jluck Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 [snip] Anyway, as contradictory as it may seem, Warren was really supporting Greg so maybe he is town. After all, Greg looked like a good lynch bet from the beginning of the day and today that really looks like a bad call. Can you clarify this? It seems like your saying lynching Greg looks like a bad call today. But that's the best call we've made...
Calanon Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 I'm surprised that she thinks I am as much scum as Greg was. Partially since I'm a loyal townie and partially because the evidence against me she was asking me about which seemed like a whole lot of nothingburger. Anyway, as contradictory as it may seem, Warren was really supporting Greg so maybe he is town. After all, Greg looked like a good lynch bet from the beginning of the day and today that really looks like a bad call. Timothy jumped on the bandwagon near the end when it seemed like momentum was going against Greg and he was going out anyway. Overall, I feel like he's been pretty quiet. So, he is my number 1 scum choice for today. I voted as soon I got home from college. Quiet is just how I am - I don't always have masses to add to the convo.
Tohst Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 Can you clarify this? It seems like your saying lynching Greg looks like a bad call today. But that's the best call we've made... Ack. No, sorry for being confusing. Lynching Greg was a great call. Warren supporting Greg so vehemently looks like a bad call. Which, if he were scum, he would've known it was a bad call the entire time he did it.
jluck Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 Ack. No, sorry for being confusing. Lynching Greg was a great call. Warren supporting Greg so vehemently looks like a bad call. Which, if he were scum, he would've known it was a bad call the entire time he did it. Haha gotcha! I highly. Doubted you were defending Greg, I just wanted a quick clarification on it. You're all good!
Comrade Commander Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 Well, I am happy we got a a scum, but I guess I ended up on the wrong side of the vote. I know that makes me look suspicious, especially since the only known scum voted with me, but I hope you see my reasoning behind my voting. Majority of you also felt Emma was scummy so I hope you will keep that in mind. Unfortunately I was not privy to the back room conversations, and Fred's hunches, so I couldn't work together with everyone. I had to go with what I saw, and it just blows my mind that Isaac would trust someone blindly on the first day. Sadly it looks like the scum are good at manipulating people. As for voting today, well Timothy still seems scummy due to his inconsistent conversations with us, and Warren strikes me as odd due to his last minute jump from Emma yesterday. Just struck me as weird
getdamonkey Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 If I'm right ill vote Greg then Warren will invite you and vote Greg to seal it. Just how many people are in this cabal that you folks have going?
jluck Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 Just how many people are in this cabal that you folks have going? As far as I was aware, it was a private conversation between me and Fred. Who Fred chose to share that info with is completely beyond me. However, you did say on page 1 that you received messages as well from Fred. If you could give us some screen shots it could really help us narrow our search! Honestly, I'm glad Fred messages you, it'll will provide even more intel to complete this picture.
Calanon Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 Well, I am happy we got a a scum, but I guess I ended up on the wrong side of the vote. I know that makes me look suspicious, especially since the only known scum voted with me, but I hope you see my reasoning behind my voting. Majority of you also felt Emma was scummy so I hope you will keep that in mind. Unfortunately I was not privy to the back room conversations, and Fred's hunches, so I couldn't work together with everyone. I had to go with what I saw, and it just blows my mind that Isaac would trust someone blindly on the first day. Sadly it looks like the scum are good at manipulating people. As for voting today, well Timothy still seems scummy due to his inconsistent conversations with us, and Warren strikes me as odd due to his last minute jump from Emma yesterday. Just struck me as weird Inconsistent how?
