WIP Brig of War

[Captain Genaro]

163C

UPDATE #1

http://www.eurobrick...5

UPDATE #2

http://www.eurobrick...5

This past year at the University, I ended up running across the Master and Commander series. After reading through them, it rekindled my love for the golden age of sail which in turn rekindled my desire to build a proper sailing ship out of Lego.

My overall goal is to create as realistic a brig as possible (although I might take some creative liberties if I really want to).

This is just my first draft of the project so some things are probably going to change before I am finished with her. Some bricks (lime green and orange) are simply place holders until I can get the right brick in the right color.

Please ignore the poor photography. I didn't want to spend a whole lot of time worrying about the lighting. It is a WIP, after all.

In case it's not clear, the quarterdeck only extends to the rearmost guns.

Although it does seem a little wide, it's proportions are fairly consistent with some brigs, mainly USS Niagara.

Here are the guns I plan on using. 18-pounder (left) and 12-pounder (right).

More pictures available here.

https://www.flickr.c...157644875567878.

Could someone tell me or (better yet) show me a picture of how the bowsprit connects to the ship? Does it go through the deck like on a post ship or does it simply connect to the main deck?

Comments and criticism welcome.

[ManInATopHat]

Really great start. Nice, clean hull shape, smooth lines. Great details on the weather deck. I see you've started to build a nice cabin as well. Your custom cannons are really good. I'm not entirely sure, but your bowsprit looks pretty good. I like how you've included a naval ram and incorporated the figurehead. An excellent ship!

[Mr. Townsend]

Off to an excellent start. I like that you've decided against prefabs and I don't think it looks too wide at all. I am curious why two sizes of cannon are needed. I look forward to seeing progress on this!

[Captain Braunsfeld]

Great custom cannon design - and the ship will be beautiful too!

More pics please!

[Captain Golden Hook]

Nice start, not everything seems clear to me but this will be cool

[kurigan]

Proportionally speaking, she's just about right in terms of length and breadth. That's just how brigs tended to be. I love that she's a waterline model, with out pre-fab hulls sections. She seems to sit a little low in the water at the moment, but not by much. Already your's seems very similar to Mr. Townsend's Pinniacle, so you may find her a helpful reference. You may also find the method I've adopted on my latest projects, appealing as well. 

As to your bow sprit question; it depends. On most brigs the bow sprit is mounted up on the gun deck. Weather or not there is a focsle above the gun deck for the sprit to have to pass through is another question.  The simpler way to handle these decisions, IMHO, is to pick a particular vessel or class of vessel for which you can find reference material. I might suggest the Cruizer class as one of the most prolific designs employed by the royal navy to date. They are well documented  and you may find that US Brig Niagara is very similar to a Cruizer class. If you appreciation for the Aubrey/Maturin series is what inspires you (I'm very much a fan myself), you might want to look into Thomas Cochrane and his HMS Speedy, the real world inspiration for Jack Aubrey and HMS Sophie. at the moment, the seemingly high angle of your bowsprit would appear to be a result of your unusually large prow. If you shrink it down, perhaps below the forward bulwarks, you probably won't be able to fit a mini-fig figure head, but you can have a much shallower angle to the sprit. Mr. Townsend made it work, but if your reference is Niagara, you'll note by comparison, her bow is much more spartan and her bow sprit  extends at a much lower angle, allowing her to cram on as many as four head sails. 

It may seem a long way off, but I feels as though I'd do you a service, based on my own experience, to ask what your plans for rigging are? With out a solid plan, you may find your self tearing up the hull to accommodate things later on. 

I hope I've been helpful as I always aim to be of service. Thanks for sharing and I'll look forward to an update.

[Sebeus I]

Good start, she does remind me of Mr. Townsend's ship as well (which looks great).

Good luck, I can't help on the bowsprit though.

[Captain Genaro]

Thank you all for your kind and insightful comments.

