Gomek Posted October 7, 2019 Posted October 7, 2019 2 hours ago, MAB said: I can see both sides - if they release an engine plus one carriage, then they sell the same number of engines and carriages but people that want more carriages either have to buy them from the secondary market or sell the excess engines on the secondary market (or build them themselves). Whereas if they release individual engines and carriages, then the engines might sell well but they are left with loads of carriages or the carriages might sell really well and they are left with too may engines. LEGO needs to try to balance the quantities manufactured / sales of both items to ensure that neither disappears before the other. I’m not sure the burden a faulty sales forecast should be put on consumers. Hopefully the life cycle of these products is long enough that they can adjust production according (i.e. make more engines vs. cars in the next quarter or vice-versa). Heck, they might even learn something. Do box cars sell better than passenger cars? What is the sales ratio between engines and cars? Do licensed train engines and cars sell better than generic ones? Anyways, I still think having options for non-bundled buildings and trains is better for consumers and will ultimately be better for Lego sales. Quote
Capparezza Posted October 7, 2019 Posted October 7, 2019 Oh dang... I'm way too old for that speed of communications, sorry that I didn't post back until now Some wonderful points made, on both the (if you will) pro and cons side of trains, whether PF or 9V or any other system. Let me just drop a word on some of the comments. and let me excuse myself first: I am not able to sit for too long or stare on a screen for more than 30 minutes, so please apologize if I selectively answer keypoints instead of going into lenghts. On 10/6/2019 at 4:54 PM, pooda said: Judging from your avatar, I knew you were going to disagree with my statement before I even clicked on the notification. Oh well, I hope that does not lead to prejudice on your side... I may be a bit biased when it comes to the 9V era, but I am also not blind to where LEGO was back in the days regarding Train sets. And that's not only 9V I'm talking about here, just roll back time a little more and have a look at the 12V and 4.5V line up. So many wonderful standalone sets and also very well crafted Train sets. But I'm not complaining. This year has been wonderful for us Train heads, having 5 sets available to us (60197, 60198, 71044, 70424 and supposedly 10254 again... I bet they don't let the opportunity slip to have the Christmas Train up for grabs once more). However, unfortunately you haven't given any clues why 9V is trash? Not even in your following comments... On 10/6/2019 at 4:54 PM, pooda said: You do know that the sets that you mentioned are also compatible with RC trains right? I was talking specifically about the train sets. Not the add ons. That makes it even worse. Add-ons could be usefull for every Train head, whether he is still stuck on 9V or 12V... or maybe already moved on to PUP. @OwenMistika Yeah, 3677 has a good colour scheme. I like that one. There is also 4564, if you're more in to yellow and like that style of locomotive. Red and White also goes well, if you take 4551 into account, which has a more unusual crocodile style. Regarding your comments on the size of sets or combination of different sets integrated into one: Some of the next comments to nail it down for me: 9 hours ago, MAB said: If you cannot buying individual rolling stock, and have to keep buying an engine every time you want another car, it gets very expensive. 4 hours ago, TeriXeri said: I can fully understand wanting just extra rolling stock, or seperate rail packages instead of full train sets with yet another electronic component. That's how I feel about some of the buildings in the City sets. 2 hours ago, Gomek said: I don't see the difference between buying an engine for $60, three cars for $20 each, and some track for $20, or buying a set for $140. If anything buying separately is part of the whole customizable concept that Lego is founded on. I just take a look at our local small ads and I can see several offers for single wagons for sets 60197 or 60051. Even single wagons for Cargo Train sets are present. So there definitely IS a market for that. And the want for rail packs like we had back in the times (only straights, only curves, not a weird mixup) comes up as often as the want of LEGO City friends for separately packed road baseplates (only straights, only curves, only crossings, not a weird mixup ). Funny thing, even that was present up until the 90ies... However. As much as I do hope for a full-fletched reboot of the Trains theme, I am pretty sure this won't happen. Trains (and "real" model trains) do not hold the same appeal as they did, kids are looking for more "digital" ways to fullfill their hobby needs. And LEGO seems to cater for that with their new Hidden Side theme. Quote
