"Larger City Scale" - range of vehicle widths

[ER0L]

Hi all,

this is a suggestion of a range of widths of vehicles suitable to be used within a town in "larger city scale", as I call it, meant to go well with the larger CC buildings like PC, GE or FB. In fact it's no exact scale (which would be very difficult) but a possibility to get a graduation between different types of vehicles supposed to go well with each other.

From right to left:

• Roadster (6w), fits 2 figs side by side.
• Oldtimer car (6w+ = 6w plus mudguards), fits 2 figs side by side, usual measure of vintage cars. There are vintage cars fitting 3 figs, too.
• Offroader (modded 4437 SUV, probably my favourite City car, 6w+), fits 1 fig, just to show that this kind of TLG car goes well with the MOCs.
• Sports car (6w+), due to the special design this car (Mad Max Interceptor, recently shrinked from 7w+ to 6w+) only fits one driver and one dog which is sufficient here, this type of car is also possible with 2 figs side by side.
• Full-size car (7w), fits 3 or even 4 figs, as an LCS slot car the Checker Cab is equipped with steering and rear suspension.
• Full-size car, long vehicle (7w), the Ecto-1 fits 4 ghostbusters.
• Bus (7w+), the usual size of trucks and buses, the School Bus fits a whole bunch of figs, Monorail trains have the same width.
• Oversize truck (8w+), fits 2 figs, not to be used within the city where plain 8w vehicles don't seem to work, but as an ARFF the Faun will rarely be seen there. 8w will probably be the width of trains, too.

Will be continued. Some types of vehicles are still missing, small cars like a Mini or 2 CV would probably have a width of 5w+, and there will be some trucks, too.

Thanks for looking, c&c welcome as usual.

Edited March 24, 2019 by ER0L

[Criga88]

It looks like you've got the length to width ratio of your vehicles spot on. I personally think 4 wide would be better for a Mini or 2CV but trying to cram all of their signature details into such a small space is a big ask. I look forward to your take on them though and good luck

[lightningtiger]

They all work 'ER0L'....it's your mastery that makes it so......Brick On !

[eurotrash]

I like the range of scales you've got going on here - it seems like a natural and effective progression. And as for the Min and 2CV being 5-wide I think that that the two 4-wide Smart Cars that came with the 7939 Yellow Cargo Train validate that scale.

[ER0L]

It looks like you've got the length to width ratio of your vehicles spot on. I personally think 4 wide would be better for a Mini or 2CV but trying to cram all of their signature details into such a small space is a big ask. I look forward to your take on them though and good luck

Thank you. I guess within this range 5w is a suitable measure, if you have rather 6w passenger cars (or even smaller) 4w might indeed work better.

They all work 'ER0L'....it's your mastery that makes it so......Brick On !

Many thanks LT, I'd rather build some more cars than wracking my brain over that scale stuff ...

I like the range of scales you've got going on here - it seems like a natural and effective progression. And as for the Min and 2CV being 5-wide I think that that the two 4-wide Smart Cars that came with the 7939 Yellow Cargo Train validate that scale.

Thanks a lot. Yeah, I didn't think of that, makes sense to me.

[ER0L]

I'd like to add a photo that shows how to combine the two main minifig-based scale worlds ("City" and "Train") within the above mentioned range of widths:

The American diesel-electric loco I'm actually building (still a WIP) is 9w+ (9w plus railings) which seems to be quite large at the first moment. But if you take into account that the gauge of Lego tracks has about a 1/39 scale and that the scale of minifigs is about 1/40 to 1/45 (various definitions) you may recognize that a 1/43 loco has just about the right size. The 40 foot container (35x7 studs measure, about 1/43) fits well in here, too, also the 7w+ truck.

Of course, even the 6w+ passenger cars (about 1/35) are too large within this range, they should rather be 5w+, but we'd lose many design possibilities with that plus it would be difficult to fit the figs in - maybe one day that will be possible, too. But as a compromise this range of scales seems acceptable to me - a passenger car is considerably smaller than a truck which is considerably smaller than a loco.

To be continued ...

Edited May 14, 2015 by ER0L

[SearchFunction]

Mad Physcist did a similar scale photo for his creations. Direct linking to flickr pictures is beyond me so I will just link to the post https://www.flickr.com/photos/23494394@N04/5776471147

[ER0L]

Of course, guess I may add it here:

This range (about 1/45) is much more consistent scalewise, but you end up with 5-wide passenger cars which are very difficult to design - unless you are as proficient as Mad Physicist.

