Ideas for new Classic Castle sets

[Teddy]

Dear all,

I just wanted to enter the discussion.

I'm relatively happy with the current castle line.

The minifigs are great and the sets contain a lot of usefull parts.

I've actually bought all but one set of the entire new castle line up untill now.

I'm not a big fan of fantasy, so I took all the trolls, dragons, skelletons, and wizzards and stored them in a seperate plastic container somewhere.

The dwarfs mine I consider to be "fun" and put it on a shelf for all to see.

The medieval market village is fantastic, in my humble opinion, so that is on a more prominent shelf.

Of the other sets I used the parts for my own MOCs. Or stacked them as parts in my brick store containers.

As far as they are design wise. I think they are great if you are into fantasy.

Since I'm not I don't fancy them that much and use them as usefull parts packs.

The only thing missing as far as i am conserned is an other human knight faction.

As far as Klaus-Dieter's ideas. I can only agree with him.

I've had simular ideas for a long time and that was what inspired me to make my own modular castle.

I wanted to see if it could work and what the challenges would be.

If Lego desides to market something similar, I'm sure I will buy them as long as my Lego budget permits.

Kind regards,

Teddy

Edited March 18, 2009 by Teddy

[Rijkvv]

The only thing missing as far as i am conserned is an other human knight faction.

I agree. I think it's mostly handy for those who don't want fantasy as their opponent. If I want to have a joust, and want to make it without fantasy, then the only opponent I can get is an old retired one.

[Tyrant]

I would like to see something in line with the Medieval Market Village. As in fairly detailed, tons orf parts, nice selection of the types of minifigures we aren't getting in normal sets (civilians in the case of the MMV). So, going from that, I would like to see a large sized castle. It would need to be set up like the castles of the 80s. The main necessary parts (as I see it) would be that it be modular, use small plates under the wall sections instead of one molded baseplate, and that it have hinged sections so that it can be opened (or, so that it can have additions plugged in without needing to alter the existing design because it can just be opened up farther to accomodate more additions). If Klaus's idea covered all that, then basically I would go with what he said. I would have two human factions involved. One that owns the castle and one invading. I believe this would be an excellent chance to either introduce a second human faction, or to reintroduce one or two old factions. My picks would be have the castle owned by the Black Falcons (I'm biased) and have someone like the Crusaders invading (or vice versa). It would be nice if they did this to take the opportunity to update their torsos with greater detail to better match the current torsos. As for the details of the castle, I would personally like to see what would amount to a super sized version of the Black Falcon Fortress. A drawbridge with larger gate house and guard tower. The rear structure with tudor style detail (either brick built or using a number of the wall sections like the one in the Black Falcon Fortress) would be larger and possibly overhang the courtyard a little. That part having 2 floors would be really nice. Then I would include corner towers. I would also have a blacksmith/armory already part of the set with appropriate support figures. I would also include some kiind of store room, even if it was just a hole in a wall filled with barrels and boxes. Overall, I would probably try to have as much of it brickbuilt (as opposed to single, large pieces) as possible for greater detail.

I believe given the current state of the MMV that something like this is a possibility. The fact that the MMV has seemingly been on backorder for months (here in the US at least) tells me that one of two things happened, and either case is likely good for the future of sets of this nature. Possibility one is that demand was severely under anticipated. Possibility two is that the set has just been selling non stop. The first possibility means that they were willing to gamble making a set like this and expected it to not sell as well as it has. Which means that it is exceeding their expectations, which is usually a good thing if you want more of something. The second possibility means that there is a verifiable market for sets of this nature, and TLG I would assume is very willing to satisfy that market. So, either way, the set being on backorder this long is a good sign for the possibility of future sets. As a spin off of the MMV, I believe it is a possibility that we will see a few smaller sets (like an armory/blacksmith, a farm house with peasants and livestock, etc) and a larger castle. The Star Wars line (which likely outsells Castle by a very wide margin) has numerous exclusives at any given time. TLG seems to be experimenting with expanding that idea into lines like Castle with things like the huge chess set and the MMV. So, I have hope that since the huge chess set sold out without going to discount and the MMV seems to be selling quite well, that this means this will continue and possibly expand.

Also, to comment on the side discussion, I really like the current Castle line. I was also alive during the 80s and enjoyed those sets as well. Perhaps a compromise of sorts can be reached that brings more of the classic Castle die hards into the mix but keeps the fantasy folks. Making the castles slightly more detailed and similar to the older ones (the KCS is a step in the rght direction) and creating another human faction would probably do a lot towards reaching this goal. Of course large, detailes classic Castleesque sets on S@H aren't a bad idea either.

[Rijkvv]

Maybe extra modular castle walls? So you can build a fortified city with a wall? With this I mean just the walls, with maybe some soldiers, so you don't have to build a gate if you already have three of them...

