PF Battery Box or PF Rechargeable Battery Box

[cgarison]

As many of us have discovered, it is much cheaper to use that AAA battery box and order a dozen AAA Eneloop batteries from Amazon and pick up an inexpensive charger. By the time you pay for a single battery pack plus the power cord, you can easily purchase the rechargeable Eneloop AAA batteries and a charger that is quicker than the Lego battery pack and charger cord. With my Maha charger, I could recharge 24 batteries in less time than it took to recharge the Lego battery pack and we got the same amount of run time out of either solution. With my train, it was about 110 minutes (just short of 2 hours) and on a friends train (that weighs about half of mine) about 175 minutes (2 hours and 45 minutes.)

Energizer makes a super fast and rather cheap charger, but I fear that it actually charges the batteries too quickly and hurts their overall life. That is why I made the investment into a better Maha charger. YMMV.

[codefox421]

Hello railroad enthusiasts!

This is just the thread I was looking for as I have finished our first motorized train set, the 2014 high speed passenger passenger train. I too would like an option to just buying AAA's over and over again. After discovering that Lego has also made a rechargable battery box, I immediately gave thought to purchasing this. Just one problem, and correct me if I am wrong, but it does not come with the charging cord, which is sold separately? They both are expensive, but there appears to be an even bigger problem with that. The charging cord has a shipping date of July 2015! Are there any generic power cords that could be used as a substitute, or do you have to buy that particular one? It would appear that unless you already have the charging cord, there would be no point of ordering the rechargeable battery box by itself.

Why couldn't they have just sold the box and charger cable together?

Under that model, what happens when you want to buy a second rechargeable battery? You have to buy another power cord with it. Some people might be okay with this; some might even prefer it. However, a lot of people would probably be okay with one cable for all their batteries.

To answer your question about generic charger cables, yes you can use other ones. They won't charge as efficiently (see railbricks issue #7), but the charge time is not very different. Here's the off-brand cable I use: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00068U44I/

[fred67]

Anyone have any problems with exploding rechargeables? I haven't, yet, but rechargeables only make up a small fraction of what I'm using right now (and I'd like them to make up a lot more). My problem is that I use a lot around this time of year, when I have my Christmas train set up, but not so much the rest of the year (unfortunately). If I forget, and leave batteries in, they always seem to explode - even supposedly good ones (energizers and duracells). And no, I don't mix old and new (or brands).

[peterab]

If I forget, and leave batteries in, they always seem to explode - even supposedly good ones (energizers and duracells). And no, I don't mix old and new (or brands).

That sounds like your charger is not matched to your battery type. Newer rechargeable batteries have far higher energy energy density than older NiCd batteries for example, but they are also a lot more picky about chargers.

[edsmith0075]

Looking for guidance on this. I have been using Duracell and energizer AAA chargeable. I have been using a standard AAA Duracell wall charger. My triple batteries are mounted in 2 3 pack AAA battery holders that are hot glued together in a straight line so that it will fit right down the middle of my locomotives, in the hollow space in the train chassis. I would like to use Ni-Cad so that they can be charger like RC power packs are charged. I am getting tired of picking the batteries from the holder every time I need to charge them. It would be nice to just make it one battery pack like you see in RC cars that I can plug into a charger and have charged.

I was told that you can not charge the Energizer and Duracell rechargeable the same way your recharge the ni cad enelopes. Looking for advice or a work around if any is available from the community.

Ed

[detjensrobert]

If you are going down the rechargebles path, I suggest not using Ni-Cad and use Lithium-ion (Li-ion) batteries. They have a better energy density and are usually smaller than the older NiCd or NiMH batteries. (please, correct me if I'm wrong here.)

[cgarison]

Just remember that with the NiMH batteries, there has been an evolution of technology over the years that has allowed the batteries that you purchase today to last longer in most applications and not lose as much energy as they set over time. The Energizer batteries that I originally used when I was a wedding photographer 10 years ago would discharge themselves in about 3 weeks of non-use. The latest model of Energizers has extended this time to nearly 3 months. But if you use the latest generation of Panasonic Eneloop NiMH batteries, they can set for 3 years and still hold a charge. Plus they have a running discharge characteristic that more closely resembles that of a Li-Ion battery pack. And because they are NiMH, they can be charged in any NiMH charger. I personally use a Maha charger that has 3 modes for fast charging, regular charging and conditioning the batteries. And unlike the Energizer fast chargers, the batteries do not get hot which can reduce the number of times the battery can be recharged.

Note that Gen. 1 and Gen. 2 Eneloops were sold and marketed under the Sanyo brand while the latest 3rd Generation batteries are now marketed under the Panasonic brand. Same great battery, just carries the branding of the parent company and has a greater number of recharge cycles per battery.