Comrade Commander Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 Inconsistent how? Inconsistent might be the wrong word, but I cannot think of one that describes what I want to say. The bottom line, yesterday I think you posted twice, could have been one or two more times, but either way you didn't add much to the conversation. It seemed you were more waiting for the tide, and then just went with the flow. It is a fact others called out, and something even yourself mentioned while defending yourself. I understand not having a lot of time to post,etc. but you said you didn't have a lot to contribute. I would have at least expected you to ask questions, clarify facts, share which way you are leaning. As others pointed out early on I the game, we need to talk things through. Even if you want to post once, just to cast a vote, it should be a longer post with justifications, etc. I am on my mobile, so will do a little more digging later but just wanted to respond while I am on
Calanon Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 Inconsistent might be the wrong word, but I cannot think of one that describes what I want to say. The bottom line, yesterday I think you posted twice, could have been one or two more times, but either way you didn't add much to the conversation. It seemed you were more waiting for the tide, and then just went with the flow. It is a fact others called out, and something even yourself mentioned while defending yourself. I understand not having a lot of time to post,etc. but you said you didn't have a lot to contribute. I would have at least expected you to ask questions, clarify facts, share which way you are leaning. As others pointed out early on I the game, we need to talk things through. Even if you want to post once, just to cast a vote, it should be a longer post with justifications, etc. I am on my mobile, so will do a little more digging later but just wanted to respond while I am on I posted how I was leaning before I even voted the other day, but I shall try then. It shall be easier to do so if I am kept alive, I want to see these purists dead and not innocent townies.
-Horizon- Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 I'm surprised that she thinks I am as much scum as Greg was. Partially since I'm a loyal townie and partially because the evidence against me she was asking me about which seemed like a whole lot of nothingburger. Anyway, as contradictory as it may seem, Warren was really supporting Greg so maybe he is town. After all, Greg looked like a good lynch bet from the beginning of the day and today that really looks like a bad call. Timothy jumped on the bandwagon near the end when it seemed like momentum was going against Greg and he was going out anyway. Overall, I feel like he's been pretty quiet. So, he is my number 1 scum choice for today. Sure, you say your a townie, but everyone says that so its is kind of hard to know. Or maybe me supporting Greg was me not getting why everyone was voting for him.
getdamonkey Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 As far as I was aware, it was a private conversation between me and Fred. Who Fred chose to share that info with is completely beyond me. However, you did say on page 1 that you received messages as well from Fred. If you could give us some screen shots it could really help us narrow our search! Honestly, I'm glad Fred messages you, it'll will provide even more intel to complete this picture. I never said that I got a list from Fred. Just that I got one. What's important to me is that you're above board with the citing Fred's correspondence. Feelings mutual, I've been hearing from her since the start of day 2 so I'm hoping she had some good insights. I don't have time this second because there are somewhere around 50 messages but ill sort through them soon. Genuinely curious about the other 48 messages.
jluck Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 Huh, well good vote guys, but I'm still worried. Honestly, I was suspicious of Fred for a bit but he (actually a she) really came up strong there at the end. I feel like secrets are kinda off as our number is so low so I can say that she PM'ed me a list of suspicions during day 2. Greg was on that list so she had something right. I'll look up the other names and share them ASAP. (Ps I got clarification from bob that it's ok to share what I've received in a PM as long a it's not one from him.) I'm glad I wasn't the only one who got a list! Did anyone else get a list? I never said that I got a list from Fred. Just that I got one. What's important to me is that you're above board with the citing Fred's correspondence. Genuinely curious about the other 48 messages. Sorry, I interpreted this exchange to insinuate that you'd received a list from Fred. You came across as slightly cryptic on this I must say. In regards to the other 48 messages, of which half are obviously mine, I will share what I can. Full disclosure though, some of the discussion was regarding non-game related family issues and several messages were reaction to certain posts. So I can honestly say not everything will aid us in our discussion. I will post any relevant message I find and if anyone has special requests for info I will deal with them accordingly. Remember, everything I show you here, the scum also see.
getdamonkey Posted May 24, 2014 Posted May 24, 2014 So I'm going to be blunt and say that the cabal of assumed town (CAT) is probably leaky. Reading through Fred's posts yesterday and comparing them to the two messages you received, clearly I was suspected more than she let on. We disagreed but she never outright called me scum like she did on the first of the messages. It would seem that her being eliminated makes me a logical next target for the cabal. So that I can clearly outline this, the cabal consisted of, at a minimum, Fred, Adam, Warren and Tim. (on a side note, I'm using "cabal" not to imply that they are being evil and shadowy but because cabal really does describe what they seemed to be doing "a secret political clique or faction") Hopefully, you've considered that CAT is leaky. If you haven't, you need to start.