The Island Chronicles Posted October 7, 2019 Posted October 7, 2019 (edited) Just now, Capparezza said: Oh well, I hope that does not lead to prejudice on your side... I may be a bit biased when it comes to the 9V era, but I am also not blind to where LEGO was back in the days regarding Train sets. And that's not only 9V I'm talking about here, just roll back time a little more and have a look at the 12V and 4.5V line up. So many wonderful standalone sets and also very well crafted Train sets. Nope! No prejudism. Just preferences. That's all. Matter of fact, you seem to be a great person to talk to more often. No hard feelings? Gimmie a follow? Edited October 7, 2019 by pooda Quote
Gomek Posted October 7, 2019 Posted October 7, 2019 1 hour ago, OwenMistika said: Did you not read my point about inflation? Well, I’m just going to throw your pricing argument out the window! 80’s money is different to 2019 money! I'm very confused. Relative cost has nothing to do with inflation. In 2019 the cost of one big $200 set is four times the cost of a $50 set In 1980 the cost of one big $66 set is four times the cost of a $16.50 set The big set is still four times the cost of a small set that is 1/4 as big no matter what year it is (give or take a few bucks). I might get my kid the $50 set. He's not getting the big $200 set. I'll buy him a video game instead. My parents weren't getting me a big $66 dollar set. They'd get me some action figures instead. Quote
Capparezza Posted October 7, 2019 Posted October 7, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, pooda said: Nope! No prejudism. Just preferences. That's all. Matter of fact, you seem to be a great person to talk to more often. No hard feelings? Gimmie a follow? Well, thanks mate. And if it's a follow you'd like, I'm happy to give you one Just don't expect me to comment often. I'm an old fart that spends more time on washing and sorting LEGO or baking bread than being on the forums, lately. @Gomek I can see what you're up to. But unless LEGO is willing to slow down the pace and keep those sets longer on the shelves, I don't think they will follow that path. Edited October 7, 2019 by Capparezza uff, having a hard time with the forum software :D Quote
Gomek Posted October 7, 2019 Posted October 7, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Capparezza said: However. As much as I do hope for a full-fletched reboot of the Trains theme, I am pretty sure this won't happen. Trains (and "real" model trains) do not hold the same appeal as they did, kids are looking for more "digital" ways to fullfill their hobby needs. And LEGO seems to cater for that with their new Hidden Side theme. You'll be happy to hear I have a 12 year old nephew who would disagree. It's Lego trains all day every day for him. Of course he's graduated to buying custom instructions on the web and making bricklink orders, so I'm sure those dollars he's spending are not showing up on Lego's market research report. Edit: I don't think trains are ever going away. I'm not sure about a full fledged line, and I'm not sure if everyone will be happy with the "special" trains they come up with, but there will always be trains. Edited October 7, 2019 by Gomek Quote
Capparezza Posted October 7, 2019 Posted October 7, 2019 35 minutes ago, Gomek said: You'll be happy to hear I have a 12 year old nephew who would disagree. It's Lego trains all day every day for him. Of course he's graduated to buying custom instructions on the web and making bricklink orders, so I'm not sure those dollars he's spending are not showing up on Lego's market research report. Edit: I don't think trains are ever going away. I'm not sure about a full fledged line, and I'm not sure if everyone will be happy with the "special" trains they come up with, but there will always be trains. That's great to hear! Keep him going that way It's not the fear of a complete disappearance of Trains as a subtheme that's frightening me. It's the lack of love for it and the total obnoxiousness on how to market this theme correctly what's worrying me. I think there is still potential hidden, even with all those mobile and PC games and other digital gadgets, if it's just done right... Just take a look at what is happening in the community: train automation software, various different curve radii either homebrewn on 3D printers or professionally made, the PFx brick, the "rebirth" of the monorail. Just a few projects that are rapidly progressing our LEGO trains hobby. Quote