Finally, while running batteries in our Lego trains, the running discharge of the Eneloop allows the train to run strong for 95% of is run time and then slow to a stop in the last 5% of the time left in the battery. In many other NiMH batteries that are available, the trains gradually slow during the whole run time of the battery making them run rather slow for the last 30%-40% of their run time which is not as pleasing to watch on a layout.

Yes, Li_Ion have better energy densities, but with that bigger amount of energy in a smaller package comes the risk of fire and explosion. Consequently, I do not recommend using any form of Li_Ion battery except for those that are made by Lego and sold in their battery pack with all the electronic circuitry to protect the Li-Ion cell during charges and when discharging to run one of our trains. We certainly do not want to have a fireball while enjoying one our our trains run around the track or create a hazard at a venue when recharging the battery.

[detjensrobert]

Never mind, then. Listen to this guy ^^^^^

[Legoboy22]

I would use the battery box with 2 sets of rechargeable batteries. One will be running and one is ready to be put in the train when the other runs out. I think it works.

[dr_spock]

Yes, Li_Ion have better energy densities, but with that bigger amount of energy in a smaller package comes the risk of fire and explosion. Consequently, I do not recommend using any form of Li_Ion battery except for those that are made by Lego and sold in their battery pack with all the electronic circuitry to protect the Li-Ion cell during charges and when discharging to run one of our trains. We certainly do not want to have a fireball while enjoying one our our trains run around the track or create a hazard at a venue when recharging the battery.

The same can be said for Li-Polymer (LiPo) batteries which can be found in RC models. Those are even more vital that you charge them correctly.

LiPo Battery Charging Tips

• Always use a charger made to charge LiPo packs
  
• Double check that the settings for the lithium polymer charger are correct for the pack being charged. This includes the cell count, as well as the current settings. In general, most lithium polymer batteries should be charged to no more than 4.2 volts per cell or depleted to less than 3.0 volts per cell.
  
• Ensure that charging leads are connected correctly. Reverse charging can lead to cell damage or a fire or explosion.
  
• Always charge LiPo batteries on surfaces that won’t catch on fire such as cement, steel, ceramic or stone. Wooden tables and carpeted floors are not recommended charging surfaces.
  
• Do not charge batteries near flammable products or liquids.
  
• Never charge a LiPo battery while inside your model or other electronic device. If it catches fire it can lead to total destruction of the item it is being charged in.
  
• LiPo batteries should be charged within a temperature range of 0C to 50C. Batteries charged outside this temperature range may experience leakage, heat generation or cell damage.
  
• Never leave a charging lithium polymer battery pack unattended.
  
• Do not charge inside an automobile, especially while driving.
  
• Do not store batteries inside an automobile.
  
• If unsure of the charge rating, never charge a lithium polymer battery pack at a rate over 1C (1 x the battery packs rated capacity).
  
• Never charge a LiPo pack that has ballooned or swelled due to over / under charging or from a crash.
  
• Never charge a lithium polymer battery pack that has been punctured or damaged in a crash.
  
• Never, under any circumstances let the positive and negative battery leads touch each other. It can lead to cell ballooning, cell damage or fire or an explosion.
  
• Have a fire extinguisher near the charging area or a large bucket of dry sand. Do not try to distinguish with water.
  
• If you notice your LiPo battery pack is swelling, stop the charging process immediately, put the battery in a safe container and observe it for 15 minutes.
  
• Always charge your Lipo battery packs in a Lipo charging safe bag.
  

LiPo Battery Handling & Storage

• Keep LiPo battery packs WELL out of reach of children.
  
• Do not put battery packs in pockets or bags where they can short circuit.
  
• Do not store or transport batteries where they can come into contact with sharp or metallic objects.
  
• Do not store your LiPo pack in extreme temperatures below 0C or above 50C.
  
• Always store your LiPo pack in a safe and non flammable container away from flammable objects. A LiPo Sack or metal / ceramic storage container is best.
  
• Always store your LiPo’s partially charged. They will maintain their performance levels over time and there’s no need to cycle them unless stored for periods longer than 3-6 months. D
  
• o not immerse the battery in water or allow the battery to get wet.
  
• Do not dispose of in fire or heat.
  
• When mailing or shipping LiPo batteries, always ship them at a 30% charged state for safety reasons.
  
• When storing batteries for extended periods, store at a half charged state.
  
• To dispose of a LiPo battery, discharge it fully then place it in a bucket of salt water for one week. To dispose of, follow your municipal battery disposal guidelines.
  

Finally, always follow the manufacturer’s safety instructions and charging guidelines for lithium polymer battery packs. These are there for not only the longevity of the battery pack, but also your safety.