jluck Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 Yep, we're done for if there was 4 yesterday since the split would be 3-3 now and scum would be able to force votes. So let's all stick with 3 total scum since that's the number that allows us to live another day. If we had 3 scum yesterday, everyone needs to keep in mind that the ratios are exactly the same today as they were yesterday so rooting out scum is every bit as important today as it was yesterday. So I'm going to be blunt and say that the cabal of assumed town (CAT) is probably leaky. Reading through Fred's posts yesterday and comparing them to the two messages you received, clearly I was suspected more than she let on. We disagreed but she never outright called me scum like she did on the first of the messages. It would seem that her being eliminated makes me a logical next target for the cabal. So that I can clearly outline this, the cabal consisted of, at a minimum, Fred, Adam, Warren and Tim. (on a side note, I'm using "cabal" not to imply that they are being evil and shadowy but because cabal really does describe what they seemed to be doing "a secret political clique or faction") Hopefully, you've considered that CAT is leaky. If you haven't, you need to start. Jeff, calm down just a bit. Look at the timestamps, the first message where Fred suggested you MAY be scum was early, as time progressed she put you on her town list. She believed you to be town, at least in our correspondence. The only one pointing a finger at you is, ironically, you. As to your CAT (nice acronym btw), my correspondence was with Fred. If she chose to talk with others, I hope they step up and share what they've learned, like I originally thought you were gonna do.
Tohst Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 At least that explains why it seemed so quiet in the thread....everyone was active in PM. Full disclosure: I was talking with Adam....I think between the two of us we racked up 6 messages. And since we were still feeling each other out as to if we were town, I don't think we ever got to anything meaty and nothing, I think, that I haven't said publicly. Adam, at this point, I think is the bottom of my list of people who might be scum. That is, he is the most town. <--really hoping these words don't come back to bite me.
jluck Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 At least that explains why it seemed so quiet in the thread....everyone was active in PM. Full disclosure: I was talking with Adam....I think between the two of us we racked up 6 messages. And since we were still feeling each other out as to if we were town, I don't think we ever got to anything meaty and nothing, I think, that I haven't said publicly. Adam, at this point, I think is the bottom of my list of people who might be scum. That is, he is the most town. <--really hoping these words don't come back to bite me. I do think its a good time for honesty willie. You are right, we never really got to much except my early suspicions of Fred I noted earlier, but our conversation died out quickly. Still feel free to share anything you find relavent, especially if I die.
Bob Posted May 25, 2014 Author Posted May 25, 2014 (edited) You may now vote. Lesson Five - Metagaming - What is it? What is Metagaming? Well, metagaming is pretty much using previous knowledge from past games to base judgement in current games. Short and simple, metagaming is not a positive thing, however it's usually used. Any mafia player can find and pick out so called "scum tells" or something said that appears to be scummy. However, some players just go back and see how another player acted in previous games. It's not so much of a deal in Mafia School, since you're all new and have never played this game before, so there's no way to identify when someone is acting similar to the way they've acted before. Short and simple, don't metagame. It makes the game less fun if all you don't base your suspicions on the current game and you base them on past ones. Edited May 25, 2014 by Bob
Tohst Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 Jeff, You've been pretty adamant that Adam not just provide details about his conversations with Fred but screenshots. You're now digging into him providing all of his correspondence with everyone. At the same time, you say you got a list but not from who and have provided zero details. Why is the information only flowing one way? Who did you get a list from? What was on that list? I'm not going to ask fro screenshots.
getdamonkey Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 Jeff, You've been pretty adamant that Adam not just provide details about his conversations with Fred but screenshots. You're now digging into him providing all of his correspondence with everyone. At the same time, you say you got a list but not from who and have provided zero details. Why is the information only flowing one way? Who did you get a list from? What was on that list? I'm not going to ask fro screenshots. You don't need screenshots; everybody has seen it. My list is my list from yesterday. Like I said, I was more concerned with making sure that Adam was above board with his list. And speaking of being above board, I should disclose that Willie is in IRC chat with me on a daily basis.and I've also done favors for him by picking up clearance LEGO that was sold out at his local store.
