Female minifigures - do we need the hourglass torso and make up?

[williejm]

This article raises a lot of concerns I have with female minifigure representation. Yay @ more females, Boo@ too much narrow manifestation of gender specificity

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/16/lego-female-scientists-waistlines_n_5590560.html

It's a play issue as much as it is a representation one, in that 'femaled' hourglass torsos have a more limited use, but it's also about what makes it female. Old cartoons suggest blush cheeks, big eyelashes and a bow in the hair made any character female. Even Chima figures which are anthropomorphised animals have 'hourglass' figures for females, the Collectable Minifig Alien Queen had lipstick to go with her see-through head, and don't even get me started on the 'Lady Robot' and her breast dials...

[Wardancer]

Feminists will always find something to complain because otherwise their legitimation would cease to exist.

If portraing a female fig with female features is a narrow manifestation of gender specifity, then the act defining something must be a terrible sin because it means narrowing and demarcating, hence excluding normatively.

This whole discourse is getting so dull, I hope it will disappear into the tiny academic elite circles it emanated from.

[williejm]

Feminists will always find something to complain because otherwise their legitimation would cease to exist.

Damn feminists and their unreasonable minority agenda, eh? *bangs head off desk*

[Faefrost]

And once again, it's a small number of "scientists" who failed to do any research. Or ask or determine what the target audience. The small children, in particular little girls, actually look for or prefer in their toys. Which amazingly is something that Lego does research intensively. The "scientist" in this article just assumes her opinion is correct, without any thought, any reflection or any actual data. Kind of telling that, no?

[flailx]

LEGO mini figures are an abstraction of the human form. A simplification. As an abstraction, they must portray the human form with broad strokes. Thus, a female face has lipstick and maybe eyelashes. What is your remedy for this "narrow manifestation of gender specificity"? Remove the lipstick, eyelashes and you have...a male face. Now, I realize many women do not wear makeup and appear fully feminine, but how do you portray that with the abstraction of the LEGO face. You can pick up any female head (lipstick, eyelashes) and know it's female even without a "female" hair piece. But you know what's great about LEGO? It's just bricks. So you can put that "female" hair on a bearded head to make a barbarian. You can put a "male" hair on a female head and now she has a pixie cut. You can take a "male" head and put it on a female torso and now it's a woman who doesn't wear makeup. Actually, LEGO has now produced a wide selection of female faces; faces that definitely have a feminine appearance, but some have a lot of "makeup" and some have very little. With the number of hairpieces and torsos available, you can really make just about anyone.

The outrage over this is, quite honestly, pathetic.

Edited July 16, 2014 by flailx

[autorazr]

I complain about this all the time, almost as often as I complain about feminists. I dont think this is a feminist issue, its a creativity issue. I have always hated printed on curves and breasts because a lego body without any curves is not gender specific, it could be used for a man or a woman. As someone who makes a lot of custom purist minifigures, I switch the assumed gender roles of a lot of hair pieces, torsos, faces whatever. When lego makes a torso with obvious breasts and hips, it limits my use of that part to only "beautiful" or "sexy" or "fit" lady characters. It is in my opinion, sexist to portray women (who have less representation anyway) as having perfect curves. I don't perceive the heads as "always wearing makeup" as much as they are women, they have fuller lips. It is kind of a necessary distinction, kind of like needing heads with beards and those being exclusively male. I guess what I'm saying is, we never needed gender specific torsos, cause thats suggesting a standard body type (when the standard should just be "square" or "blocky" this is lego after all), but I dont mind the heads being gendered in the way that they are (we could go back to the ambivalent smiley face heads if people have a problem with that).

[Leewan]

Have the people who complain about female minifigs / torsos ever looked at a male torso (59 more examples here) ? Oh gosh ! A muscular man ! So sexist ! So wrong !

This is getting ridiculous...

Edited July 16, 2014 by Leewan

[autorazr]

Have the people who complain about female minifigs / torsos ever looked at a male torso (59 more examples here) ? Oh gosh ! A muscular man ! So sexist ! So wrong !

This is getting ridiculous...

Oh I forgot about those, they are just as limiting and annoying to me. Its a little different though, there are representations of fat male torsos and varying degrees of buffness. Still, I would love a superman torso without muscles that I could use to make a supergirl or something like that.

Edited July 16, 2014 by autorazr

[Leewan]

Its a little different though, there are representations of fat male torsos and varying degrees of buffness.

Right, but there aren't as many fat torsos as muscular torsos. In fact, I can only think of Homer Simpson and the Sumo Wrestler from the CMF S3. But it's still nice to have some to "counterbalance" all those six packs.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Leewan

[dr_spock]

Lets go back to the simplier days of the standard grin head and gender distingushed by hair.

[autorazr]

Lets go back to the simplier days of the standard grin head and gender distingushed by hair.

yes please.

[badbob001]

I am so overwhelmed with rage right now...

...why aren't the arms the same length?

[autorazr]

I am so overwhelmed with rage right now...

...why aren't the arms the same length?

they are, its an optical illusion.

[fred67]

No. Some women actually have hourglass figures, some don't. Some female minifigures have hourglass figures, some don't. I'm failing to see the problem.

