lanesteele240 Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 Fred67, You've forgotten who has the actual money though! The kids that make up the target demographic typically don't have their own income. So, If TLG were truly smart, they should try to hook the parents & the kids with the same set. If the adults are just as excited as the kids to build, and/or supervise the build, the adults will be more likely to buy x y z sets for said kids. I whole-heartedly agree with you that, for the more serious "train-heads", they will have to go to the various third parties to acquire train specific parts that are difficult/tedious to procure. The real mission that train enthusiasts need to undertake is to convince TLG that it's beneficial to spend resources on new/more train related items. This is true. But TLG has to keep trying. i saw a very good looking knock off of a train set on ebay! It looked very much like the Maersk and that may spark some interest from tlg. As more companys try to get some of the pie, they will be forced to offer more. We even have companies like ME making track in diffrent radious cruves and sell just straight track. If someone would just make some bigger turnouts i could get all my track needs from other companies. I would rather have the lego track but I already have 600 extra curves. my son and i only have 4 sets that came with track. The flex track is worthless. Im not buying a box of flex just to get a few straights. Order sent into Me. Money lost to TLG
Duq Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 You've forgotten who has the actual money though! The kids that make up the target demographic typically don't have their own income. So, If TLG were truly smart, they should try to hook the parents & the kids with the same set. If the adults are just as excited as the kids to build, and/or supervise the build, the adults will be more likely to buy x y z sets for said kids. But those kids have a big vote in what the parents spend the money on. I've made this point many time on this forum: AFOLs think they're very important to TLG because an AFOL spends more than a child. Problem is, for every AFOL there are 1000 children. Yes, the AFOL market is much bigger now than it was ten years ago but it will never overtake the childrens market. Aiming a train at both adults and children is not easy; it'll either be too simple for adults or too advanced for children. The real mission that train enthusiasts need to undertake is to convince TLG that it's beneficial to spend resources on new/more train related items. Exactly. And with most train projects on Ideas failing to reach 1000 votes, nevermind 10.000, and the disappointing sales of the Horizon Express we're not exactly sending the right signal to TLG. The cold hard truth about Lego trains by Duq, on Flickr In the 68 days since I posted that picture the featured projects have received an average 1.2 votes per project per day. At the current rate the turntable would reach 10k votes in August 2017. The Super Mega Steam Power Train Builder would reach the target in April 2023.
Lego Engineer Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 The problem with trains on Lego Ideas is that there is no unifying design that appeals to everyone. Each part of the world has it's own little niche of locomotives, rollingstock and scenery. As a result a lot of builders just can't identify with a very region specific design and hence don't vote. Even the modular designs have obvious regional influences. I would rather TLG focus on supplying the train basics (starter city sets, straight track on its own, wheels, etc) and let your imagination do the rest. I'm kind of glad there is no new train as it makes it easier for me to spend money on train MOCs that interest me.
ecmo47 Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 Duq: How so you know that sales of the HE were disappointing? Totally agree with the rest of your points but hopefully it's not justification as to why we will never see another Creator train.
UrbanErwin Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 I'm kind of glad there is no new train as it makes it easier for me to spend money on train MOCs that interest me. I can't agree more! This is exactly the way you should look at it.