[cgarison]

Lithium is a very reactive metal. It makes great batteries, but from personal experience, it made some nice fireballs in the chemestry lab back in day. That is the property that makes me respect battery packs in my electronic devices. No need to have a fireball now that I am married and don't need to impress the girls in the lab.

[Russel75]

The same can be said for Li-Polymer (LiPo) batteries which can be found in RC models. Those are even more vital that you charge them correctly.

LiPo Battery Charging Tips

• Always use a charger made to charge LiPo packs
  
• Double check that the settings for the lithium polymer charger are correct for the pack being charged. This includes the cell count, as well as the current settings. In general, most lithium polymer batteries should be charged to no more than 4.2 volts per cell or depleted to less than 3.0 volts per cell.
  
• Ensure that charging leads are connected correctly. Reverse charging can lead to cell damage or a fire or explosion.
  
• Always charge LiPo batteries on surfaces that won’t catch on fire such as cement, steel, ceramic or stone. Wooden tables and carpeted floors are not recommended charging surfaces.
  
• Do not charge batteries near flammable products or liquids.
  
• Never charge a LiPo battery while inside your model or other electronic device. If it catches fire it can lead to total destruction of the item it is being charged in.
  
• LiPo batteries should be charged within a temperature range of 0C to 50C. Batteries charged outside this temperature range may experience leakage, heat generation or cell damage.
  
• Never leave a charging lithium polymer battery pack unattended.
  
• Do not charge inside an automobile, especially while driving.
  
• Do not store batteries inside an automobile.
  
• If unsure of the charge rating, never charge a lithium polymer battery pack at a rate over 1C (1 x the battery packs rated capacity).
  
• Never charge a LiPo pack that has ballooned or swelled due to over / under charging or from a crash.
  
• Never charge a lithium polymer battery pack that has been punctured or damaged in a crash.
  
• Never, under any circumstances let the positive and negative battery leads touch each other. It can lead to cell ballooning, cell damage or fire or an explosion.
  
• Have a fire extinguisher near the charging area or a large bucket of dry sand. Do not try to distinguish with water.
  
• If you notice your LiPo battery pack is swelling, stop the charging process immediately, put the battery in a safe container and observe it for 15 minutes.
  
• Always charge your Lipo battery packs in a Lipo charging safe bag.
  

LiPo Battery Handling & Storage

• Keep LiPo battery packs WELL out of reach of children.
  
• Do not put battery packs in pockets or bags where they can short circuit.
  
• Do not store or transport batteries where they can come into contact with sharp or metallic objects.
  
• Do not store your LiPo pack in extreme temperatures below 0C or above 50C.
  
• Always store your LiPo pack in a safe and non flammable container away from flammable objects. A LiPo Sack or metal / ceramic storage container is best.
  
• Always store your LiPo’s partially charged. They will maintain their performance levels over time and there’s no need to cycle them unless stored for periods longer than 3-6 months. D
  
• o not immerse the battery in water or allow the battery to get wet.
  
• Do not dispose of in fire or heat.
  
• When mailing or shipping LiPo batteries, always ship them at a 30% charged state for safety reasons.
  
• When storing batteries for extended periods, store at a half charged state.
  
• To dispose of a LiPo battery, discharge it fully then place it in a bucket of salt water for one week. To dispose of, follow your municipal battery disposal guidelines.
  

Finally, always follow the manufacturer’s safety instructions and charging guidelines for lithium polymer battery packs. These are there for not only the longevity of the battery pack, but also your safety.

I prefer LiPo batteries because they have big capacity, means they hold lots of power in a small package.

[kibosh]

Thanks, guys. I'm going to price out some Eneloops for sure.

Man. I found this set of eneloop batteries at Costco this weekend for $23.99. It was $29.99 regularly $29.99 but it had a $6 manufacturer instant rebate. After seeing the price on Amazon, $33.59, I was I would have bought two!

[cgarison]

Kibosh, that is a great starter set for anyone just getting their first rechargeable batteries. I purchased that set for my mother a few years ago and then got her a few additional dozen packs of Enenloop AAA batteries for special occasions so she would have plenty of batteries in case of a power outage.

Be sure to watch the daily deals on Amazon because they do toss Eneloop batteries onto that page regularly for about 1/3 off. I just picked up a dozen AA gen IV Eneloops for less than 20.00 last week. Only problem is there is a limit of 1 deal per customer.

Finally, there will be a day when you will want to invest in a better, faster charger and the Maha Powerex MH-C800S is really a great charger because it can quickly charge 8 batteries without destroying the cells with excessive heat like most other fast chargers. I had a bunch of those Energizer 30 Minute Fast Chargers over the years and they simply thrash the batteries and reduce their usable life by 50%. Consequently, it is worth the investment for a better, not quite as fast charge to keep those batteries running long into the future (if you need more than a 4-6 hour charge time).

