Eurobricks structure, moderating, member involvement and more

[SMC]

Well in the Jurassic World topic there is a lot of talk about dino and why wont there be and a dino MOC and a JP or JW MOC would look very alike.

Disney princess and friends is aimed at the same consumer, both have mindolls a lot of large panels, bright coloured parts and the same kind of parts. And on that note we put junior together based on all these things but not friends.

There is a lack of consistency and a funny denial that there is now a young girl line.

Edited September 9, 2014 by SMC

[Darkdragon]

I don't think that separating the forum based on what someone thinks TLG is targeting is the way to go. Friends is obviously an unlicenced in-house theme and Disney Princess is not. Community involvment on things like this could never work because 30,000 opinions is impossible to manage and please.

[SMC]

I don't think that separating the forum based on what someone thinks TLG is targeting is the way to go. Friends is obviously an unlicenced in-house theme and Disney Princess is not. Community involvment on things like this could never work because 30,000 opinions is impossible to manage and please.

It doesn't matter how many people there are, just add a poll and away you go. We are given different reasons for why this is together and why this is not and they contradict each other.

Why is junior together?, Why are some licence with there real theme and some are not? And so on, is there anything anyone is open to change.

Mods what do you think could be better?

[Brickdoctor]

There is a lack of consistency and a funny denial that there is now a young girl line.

I don't see how it could be interpreted as a lack of consistency. Friends is a Town-esque TLG original theme, therefore it belongs in Town. Disney Princesses is licensed from Disney, therefore it belongs in Licensed. For the purposes of organization, it really doesn't matter to whom TLG targets the Friends or Princesses themes — EB is an AFOL forum; there's no point in organizing things based on how age groups that none of us are part of would behave.

Licensed themes belong in Licensed. It's as simple as that. LotR and PotC were the special exception, not the precedent for future licenses.

[SMC]

I don't see how it could be interpreted as a lack of consistency. Friends is a Town-esque TLG original theme, therefore it belongs in Town. Disney Princesses is licensed from Disney, therefore it belongs in Licensed. For the purposes of organization, it really doesn't matter to whom TLG targets the Friends or Princesses themes — EB is an AFOL forum; there's no point in organizing things based on how age groups that none of us are part of would behave.

Licensed themes belong in Licensed. It's as simple as that. LotR and PotC were the special exception, not the precedent for future licenses.

So for the 3rd time why is junior together.

And why the special exception?

I would love to see afol collections to see what themes tend to go together, friends and city, friends and Disney princesses.

Edited September 9, 2014 by SMC

[rollermonkey]

SMC is saying that licensed goes in Licensed isn't consistent because Juniors has content that is licensed (Batman, etc.) and content that isn't, but it all gets lumped together. With several lines that didn't get lumped into Licensed, PotC, LotR, SW, etc. the fact that some of the other themes that could get placed elsewhere, but don't is inconsistent.

The problem is that there are a dozens licensed and non-licensed lines now, many defunct, and there is lots of overlap, between individual licensed lines and between licensed and unlicensed lines.

It has to be nearly impossible to keep it sorted even as well as it is, and it's nearly impossible to move something once it has been placed initially and users start populating a sub-forum with topics.

I have a 4-year-old daughter, so Friends and Princesses are well and truly blended in my house and in my mind. Putting the two in different places would be frustrating if I was a fan of them, and fans of one are very likely to be fans of the other.

I'm already in 4 places, since I like Architecture and Creator Expert (Special Themes), Modulars (City, even though they are Creator Expert sets), Star Wars and Technic. In all that I see people posting Friends MOCs in Special and City, Steampunk MOCs show up all over the place (technically, it's sci-fi), Mechs show up in Special and Star Wars, and I'm sure Sci-Fi, too, etc, etc.

Sometimes it IS kind of annoying, but I can also see how difficult it is to differentiate when the lines and people's tastes and imaginations are as varied as they are.

Edited September 10, 2014 by rollermonkey

[robuko]

I think the sub forum allocation of themes is really good, and the mods have done a great job in that regard. Maybe there is room to move some of the less active closed licences like PoP to history, Speed Racer to action, as I think this would actually get more people building in those themes. But I'm happy to leave it to the mods.

[Brickdoctor]

I'm not familiar with the Juniors themes, so I can't answer that.

Pirates of the Caribbean was placed in Pirates because that theme forum was getting no new sets and PotC was quite similar to the generic pirates themes. Similarly, Lord of the Rings was placed in History because it took the place of ongoing generic castle themes, plus it helped that it had a lot of the elements of classic medieval history and legend. Both of these were major themes based on successful franchises which we knew would attract a lot of activity and which would leave their respective major theme forums with no new sets.