Gomek Posted October 7, 2019 Posted October 7, 2019 16 minutes ago, Capparezza said: That's great to hear! Keep him going that way It's not the fear of a complete disappearance of Trains as a subtheme that's frightening me. It's the lack of love for it and the total obnoxiousness on how to market this theme correctly what's worrying me. I think there is still potential hidden, even with all those mobile and PC games and other digital gadgets, if it's just done right... Just take a look at what is happening in the community: train automation software, various different curve radii either homebrewn on 3D printers or professionally made, the PFx brick, the "rebirth" of the monorail. Just a few projects that are rapidly progressing our LEGO trains hobby. Ironically, Hidden side, which is supposed to be based in 'tech' has a train set. Now, for me, I was always into realistic trains (as is my nephew) and "Special trains" were the cheap things you got out of the HO Shop Rite gift set. So I'm not sure the hidden side train set is something I (or you) would consider "Done right". But really, I don't think trains are going to suffer from the digital revolution any more (or less) than Lego in general. And personally, I always see it a 360 degree promotion, while our kids get more digital, the more it will just inspire things like the OverWatch sets, Minecraft sets and maybe down the road some game will feature a realistic train that will need to be made. Oh, and yes, my nephew has also gotten into the 'home brew' 3D printed track. Again, likely not showing up in Lego's sales research, but he's way into it, and in a couple years when he gets a job, he'll have a disposable income as well. I'm sure the software is the next thing he'll get into. Quote
MAB Posted October 8, 2019 Posted October 8, 2019 13 hours ago, Gomek said: I’m not sure the burden a faulty sales forecast should be put on consumers. Hopefully the life cycle of these products is long enough that they can adjust production according (i.e. make more engines vs. cars in the next quarter or vice-versa). Heck, they might even learn something. Do box cars sell better than passenger cars? What is the sales ratio between engines and cars? Do licensed train engines and cars sell better than generic ones? I totally agree, but it seems that is not the way LEGO works these days. It would be great to have trains as a rolling theme (pun intended!) where you could buy different engines and different carriages as you see fit. More worrying would be them asking the questions: do box cars and passenger cars sell worse than City / Nexo Knights / Ninjago / Chima / other in-house themes depending on era. We have had trains relatively recently outside of train sets: so things like Hidden Side, Lone Ranger, Toy Story, Monster Fighters. At least they still provide parts to train fans. 12 hours ago, Capparezza said: Just take a look at what is happening in the community: train automation software, various different curve radii either homebrewn on 3D printers or professionally made, the PFx brick, the "rebirth" of the monorail. Just a few projects that are rapidly progressing our LEGO trains hobby. These are all incredibly small things within the community though. Are they expanding the community? That is what is really needed. It is a shame, as when kids see large displays they usually love it. Quote
Capparezza Posted October 8, 2019 Posted October 8, 2019 12 hours ago, MAB said: These are all incredibly small things within the community though. Are they expanding the community? That is what is really needed. It is a shame, as when kids see large displays they usually love it. I do think those projects broaden the possible audience. Those projects get publicity on different channels which hadn't have any interest and/or relation to Train stuff until now. At least that's what I can see around here in middle europe. I have to admit that I don't know how these projects fare outside of Europe... It's not hard to see why kids do like large displays, it's the sheer size of it. And that's maybe the biggest drawback when you got LEGO trains as your hobby: You need a rather big house or flat if you want to setup a serious layout where you can do some shunting and throw your switches. Not everyone likes to attend meetings or has time to do so, let alone the budget and material which is needed. Quote
MAB Posted October 9, 2019 Posted October 9, 2019 I think the problem with the third party stuff is that if you cannot get LEGO trains (from LEGO), then extensions to LEGO trains are not going to draw you in. For existing fans, they are fine. For getting new ones, less so. Quote