[LoneBrickerSG]

Do you use the PF battery box to operate your PF trains - the box that comes with PF train sets anyway - or do you use the rechargeable one? I have recently bought train 60052 but I don't use the battery box. I use the rechargeable one. I don't like taking batteries out and putting them back in all the time. This way I can simply recharge the entire box by just attaching the cable of the charger. In my opinion this procedure is just nicer and less annoying.

I use the regular PF batt box and have rechargable triple-A batteries for it. Someone else suggested I avoid the rechargeable box just in case Lego dumps PF in the future I can still keep my Triple-A boxes in use.

I don't know what "Eneloop" is though.

[cgarison]

I use the regular PF batt box and have rechargable triple-A batteries for it. Someone else suggested I avoid the rechargeable box just in case Lego dumps PF in the future I can still keep my Triple-A boxes in use.

The reason why we use the AAA (and in the occasional AA battery box) is that it takes much less time to charge Eneloop batteries in our Maha charger than to charge the PF Li-Ion batteries. In 45 minutes we can have 8 re-charged AAA batteries for a train that has 110 minutes of run time vs. the 4 hour charge time for the Lego battery pack. For us, this get us a better turnaround ratio for our batteries.

I don't know what "Eneloop" is though.

Here is a link to the press release for their recent rebranding (From Sanyo to Panasonic) for the Eneloop battery.

http://www.panasonic-batteries.com/eu/news/panasonic-launches-eneloop-rechargeable

[leg01982]

Have they stopped making the 88000 battery box now? As I want to motorise my trains but it has been out of stock for like 3-4 months now

[cgarison]

The 88000 is in stock from Lego Shop@Home in the United States.

[Breakdown]

being old school 12V the thought of changing to batteries seems like such a backwards step. .not sure i could ever bring myself to do it!

Thinking of attaching my 12V motor to a 9V battery box, the train can do all it wants in the 12V section and then switch over to the RC section of track seemlessly, plus the battery pack will be getting charged while in the 12V section. There's also a huge potential for a house fire with this setup - Everyone wins!!

[codefox421]

Thinking of attaching my 12V motor to a 9V battery box, the train can do all it wants in the 12V section and then switch over to the RC section of track seemlessly, plus the battery pack will be getting charged while in the 12V section. There's also a huge potential for a house fire with this setup - Everyone wins!!

Looking forward to the house fire; please post video. Just kidding.

I'm doing something similar except using 9V motors. I pick up power from the rails to charge a battery, then pipe the battery power to a Bluetooth receiver before sending it back to the motor. And I'm working on making it all modular so any part could be replaced with a simple loopback.

The only trouble is 9V doesn't charge the batter very efficiently, so I may have to run 12V on the rails... I find that kind of funny.

[peterab]

Thinking of attaching my 12V motor to a 9V battery box, the train can do all it wants in the 12V section and then switch over to the RC section of track seemlessly, plus the battery pack will be getting charged while in the 12V section. There's also a huge potential for a house fire with this setup - Everyone wins!!

The difficulty with this is the contacts on the bottom of the 12V motor will most likely foul on RC/PF/9V points.

[baard]

Answer to original question - both

I have 3 rechargable batteries that sit in trains that do not like to be disassembled. This the primary reason for using this battery, as it is expensive

Charging the battery while it sits in the train has not proven to be a problem so far.

My x number of the PF battery boxes (both types (AA +AAA batteries) sit in trains where the box is easily removed.

Edited March 16, 2015 by baard

[Phoxtane]

To avoid batteries exploding while charging, be sure to use the charger that came with them - it may not charge as fast, but what you could do is have another set of batteries that charge while the first is being used and swap them out when depleted. After all, the charger that comes with those batteries is designed to be used with them.

Lithium-ion batteries in particular are extremely nasty if you treat them wrong:

Edited March 16, 2015 by Phoxtane

[jtlan]

To avoid batteries exploding while charging, be sure to use the charger that came with them - it may not charge as fast, but what you could do is have another set of batteries that charge while the first is being used and swap them out when depleted. After all, the charger that comes with those batteries is designed to be used with them.

Lithium-ion batteries in particular are extremely nasty if you treat them wrong:

While this is generally true, I suspect that it's not the case for the Lego battery, where the charging regulator and associated circuitry are built into the battery box.

[Twelvebears]

While this is generally true, I suspect that it's not the case for the Lego battery, where the charging regulator and associated circuitry are built into the battery box.

Agreed. This is one advantage of the 8878 battery, in that the in-built circuit is quite flexible re the power supply.

A simple multi-voltage adapter, with the exchangeable tips is fine. I use one rated up to 1amp, set to 12v and it works perfectly. The battery itself then regulates this down to the voltage and current the cells actually need. Cost about £8 from Amazon