About the idea of Klaus-Dieter: I totally agree with you.

Would you like something similar to that?

Yes please!

[Tyrant]

Maybe extra modular castle walls? So you can build a fortified city with a wall? With this I mean just the walls, with maybe some soldiers, so you don't have to build a gate if you already have three of them...

You mean basically just wall sections that would look good with several of them in a row to keep expanding the castle as much as you want? That would be nice. If they were to consider that, perhaps just make a line of modular sections? Walls, a keep, towers, etc. That way you can design the whole castle layout from the options available. Or if it were a realistic possibility, do that with and a modular castle so you could also expand their castle. I would go for either of those ideas.

[Sir Dano]

Myself, I want more lower priced sets. For example:

An MMV style inn for about the same price as the Troll Battle Wheel and Shipwreck Hideout, with an Innkeeper, his daughter, two trolls and a knight on horseback with generic chainmail and shield. The tagline could be something along the line of "Can the wandering knight save the Innkeeper and his daughter from the nasty Trolls? Or will the trolls defeat the knight and steal the inn's food? You control the action in the new Troll Assault playset!"

Edited March 21, 2009 by Sir Dano

[Tyrant]

Myself, I want more lower priced sets. For example:

An MMV style inn for about the same price as the Troll Battle Wheel and Shipwreck Hideout, with an Innkeeper, his daughter, two trolls and a knight on horseback with generic chainmail and shield. The tagline could be something along the line of "Can the wandering knight save the Innkeeper and his daughter from the nasty Trolls? Or will the trolls defeat the knight and steal the inn's food? You control the action in the new Troll Assault playset!"

That would be a nice set. What would you think of combining that general idea with the idea of selling the assorted parts of the castle as stand alone sets that can be connected like the old Guardian Inn? Essentially making a small line of smaller sets that can be connected (or not connected as the case may be with buildings like a farm house or the Inn you suggest) to make a larger overall layout that you can add to at will.

[Sir Dano]

That would be a nice set. What would you think of combining that general idea with the idea of selling the assorted parts of the castle as stand alone sets that can be connected like the old Guardian Inn? Essentially making a small line of smaller sets that can be connected (or not connected as the case may be with buildings like a farm house or the Inn you suggest) to make a larger overall layout that you can add to at will.

As long as they're inexpensive with usable MOCing parts, I'd be all for it.

[Tyrant]

As long as they're inexpensive with usable MOCing parts, I'd be all for it.

Yeah, I am thinking most would be $30 or under. A largish keep or gatehouse might exceed that, but the wall sections and blacksmith shop type add ons wouldn't need to be gigantic. I am thinking in line with the ideas in these older sets:Blacksmith Shop Armor Shop Siege Tower Guarded Inn They would be a little bit bigger than these because the overall scale of the castle would be bigger. More importantly, they would be more detailed. Each of them should be able to have the relevant figures and parts for $30 or less. Using a current example, take the tower out of the Tower Raid set and fill it's gaps (and probably make it larger since there won't be a siege engine) and it would make a decent castle tower. It wouldn't take a whole lot of work to make it a really good tower (in this overall scale) and keep it around $30 because at least half the parts of that set are in the siege tower and it is $30 (not to mention it has 5 figures and just a tower would likely have 3 tops).

[blueandwhite]

That would be a nice set. What would you think of combining that general idea with the idea of selling the assorted parts of the castle as stand alone sets that can be connected like the old Guardian Inn? Essentially making a small line of smaller sets that can be connected (or not connected as the case may be with buildings like a farm house or the Inn you suggest) to make a larger overall layout that you can add to at will.

Modular design is always a great thing IMO.

For fans who don't do alot of MOCing, modular set design allows such individuals to gradually build their collection into something bigger. I had hoped that when the new Castle sets came out that we would have seen some modular add-ons for the current castle, but it never came to fruition.

[Tyrant]

Modular design is always a great thing IMO.

I've come around to that way of thinking in the last year or so as I have started buying LEGO in large quantities again. Looking back on the 80's castles, I wish the newer ones were more like them in that respect. I don't completely hate the molded baseplates either because with some work they probably could be worked into the mix. But as I was really studying the layout of the KCS before I bought a few of them I noticed it looked more like the older castles and was set up similar to them. I think it's a step in the right direction. Also in my begining attempts to get together the right kinds of pieces to eventually build a large castle I have noticed that seems to be the better way to try to build a large castle. I've got builders block (I think there may be a terrible pun in there somewhere) so I have mainly just been trying out smaller things with the mass or parts I have and the older methods seem to look better and have greater room for customization.

For fans who don't do alot of MOCing, modular set design allows such individuals to gradually build their collection into something bigger. I had hoped that when the new Castle sets came out that we would have seen some modular add-ons for the current castle, but it never came to fruition.