Are we trying to recreate "real" scenes in MOCs, or pushing an agenda?

Edited July 16, 2014 by fred67

[autorazr]

No. Some women actually have hourglass figures, some don't. Some female minifigures have hourglass figures, some don't. I'm failing to see the problem.

Are we trying to recreate "real" scenes in MOCs, or pushing an agenda?

I'm pushing an agenda. Minifigs were better before printed on curves and boobs. This is not a feminist agenda, its a customizer's agenda. You are right some women do and some dont, however you're wrong about the minifigs. The earliest female specific torsos did not have printed on curves. The first castle princess, paradisa etc. The oldest lady minifig I can think of that had specifically feminine curves was the pirate girl, she was busty. Now, only women with jobs are given gender neutral bodies. Female townsfolk are relegated to the same handful of boring female torso's (the ones in the new research institute set) with the only interesting feature being their tits and waists. I cant think of a minifig torso in production now, that is strictly female, that does not have hips and boobs. There are plenty of gender neutral bodies if thats what your trying to say (though you neednt we're well aware).

[flailx]

Minifigs were better before printed on curves and boobs.

I disagree. As someone who was playing/building before the modern minfig was invented I LOVE the immense variety of faces and torso's available. Do you really pine for the days of smiley faces and 1 or two torsos per theme? I wouldn't begrudge LEGO the relatively few female torsos they produce. If my wife was into LEGO she would definitely want torsos that were identifiably female.

[jodawill]

Behold, the ideal feminist warrior minifigure!

[naf]

This is also nothing new, Lego has been printing some of the female torsos this way since the late 80's. And as was said above, some minifig heads are printed with makeup, some without. Just like how some days a girl might wear makeup, and not other days. It's all about variety. Women have hips and breasts, not sure why it's exactly offensive to portray these features? It's not like the minifig is being sexualized.

[Lancethecat]

Hourglass torsos are fine on minifigures who are supposed to be wearing form-fitting outfits, like Wonder Woman and Black Widow, but if they're wearing a jacket or a sweater (the new scientist, April O'Neil), they just look stupid. When is LEGO going to realize that 'female' does not necessarily mean 'skinny'? Whoever is in charge of minifigure design probably isn't sexist, but they definitely need to rethink their approach at designing female figures.

LEGO minifigures are supposed to be blocky. It's just the way they are. If LEGO really wants to make minifigures look realistic, they can just switch all of the figures in all of the themes with Friends minidolls.

[HawkLord]

I understand the thought process on how and why Lego has made this change with torsos, but I don't always think it works. On licensed figures it makes sense because women are portrayed that way in comics, so these Lego figures mirror that. On non-licensed figures, I think it the curves don't always have to be included and I support the idea that in some cases Lego not use them. Especially if the outfit (like a labcoat) doesn't warrant the look in the first place.

Make-up I think is less "offensive", since I think it's done more carefully by Lego and is less of a self-esteem piece. Making girls feel like even their toys have to be curvy is one thing, but alittle lipstick added is another. It's almost like the male heads that have facial hair.

If done conservatively, both designs can work well.

[Faefrost]

Behold, the ideal feminist warrior minifigure!

"The shape of her helmet reflects her continued enslavement to the male patriarchy!"

[autorazr]

If my wife was into LEGO she would definitely want torsos that were identifiably female.

If your wife is plus size, or very thin, the bodies lego produce would look nothing like her.

You guys keep missing the point, I keep seeing "but women do have hips and curves." Yes, and I also have manboobs. Everyone is different, the problem is that lego has established the default as being thin, there is no plus size lego woman, only thin, and pre curves, square (which for my purposes could represent plus size).

I do enjoy the variety of minifig torsos and faces, but every lady one I can think of, would be just as effective for my purposes, without the curves. Anyone who says otherwise, is sexualising those curves, you are sexualising a square piece of plastic.

[jodawill]

If your wife is plus size, or very thin, the bodies lego produce would look nothing like her.

You guys keep missing the point, I keep seeing "but women do have hips and curves." Yes, and I also have manboobs. Everyone is different, the problem is that lego has established the default as being thin, there is no plus size lego woman, only thin, and pre curves, square (which for my purposes could represent plus size).

I do enjoy the variety of minifig torsos and faces, but every lady one I can think of, would be just as effective for my purposes, without the curves. Anyone who says otherwise, is sexualising those curves, you are sexualising a square piece of plastic.

There are no fat male minifigures either. What's your point? Do you think they should start making obese children minifigures so fat kids will think it's normal to be obese?

[flailx]

...the bodies lego produce would look nothing like her.

Actually, the bodies LEGO produces look nothing like anybody - they're an abstraction of the human form. The head is grotesquely huge in relation to the trapezoid shaped body and it has monstrously thick legs!

you are sexualising a square piece of plastic.

Sexualizing? No. It is a graphic representation of the female form. No one, well, maybe you, is going to confuse a LEGO fig with a Barbie doll when it comes to sexualization of the female form.

[Duq]

Give me a break... Some people are just looking for something to moan about.

It's not as if these torso's are a new thing. This pirate torso with a corset is from the Black Seas Barracuda. That was 1989...