be changed by making it so that the merchants are running some kind of monopoly (it is based on a historical trading company after all :p ) and the smugglers are breaking the monopoly, making them hated by the merchant company and hunted by the soldiers. But to me this would make a 4th faction wanted, some non-merchant traders who want to buy cheap goods and don't care where they get them from (shady inn-keepers come to mind).

Also, if the smugglers deal in something 'bad' like alcohol, tabacco or exotic animals (in tiny cages) is would change the game somewhat.

I'm not sure if this all makes sense to you all, but this is my first post ever so spare me ;)

Captain Sweatpants

Edited June 7, 2014 by Captain Sweatpants

[Mister Phes]

So this would seem to make the relation between smugglers and merchants positive (availability of trading of illegal goods to merchants),

Maybe in real life but this is a kids toy. The Merchants are honest people don't want the Smugglers using their port to sell bad things! Simple as that.

Although, the backstory will be minimal so the individual can decide whatever they like. For example: the Merchants might be working with the Smugglers to sneak illegal goods into port and the Harbour Guard is trying to apprehend anybody involved, Merchant or Smuggler.

[Matteo1130]

I know this theme is mostly done, so this is just a question for my curiosity:

I've just now relized the concern about smugglers, the way they could not be accepted by younger players because of the unknown nature etc..

Looking at the old LEGO catalogue page, the main figures weren't the imperial guards, but pirates. This is pretty unusual, because often the protagosists are the "good guys". Haven Guard is an idea I love and I'd like to see realized, but if it don't work because of the unknown figure of the smuggler there could be an answer:

It might be boring, for a kid playing, to pretend to be a merchant, hoping to avoid pirates encounter and everyting for going well, but it might be exciting to pretend to be a smuggler, they also have to fear pirates for robbing cargos, and haven guards too!

Is it stupid to think smugglers as the protagonists in this theme?

[Mister Phes]

I know this theme is mostly done, so this is just a question for my curiosity:

Incorrect, we've only focused on the Haven Guard thus leaving much room for further development of the Smugglers and Merchants.

Is it stupid to think smugglers as the protagonists in this theme?

No it's not. The Merchants could be antagonists who prevent the poor Smugglers from using their port in order to maximise their profit - so the Smugglers have to smuggle just make ends meet! Really it's up the individual to decide but to kids the Smugglers will look like pirates anyway... To them "The Smugglers" will be little more than a faction name.

In reality the Merchants are intended to be protagonists - their role is to provide a non-military faction which the other factions can pillage or compete against. And by other factions I'm referring to Pirates, Smugglers and even Imperial Guards or Imperial Armada, as the nations were at war with each other at some point. Historically, even Islanders have been known to have uprisings against the local settlements...

The angle I'd take with the Smugglers is make them like a secret society... Kind of like a thieves guild... So they have their own insignia which they only reveal amongst one another... They're also saboteurs who are constantly attempting to hinder the Merchants honest trading efforts in order to maximise their own. So Smuggler sets could have accessories like dynamite or a saw to represent the tools they use for their nasty handy work. But they'd still have guns, swords and cannons like regular pirates.

Despite what elaborate back-story we may devise as AFOLs, the below catalogue scan below illustrates all the back-story necessary. Some of the larger catalogues even had a sentence or two for each set but overall it's very minimal...