I have two KCS sets built together at the moment. I haven't completed part of it due to space constraints, but it mainly just looks like a longer KCS. I haven't figured out the best way to make it wider. Even if I do, it won't really add to the castle the way plugging in an inn or blacksmih shop would or the way being able to alter the geometrical layout (something other than a rectangle) would change things. I agree that a modular approach would allow people on a budget to customize a castle as well as allow those with a bigger budget to build up a massive castle and I think that's a win-win situation. I am suprised TLG hasn't done more along those lines as I would think that would a nice selling point.

[Klaus-Dieter]

I totally agree with all of you - different sets with different castle wall pieces and towers which can be connected would be absolutely necessary!

And they surely would be sold well!

As an example:

-set 1: "simple" castle wall, one soldier

-set 2: tower, a crossbow knight

-set 3: castle wall with battlement, tower with little catapult, two archers, one soldier

-set 4: gate with castle wall between two little towers, portcullis, drawbridge and machicolation, horse, knight, three soldiers

...

And as counterpart then there could be a human fraction of aggressors:

-set 1: catapult, tent, "crush barrier" (to hide for the archer), horse, three soldiers, one archer

-set 2: horse, one knight, one soldier, one archer, one crossbow knight

-set 3: soldier

...

Klaus-Dieter

[Tyrant]

I totally agree with all of you - different sets with different castle wall pieces and towers which can be connected would be absolutely necessary!

And they surely would be sold well!

As an example:

-set 1: "simple" castle wall, one soldier

-set 2: tower, a crossbow knight

-set 3: castle wall with battlement, tower with little catapult, two archers, one soldier

-set 4: gate with castle wall between two little towers, portcullis, drawbridge and machicolation, horse, knight, three soldiers

...

And as counterpart then there could be a human fraction of aggressors:

-set 1: catapult, tent, "crush barrier" (to hide for the archer), horse, three soldiers, one archer

-set 2: horse, one knight, one soldier, one archer, one crossbow knight

-set 3: soldier

...

Klaus-Dieter

Yeah I guess it would make sense to have some sets for the attackers as well. Your idea of assorted siege equipment (presumably detailed and not loaded with flick fire features) and soldiers is probably a good way to go about it.

Do you think it would be a good idea to use two existing castle factions (presumably older ones, but with updated torso prints with greater detail like the current ones) or to create two new ones?

[Rijkvv]

(.....)

Maybe some more ideas for the agressors: a set with a trebuchet, maybe a ballista, and a battering ram. Or how about some soldiers for digging the castle walls?

Do you think it would be a good idea to use two existing castle factions (presumably older ones, but with updated torso prints with greater detail like the current ones) or to create two new ones?

I think both ideas are great! The current knight minifigs are great, and could be useful, but keep the fantasy part away from these sets... Edited March 28, 2009 by Richie

[Klaus-Dieter]

Do you think it would be a good idea to use two existing castle factions (presumably older ones, but with updated torso prints with greater detail like the current ones) or to create two new ones?

I think both ideas are great! The current knight minifigs are great, and could be useful, but keep the fantasy part away from these sets...

I totally agree with you both!

The best thing would imo be to use the now existing Crown soldiers as the "good" knights since their torsos and equipment is very well done.

For the aggressors I think TLG could either use updated versions of older fractions. But imo a new fraction with a really new emblem would be perfect! What about a yellow tower in front of a black background? Or simply some red rhombs on white background? There are so many possibilities! But please not again an animal or a crown!

Maybe some more ideas for the agressors: a set with a trebuchet, maybe a ballista, and a battering ram. Or how about some soldiers for digging the castle walls?

Excellent ideas, Richie!

The most I like the idea of a battering ram! How awesome would that be if TLG releases a realistic battering ram!

It's a shame that I totally forgot for a big siege tower!

So here some (new) ideas for the agressors:

-set 4: big battering ram (with roof that guards the agressors against stones, arrows and hot oil and pitch from the crownies), two soldiers

-set 5: little catapult, scaling ladder, two soliers, one crossbow knight

-set 6: castle wall, big siege tower (with drawbridge), three soldiers, one archer, one crownie

...

Klaus-Dieter

[Rijkvv]

But please not again an animal or a crown!

How about a cross? I really would like to see some templar knights...

The idea for the roof of the battering ram is also great.

It brings me some new additions for the castle itself: some barrels and cauldrons for the oil.

And a thing, well, I don't know the exactly name. It hangs at a rope and is used to weaken the shock of a battering ram.

[m'kheyl]

I think another human knights faction would be a bit redundant since they would need the same kind of sets as the curret knights, castle, drawbridge and so on. That's why I'd love some kind of "new age" Forestmen (or elves if you will). The theme would then have "pure fantasy" and "realistic" sets (current line) and a semi-fantasy/pseudo-realistic subtheme.

