Ambassador Project - Haven Guard Flag & Torso Designs

[Mister Phes]

I'd prefer a more direct inversion like this...

[Capt Wolf]

I took the liberty of updating the crown on some of the designs, using the crown from the crossed anchors emblem on each of them and sizing the crowns consistently. After all, we don't want the crown of the redcoats or bluecoats for the Haven Guard! Here are three of the guard flag designs along with the corresponding merchant flag designs. I've used a saltire pair, a horizontal stripes pair, and a vertical stripes pair. The first two have inverse background colors, but the vertical stripe design didn't lend itself to an inverse pattern.

[tedbeard]

I'd prefer a more direct inversion like this...

Ooooh, that is even better!

Don't like that one as much. I like the cannons on white better for some reason.

Edited July 11, 2014 by tedbeard

[Ardelon]

But like Mr Phes said, the one with the horizontal stripes is too similar to the Imperial Guards. Im either for the vertical stripes (if both Merchants and HG will use the same background - inverting the colors wouldnt work here, IMO) or the Saltires (in which case one faction can have an inverted flag). Lets try something ew and different than horizontal stripes.

While I like the idea of crossed muskets instead of cannons for a change, cannons just look better to me.

All in all, I agree with the words of David Thomsen:

(...) I think that stylistically, the diagonal cannons work better against a flag pattern that isn't also diagonal - they work better with the contrasting pattern of the horizontal or vertical stripes. Personally I think I would like the shaded cannon design against the vertical stripes (...)

Edited July 13, 2014 by Ardelon

[Capt Wolf]

Here's the vertical stripe design with the shaded cannons:

But I also got to thinking that the crossed cannons for the Haven Guard should be unique, not a copy of the redcoat or bluecoat cannons. So, what do you think of this (shown on 3 different backgrounds):

I didn't quite get the cannons at the proper angle, but drawn properly they should match the angle of the saltire.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Capt Wolf

[Mister Phes]

You're doing an excellent job with these designs, Capt Wolf!

Which program are you using?

[Capt Wolf]

Thanks! Just trying to contribute.

And I'm just using the simple little Paint program that comes with Microsoft Windows. It's limited, but it can get the job done most of the time.

[Mister Phes]

Yes, I'm familiar with Paint.

At some point we'll need to vectorize these designs so they're scalable and anti-aliased.

Does anyone have experience using Adobe Illustrator?

[Ardelon]

Im not liking this pattern:

... looks too much like a towel, rather than a flag. If we want to invert the colors, I guess the saltire works best, otherwise I would be for the vertical stripes.

And, of course, great designs, Capt Wolf!

Edited July 22, 2014 by Ardelon

[tedbeard]

... looks too much like a towel, rather than a flag.

LOL now that you say it that is all I can see.

Great for beach-related MOCs.

[Mister Phes]

It must soon be time to create a poll so we can determine which designs are most suitable...

Any thoughts on the number of poll questions? I.e.

Question 1: flag background - choice of saltire, vertical stripes, horizontal stripes or beach towel.

Question 2: Haven Guard insignia - choice of crossed cannons solid black, crossed cannons black with white highlights, crossed cannons white with black whites or crossed muskets

Or just have one question incorporating both elements?

Plus are we pretty much settled the Merchant's Insignia should be that seen on the sail of the ship in 6277 Imperial Trading Post?

[tedbeard]

^ I think that two questions would work better.

[2maxwell]

I agree that 2 questions would work better, and I think most people are on board for the merchants symbol. My remaining question is, if we go with a pattern that can be inverted (saltires, beach towel), when would we decide whether or not people want inversions, and if so, which one should be for the merchants and which should be for the guard? In a separate poll afterward?

[Capt Wolf]

It seems to me that there is much support for the crossed anchors design from the Imperial Trading Post set as the merchant emblem.