Off to an excellent start. I like that you've decided against prefabs and I don't think it looks too wide at all. I am curious why two sizes of cannon are needed. I look forward to seeing progress on this!

The 12 pounders are recycled from a ship I never finished a long time ago, and the 18 pounders are a more recent design. I'm not acutally planning on using both of them, I was just doing a comparison shot. Although they are a little heavy for a ship of this size, I think I'll stick with the 18 pounders.

And I must say, your Pinnacle is a huge inspiration. I hope you don't mind if I use a couple techniques from it on my brig.

not everything seems clear to me

Same here.

As to your bow sprit question; it depends. On most brigs the bow sprit is mounted up on the gun deck. Weather or not there is a focsle above the gun deck for the sprit to have to pass through is another question.

I might suggest the Cruizer class as one of the most prolific designs employed by the royal navy to date. They are well documented and you may find that US Brig Niagara is very similar to a Cruizer class.

It may seem a long way off, but I feels as though I'd do you a service, based on my own experience, to ask what your plans for rigging are? With out a solid plan, you may find your self tearing up the hull to accommodate things later on.

Trust me, you've been most helpful.

Thank you for the information on the Cruizer class. That'll definitely have some great reference information, especially since there seems to be a wealth of information on it.

As for the bowsprit, I don't plan on having a focsle, so it will just connect to the gun deck.

For the rigging, see the update below.

I've also started work on the masts.

And the crosstrees. When finished, they will all be black. Sorry for the blurry picture.

[Matteo1130]

I like the overall look and the amount of details! Nice custom guns, I made exactly the same design as yours on the right, and seing it on a completed moc has been a real satisfaction (I believe it was La Forgeaux.. on the weather deck, maybe in 2009, but I'm not very sure), can't wait to see it also on this ship of yours!

[kurigan]

We're you planning on simulating chains? If you are unaware, those are the portion of the shrouds which connect from below the channels to the hull, anchoring the shrouds. If so, we're you also going to add gunnel flaps? I foresee a conflict where the two are concerned. I had a similar problem on my Ramcat, where the shrouds were both too close together and too close to the hull to allow for the flaps to open and close so I was forced to omit them. Historically they would usually be present as to keep the wash of the sea out and the sailors in, but are not completely necessary. 

[Moomin]

Hey! Looking great - do really like these waterline models, and if I were to start the Parrot again, would consider going that way too (will post completed pic of that ship in next week or two - just finishing off the sails having soaked my linen pillow case in tea and PVA glue!;-). It seems that you are going for a much more technically accurate and more detailed ship than I with my project. Been away for months now, and my first look back to see these excellent ships under construction! Very impressed!

Have 2 issues with the cannons - I love the designs, but:

1. I note that you are using two different ones - I think the main battery would normally be of just one type, so as to mean that they (an the crews trained to fire them) were interchangeable .

2. Would also say that 18 pounder guns were a little on the heavy side for a brig cut to (what looks to be) a 7 gun broadside. Pretty new to all this, and could be wrong here, but think 12 pounder must be a maximum? My (now 14 gun) brig is nothing like as detailed as yours will be, of course, and slightly smaller, but was going to deem the guns 6 or 9 pounders - incidentally, think I read somewhere that the 12s and long 9s have the best range of any guns on ships of this period.

Sorry - I know the above sounds a bit pedantic, but understand you are looking to build a very historically accurate brig. Please do correct me (anyone) if you disagree with my comments. Really would be interested on know more on this.

Will be looking forward to the progress on your build.

Cheers!

Oh Woops! just re-read he comments, and realise that you have addressed my first point already! - Sorry!;-).

Edited July 3, 2014 by Moomin

[Captain Genaro]

Just placed a BL order the other day, so hopefully I can get some pieces for the rigging pretty soon and show you all some new pictures.