Though I agree Templars or Teutonic Knights with Brickforge-like helmets would be pretty badass

[Tyrant]

Maybe some more ideas for the agressors: a set with a trebuchet, maybe a ballista, and a battering ram. Or how about some soldiers for digging the castle walls?

Trebuchets and ballistas would be nice. They would be a welcome change from everyone and their brother using catapaults. And if my history on the subject is accurate, then the use of a trebuchet would make them somewhat more advanced that the catapault folks.

[Sir Dano]

I think another human knights faction would be a bit redundant since they would need the same kind of sets as the curret knights, castle, drawbridge and so on. That's why I'd love some kind of "new age" Forestmen (or elves if you will). The theme would then have "pure fantasy" and "realistic" sets (current line) and a semi-fantasy/pseudo-realistic subtheme.

Though I agree Templars or Teutonic Knights with Brickforge-like helmets would be pretty badass

I agree, I want sets that mix fantasy and realism.

[medievalist]

on the basis of including some reality a modular castle system I have been working on some ideas, these will be duly posted as soon as I get the pictures to my satisfaction.

I think Lego should explore the rise of lollardy in the late 14th/ early 15th centuries, and have created some modules, which would easily integrate with a castle built on this principle.

The first set protrays John Wycliffe, in his study, pondering the role of the church within the emerging nation state.

A basic set would contain Wycliffe minifig, a few decorated tile manuscripts, a chair and desk,

whilst a more complex set would include the Modular Study, for him to work in.

The second set would protray Pope Gregory XI issuing his Bull condeming the 12 conclusions of the lollards

this would be another simple, and cheap set, containg 3 or 4 minifigs -the pope and a few cardinals, and of course the decorated tile representing the Papal Bull

The third set, with perhaps more interest for many of us, would protray the kings men burning a heritical lollard.

I think 3 or 4 heavily armed foot soldiers, a commander, and of course our heritic chained atop a pile of brown plates, flames leaping up

A add on to this set could include a skeleton, to represent Wycliffe's body, and would protray the disinterment of Wycliffe by the kings men, before his remains were burnt and duly distributed to the sea

would be interested in any thoughts people may have on this, I will try to get my pictures up soon (i would admit my lego skill is more advanced than my photographic!)

thank you

[Rijkvv]

I don't think LEGO should add fantasy and a realistic medieval theme in one box. The best thing is every faction has their own sets. In that case you can collect an army if you like fantasy, but you can also collect if you don't like to buy a castle with skeletons and dragons which you don't use for example.

And I think there are enough possibilities to give two human factions different sets. If I compare Dutch castles with castles in Germany, there are already differences (there are no mountains in the Netherlands, so a castle on top of a mountain, like soe in Germany, doesn't exist in the Netherlands). And the castles in the middle-East during the crusades are also different.

The Brickforge-helmets look awesome. I hope LEGO releases some helmets one day which look close to the Brickforge ones.

Maybe two ideas of minifig-packs:

1. Crusader pack. With the king of Jerusalem, three Templar Knights (one carries the banner, one master and one regular Templar Knight), some Teutonic Knights (same as with the templars), Hospitaller Knights (same as with the templars), and five regular crusaders/foot soldiers.

2. Saracen pack. With the sultan, an emir, eight mounted saracens (four of them horse archers), and five foot soldiers.

[SupaaSayajin]

Lego is far-off good castle sets/themes at the moment, they should take a leaf out of the playmobil knight castle/roman/fantasy era and turn them into Legosets, that'd be awesome...

Just more sets like that medieval market would be great :)

Edited March 29, 2009 by SupaaSayajin

[Sir Dano]

You guys are forgetting that kids are TLG's target audience. ;)

And I'm quite sure that TLG will stick with conflict-in-a-box type sets for a while to come.

[hewkii9]

1. Crusader pack. With the king of Jerusalem, three Templar Knights (one carries the banner, one master and one regular Templar Knight), some Teutonic Knights (same as with the templars), Hospitaller Knights (same as with the templars), and five regular crusaders/foot soldiers.

2. Saracen pack. With the sultan, an emir, eight mounted saracens (four of them horse archers), and five foot soldiers.

I support this! The Crusades would be great to turn into a theme.

[Tyrant]

You guys are forgetting that kids are TLG's target audience. ;)

And I'm quite sure that TLG will stick with conflict-in-a-box type sets for a while to come.

I think the idea is for sets similar to the MMV. A set which is not conflict oriented (I suppose there could be some price disputes in the stall, blacksmith, or inn) and is a limited release. If they have to include conflict, there is nothing stopping them including ballistas and trebuchets to add some variety beyond catapaults.