AG - Introduction and Discussion

[MKJoshA]

NuckElBerg posted his entry for Week 10, so that means Week 10 as ended and we are now in Week 11.

For those of you who haven't noticed. NuckElBerg has been very faithful about posting at the last allowed second. It's almost safe to set your week by his post

[NuckElBerg]

NuckElBerg posted his entry for Week 10, so that means Week 10 as ended and we are now in Week 11.

This week we've seen 15 builds for Kawashita, 13 for Octan, 11 for Mantis and 1 Aliens, plus some entries for Challenge 2.

And by the way, we have (not officially) reached the 500 builds for Andromeda's Gates!

Sorry...

For those of you who haven't noticed. NuckElBerg has been very faithful about posting at the last allowed second. It's almost safe to set your week by his post

I'm still withholding that I'm technically posting 1 hour and 1 minute before deadline (due to it being stated in GMT/UTC, which is not affected by Summer Time, i.e. we get an extra hour during summer), and all pictures and story have been up by then every week (I might have added some beginning (personal) comments after the deadline, but nothing that should affect the scoring/judging, rather it's only for the other builders' curiosity). However, I do feel bad about pushing the boundaries (this week was particullarly bad, since I essentially hadn't slept for 28 hours before starting this 15h building session), so I will try to get better (for some reason though, it always seems like I'm posting by the very last minute, even when I have started earlier... I just end up doing bigger build ).

Also, if Bob wants to lock my thread by the deadline (as per his reply in my post), then I'm fine with it, just make sure it's 12:00 CEST.

[NuckElBerg]

So, I just realized that the Kawashita logo probably is based on the Civilization V Japanese logo (which actually embarrassingly late considering that I've played that game for hundreds and hundreds of hours):

Which in itself is/is based on the Oda emblem (mon):

Although, I might be wrong, since the bellflower (which is used in the above emblems) were actually used by several Samurai clans (even though the Oda clan emblem is the most famous, considering Oda Nobunaga ruled Japan during the mid 16th century):

Although (again) I might be completely off, and the logo is based on the Akechi emblem (which is not actually that off, considering that Akechi Mitsuhide served as a general under Oda Nobunaga (and later trapped him and forced him to commit suicide)):

Or, maybe more likely, it's based on this:

...which is almost identical to the Kawashita logo (if you do a couple of small changes). I think it's a version of the Akechi emblem (since it came up as a related picture), but I'm not sure, since the website it came from is in Japanese...

Care to weigh in on this Bob?

Edited July 29, 2015 by NuckElBerg

[robuko]

^Actually it's the crest of my wife's family.

[NuckElBerg]

^Actually it's the crest of my wife's family.

Really?

[goatman461]

Aliencat was blogged on brothers-brick... http://www.brothers-brick.com/2015/07/29/interstellar-sales-professional/

[Kodan Black]

Aliencat was blogged on brothers-brick... http://www.brothers-...s-professional/

Just saw that myself. Very deserving too. His builds and stories weave great whimsy with well thought out design and execution.

[NuckElBerg]

Aliencat was blogged on brothers-brick... http://www.brothers-...s-professional/

Woho, great job AlienCat!

[Aliencat]

Hey thanks guys!

I hope this brings a little more attention to AG as well, get some more people to play :)

[Dannylonglegs]

Congrats Aliencat! Well deserved!

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[robuko]

Really?

Yup.

[NuckElBerg]

Yup.

That's quite awsome.

[Jody Meyer]

So I am starting to see a trend here, kinda. It seems that people whom build with real Lego are getting higher scores then those who use real Lego as opposed to LDD, I know it states that it shouldn't matter, is it because they have the bricks available to them? Also I noticed the master builders getting 5's as opposed to a beginner getting a three. This should be the opposite to encourage the ones with little experience to become better, not to leave in discouragement. Are the master's getting judged with more scrutiny, I don't think so. I follow what is needed to get the extra points but it doesn't seem to help.at all. Sorry for the post just discouraged, that's all, I truly enjoy building and playing this game, learning new techniques.