dr_spock Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 Yup, it could be a long wait until the next Creator train. What to do in the meantime? Day 102 of 365: Stupid Train Is Late Again by dr_spock_888, on Flickr
fred67 Posted April 16, 2015 Posted April 16, 2015 Fred67, You've forgotten who has the actual money though! The kids that make up the target demographic typically don't have their own income. The fact is that most parents are not buying for themselves, they are not interested in LEGO, and they want sets that will make the kids happy: i.e., not advanced builds that don't even come with power options. They will keep making their simplified passenger and cargo trains (as I mentioned, these sell out pretty much everywhere every single Christmas) because A) that's what the kids want - they don't want a pretty model that doesn't do anything, and B) in order to make it do something, the parent has to buy a bunch of other things - track and power functions. Adult fans are a niche audience, and TLG knows it. And I have to repeat that they TRIED to make "L-Gauge" a popular train hobbyist gauge by offering all sorts of a-la-carte options - straight and curves that you could actually buy separately, a modular steam engine system that let you build the size and color steam engine you wanted, with or without a tender, as well as separately available rolling stock... plus a couple of the best diesels they've ever made (Sante Fe Super Chief and BNSF) and while I thought it was great at the time, it was a financial failure for TLG. I don't want to be a nay-sayer - I was one of the people defending LOTR as a viable license, as well as defending bringing back Harry Potter after the first time it was "canceled," but in this case I just don't see it happening. When it comes to money, TLG is once-bitten, twice-shy. Let me point out also that while they could make money with trains, if they have the option of doing trains or a theme that could make 50% more (or more) money, goodbye trains, because it's also a matter of how much they can physically produce.
MusicaRibelle Posted April 18, 2015 Posted April 18, 2015 I am afraid you're 100% right. The truth hurts sometimes :) From my point of view, I really don't care if new trains or new modulars appear frequently on the market, as long as the theme remains alive.. alive enough to supply the fundamental parts to bulld MOCs. TLG has given us basic pieces and LDD. The rest is built by the community. What I would like, honestly, is a technology upgrade for the controls. I don't have time or patience to study Arduino and make my own board, and the Lego robotic sensors and related pieces are too bulky and expensive. I would like to see a set of components that are for adults, adequately miniaturized and available to purchase as a solution. I.e. a few light, speed, track sensors the size of a 2x4 brick, and controller board with usb plug, and a simple basic program that runs on smartphones and pc, and that can be complemented with custom code. Don't worry about putting out more horizon express trains, we'll build our own. ..though once in a while a nice complex steam engine would be nice, I arrived too late for the EN, and I'd surely buy the next similar thing.
Lego Dino 500 Posted April 18, 2015 Posted April 18, 2015 I wouldn't mind the lack of train parts if they made the pieces more accessible. I would love to have a train car pack with all the pieces for a train base, or a locomotive pack with the motor, battery pack, receiver, and remote. The problem is that trains aren't as popular as they used to be. With major advancements like Japan's Maglev, California's planned high speed rail, and GE's new Tier 4 compliant GP40s, it should hopefully gain back up, but that'd only realistically happen if there was a MAJOR revival in the commuter rail industry.
Duq Posted April 18, 2015 Posted April 18, 2015 Are you in the US of A? Here in Yurp trains are still gaining in popularity, partly thanks to increasing congestion.
detjensrobert Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 Are you in the US of A? Here in Yurp trains are still gaining in popularity, partly thanks to increasing congestion. I thought of making a joke about Belch-um but i thought better of it...
Lego Dino 500 Posted April 19, 2015 Posted April 19, 2015 Pretty much. And trains will only be viable as long as they're cheaper than airplanes, which currently isn't the case with CSX and Amtrak.
Mestari Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) Yup, it could be a long wait until the next Creator train. What to do in the meantime? Day 102 of 365: Stupid Train Is Late Again by dr_spock_888, on Flickr Actually this is what you do in the mean time (shameless plug, but fits perfectly :D): https://ideas.lego.com/projects/96989 Edited April 20, 2015 by Mestari
fred67 Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 Pretty much. And trains will only be viable as long as they're cheaper than airplanes, which currently isn't the case with CSX and Amtrak. Maybe if you're talking about passengers. Even then, you need to limit it to CSX and Amtrak, because a lot of light rail is fairly cost effective and difficult to compare to air travel (since you'd never travel those short distances by air... at least not until hovercars). NYC couldn't be NYC without rail.
dr_spock Posted April 20, 2015 Posted April 20, 2015 Pretty much. And trains will only be viable as long as they're cheaper than airplanes, which currently isn't the case with CSX and Amtrak. You could sell train travel as having more leg room and no nude xrays yet. At least Amtrak is getting new rolling stock and possibly expanding high speed in California. No high speed in Canada... Actually this is what you do in the mean time (shameless plug, but fits perfectly :D): LOL, looks like a good addition to the Ghost train set.