-Horizon- Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 You don't need screenshots; everybody has seen it. My list is my list from yesterday. Like I said, I was more concerned with making sure that Adam was above board with his list. And speaking of being above board, I should disclose that Willie is in IRC chat with me on a daily basis.and I've also done favors for him by picking up clearance LEGO that was sold out at his local store. That is cool, it's always cool when you find clearance LEGO. Hey guys I'm lost, Would someone mind explaining what you have been talking about?
getdamonkey Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 I'll recap in a bit Warren. Pulling together a case ATM
Tohst Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 You don't need screenshots; everybody has seen it. My list is my list from yesterday. Like I said, I was more concerned with making sure that Adam was above board with his list. And speaking of being above board, I should disclose that Willie is in IRC chat with me on a daily basis.and I've also done favors for him by picking up clearance LEGO that was sold out at his local store. So, to be clear. 1. The list you posted yesterday of your scum/town analysis comes from you 2. You have not been in communication with others outside the forum about it.
jluck Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 That is cool, it's always cool when you find clearance LEGO. Hey guys I'm lost, Would someone mind explaining what you have been talking about? Ok I'll catch you up... I revealed that Fred and I had been talking and she gave me her list. Huh, well good vote guys, but I'm still worried. Honestly, I was suspicious of Fred for a bit but he (actually a she) really came up strong there at the end. I feel like secrets are kinda off as our number is so low so I can say that she PM'ed me a list of suspicions during day 2. Greg was on that list so she had something right. I'll look up the other names and share them ASAP. (Ps I got clarification from bob that it's ok to share what I've received in a PM as long a it's not one from him.) Jeff said this.. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who got a list! Did anyone else get a list? And suggested we BOTH share our lists soon... We'd all be well served if we both disclosed our lists sooner rather than later. If either of us is scum, there's a pretty big incentive to use these lists for last minute "revelations" I shared mine in a screen shot to eliminate the possibility of me changing things (at Jeff's request) Bob has confirmed that it is ok for me to post screenshots (though he said in his memory, it has never happened before in mafia). Hang with me, I rarely share pictures so it may take me a few posts since I can't edit... https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5492/14073291339_1f8a46843f_z_d.jpg (If this appears as a link, not a photo, you can follow it to flickr and see the photo. Also, I hope the image isn't too large) Hopefully, this clarifies Jeff. And I'm gonna try it a second way as well, just in case the first doesn't work... Jeff said this... I never said that I got a list from Fred. Just that I got one. What's important to me is that you're above board with the citing Fred's correspondence. Genuinely curious about the other 48 messages. Willie followed by asking for a list. Jeff, You've been pretty adamant that Adam not just provide details about his conversations with Fred but screenshots. You're now digging into him providing all of his correspondence with everyone. At the same time, you say you got a list but not from who and have provided zero details. Why is the information only flowing one way? Who did you get a list from? What was on that list? I'm not going to ask fro screenshots. At which point Jeff said he already posted it, but didn't say who it was from, despite early saying that he got a list (making me believe someone, presumably Fred, sent one to him) You don't need screenshots; everybody has seen it. My list is my list from yesterday. Like I said, I was more concerned with making sure that Adam was above board with his list. And speaking of being above board, I should disclose that Willie is in IRC chat with me on a daily basis.and I've also done favors for him by picking up clearance LEGO that was sold out at his local store. To be perfectly honest, going into today, I had no reason to suspect Jeff, I have others I want to hear from more but Jeff's behavior on day 3 has seemed rather erratic.