We're you planning on simulating chains? If you are unaware, those are the portion of the shrouds which connect from below the channels to the hull, anchoring the shrouds. If so, we're you also going to add gunnel flaps? I foresee a conflict where the two are concerned. I had a similar problem on my Ramcat, where the shrouds were both too close together and too close to the hull to allow for the flaps to open and close so I was forced to omit them. Historically they would usually be present as to keep the wash of the sea out and the sailors in, but are not completely necessary.

Oh dear, looks like I need to break out my nautical dictionary again . But please, keep using the terminology. I've got to learn somehow.

I do plan on simulating chains. Currently I plan on using some black string to simulate the chains, but I'll expand more on that when my next BL order arrives.

If I'm correct in assuming that gunnel flaps are the gun ports' covers that swing open to allow firing of the cannons, then no, I do not intend to use any. Although it appears as if most if not all rated ships would have them, almost all the brigs/sloops that I looked at do not (Lexington, Niagara, Cruizer class brigs, etc). The only one that I can think of that did include gunnel flaps is the Lady Washington.

Make no mistake. I'm only an amateur when it comes to nautical history/knowledge. If I'm mistaking please correct me. Looking up "Brig" on Google images for 30 minutes hardly qualifies me as an expert.

.

Hey! Looking great - do really like these waterline models, and if I were to start the Parrot again, would consider going that way too (will post completed pic of that ship in next week or two - just finishing off the sails having soaked my linen pillow case in tea and PVA glue!;-). It seems that you are going for a much more technically accurate and more detailed ship than I with my project. Been away for months now, and my first look back to see these excellent ships under construction! Very impressed! Have 2 issues with the cannons - I love the designs, but: 1. I note that you are using two different ones - I think the main battery would normally be of just one type, so as to mean that they (an the crews trained to fire them) were interchangeable . 2. Would also say that 18 pounder guns were a little on the heavy side for a brig cut to (what looks to be) a 7 gun broadside. Pretty new to all this, and could be wrong here, but think 12 pounder must be a maximum? My (now 14 gun) brig is nothing like as detailed as yours will be, of course, and slightly smaller, but was going to deem the guns 6 or 9 pounders - incidentally, think I read somewhere that the 12s and long 9s have the best range of any guns on ships of this period. Sorry - I know the above sounds a bit pedantic, but understand you are looking to build a very historically accurate brig. Please do correct me (anyone) if you disagree with my comments. Really would be interested on know more on this. Will be looking forward to the progress on your build. Cheers! Oh Woops! just re-read he comments, and realise that you have addressed my first point already! - Sorry!;-).

You're absolutely right on both points. Typically a gun deck would consist of the same pounder guns. And yes, 18 pounders would be quite heavy for a brig. Even 12 pounders would be a stretch. I chose the heavier cannon mostly because I want my brig to carry a heavy broadside. To be more historically accurate, I should have simply used some 32 pounder carronades, but I'm not a huge fan of carronades. Besides, cannons are easy enough to change so I can always make a couple of 9 pounders if I'm in the mood.

I took a quick look over at your parrot thread, and I must say, that's a fine looking vessel. I can't wait to see her once you get the sails all worked out.

[Captain Genaro]

Time for an update!

As you can see, I've started to move on to the rigging for the foremast. As of now, I only have the blocks and chains done for the larboard/port shrouds. Hopefully these pictures will give you a better understanding of how everything fits together.

Although I've never seen a picture of a brig, even a quarterdeck brig with side galleys, they just look too good to pass up. You may notice a resemblance to the stern galleys on Mr. Townsend's Pinnacle, as they were a huge inspiration.

Sorry for the blurry shot. An shot of the stern. Not sold on anything quite yet. This will probably undergo several redesigns, mostly focusing on adding ornate details.

And one last shot showing the chains and blocks.

[Mr. Townsend]

She's coming along nicely Captain Genero! This model is this ship on which I based Pinnacle. This is why I added stern galleries. I think that the chains off your channels could be improved if you eliminated the first 1x1 Modified brick and made the third one to stern have both string 3 and 4 in it. On a real ship they would have each chain vertical with only the ones over gun ports bent around them. Also before you start to string the upper masts I would suggest adding one more technic connector to each level as the uppers are slightly too short.

