Which Themes Deserve a Reboot?

[icm]

Gee, I actually like all those heads a lot.  It might be just because I grew up with them, but for me they elegantly invoke role and character without becoming so detailed that the little faces are permanently fixed in one fleeting emotion.

[Asajki]

11 minutes ago, MAB said:

I think there have been worse minifigure heads, especially in the difficult years between going from the classic smiley to more modern designs.

Take divers for example ...

Ones with big pupil-less eyes with really thick eyebrows and moustaches, weird female eyes that look lifeless, one that as a mic that has his ears in a strange place, sunglasses that imply eyes are too close together, the introduction of some heads with pupils that are yellow and some very strange stubble ...

Those heads work as people though, the world city guys just look out of it

[MAB]

Although this is one of the oddest in-betweener heads ... with freckles across the nose space where the nose should be.

I've seen a couple of these in used lots where someone has drawn the nose on, dot-to-dot style.

 

[Asajki]

6 minutes ago, MAB said:

Although this is one of the oddest in-betweener heads ... with freckles across the nose space where the nose should be.

I've seen a couple of these in used lots where someone has drawn the nose on, dot-to-dot style.

 

Those freckles don't even compare to this

[TeriXeri]

12 minutes ago, MAB said:

Although this is one of the oddest in-betweener heads ... with freckles across the nose space where the nose should be.

I don't find that one odd, but that's likely has to do with having many Aaron figures (that use the same double-sided head), using this same style of freckle-nose.
Nexo Knights was the theme that got me back into LEGO after 16 years.

Some of the early 2000s figures certainly look a lot more weird/creepy/angry etc, but I also have no nostalgia to most of those as I was in "dark age" from around 2001-2015, Nexo Knights came out 2016.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by TeriXeri

[MAB]

13 hours ago, TeriXeri said:

I don't find that one odd, but that's likely has to do with having many Aaron figures (that use the same double-sided head), using this same style of freckle-nose.

 

 

I guess we like what we get used to, and get used to what we like.

 

After all, a very odd head is this one:

It just doesn't look right - because it actually has a nose like real people!

[009]

Classic Castle ~~!

[Aanchir]

On 10/29/2019 at 3:04 PM, pooda said:

LOL! You've got more balls than I do. I wanted to say that exact same thing. But people on this forum are too dog on sensitive. I remember someone on this forum bringing up the Lego Apologists Corp or LAC for short. These guys will swoop in and basically defend everything that Lego does, especially when you don't like it. I see you're a new member. I hope you're ready to face heat. 

Honestly? When users here generalize people who disagree with them as a "LEGO Apologist Corp" or anything to that effect, I've found they're usually only talking about people who defend CURRENT sets/themes/subthemes.

From my experience, if you criticize retired themes or subthemes like Castle, Pirates, Islanders, Western, Space, Farm, Fabuland, etc, or even suggest that other more current themes can have similar value or appeal, then that makes people treat you like MORE of an apologist, not less. Whereas sugar-coated praise of retired themes or melodramatic lamentation that they're not around anymore is just the kind of healthy opinion that "apologists" supposedly want to silence.

In reality, it's totally OK to like, dislike, or be indifferent any themes/sets/subthemes. And I don't think stereotypes and misrepresentations like "LEGO apologist corp" do anything but discourage people from sharing their perspective by making sound like there can only be two sides in any debate, and that whoever doesn't share your opinion on a LEGO theme is "the enemy".

Anyway, I agree that World City isn't all that great in hindsight. Most of its strongest attributes were how it began introducing more modern and streamlined vehicles and more detailed figure designs than had been the norm in the Town theme, and all of that is stuff that LEGO City has continued to improve on since then.

Also, I feel like World City had an even more excessive focus on emergency services than City does, with hardly any civilian-focused sets or subthemes. What's more, its police minifigure and vehicle designs felt more aggressive, militaristic, and invasive than I'm really comfortable with, considering that in the United States and many other countries, the militarization of police departments is a real and often deadly problem. I mean, 7035 looks downright terrifying compared to pretty much any City police station, particularly with a "police ATV" that resembles a tank.