getdamonkey Posted May 25, 2014 Posted May 25, 2014 Okay, there's a lot to go through here. Starting with Jordan on day #1 Jordan points out Adam's formatting error of Emily's quote as suspicious. So I noted this... If you look at the original quote (it didn't transfer over) in the associated post on page 2, you will see a quote accusing me from Dragonfire. Yet I do not see the original post which it is quoted from. Did anyone else pick up on that, or am I missing something? Three minutes later Greg chimes in and agrees. You're not alone, I noticed that as well... After an additional response from Fred and an attempt at clarification from Adam, Jordan moves to direct questioning on Adam. Actually the original quote is on page one. However I just realized that the quote you picked this up from on page two was condensed by someone else into a different meaning! Very interesting! I now see possibly two suspious people. So Adam, that begs the question then. Why did you change the quote? Hey guys, I went back and found all the lines from Emily cuz I didn't want her to get accused of removing a post. It's all still there, 1st page. Hope this clarifies it! Adam then defends his quoting here: I wanted to highlight the accusations that had been made, since it was such a long quote. I'm sorry if shortening posts is against the rules, this is my first game on any forum. My apologies to Bob and Emily. Not deterred, Jordan then casts his vote for Adam. This is vote #1 and the start of the bandwagon. Vote: Adam Powers (jluckhaupt) Adam, I see now what you did, I just disagree with it. To me it looked like a deliberate attempt to frame me by manipulating a post. Even though you did not change words around, people could have misinterpreted the few words that you left. There were three people highlighted in that post, yet the only name you let in was mine. Followed by multiple levels of accusation. So my vote will be for you. You corrected yourself, and I appreciate that. However I have to vote, and there is little to go on. Since changing quotes can be used to benefit the scum, I want to send a clear message that changing quotes without highlighting what you did in them (aka: use <snip>, etc) will not be tolerated by me. If anyone else has more suspicions, let us know soon! Tim follows 6 minutes later Since we must vote and we currently only have one person really suspicious: Vote: Adam Powers (jluckhaupt) I hope I do not regret this. 22 minutes later, the first of the two duet votes from Greg and Isaac is cast. I'm sorry Adam, but I don't see any other choice. Vote: Adam Powers (jluckhaupt) Neither do I, sorry. Vote: Adam Powers (jluckhaupt) Following votes from Emma and Melinda, Jordan declares the bandwagon he started. That, ladies and gentlemen, is a bandwagon. I am voting for Adam because I disagree with his play style. The rest of you just didn't want to cast the first vote and are now piling on to avoid the punishment. There is nothing for me to be correct about Melinda, and no way for us to know until the roles are revealed. This is the first day, and unless someone steps up and says "I am scum," then we have very little to go off of. I am hoping Adam is the murderer, but it is only a hope. So please don't skew my opinions into hard facts... Adam's playstyle that is something I disagree with, and is something the league of Purists could hide behind if we don't put an end to it now. Willie casts a vote for Melinda and votes come off of Adam and onto Melinda. Jordan defends his vote as playstyle. So I'll take a moment to talk about why this is important. At this point, I'm assuming that Adam is town (after our exchange earlier today). That means that at the end of day one everyone is voting between two town members. As a result, it doesn't matter who Jordan votes for either way, town gets lynched. My vote will stand. As it had already been mentioned time and time again, we really have nothing to go off of so the first day is a crapshoot. Because of this, I am going to leave my vote to make the point that I disagree with Adam's previous style. Because he has recognized his ways, tomorrow I will research the new evidence and would be willing to adjust my vote if needed. The next day, Jordan uses the vote as an opportunity to distance himself from the vote for Melinda. This is a great idea as it provides a great graphical representation of what transpired. My inital thoughts were that the scum are most likely to work together right? So looking at that, we see that the following people all voted the same people 1.) Isaac, Adam, Greg, Willie 2.) Emma, Timothy, Jordan [myself] 3.) Melinda, Emily (both dead/confirmed good) I would assume not all those people in one group are bad because they would need at least one good person to make the scapegoat, but it could all be bad people. The first group would seem suspicious to me because it contained some people who jumped from one bandwagon to another, but it also has Isaac who we know is good. Adam was the focus of the intial bandwagon, so there is two thoughts. one, is that he is scum and the scum bandwagoned against him in the first day to cover their trails and then jumped ship when they had the chance, or two, he is innocent. I am more apt to believe he is innocent. As for the second group, well obvioulsly I am biased but I also think that because they were part of the inital bandwagon, if they were scum they would have left to cover their trails as well. I stated my reasoning for voting the way I did on the first day, the others just