[ER0L]

Two more pics showing different types of vehicles together within the above mentioned range:

Although I don't use them for my own purposes, the usual road plates go well with all the vehicles, as you can see.

Loco, crash tender, aircraft, monorail train, car. Though the scales range from 1/35 (sports car) to 1/45 (aircraft) you may combine the vehicles - especially regarding the fact that you wouldn't place them that close to each other on a layout.

[lightningtiger]

I like the yellow plane 'ER0L', keep the AWESOMEness coming and Brick On !

[Ron Dayes]

Hey ER0L, this is a great post from you. I really like the Mustang , the oldtimer and the red and white diesel loco!

i recently made a 9 wide train aswell, just a shame that a playable track would need a lot of space for only one curve. I guess thats why they made the trains 6 wide in the first place to have them more "room compatible"... have you made a track with curves for it?

[ER0L]

I like the yellow plane 'ER0L', keep the AWESOMEness coming and Brick On !

Thanks a lot LT!

Hey ER0L, this is a great post from you. I really like the Mustang , the oldtimer and the red and white diesel loco!

i recently made a 9 wide train aswell, just a shame that a playable track would need a lot of space for only one curve. I guess thats why they made the trains 6 wide in the first place to have them more "room compatible"... have you made a track with curves for it?

Thank you! Glad you like them. Well, the Lego train curves as such aren't that space consuming due to their very small radius which on the other hand causes considerable overhangs, especially on larger locos or train cars. Those overhangs need lots of room indeed ... I agree regarding the very small scale for Lego trains - nobody would be willing to pay the price of such a giant loco. Anyhow I've tested the loco on curves and also on switches, it is able to pull some cars, even without moving pilots. But since I don't have enough room for a full train layout (especially not at this scale) it will only be able to move short distances.

Edited June 14, 2015 by ER0L

[Brick Car]

ER0l I love your wrecker truck!!!

[soccerkid6]

Really interesting comparison of different scale vehicles, and I agree that you can often get away with slightly different scaled designs in the same MOC

All of your vehicles look amazing

[ER0L]

Thanks guys. Even if the subject doesn't seem to be of great interest here I'll try to keep the scale problem in mind with further MOCs.

There have been some questions regarding the Canadair water bomber. More on that subject here: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=95522

[marv]

Hi ER0L,

your topic got me thinking and I started developing my own city scale:

• Cars are 6 wide or 5 wide and tend to get smaller towards the roof (4 wide)
  
• SUV´s are 6 wide - most of them fit two minfigs side by side
  
• Van´s are also 6 wide
  
• Trucks are 8 wide - most of them fit two minfigs side by side
  

This scale has worked out pretty well for me. All my LDD creations can be found here.

Kind regards

marv

[ER0L]

your topic got me thinking and I started developing my own city scale:

I'm glad it did. Guess it's still an important subject.

• Cars are 6 wide or 5 wide and tend to get smaller towards the roof (4 wide)
  
• SUV´s are 6 wide - most of them fit two minfigs side by side
  
• Van´s are also 6 wide
  
• Trucks are 8 wide - most of them fit two minfigs side by side
  

Sounds good. In my opinion 8w trucks are a bit large in comparison to trains but that depends on the vehicles you have in your town.

[ER0L]

Larger City Scale - vehicle width overview

On 7/2/2014 at 11:03 AM, ER0L said:

Will be continued. Some types of vehicles are still missing, small cars like a Mini or 2 CV would probably have a width of 5w+, and there will be some trucks, too.

 

On 11/24/2015 at 2:41 PM, ER0L said:

Sounds good. In my opinion 8w trucks are a bit large in comparison to trains but that depends on the vehicles you have in your town.

Hi all,

now that there's the above mentioned 5w Mini in 1/35 scale (coming from TLG which is a great thing) and quite a few other vehicles built in the meantime (8w trucks among them) I thought it might be a good idea to update the scale system I'm using for vehicle builds. 