Looking forward to future progress!

[Captain Genaro]

I’m back from the university on winter break now, so hopefully I’ll be able to make some progress in the following weeks. I’ve already finished the lower shrouds and have started work on the upper shrouds. Unfortunately, I feel that the upper shrouds are going to have to be redesigned as they are far too vertical and don’t angle inwards enough. Enough talking, time for some pics.

HMS Valkyrie Rigging by Capt. Genaro, on Flickr

HMS Valkyrie Rigging by Capt. Genaro, on Flickr

HMS Valkyrie Rigging by Capt. Genaro, on Flickr

HMS Valkyrie Rigging by Capt. Genaro, on Flickr

[Mr. Townsend]

I'm rather surprised this update didn't get any comments. The rigging is looking great Captain Genero. I do agree that the upper shrouds are to vertical but I think that's easily changed by changing the crosstrees. I imagine at this points its been altered already. Have you made any progress on this?

[Plaid Beard]

I love this ship. I've been struggling a bit with the top masts on my own ship project, and you've given me some great ideas here. Thank you for sharing your work thus far. I'm very much looking forward to seeing it finished.

[RuneJack]

I like the design of those cannons especially the 18- pounder

[Captain Genaro]

I'm rather surprised this update didn't get any comments. The rigging is looking great Captain Genero. I do agree that the upper shrouds are to vertical but I think that's easily changed by changing the crosstrees. I imagine at this points its been altered already. Have you made any progress on this?

Sorry for the lack of updates. Between work and the university, I've only had limited time to actually work on my ship. I have several ideas about the crosstrees, so hopefully I'll be able to test them out soon. In the mean time, here's a picture showing some progress to the rigging. I also have the foremast upper shrouds' blocks done. Apologies for the poor quality.

P1090330 by Capt. Genaro, on Flickr

I've tried to keep it fairly historically accurate, but I'm mostly working off books or models I've found online, so some aspects might be off.

I love this ship. I've been struggling a bit with the top masts on my own ship project, and you've given me some great ideas here. Thank you for sharing your work thus far. I'm very much looking forward to seeing it finished.

Thank you very much. Hopefully I'll get to see a ship of yours one day soon.

I like the design of those cannons especially the 18- pounder

Here's another picture of it with the proper color scheme.

P1090333 by Capt. Genaro, on Flickr

[Captain Edward]

Looking very nice! I think the stern side windows need a little bid more attention, work those studs away!

Now very exited for it's final result!

[Captain Braunsfeld]

The ship has turned out really fine. A great model and a great source of inspiration.

Next on your list: How to take better pictures!

Honestly, you should add 1-2 pics of the final model (or create a new post for it so the update does not get overlooked).

[Captain Genaro]

Looking very nice! I think the stern side windows need a little bid more attention, work those studs away!

Now very exited for it's final result!

Aww, you don't like the random studs in the galleries? In all seriousness, the port side is done, but I need some pieces to finish the starboard galleries. I also need to add some headrails and work on the stern a bit.

The ship has turned out really fine. A great model and a great source of inspiration.

Next on your list: How to take better pictures!

Honestly, you should add 1-2 pics of the final model (or create a new post for it so the update does not get overlooked).

I'm nowhere near being finished. There's still a ton of work with the rigging and sails plus some minor details that need to be done.

As for the pics, they are terrible. I was in a bit of a rush to take them, so I do apologize. Wait until the next update before your final judgement on my photography .

[Captain Edward]

Aww, you don't like the random studs in the galleries? In all seriousness, the port side is done, but I need some pieces to finish the starboard galleries. I also need to add some headrails and work on the stern a bit.

Sawry

The stern needs also a little decoration, forgot to say that. So good you're going to work on that. For nice stern pictures just search.