There's definitely stuff in the past that LEGO could use as inspiration for the future of the City theme, but the World City theme didn't have a whole lot of great examples IMO.

[The Island Chronicles]

24 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

Also, I feel like World City had an even more excessive focus on emergency services than City does, with hardly any civilian-focused sets or subthemes. 

Well tbh, you can in a way say that same thing about today's Lego City. Though the focus is not only on heavily on emergency, but also science. I mean.....Yes, the kiddies and the subject of danger and crime have a good relationship.

But.....I would like to see a year when Lego focuses only on civilian based sets for City like the doughnut shop opening, or the capital or the bus station. City has proven get success with sets like these. Why do you think they keep making them? 

Edited October 31, 2019 by pooda

[The Island Chronicles]

2 hours ago, Aanchir said:

When users here generalize people who disagree with them as a "LEGO Apologist Corp" or anything to that effect, I've found they're usually only talking about people who defend CURRENT sets/themes/subthemes.

These guys that I speak of don't just defend the current state of City. But they will also disappoint you and crush your hopes and dreams when it comes to non-police or non-explorers subthemes that you want to see in City. They claim that they aren't doing any harm, when in fact they are deliberately doing it. I really would suggest that you not follow in their footsteps.

I call these the City Apologists Corp.

Edited October 31, 2019 by pooda

[MAB]

9 hours ago, pooda said:

Well tbh, you can in a way say that same thing about today's Lego City. Though the focus is not only on heavily on emergency, but also science. I mean.....Yes, the kiddies and the subject of danger and crime have a good relationship.

But.....I would like to see a year when Lego focuses only on civilian based sets for City like the doughnut shop opening, or the capital or the bus station. City has proven get success with sets like these. Why do you think they keep making them? 

Why focus only on civilian? Surely focusing only on one particular aspect such as shops is just as bad as focusing only on emergency. If there are only shops on the shelves, what are people going to buy if their kid wants an emergency vehicle? If City has proven successes with civilian based sets and they keep making them, then they don't need to focus only on them. They are doing well as part of a mixed line-up. If they focus only on them for one year, making more similar sets on the same theme then they are likely to perform less well on average.

[The Island Chronicles]

@Asajki That comment is an example of what the City Apologist Group does. These guys aren't easy to deal with. I'll show you how to deal with them. 

@MAB Well....easy A. They'll just buy the emergency based sets from the previous year. Simple as that. Lego is a multi-billion dollar business. They can afford to do things like that with their top themes. They still get paid for sets from the previous year that they are still making. Its not going to cause any trouble financially. Unless there is a piece of the payment system that I don't know about. 

Also when I say civilian based sets, I also mean sets that don't go under a particular subtheme. Like set 60204. It was just put out there. It was what I call an "Original" city set. Same with 60200, 60154 and 60169. 

So yeah....it wouldn't be just shops. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by pooda

[MAB]

10 minutes ago, pooda said:

@Aanchir That's an example of City Apologism.

Why is it apologism? I am not an apologist for LEGO. However, I do support common sense.

I just cannot see the point of City doing ONLY civilian based sets for an entire year. Take a look at 2019. There are about 32 or 33 sets in the City range, excluding smaller polybags and so on. Within that there are quite a few civilian sets. Excluding anything that is emergency or space, we have:

So just over one third of the output of City for 2019 is civilian - although some of the emergency and space sets also cover civilian aspects too.

And remember as well that there are Modulars which are civilian, plus sets in Creator that cover similar material, plus probably another 15-20 civilian sets in the Friends range.

I think it would be completely stupid for them to have NO emergency and NO themed sub-theme (like space this year) and concentrate ONLY on civilian based sets covering shops and transport in a theme that is mainly still targeted towards boys. They could put out 30+ sets, all based ONLY on civilian themes. And they would compete with each other. The size of the market for them would be similar to the size of the market for the civilian sets of 2019. On average, each would sell less. They would lose the sales of emergency and the themed sets, which might go to other areas of LEGO, or might go to other brands.