The "Larger City Scale", as I call it, is an attempt to harmonize the different vehicle widths and scales used in Town/Minifig  surroundings into a single system, according to the following requirements:

• It must be possible to build all sorts (quite an important point) of vehicles in a more or less realistic manner, especially regarding proportions.
• The widths used should be able to reflect the different characters of cars (it's obvious that e. g. a full-size car/landyacht must look much more massive than, say, a pony car like a Mustang).
• It should be possible to combine vehicles and figs standing next to them.
• It should be possible to use the typical vehicle stuff in minifig scale/City surrounding like mudguards, windscreens, wheels and roofparts.
• The seating of minifigs is desirable but not a strict requirement. However, it should be possible to seat the figs side by side or - if there's only room for one fig - to avoid placing it in the center of the car which I can't help looks odd. 

Using a single scale throughout to fulfill these requirements proved to be quite difficult. Even if the figs are altered to a 1/40 scale (like I do with all the figs) it is a problem to build matching - and at the same time well-proportioned - cars - the more so if you want to place figs into them. Thus for passenger cars a 1/35 scale proved to be a good compromise. (It is quite interesting that there's at least one clone brick manufacturer - which I won't even name - who produces Lego compatible car models in an explicit scale of 1/35 which I regard as a confirmation of my approach nonetheless.)

On larger vehicles like buses or semis a 1/40 scale is no problem, trains are a bit smaller in scale (1/43, 9w) because at 1/40 which would mean a width of 10 studs (at least regarding US style) trains become hard to handle and tend to "dwarf" even buildings. Still they look as massive as they should.

The idea of a variable scale according to the absolute size of a structure (the larger the structure the smaller the scale) is not a new idea, of course. An example is the use of 1/43 vehicles on 1/48 model train layouts (especially in the US, if I'm right). A stadium in the Miniatur Wunderland in Hamburg is built in a much smaller scale than its surrounding because otherwise it would take too much room on the layout  - yet it's an impressive structure. 

Anyhow, it should be mentioned that all this is not an exact science, all categorizations are approximative, some decisions are rather determinations - e. g. for reasons of proportions you find the Ford GT40 in the 2m (7w) class though in reality it only measures 1,78 m. As you may spot there's still a conflict between a 1/40 step van in 7w and a 1/35 Hummer in 8w - step vans should probably be 8w throughout, too (I'm actually trying this). 

Overview of the width classes
(with some further information regarding the seating of minifigs and the windscreens used; probably I'll add some info about the wheelsizes used, too). 

You may spot that there's a great variety of shapes used,  exploiting all the possibilities of City, Speed Champions and even Lego Movie sets. Also, you will notice some differences between this and the earlier version, inter alia the missing "+-system" regarding mudguards - it didn't prove very helpful since the mudguard parts are used for different purposes: On trucks and also on vintage cars they often belong to larger structures and should therefore count regarding width whereas on passenger cars they rather can be understood as (quite disproportionate) wheel arches which in reality are much smaller. 

9w, 1/43
3 meter class (US trains)
Seating of minifigs: yes (though not in the locos)
Model depicted: GP15-1
 
8w, 1/40
2,5 meter class (semi trucks, buses)
Windscreens: 2x4w, custom
Seating of minifigs: partially yes (sbs)
Models depicted: Greyhound Bus, Semi Tractor, Seagrave Pumper

7w, 1/40
2,3 m class (step vans)
Windscreens: 6w
Seating of minifigs: no
Model depicted: Ice Cream Truck

8w, 1/35
2.2 m class (oversized utility vehicles)
Windscreens: custom
Seating of minifigs: no
Model depicted: Hummer H1
 
7w, 1/35
2 meter class (full-size vehicles, pickup trucks, vintage cars, super sports cars)
Windscreens: 6w (mostly)
Seating of minifigs: partially (sbs)
Models depicted: Dodge Ram, Chevy Impala, Rolls-Royce Phantom III, Ford GT40
  
6.8 w, 1/35
1,9 meter class (muscle cars)
Windscreens: 6w
Seating of minifigs: no
Model depicted: Dodge Charger
 
6w, 1/35
1,8 meter class (sports cars, convertibles and smaller passenger cars)
Windscreens: 5w 
Seating of minifigs: partially yes (sbs)
Models depicted: Mustang, Roadster
 
5w, 1/35
1,5 meter class (small cars)
Windscreens: 4w
Seating of minifigs: no
Model depicted: Mini

Thanks for reading all this stuff!

Edited March 24, 2019 by ER0L