And in the case of Star Wars, I believe that it was originally part of Licensed, but it is undoubtedly large enough to deserve its own theme forum.

[Clone OPatra]

The Juniors vs Friends/Princess argument is unconvincing. Juniors is actually one theme, albeit with a spectrum of sets. Friends and Princesses are two themes. There's no theme called 'Girls' that has some city sets and some Disney sets. Soon there will be this Elves thing with minidolls, also its own theme.

As far as it applies to AFOLs, Juniors requires just one topic anyhow - the set discussion. Possibly review topics as well. Friends and Princesses on the other hand are subjects that AFOLs work with in MOCs. That makes a big difference.

[Bob De Quatre]

I want to remind everyone that changing the structure of a forum isn't just making a list of subforums and click a button. That's a lot of work: admin will have to create the new subforum structure while keeping the one in place then move every topics depending on their contents, and all of that while having 500 to 1000 people reading and posting the forum...

And if we got rid of Licensed, almost everything will end up in the Sci-Fi subforum, like genetically modified reptiles, flying personnal armors dealing with gods, people with supernatural powers, etc...

[MAB]

The tag lines were supposed to be updated. I'll have to bring that up to someone able to do it.

But LOTR is the exception to the rule rather than an example of how the rule works. In any case "History" is meant to describe the architectural style and content rather than differentiate between fact and fiction.

Jurassic World is in Licensed as was the short-lived Jurassic Park theme. If someone wants to make a MOC based on the movies, it goes in Licensed. If someone wants to make a Dino MOC it can go in action.

This is where the contradiction is. History describes an architectural style rather than whether something is in a licensed theme or not, or actually history or complete fiction.

Whereas a dinosaur MOC based on the JP movies needs to go in licensed, but exactly the same MOC (so long as there is no JP logo) could fit into the Action theme as an unlicensed dino MOC. There is not one placed for dinosaur MOCs, it is split in two categories.

[robuko]

Pirates of the Caribbean was placed in Pirates because that theme forum was getting no new sets and PotC was quite similar to the generic pirates themes. Similarly, Lord of the Rings was placed in History because it took the place of ongoing generic castle themes, plus it helped that it had a lot of the elements of classic medieval history and legend. Both of these were major themes based on successful franchises which we knew would attract a lot of activity and which would leave their respective major theme forums with no new sets.

And in the case of Star Wars, I believe that it was originally part of Licensed, but it is undoubtedly large enough to deserve its own theme forum.

It seems to me that lots of thought went into this and that the resulting structure works very well for those forums. I am sure the same degree of thoughtfulness will be applied with all major new themes. Thank you.

[SMC]

I don't see how it could be interpreted as a lack of consistency. Friends is a Town-esque TLG original theme, therefore it belongs in Town. Disney Princesses is licensed from Disney, therefore it belongs in Licensed. For the purposes of organization, it really doesn't matter to whom TLG targets the Friends or Princesses themes — EB is an AFOL forum; there's no point in organizing things based on how age groups that none of us are part of would behave.

The fact is that if two lines are aimed at the same kind of person even us as AFOL will be more likely to enjoy one if we like the other one I also gave a lot of reasons why they should be put together, both have mindolls a lot of large panels, bright coloured parts and the same kind of parts, reason that have been given for putting other lines together to like LOTR and Castle.

I have a 4-year-old daughter, so Friends and Princesses are well and truly blended in my house and in my mind. Putting the two in different places would be frustrating if I was a fan of them, and fans of one are very likely to be fans of the other.

I would have thought that more people would think like this, that is how I see the lines.

Pirates of the Caribbean was placed in Pirates because that theme forum was getting no new sets and PotC was quite similar to the generic pirates themes. Similarly, Lord of the Rings was placed in History because it took the place of ongoing generic castle themes, plus it helped that it had a lot of the elements of classic medieval history and legend. Both of these were major themes based on successful franchises which we knew would attract a lot of activity and which would leave their respective major theme forums with no new sets.

LOTR never took the place of castle the two lines run side by side with new castle sets at the same time. Lone Ranger fits closer with western than LOTR did with castle

I want to remind everyone that changing the structure of a forum isn't just making a list of subforums and click a button. That's a lot of work: admin will have to create the new subforum structure while keeping the one in place then move every topics depending on their contents, and all of that while having 500 to 1000 people reading and posting the forum...

Thats a fair point and I feel like this is the real reason why we are trying to make out everything we have done in the past is right. I feel like my structure worked better and that is because I got to see all the lines we have now, when eurobricks was made we didnt know then what we do know. It might have been the right decision at the time but know it could be better.

And if we got rid of Licensed, almost everything will end up in the Sci-Fi subforum, like genetically modified reptiles, flying personnal armors dealing with gods, people with supernatural powers, etc...