Alternatively they could focus ONLY on civilian sets by just cutting out all the emergency and the sub-theme, and do just a smaller range of City sets. Killing off police, emergency, science, space, explorers, etc as you seem to want won't mean you get more civilian City.

 

None of this is an excuse or an apology as to why LEGO don't or won't do ONLY civilian sets for a whole year in City, it is based solely on common sense, the "don't put all your eggs in one basket" type common sense.

 

12 hours ago, pooda said:

City has proven get success with sets like these. Why do you think they keep making them? 

Why do you think they keep making emergency sets?

Surely your own language here is also that of your City Apologists Corp. If saying they make emergency sets because emergency sets sell makes someone an apoologist for LEGO, then saying they make civilian sets such as the Donut Shop or Bus Station because they sell is also the act of an apologist.

[The Island Chronicles]

4 minutes ago, MAB said:

Surely your own language here is also that of your City Apologists Corp.

I'm not an apologist because I DON'T defend the current state. Like I said, its not going to do any harm to the company. Unless its that particular team that works on those particular sets that get paid for that one thing....it won't do any financial damage. If you've got an issue with me not supporting the current state of City, you can easily mute me and pay me no mind. But instead you feel the need for confrontation and arguments. 

[MAB]

12 minutes ago, pooda said:

But instead you feel the need for confrontation and arguments. 

Who is it that is calling other people apologists?

 

 

Wanting to stop what other people enjoy is not going to get you more of what you want. If you don't like emergency sets or explorers sets or science or space sets in City, then simply don't buy them. The fact that they exist is not stopping civilian sets being produced.

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by MAB

[The Island Chronicles]

7 minutes ago, MAB said:

Wanting to stop what other people enjoy is not going to get you more of what you want.

Well then, you might as well request this this forum here gets removed. 

7 minutes ago, MAB said:

If you don't like emergency sets or explorers sets or science or space sets in City, then simply don't buy them. The fact that they exist is not stopping civilian sets being produced.

Except...it kinda is.... Lego only can produce a certain amount of bricks per year. Instead of making subthemes that are different, they use them to make more police subthemes and more explorers subthemes. 

7 minutes ago, MAB said:

Who is it that is calling other people apologists?

That isn't confrontation. I didn't even say your name, did I? So don't throw accusations. I didn't call you an apologist. I said your comment was what an apologistic. There is a difference between getting on that side and actually being one of those people. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by pooda

[MAB]

30 minutes ago, pooda said:

That isn't confrontation. I didn't even say your name, did I? So don't throw accusations. I didn't call you an apologist. I said your comment was what an apologistic. There is a difference between getting on that side and actually being one of those people. 

You have edited your comment. And I didn't write that you did call me an apologist. I implied that you were calling other people apologists, which you are by using terms such as City Apologist Group and City Apologism.

30 minutes ago, pooda said:

Except...it kinda is.... Lego only can produce a certain amount of bricks per year. Instead of making subthemes that are different, they use them to make more police subthemes and more explorers subthemes.

It isn't. If they stop making police do you really think they are going to make more shops within City? They already have sets in City that are shops and transport, and plenty of other shops in Friends, so why make more of them? They are already catering for that market. A donut shop doesn't cater for the kid that wants a police car. If they lose the market for the kids that want police cars they have to find more customers to replace them.

 

But also think about the logic of your comment. If they can only make a certain number of bricks per year (and a certain percentage is devoted to City) and they are selling all those bricks by doing what they are currently doing, then why suddenly stop doing all police plus other sub-themes sets? They sell, and they are a proven seller, year after year. If they did cut out all police and other sub-themes and did only civilian sets, what possible benefit is there? The absolute best they could do is sell all their bricks, which is what they are currently doing by selling a mixture of sets within City. Whereas there is a risk if they cannot sell three times as many civilian City sets as they have been selling in the past.

Your argument is no different to those saying they should stop licensed sets to concentrate on in-house themes or stop City to make more Star Wars, or stop Star Wars to make more City. Stopping one area does not guarantee higher sales in another.

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by MAB

[The Island Chronicles]

16 minutes ago, MAB said:

It isn't. If they stop making police do you really think they are going to make more shops within City?