Capparezza Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 (edited) On 10/9/2019 at 10:24 AM, MAB said: I think the problem with the third party stuff is that if you cannot get LEGO trains (from LEGO), then extensions to LEGO trains are not going to draw you in. For existing fans, they are fine. For getting new ones, less so. But we did get a lot of decent trains recently. Most of them are still on sale and the christmas train will surely come back this year around. So I can't complain with that. It's just that there is nothing besides trains that is available as a single set, not even a darn Train station or a sole wagon... Edited October 14, 2019 by Capparezza Quote
The Island Chronicles Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 Just now, Capparezza said: It's just that there is nothing besides trains that is available as a single set, not even a darn Train station or a sole wagon... I have to agree there. I would love to see train cars such as a mail car, a jail car and a see saw car and buildings such as stations, sheds, workshops and signal boxes. Quote
Capparezza Posted October 14, 2019 Posted October 14, 2019 Take a look at time mark 14:04 here... That company is a local player here in Germany, I wonder what's stopping TLC from releasing at least a fraction of it. The only thing stopping me from buying any of these is because they are not made from genuine LEGO bricks. God, I'm lamenting, ain't I? Better I stop myself right now. I'm so sorry Quote
Asajki Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 On 10/1/2019 at 6:41 PM, Lego David said: To tie into the City discussion, I would personally like to see them revisit World City. I'm gonna make a bold statement: World City is the worst Lego theme ever made All the minifigures have crazy pupils and look like they've eaten too much sugar, especially https://brickset.com/minifigs/trn002/orange-vest-with-safety-stripes-blue-legs-beard-stubble-red-construction-helmet him, has he been hanging around with Order Of The Pheonix Hermione and Ron? It also feels like it's a joke on the classic town line, with it's dark and relatively edgy colouring, unlike town, very few WC figures are smiling, they look really ticked off, some of the heads were reused in City but made better Oh reboot themes? Tiny Turbos probably, as much as Power Miners and Bionicle are some of my favourite themes, they concluded well enough Quote
The Island Chronicles Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 22 minutes ago, Asajki said: I'm gonna make a bold statement: World City is the worst Lego theme ever made All the minifigures have crazy pupils and look like they've eaten too much sugar, especially https://brickset.com/minifigs/trn002/orange-vest-with-safety-stripes-blue-legs-beard-stubble-red-construction-helmet him, has he been hanging around with Order Of The Pheonix Hermione and Ron? It also feels like it's a joke on the classic town line, with it's dark and relatively edgy colouring, unlike town, very few WC figures are smiling, they look really ticked off, some of the heads were reused in City but made better LOL! You've got more balls than I do. I wanted to say that exact same thing. But people on this forum are too dog on sensitive. I remember someone on this forum bringing up the Lego Apologists Corp or LAC for short. These guys will swoop in and basically defend everything that Lego does, especially when you don't like it. I see you're a new member. I hope you're ready to face heat. Quote
Asajki Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 1 minute ago, pooda said: LOL! You've got more balls than I do. I wanted to say that exact same thing. But people on this forum are too dog on sensitive. I remember someone on this forum bringing up the Lego Apologists Corp or LAC for short. These guys will swoop in and basically defend everything that Lego does, especially when you don't like it. I see you're a new member. I hope you're ready to face heat. Jack Stone and Galidor had charm though, I'm gonna sound like a 'LAC' but they were aimed for different audiences, Galidor had the balls to do something new, Jack Stone had the balls to do something new, Jack Stone its alright with other figures, you just can't take him apart Point is: Galidor and Jack Stone weren't trying to be old themes, WC was trying too hard to be Town and failed miserably, it was so edgy it makes the Piraka Rap feel cool and calm Quote