That would leave these questions to be resolved:

(1a) Background (6 choices): saltire (white cross on orange field), saltire (orange cross on white field), beach towel (thin white stripes on orange field), beach towel (thin orange stripes on white field), vertical stripes, or horizontal stripes

(1b) If saltire or beach towel chosen in 1a, should guard and merchant backgrounds be inverted

(1c) If inverted patterns are chosen, which version goes with the guards and which version goes with the merchants

(2) Emblem for guards: thinly shaded crossed cannons (from redcoats flag), solid black crossed cannons (from bluecoats flag), black-and-white crossed cannons (new design), or crossed muskets.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Capt Wolf

[Capt Wolf]

Just to get everything in one place, here are all six backgrounds with the black-and-white cannons guard design and the anchors merchant design:

Edited July 24, 2014 by Capt Wolf

[Mister Phes]

My remaining question is, if we go with a pattern that can be inverted (saltires, beach towel), when would we decide whether or not people want inversions, and if so, which one should be for the merchants and which should be for the guard? In a separate poll afterward?

It would probably work better if we determined inversions now, although it seems the majority is in support of this anyway.

Just to get everything in one place, here are all six backgrounds with the black-and-white cannons guard design and the anchors merchant design:

Excellent work!

But perhaps we need the backgrounds separated from the designs so one particular design doesn't take advantage over the other. Does that seem a less bias way of going about it?

[Capt Wolf]

One of the issues that has come up in this thread repeatedly is that people seem to like the saltire, but not necessarily when combined with crossed cannons (too many crossed items at once). And others have commented they like a certain background, but not when combined with a particular emblem (for both the guard and merchant flags). Would it be better if we decide on the emblem first, then choose a background design that goes with that emblem?

Also, since the choice of whether to invert the background or not may be affected by what the resulting merchant flag would look like (same issues with people's preferences about what colors the anchors emblem looks good on), once we've decided on a guard emblem, do we want to vote on the combinations of guard and merchant flags together? If we vote on just the guard flag and whether to invert, we run the risk of forcing ourselves into a merchant flag we aren't happy with.

I'll post emblems without backgrounds tonight.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Capt Wolf

[Mister Phes]

Would it be better if we decide on the emblem first, then choose a background design that goes with that emblem?

That's a tricky one, what we really need is a web app that's lets us build the flag by choosing the background and flag at the same time, then being able to change either instantaneously.

Problem is I don't have time to create one just at the moment.

Also, since the choice of whether to invert the background or not may be affected by what the resulting merchant flag would look like (same issues with people's preferences about what colors the anchors emblem looks good on), once we've decided on a guard emblem, do we want to vote on the combinations of guard and merchant flags together? If we vote on just the guard flag and whether to invert, we run the risk of forcing ourselves into a merchant flag we aren't happy with.

You're right, both Haven Guard and Merchant flags should be featured side by side in the poll to ensure they compliment each other.

If we go with a pattern that can be inverted (saltires, beach towel), when would we decide whether or not people want inversions, and if so, which one should be for the merchants and which should be for the guard? In a separate poll afterward?

Only if that's necessary, we don't want to overload everyone with too many polls.

[Bob De Quatre]

That's a tricky one, what we really need is a web app that's lets us build the flag by choosing the background and flag at the same time, then being able to change either instantaneously.

Problem is I don't have time to create one just at the moment.

If someone can send me the images, I can do it tomorrow

[Capt Wolf]

I can post the blank flag designs and isolated insignia tonight.

That said, the insignia are all very similar (except for the crossed muskets, which didn't seem to have much support anyway). They're just different styles of cannons. And I can mock up the flags with the chosen insignia fairly quickly if building the app is problematic.

[Bob De Quatre]

If you provide me:

- the blank flag image

- images of the different background style (with transparent background)

- images of the different insignia (with transparent background)

I can do a web app in a few minutes that could create every combination possible, with an unique identifier for each.

[Capt Wolf]

The problem is I'm not working with transparent backgrounds. I wish I was!

[Bob De Quatre]

Don't worry about the transparent background, I'll do it.

[Capt Wolf]

Cool. Thanks. I'll post images tonight.

[Mister Phes]

I can do a web app in a few minutes that could create every combination possible, with an unique identifier for each.

That's great! You'll probably do a much better job than I!