Maybe not shops! But subthemes that could still appear to kids, but don't involve police or discovery.  Like construction or garage or airport or a subtheme centered around the bus system. 

I don't want them to stop making police. I just don't wanna see a darn police theme or explorers theme every single year. It gets boring. Better yet, that's exactly what I think - since you asked all those weeks ago. I think City SHOULD stay within the city limits and cut the extra police themes. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by pooda

[ShaydDeGrai]

With respect to the last several posts (above) I think we're getting a little off-topic here in regard to the nominal question.  People, of course, are free to embrace whatever opinions they hold dear.  Anyone who disagrees with your opinion is not wrong, they just hold different opinions.  Holding a differing opinion should not be construed as a personal affront or attack; we might like to think that we are "right" and that "everyone" agrees with us except that one dissenter, but chances are life just doesn't work that way. 

Certain facts, however, are less open to interpretation:  

1) The Lego Company is in the business of selling toys - Sometimes they have good ideas, sometimes they have terrible ideas, but as far as a business model is concerned the quality of an idea is measured by its immediate profitability and its contribution to long term brand reputation. OUR opinions only matter as far as they impact TLG's bottom line.

2) Their primary customers are kids, AFOLs are just a sliver of their market by comparison - they consult us, support us and make an effort to keep us happy because we help advertise the brand, but our buying power pales by comparison to the parents and grandparents of half a billion kids.  

3) Most kids outgrow Lego, so TLG's primary audience has high turnover and a short memory - _WE_ might recall that subject matter X has been done three times over and think that the latest rehash is boring and repetitive, but at any given time, for the vast majority of Lego consumers this "rehash" might be their first opportunity to get "subject X".

4) There are practical limits as to how many kits and new parts TLG can keep in production at one time.  Selecting what gets made is often a question of managing risk rather than evaluating merits of new ideas.  For most companies, TLG included, this usually translates to "mass produce the stuff that is guaranteed to sell, explore/experiment, in small scale on the side"  I might be sick of Snowspeeders and A-Wings, someone else might be tired of police cars and fire engines, but those kits are being produced because they sell and the revenue they generate allows the company to dabble in garbage trucks, Saturn Vs and houseboats.  Personally, I was never a fan of Bionicle, but if it hadn't been for the enormous success of that theme (with an assist from Lego SW), the Lego Group might not have survived the late 1990's; at the time, I didn't like Bionicle taking over 75% of Lego shelf space at my local Toys R Us (and I'm sure I complained about it to anyone who would listen - which I'm pretty sure was only my cat), but in hindsight, I'm glad they did, because ultimately TLG survived and eventually they embraced themes and kits that I really did care about.

It's nice to think that our opinions matter and that our history and anecdotal experience with the product translates to guiding wisdom for the brand, but at the end of the day TLG has professionals for that (and yes, sometimes even professionals make mistakes) but armchair quarterbacking, bandying words like "apologist", and making a simple expression of an opinion sound like the opening volley of a flame war serves neither the best interests of the posters nor the community as a whole.  Individually, there are things we like, things we hate, and things we just really don't care about, but collectively, we all share one passion and that commonality should not be trivialized even when our opinions differ.

NOW BACK TO THE O.P. QUESTION:  I would love to see a neo-EXOFORCE.  Lego has come so far in parts and sanctioned building techniques since those early Mechs hit the shelves.  Between the examples they've done in recent years for Ninjago and the assorted Hulkbuster  variations, I've got to believe that an ExoForce revival would yield some awesome models.  The premise was simple and clean, the subject matter allows for all sorts of inspiration from magna and amine without being too tightly coupled to any given IP and the theme had enough breadth to support a full line from low cost entry kits and polybags to high end flagship models.  Maybe there's too much overlap with what Ninjago has become in recent years, but I bet, with a little planning and careful timing, they could make it work without cannibalizing the market.

 

[TeriXeri]

There are a lot of civliian sets within City/Creator 3-in-1/Friends and even Hidden Side has civilian elements (Diner/Fishing Boat/School/Train)

I don't think that Police, Fire or Explorer themes replace other sets.