The Island Chronicles Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 Just now, Asajki said: Jack Stone and Galidor had charm though, I'm gonna sound like a 'LAC' but they were aimed for different audiences, Galidor had the balls to do something new, Jack Stone had the balls to do something new, Jack Stone its alright with other figures, you just can't take him apart Point is: Galidor and Jack Stone weren't trying to be old themes, WC was trying too hard to be Town and failed miserably, it was so edgy it makes the Piraka Rap feel cool and calm Jack Stone wasn't actually that bad. Galidor was kinda neat as well. Quote
Asajki Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, pooda said: Jack Stone wasn't actually that bad. Galidor was kinda neat as well. Agreed, I have a couple of both, holding Jack now, he doesn't look like he's drunk coffee for the first time, I told my friend Owen what I believed on Lego, that 2005-2012 is definitely the best era for Lego city, really just Lego in general To stay on topic, I'd consider bringing Jack Back as sort of a Lego Juniors Adventurer/Superhero, kinda like Max except more prominent Edited October 29, 2019 by Asajki Quote
The Island Chronicles Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Asajki said: Agreed, I have a couple of both, holding Jack now, he doesn't look like he's drunk coffee for the first time, I told my friend Owen what I believed on Lego, that 2005-2012 is definitely the best era for Lego city, really just Lego in general To stay on topic, I'd consider bringing Jack Back as sort of a Lego Juniors Adventurer/Superhero, kinda like Max except more prominent Haha Haha! I actually remember something. When I got my first Jack Stone sets, I thought that was gonna be the thing with Lego people from now on. Creator had some people similar to Jack Stone at one point. But it was for a short amount of time. Edited October 29, 2019 by pooda Quote
Asajki Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, pooda said: Haha Haha! I actually remember something. When I got my first Jack Stone sets, I thought that was gonna be the thing with Lego people from now on. Creator had some people similar to Jack Stone at one point. But it was for a short amount of time. I had a creator one too! My favouite thing about them was how well they scaled with minifgiure tools Edited October 29, 2019 by Asajki Quote
The Island Chronicles Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, Asajki said: I had a creator one too! My favouite thing about them was how well they scaled with minifgiure tools In all honesty, I'm glad it turned out to be a flop. Could you imagine all lego people looking like Jack Stone because I couldn't. I think I like minifigures better. Quote
Asajki Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 Just now, pooda said: In all honesty, I'm glad it turned out to be a flop. Could you imagine all lego people looking like Jack Stone because I couldn't. I think I like minifigures better. I agree too tbh, the minifigure bodies are the best part of WC (better than that Police Tank in the station, seriouly Bjarke, you designed the Death Star!) Quote
MAB Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 49 minutes ago, Asajki said: All the minifigures have crazy pupils and look like they've eaten too much sugar, especially https://brickset.com/minifigs/trn002/orange-vest-with-safety-stripes-blue-legs-beard-stubble-red-construction-helmet him, has he been hanging around with Order Of The Pheonix Hermione and Ron? It also feels like it's a joke on the classic town line, with it's dark and relatively edgy colouring, unlike town, very few WC figures are smiling, they look really ticked off, some of the heads were reused in City but made better I think there have been worse minifigure heads, especially in the difficult years between going from the classic smiley to more modern designs. Take divers for example ... Ones with big pupil-less eyes with really thick eyebrows and moustaches, weird female eyes that look lifeless, one that as a mic that has his ears in a strange place, sunglasses that imply eyes are too close together, the introduction of some heads with pupils that are yellow and some very strange stubble ... Quote
TeriXeri Posted October 29, 2019 Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, MAB said: Ones with big pupil-less eyes with really thick eyebrows and moustaches I had 2 of those exact figures from divers set 6559 and 2 more figures using this head in a Train/Spaceport set, and they looked a lot better then this, in this particular picture example it's clearly a printing error of too much ink being applied. It's supposed to look like this : Might not be the most amazing face, but still better then the over-printed one. Edited October 29, 2019 by TeriXeri Quote
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