Again sorry.

Jody.

[Commander Turtle]

I talked about this with Nuck a fair bit at the start of the game. He's really found his stride, and the answer is that LDD has strengths and weaknesses. It's less easy to spot techniques or have the bricks you've got guide you, and every decision is manual; if you want a mixed colour rock, you're changing colour deliberately while in bricks it is more natural to just shove in bricks you have in front of you. In contrast, it's also possible to build much bigger, and build with rarer pieces in however much quantity you like. So Nuck has taken this, and started making these enormous builds with any kinds of bricks that he chooses. If he wants to build something as tall as an AT-AT every week, he will because there is nothing stopping him besides time.

In general, I agree that it requires more energy to get the same score out of LDD since you're expecting to build bigger and have to consciously decide to use advanced techniques. But it has advantages too, so play to those. Nuck's one of the top builders in the game right now, and he's still not touched a brick!

[Kodan Black]

I disagree with the notion of score inflation to keep people around. Beginners shouldn't get a 5 just because they are a beginner because at a certain point their scores will start to decrease and then they will be mad that their quality hasn't dropped but their scores are. Better builders should get better scores. The top builders are examples for everyone else to see techniques and ideas, people should build up to them not down to beginners. If you marginalize the best players they'll leave and then we lose some of the "splash" value that new people see when they find an Aliencat or shmails build that is simply a work of art.

And IMO LDD builds should be discounted compared to real bricks. I have a limited quantity of plastic pieces and that is further limited by color selection. LDD allows you to use any piece even if it was only ever in 1 set, you can have any color you want. If you want to have the freedom that unlimited parts in unlimited colors provides, it should be expected that you do more with it. Using real bricks increases the difficulty and thus should be rewarded.

[Commander Turtle]

Using real bricks increases the difficulty and thus should be rewarded.

I entirely disagree with this. LDD is harder in many ways, and easier in others like having many bricks. Try using it yourself and you'll see there's two sides to this

[Kodan Black]

I entirely disagree with this. LDD is harder in many ways, and easier in others like having many bricks. Try using it yourself and you'll see there's two sides to this

Ok, how is LDD not easier. You want a red brick... done. Wanna make that green... done. I've had so many times where I needed just 1 more of a piece and I didn't have it. I can't take a white part and make it blue with real bricks. LDD decreases the degree of difficulty because you've removed a limiting factor. Much like in many sports there should be a degree of difficulty factor applied. LDD makes larger builds much easier in numerous ways.

[Bob De Quatre]

Ok, how is LDD not easier. You want a red brick... done. Wanna make that green... done. I've had so many times where I needed just 1 more of a piece and I didn't have it. I can't take a white part and make it blue with real bricks. LDD decreases the degree of difficulty because you've removed a limiting factor. Much like in many sports there should be a degree of difficulty factor applied. LDD makes larger builds much easier in numerous ways.

That's the thing with people that don't build with LDD, they only see the unlimited bricks... You have access to unlimited bricks and colors, so everything is possible!!... And despite this, it's impossible to reproduce my two latest AG builds in LDD.

[NuckElBerg]

Ok, how is LDD not easier. You want a red brick... done. Wanna make that green... done. I've had so many times where I needed just 1 more of a piece and I didn't have it. I can't take a white part and make it blue with real bricks. LDD decreases the degree of difficulty because you've removed a limiting factor. Much like in many sports there should be a degree of difficulty factor applied. LDD makes larger builds much easier in numerous ways.