Even in the far away past, we had other subthemes of Town like ResQ and Divers (Brickset even labels them as subthemes)

Does that make me an apologist?

[The Island Chronicles]

10 minutes ago, ShaydDeGrai said:

With respect to the last several posts (above) I think we're getting a little off-topic here in regard to the nominal question.  People, of course, are free to embrace whatever opinions they hold dear.  Anyone who disagrees with your opinion is not wrong, they just hold different opinions.  Holding a differing opinion should not be construed as a personal affront or attack; we might like to think that we are "right" and that "everyone" agrees with us except that one dissenter, but chances are life just doesn't work that way. 

Very true! But you can't deliberately crush another's hopes and dreams for Lego. 

5 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

There are a lot of civliian sets within City/Creator 3-in-1/Friends and even Hidden Side has civilian elements (Diner/Fishing Boat/School/Train)

I don't think that Police, Fire or Explorer themes replace other sets.

Even in the far away past, we had other subthemes of Town like ResQ and Divers (Brickset even labels them as subthemes)

Does that make me an apologist?

Listen! I just want to see something different for once. Ok? 

[TeriXeri]

30 minutes ago, pooda said:

Listen! I just want to see something different for once. Ok? 

I think it's hard to know what 2020 brings so far as a whole, I know we get the 3-yearly "City-Police" Reboot in 2020, which is expected (6 Police sets + 2 more Fire sets)

We do get an Icecream truck which is nice as it doubles as a vehicle and a shop.

- Street Sweeper and Construction Excavator 

Summer 2020 has a lot of sets codenamed in/out, which could be a lot of different things in the literal sense : 

- Airport subtheme (Cargo and passengers go in/out) , and we are 4 years since the 2016 Airport.

- Harbor subtheme (Cargo goes in/out)

- Racing/Pit-Stop subtheme ? (But winter already has Race Car Duel / Gas Station / Tuning Workshop )

- Safari Offroader might be an indication for a Safari exploration theme which would be a first for LEGO, but not unusual with the amount Big Cats we've gotten in recent subthemes like Jungle, Arctic (sabertooth) and Mountain (Cougar)

I still think Summer 2020 will be an interesting time for City.

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by TeriXeri

[The Island Chronicles]

2 minutes ago, TeriXeri said:

I think it's hard to know what 2020 brings so far as a whole, I know we get the 3-yearly "City-Police" Reboot in 2020, which is expected (6 Police sets + 2 more Fire sets)

We do get an Icecream truck which is nice as it doubles as a vehicle and a shop.

- Street Sweeper and Construction Excavator 

Summer 2020 has a lot of sets codenamed in/out, which could be a lot of different things in the literal sense : 

- Airport subtheme (Cargo and passengers go in/out) , and we are 4 years since the 2016 Airport.

- Harbor subtheme (Cargo goes in/out)

- Racing/Pit-Stop subtheme ? (But winter already has Race Car Duel / Gas Station / Tuning Workshop )

- Safari Offroader might be an indication for a Safari exploration theme which would be a first for LEGO, but not unusual with the amount Big Cats we've gotten in recent subthemes like Jungle, Arctic (sabertooth) and Mountain (Cougar)

I still think Summer 2020 will be an interesting time for City.

 

 

2020 is impressing me so far. Its 2021 that needs to impress me. I hope summer 2020 is also a transit system subtheme. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by pooda

[TeriXeri]

2 minutes ago, pooda said:

2020 is impressing me so far. Its 2021 that needs to impress me. I hope summer 2020 is also a transit system subtheme. 

They actually just put the 60154 bus in the last City Magazine comic, recolored blue, which I think is interesting. 

I know that set officially retired around a year ago, but I could also use a new Bus set like that.

[The Island Chronicles]

1 minute ago, TeriXeri said:

They actually just put the 60154 bus in the last City Magazine comic, recolored blue, which I think is interesting. 

I know that set officially retired around a year ago, but I could also use a new Bus set like that.

Yeah! I would like the buses to be blue. Yellow sends them too much into the school bus zone. Though I do hope that one of the unrevealed great vehicles is a school bus.