Well when I got rid of Licensed I didnt put anything new in Sci-Fi at all, if anything most went in action.

This is where the contradiction is. History describes an architectural style rather than whether something is in a licensed theme or not, or actually history or complete fiction.

Whereas a dinosaur MOC based on the JP movies needs to go in licensed, but exactly the same MOC (so long as there is no JP logo) could fit into the Action theme as an unlicensed dino MOC. There is not one placed for dinosaur MOCs, it is split in two categories.

This is the main problem with having licensed, there are almost always a non licensed line that cover the same thing and these two line should go together.

Edited September 10, 2014 by SMC

[rollermonkey]

This is the main problem with having licensed, there are almost always a non licensed line that cover the same thing and these two line should go together.

This. There is probably more activity based on licensed properties outside of the Licensed subforum than within at this point. The problem isn't the stuff outside, it's the ones that remain. There is already one hodgepodge subforum, Special Themes, and in some of our minds, there doesn't need to be two. Princesses live in castles, whether they are Disney or not. Superheroes are action heroes who live in cities, and the dinosaurs chasing people in Jurassic Park are the same as those that chase people outside of it. Sacrilege perhaps, to suggest that Licensed is a superfluous subforum, but unless there's a legal reason for it, it is.

[Brickdoctor]

The fact is that if two lines are aimed at the same kind of person even us as AFOL will be more likely to enjoy one if we like the other one I also gave a lot of reasons why they should be put together, both have mindolls a lot of large panels, bright coloured parts and the same kind of parts, reason that have been given for putting other lines together to like LOTR and Castle.

No, that is not the reason LotR and Castle were put together. Those two were put together because LotR would have left History without any new sets if it were placed in Licensed. It certainly helped the decision, the fact that LotR shared some stylistic aspects with Castle, but that was not the primary reason that they were grouped together in History.

LOTR never took the place of castle the two lines run side by side with new castle sets at the same time. Lone Ranger fits closer with western than LOTR did with castle

Yes, it did. There were no new Kingdoms/castle sets released in 2012, other than the Kingdoms Joust, which was released before the LotR sets, outside of any wave, and was available in very late 2011. Castle did come back later and run at the same time as LotR, but of course we had no way of knowing that at the time we made the decision of where to place LotR.

[just2good]

Yes, it did. There were no new Kingdoms/castle sets released in 2012, other than the Kingdoms Joust, which was released before the LotR sets, outside of any wave, and was available in very late 2011. Castle did come back later and run at the same time as LotR, but of course we had no way of knowing that at the time we made the decision of where to place LotR.

Exactly, and look at this year- no new Castle sets. I doubt there's any for next year, either. It's all perfect the way it is.

[SMC]

Yes, it did. There were no new Kingdoms/castle sets released in 2012, other than the Kingdoms Joust, which was released before the LotR sets, outside of any wave, and was available in very late 2011. Castle did come back later and run at the same time as LotR, but of course we had no way of knowing that at the time we made the decision of where to place LotR.

No it didn't you just thought it did at the time and were wrong, which is my point. At the time when you have made some of the decision they seemed right now we have more information we might be able to do things better. And even if castle was taking a break we have other forums that do that do there are no western sets to talk about in history so why not put long ranger there.

So consistence:

Town is the only forum where scale is a issue, Big brick built R2D2 goes in star wars but tower bridge does not go in town this means creator is spilt up.

LOTR and Lone Ranger, both kind of historical buildings both licensed but ones goes in history and ones in license.

Friends just has to be in city or people wont ever get to see the MOCs but Dino and JW/JP should go in different forums.

Pirates and trains get there own forum with few sets over the years but the evergreen theme of Super Heroes does not. And count for yourself the number of super heroes pirate and train MOCs over the last month.

Sacrilege perhaps, to suggest that Licensed is a superfluous subforum, but unless there's a legal reason for it, it is.

Yeah I mean if minidolls don't make a difference to which forum a line goes in why do fleshies?

Why is it so right that we have a Licensed forum and so wrong to have a Minidolls one?

It's all perfect the way it is.

Come on just2good you better than that, there are very very few things that are perfect everything could be better and that's not to say its not good at the moment. Looking and saying this could be better and have you thought about this is a good thing.

[just2good]

No it didn't you just thought it did at the time and were wrong, which is my point. At the time when you have made some of the decision they seemed right now we have more information we might be able to do things better. And even if castle was taking a break we have other forums that do that do there are no western sets to talk about in history so why not put long ranger there.

Well, Lone Ranger is long gone. I guess I can see a notion to put it there in late 2012-2013, but it's pointless now. Even back then, there were close to no Lone Ranger MOCs. Same with PoP. LOTR in general is much more popular and has a much bigger universe for the LEGO iterations than both of those movies combined.