jumped on board. So those are my thoughts, but really they are only thoughts. I am leaning toward voting greg as a semi-guess but it is a pretty thin lead Then he starts in on Emma (now confirmed town) Been thinking through everything and Emma seems kinda fishy to me too. I already have made the case as to why not talking much is not an indication of being scum, since even I have to study from time to time, but the logs show she has been active (profile shows she was on since day started) Also, if I recall, she wasn't very vocal yesterday either. In fact, I believe she spoke up seven times. Twice to call out quiet people (ironicaly), once to jump on a bandwagon, once to emphasise her vote so it counted, and the rest were more just jibber jabber. She has been active just enough to stay on the radar, hasn't made any remarks that would point fingers at her, and taken effort to make others appear scummy. Finally, she falls under the second grouping of people I listed above. Her and Timothy could have jumped on the bandwagon in an effort to sway the vote, and then stayed in an effort not to get labeled flip-floppers. Just a lead, I might be over thinking... Then things start to get interesting. After I had called out the timestamp alignment, Jordan calls into question the PM theory on the grounds of why would town coordinate with scum. On the surface this is a plausible defense but remember that Isaac doesn't know that greg is scum and greg does know this so it's really a one sided exchange. Jeff, those conversations are really close to each other. But I am confused as to how you think they were working together. Isaac was town. If he was scum, I would say it was scum coordination but I doubt a town and a scum were talking together since it would seem like a big risk. But am I missing something else? Jordan continues his defense making essentially the same point but expanding it to peg Greg to Isaac from the standpoint of Isaac was good so Greg must alo be good.. Remember, if you look at the votes at this point, There's not a lot of momentum behind lynching Greg at this point. Willie and myself have voted but if you look back on the posts following Willie's vote and leading to the post below (#'s 55 to 67 on day two), the group is still hemming and hawing about whether or not greg is scum. This is the last point that Jordan has to make a pitch for greg not getting lynched. Jeff, I get where you are coming from, but I am still not buying it. If it was the other way around, where Greg posted second, two minutes later, I would say ok he was hoping on/hopeing to start a bandwagon. and/or If we didn't know the alignment of either of them, I would say ok makes perfect sense that they would be scums coordinating. However, Isaac, is now known to be GOOD. Thus in my mind it nullifies the argument that they are working together since it is impossible for Isaac to know the Greg's alignment 100% (he could have been really niave and trusted a PM). It just seems improbable that they would be talking that much, this early in the game, to coordinate votes like that if they both weren't known to be on the same team. To me it appears that Greg voted, and either Isaac was already posting his decisons and/or Isaac decided to follow along because there was little else to go off of. Greg could very well be scum, but I just don't buy your logic behind your arguement and I think we are narrowing in too much on it. Does anyone else see anything suspicious (in particular that Greg did, but really for anyone)? After this, Jordan's efforts switch from defending Greg to accusing Emma. This has three main points that can really apply to most people here at some point during the last few days. This is all done without actually quoting any posts from Emma so it can be seen as pretty inflammatory. This is what I am thinking... I am leaning Emma at this time. 1.) She falls under the catagory of the people grouping together 2.) She has been active enough, deflected blame to others, yet has remained quiet enough to slip by (even the quote linked in Adam's post above seems like she is covering all her bases) 3.) She falls in the list of those Dragonfire called out, and thus potential revenge killing. So, since I am not sure if I will be able to make it on again before the deadline due to studying (RL: work/sleep) VOTE: EMMA (vampyre78) I will try to make it back on though to continue discussion Then we all gt on the topic of how any scum there actually are. Jordan holds to there being two scum. Even while the group as a whole was pretty set on 3-4 scum. Driving that number down is important for scum since it not only makes town believe that they can more easily take chances (the ratio of scum to town is lower so town can essentially miss more and still be okay) but it also restricts lists of potential suspects to smaller numbers. There's also a push away from looking at what Isaac possibly knew here but without actually defending Greg at this point essentially casting doubt on Greg as scum without actually jumping to his defense. First off, I guess I was under the wrong impression that days were 48hrs and not 72hrs. My bad! I would think 3 is a high number given the scum would win if we get today's vote wrong and two innocent people die tonight (correct me if I am wrong that when scum = town, it is a scum win because they can pretty much control everything[ie: deadlock a vote till night, and then pick off people one by one]) What I also want to know is what people think Isaac knew on day one? The only way