To continue with Bob's line of thought here; as he implied, a lot of the connections which are possible IRL are not possible in LDD. Also, when you're doing large builds in LDD, new bricks have a tendency to clip to just about anything (including non-legal connections ), which greatly increases the time it takes to build in LDD (IRL, it's quite a lot easier to just put the brick where you want it). Free-standing things are not allowed in LDD (such as minifigures on a tile), so that can be a bit of a hassle too. Finally, and I think this is one of the most important parts, me and Turtle just recently discussed the problem with creativity. I'll just quote his answer when I brought it up, because I think it's really telling:

Hmm, I think LDD is very hard to just randomly create stuff in. In parts, I have 4 massive wheels and I think, "What could these make?" I've also got 18 dark red windows in a train carriage that I'm disassembling, so you can expect to see a mobile lab or something with those at some point. LDD doesn't have that "opportunity" for bricks, because you've got so much choice that there's no reason for it..

Basically, when building in LDD, you have to have a clear idea when starting. This is probably why I'm basically hanging by a thread at the end of each deadline, because I can't seem to come up with good ideas before I really feel the pressure of the deadline coming up.

Overall, there are advantages and disadvantages with LDD, but just saying that it's easier is just just plainly wrong IMO.

[Jody Meyer]

hmm ok didn't mean to start a whole new discussion here.

1. LDD in my thoughts are they are they same as real Lego, when building. But it also takes time to render a shot, use photoshop or any of these programs to get a quality build. my two cents on this portion.

2. I was mostly upset with the judging of peoples build matched to there skill. I didn't mean a complete newbie receive a 5 for just posting a build, or a master to get a 1 for that matter because he didn't do something correct (which i am not sure how.) I think the judging curve maybe needs some review on how the judging works. I am one of the ones who gets a 3 no matter what I put up, even though I put a spaceship, vehicle or really anything that is needed to help out my scoring. and if thet are being included then does that mean my work is worth 1? I expect the masters to put up awesome builds, they are the ones who are the anchors to the teams be it Mantis, Kawa, Octan... is there a checklist that judges use to determine the points spread?

again sorry.

Jody.

[Bob De Quatre]

Jody, in your last build you reused the spaceship, the tanker and the temple from your previous builds. What do we have left to judge that would be worth a 4? Even when using LDD, you built your rocky cliff/temple with big prefab bricks. Try to have more detailled rocks and ground instead of having a simple baseplate. In your case, Blurenderer don't do justice to your MOCs, and the background colors you use are rather disturbing. And lastly, I'm not sure how to express it, but your pictures lack some depth, we don't have any general view of the whole build.

[Jody Meyer]

Alright Bob

thank you, I wanted to know what I was doing wrong. I have tried changing the background on the blue render but get white or blue, even after following the steps.

Jody.

[NuckElBerg]

Alright Bob

thank you, I wanted to know what I was doing wrong. I have tried changing the background on the blue render but get white or blue, even after following the steps.

Jody.

I'm sorry if this is the wrong forum to write this in, but it's the following segment that should be edited in the scene-file:

# The default material for the plane, a nice blue shade
shader {
 name PlaneMaterial
 type diffuse
 diff { "sRGB nonlinear" 1 1 1 }
}

This, for example, would produce white. 0.5 0.5 0.5 would produce grey. 0 0 0 would produce black. 1 1 0 would produce yellow. 0.4 0 0.8 would produce purple (basically go into this website: http://www.rapidtables.com/web/color/RGB_Color.htm , divide the numbers of the colour you want with 255 and put them into the above code-snip in the order R G B). Hope this helps!

[Aliencat]

I noticed the master builders getting 5's as opposed to a beginner getting a three. This should be the opposite to encourage the ones with little experience to become better, not to leave in discouragement. Are the master's getting judged with more scrutiny, I don't think so.

Wait why should more experienced players get a lower score for their builds just because they've made other cool builds in the past? Because it's "easier" for them to build "cool" creations, that's bull junk man. Personally I put a lot of thought and time and effort into my builds.

Any build should be judged by how cool that build is, not by how cool it is compared to that person's previous builds.

[Dragonfire]

Nuck's one of the top builders in the game right now, and he's still not touched a brick!

Technically that's not true. He has built his sigfig out of real bricks!