[SMC]

Well, Lone Ranger is long gone. I guess I can see a notion to put it there in late 2012-2013, but it's pointless now. Even back then, there were close to no Lone Ranger MOCs. Same with PoP. LOTR in general is much more popular and has a much bigger universe for the LEGO iterations than both of those movies combined.

Its true Lone Ranger is gone but the same thing is happening with Jurassic World and does size matter to where something is put unless it gets its own forum?

[Brickdoctor]

No it didn't you just thought it did at the time and were wrong, which is my point. At the time when you have made some of the decision they seemed right now we have more information we might be able to do things better. And even if castle was taking a break we have other forums that do that do there are no western sets to talk about in history so why not put long ranger there.

We were not wrong. There were not any Kingdoms or Castle sets released in 2012 concurrently with LotR. LotR replaced the generic castle line. Moving it back two years later now that Castle has come back would cause even more confusion among readers and posters as far as where to post what.

The 'Need for activity' argument doesn't apply to Lone Ranger. That theme provides practically no activity at all. I'll say it once again: LotR was a special exception. The reasons behind its placement in History are not necessarily a guideline for the placement of other themes, Lone Ranger included.

So consistence:

Town is the only forum where scale is a issue, Big brick built R2D2 goes in star wars but tower bridge does not go in town this means creator is spilt up.

Brick-built Artoo is a Star Wars UCS set, not Creator.

Pirates and trains get there own forum with few sets over the years but the evergreen theme of Super Heroes does not. And count for yourself the number of super heroes pirate and train MOCs over the last month.

Super Heroes has been around for a couple of years; it can hardly be called 'evergreen,' nor can it really be compared to classic themes such as Trains and Pirates that have been around for decades. Besides, the current activity in Trains and Pirates isn't indicative of past activity, such as when they first became separate theme forums. Maybe Super Heroes will get big enough and stick around long enough to warrant its own theme forum; we've never said that that wasn't a possibility. But right now the Licensed Moderator is telling us that it's not yet that time.

[MstrOfPppts]

Dear SMC, with all due respect, but you're starting to be annoying. You are trying to force your opinion about a minor thing on this forum despite a dozen of people telling you you're wrong or that there's too much fuss to make it work. I too agree that the Lone Ranger should be in history, the rest is fine with me. But saying your opinion is one thing, keeping to it and arguing about it at all stakes is another. Look what's become of this topic that firstly seemed quite interesting. People stopped replying to any questions and there's not much feedback staff can get from this thread, because it seems that the whole purpose of it was your disagreement with the forum structure. And if that's it, then you were justifiably scared about creating it in the first place, because it leads nowhere!

[MAB]

We were not wrong. There were not any Kingdoms or Castle sets released in 2012 concurrently with LotR. LotR replaced the generic castle line. Moving it back two years later now that Castle has come back would cause even more confusion among readers and posters as far as where to post what.

So why is Jurassic World in Licensed? There are not any current Dino sets, so it could be said that JW is replacing generic Dino.

[Brickdoctor]

So why is Jurassic World in Licensed? There are not any current Dino sets, so it could be said that JW is replacing generic Dino.

Dino is not a currently ongoing theme — Jurassic World is a new theme that's similar to a retired theme; it's not replacing any Dino theme. In any case, it wouldn't matter how you think of it, because Jurassic World's being in Licensed isn't going to leave another arguably appropriate theme forum without any new sets, so it is not a similar case to LotR or PotC (which, again, are the exception, not the guideline).

[MAB]

Dino themes may not be ongoing, but they are clearly stated in the tag lines of Action. Although of course the tag line only covers very old themes "Dino 2010/Dino Attack (from 2005)", and misses out the 2012 Dino theme.

I remember when the JW rumours first started I wanted to have a look, and expected to see them there, as that is where Dino stuff goes and couldn't find anything.

It seems that many things are special cases which are exceptions to the rules. Not that that matters too much, but it may just be better to say that something goes there because it goes there, rather than it goes there to follow a particular rule.

[tedbeard]

Not that I want to continue down this tangent but...

Pirates and trains get there own forum with few sets over the years but the evergreen theme of Super Heroes does not.

I don't think you understand what the term "evergreen" means in the LEGO context. CASTLE, SPACE, CITY (by whatever name) these are "evergreen" because they are permanent parts of the LEGO line of sets. Super Heroes are licensed which means that they could be lost at any time (subject to contractual obligations). LEGO had Spider-man, lost it for a few years and now has it back. It could be lost again when the current contract expires.

Licensed themes, even STAR WARS, are by definition "temporary". They cannot be permanent because LEGO does not own the intellectual property no matter how successful and long-running.