Mestari Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 LOL, looks like a good addition to the Ghost train set. Thank you :) The problem is, this is using standard LEGO tracks and that's why I think the ghost train would derail... but then again it would really fit derailed :P
tedbeard Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 You could sell train travel as having more leg room and no nude xrays yet. At least Amtrak is getting new rolling stock and possibly expanding high speed in California. No high speed in Canada... The "California" high speed rail is planned to extend right up through Portland, Seattle and Vancouver BC. There is talk of a Calgary-Edmonton line and a Toronto - Montreal line FWIW. Not that this has anything to do with LEGO train sets being introduced in 2015...
detjensrobert Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 ...if it ever gets done here in California. There are still a lot of hoops to jump through, especially in Southern California. Still have my fingers crossed, though. .
Duq Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 Apparently it's already being built: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-Speed_Rail At only twice the cost per kilometer of similar projects in Europe it should connect LA to San Francisco by 2029...
Klaus-Dieter Posted April 23, 2015 Posted April 23, 2015 (edited) I'm very late but nevertheless thank you very much for this pictures and links! I have to agree that the Heavy Haul Train hasn't that WOW-factor! Pro: The heli looks nice and I really like the "bulk cargo waggon". Apart from its white railings the loco is very well built. Which I like the most is the crane. Con: The white railing on the engine does indeed look out of place. The only explanation for this might be that TLG had to add it since otherwise the model would look too similar to a DB engine that they had to pay licenses. That the waggon that carries the excavator has no detachable sidewalls is a shame - this way it does look really <insert that tiresome argument> and not accurate. It's a pity that they didn't add a really small shovel to the back of the excavator - like TLG did, both shovles are nearly identical. Imo the Red Cargo Train (from 2010) was much more attractive! Maybe detailed official pictures might change my opinion - but like I see it now, the set isn't worth the money. Klaus-Dieter Edited April 23, 2015 by Klaus-Dieter
OLERSHAW RAILS Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 i Would love if they bring the hobby train back i would get two sets. I would also love if they made stand alone passanger carriage sets for sets that are already have in the market i dont really want to buy 3 sets to make a 6 carrage train. Great if they sold train bases/cufflings/windows in a set. to make creating you own version easier. then robbing another set to produce what you want. or having to stalk ebay.
davidmull Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 i Would love if they bring the hobby train back i would get two sets. I would also love if they made stand alone passanger carriage sets for sets that are already have in the market i dont really want to buy 3 sets to make a 6 carrage train. Great if they sold train bases/cufflings/windows in a set. to make creating you own version easier. then robbing another set to produce what you want. or having to stalk ebay. I always taught that hobby train looked awfull. I don't think it sold well ether.
coreyg Posted April 24, 2015 Posted April 24, 2015 (edited) I always taught that hobby train looked awfull. I don't think it sold well ether. I don't like the main model of the hobby train as well, but I like several of the alternate builds. The idea of having so many alternate builds for a train kit is great and I wish they'd do it again, but I don't think it would sell well either. It seems to me that the picture on the box sells the sets. If that picture is good, it sells, if not, it doesn't sell well. For something that has alternate builds, it's difficult to have one picture to show what it can be. Just my take on it. I've bought 3 of the hobby train but I never built the main model. I've built 3 or 4 of the alternates models though. I brought in one of the alternate builds (one of the engines) to one of our shows and most of our club members didn't even remember/know about the hobby train and the few that knew about it, only one of them knew it had alternate models. Edited April 24, 2015 by coreyg
peterab Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 I always taught that hobby train looked awfull. I don't think it sold well ether. I think many people unfamiliar with the Swiss crocodiles might find the main model odd, but apart from the colour it is a pretty good representation of the prototype. The sales were not helped by the uncertainty around the 9V system at the time, I'd guess a similar product with a rarer base colour (dark green for example) would sell at least as well as the creator trains now, as long as it was supported by availability of track and the current city trains.
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