the scum could con Isaac to vote along would be to claim town, and on day one we knew absolutely nothing about each others identities. The scum could have easily played it off as "oops, well now we know" when we killed an innocent person. If the scum had successfully fooled him into voting their way (something I think is highly unlikely) wouldn't they want to keep Isaac alive to continue the ploy? Isaac is dead now and his spirit is free to communicate to whoever he wants.. He just cannot speak to the living here in this room (correct me if I am wrong). Killing him would only free him to rat out his contacts, keeping him alive would have kept him on a tight leash. Just my thoughts. After this Jordan continues to push the line of inquiry towards Emma. Emma, your theory about the bandwagon forming to save Adam is interesting. I am sceptical because I don't think that many scum would have jumped on that early/fast if they knew he was scum, but you are right that it certainly adds a new twist to the plot. However, the reason I am voting for you today is more because of the way you post. We have discussed in detail throughout this day what makes you appear guilty, and from my perspective, you seem to have more evidence against you. Even in the conversation above you come across cold and calculating. Trying to subtly push Adam into the conversation. I might be starting to get horseblinders on with the reading & re-reading I am doing to make some analysis, and I will admit a lot of the evidence on both sides is sketchy, but we have to go with what we are given and that is just my gut. Whew, lots of typing there. So that gets us through Day 2. Now the final piece of the puzzle. I will admit, straight away, that this rests on the idea that CAT (Cabal of Assumed Town) is leaky or that Fred and a scum member were communicating. From the messages that Adam posted, it doesn't seem like much of a stretch since Fred seemed to be pretty freely communicating with people. The latter of Fred's lists is as follows: Scum: Willie, Jordon, Greg, Emma Greg's dead and scum, Emma is dead and town leaving Willie and Jordan. Only one of those two is on my list that I posted at the end of day 2. Since I'll be surprised if I make it through night actions, I'm going to leave my probables list My probable scum list is as follows: Tier 1 - Highest Probability Emma - stated Greg - stated Tier 2 - Worth Looking into Warren - Lots of random votes, heavy splintering behavior. Likelihood increases dramatically if Greg is scum. Willie - bit of a Keyser Soze thing going on (If you haven't seen "The Usual Suspects II: Suspects in Space", go watch it) Adam - Enough people have suspected him that just letting things go would be an issue. And that person is Jordan. If the scum assassin knew the contents of both lists (either by being a part of CAT or being party to the information by the other remaining scum being a member of CAT) the incentive is to kill Fred (who hasn't posted the list and is questioning the person who has question the allegiance of the maker of the other list). So at this point, we need two pieces of information: Was Jordan communicating with Fred or was otherwise involved with CAT? If Jordan didn't have access to that information than who did? Vote: Jordan Foster (Comrade Commander) Sorry for the late reply. See wall of text above. Fleebnork sitting is making things go a bit slower as well. To answer Willie: The list I referred to was the list from yesterday. I did send a short message to Adam and he replied. Here is the contents of that exchange: getdamonkey Premature Commiseration Posts: 217 Joined: 25-June 10 Member: 11659 Sent Yesterday, 03:17 PM Thanks for posting your list. Now to see who requests my list first! Jeff Yates in Excalibur TNG: Mafia School! Flickr PhotostreamThe AFOL Subreddit Reply Edit jluckhaupt Posts: 427 Joined: 08-July 13 Member: 70157 Country: USA Sent Yesterday, 03:27 PM No problem, seemed like a fair request to me. Adam Powers-remarkably unremarkable Next to the Word of God, the noble art of music is the greatest treasure in the world I've been away from IRC a lot this weekend (again fleebnork sitting) so I don't think I said anything to Willie about it. So, to be clear. 1. The list you posted yesterday of your scum/town analysis comes from you 2. You have not been in communication with others outside the forum about it. I think Adam summarizes most of this well but I think he missed that I said that it was my list from yesterday. Let's all assume that that was an honest mistake. I completely understand why you would be suspicious Adam but the best way to get you to post the list, in its entirety quickly and accurately was to make you believe that there was another list. I'm sorry if you feel deceived but please understand that there was a reason behind it. Ok I'll catch you up... I revealed that Fred and I had been talking and she gave me her list. Jeff said this.. And suggested we BOTH share our lists soon... I shared mine in a screen shot to eliminate the possibility of me changing things (at Jeff's request) Jeff said this... Willie followed by asking for a list. At which point Jeff said he already posted it, but didn't say who it was from, despite early saying that he got a list (making me believe someone, presumably Fred, sent one to him) To be perfectly honest, going into today, I had no reason to suspect Jeff, I have others I want to hear from more but Jeff's behavior on day 3 has seemed rather erratic.
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