Eurobricks structure, moderating, member involvement and more

[Brickdoctor]

It seems that many things are special cases which are exceptions to the rules. Not that that matters too much, but it may just be better to say that something goes there because it goes there, rather than it goes there to follow a particular rule.

That is basically exactly what we've been saying. There are not "many [...] special exceptions;" there are two: LotR and PotC. They go in History and Pirates because it made sense in those particular cases, not following or establishing any particular rule. Everything else that's licensed goes in Licensed. Simple.

[SMC]

We were not wrong. There were not any Kingdoms or Castle sets released in 2012 concurrently with LotR. LotR replaced the generic castle line. Moving it back two years later now that Castle has come back would cause even more confusion among readers and posters as far as where to post what.

A lot of people thought that the LOTR line would replace castle and that castle would only come back after LOTR was done. This seemed to make a lot of sense but it was not what happened if anything LOTR replace Harry Potter. I like LOTR being in history but I would like to see more licensed themes being put with in forum based on there subject matter. You cant say LOTR replaced castle because it became clear that lego were happy to run the lines together. You cant say x ended and y started so x replaced y but then x came back you could end up saying friends replaced it because it started the year after castle ended. In your eyes maybe it did replace it but LOTR is not a Lego group castle line like kingdoms, it was its own line with nothing coming before or after, it was sadly a one off license. what I am talking about is not how you see it or how I see it but how the Lego group see it.

Super Heroes has been around for a couple of years; it can hardly be called 'evergreen,' nor can it really be compared to classic themes such as Trains and Pirates that have been around for decades. Besides, the current activity in Trains and Pirates isn't indicative of past activity, such as when they first became separate theme forums. Maybe Super Heroes will get big enough and stick around long enough to warrant its own theme forum; we've never said that that wasn't a possibility. But right now the Licensed Moderator is telling us that it's not yet that time.

Lego said at the London Toy Fair this year that Super Heroes is now an evergreen line and it is something that has been talked about a lot on this site.

Dear SMC, with all due respect, but you're starting to be annoying. You are trying to force your opinion about a minor thing on this forum despite a dozen of people telling you you're wrong or that there's too much fuss to make it work. I too agree that the Lone Ranger should be in history, the rest is fine with me. But saying your opinion is one thing, keeping to it and arguing about it at all stakes is another. Look what's become of this topic that firstly seemed quite interesting. People stopped replying to any questions and there's not much feedback staff can get from this thread, because it seems that the whole purpose of it was your disagreement with the forum structure. And if that's it, then you were justifiably scared about creating it in the first place, because it leads nowhere!

I kind of agree, however I have felt that I needed to defend my position because one I feel some people will try and keep status quo no matter what and two because a lot of people have said I dont know what I am talking about when a lot of what I am taking about has come from the Lego Group or other facts. Some people have not tried to understand what I am saying as you can see from the reply.

I didn't start this topic to talk about structure at all, I started because I have seen mod behave in a way I did not like and I have seen topics closed at a whim.

I do think we have gone off from what the idea of the topic was and a lot of that was my fault so sorry all for that. I don't think it was doing too much good anyway it seems like people don't want to look for improvements but are happy with the way it is. If anything looking at the poll it has shown we dont need the topic at all and if that what people think then so be it.

It seems that many things are special cases which are exceptions to the rules. Not that that matters too much, but it may just be better to say that something goes there because it goes there, rather than it goes there to follow a particular rule.

I agree.

Not that I want to continue down this tangent but...

The only way to stop is to stop, topics dont need to be closed people just need to stop posting.

I don't think you understand what the term "evergreen" means in the LEGO context. CASTLE, SPACE, CITY (by whatever name) these are "evergreen" because they are permanent parts of the LEGO line of sets. Super Heroes are licensed which means that they could be lost at any time (subject to contractual obligations). LEGO had Spider-man, lost it for a few years and now has it back. It could be lost again when the current contract expires.

Licensed themes, even STAR WARS, are by definition "temporary". They cannot be permanent because LEGO does not own the intellectual property no matter how successful and long-running.

Star Wars is evergreen, it has a long term contract unlike other licenses, Super Heroes are now in the same camp. This is not coming from me its coming from Lego.

The reason I think it important to keep lines together in the way the Lego group intended is because this is how they are on other site like Lego.com, brickset, brick link, catalogs and so on creator and a few other are split up which was one of my points. The other is that some things should be kept together like JW and Dino, Dino was very much an unlicensed JP line, it had over sized Velociraptor not like in the real world but as seen in JP. It was in the present going by the people and vehicles. The vehicles were used to catch the dinos like in JP2 and it also coved a lot of the needed molds. After we got the Dino line we started to see a lot of JP ideas on cuusoo. The dino line molds could well be used in JW sets and most of the reviews for the new sets will have a picture of them by there dino counterparts. If you read the JW topic the dino line is talked about in almost ever other post.

Sorry that this topic has gone off the rails a bit, well a lot. But I have not really been wrong about anything that isn't just opinion. I consider that it would be hard to place all the line in a forum so I tried to see if I could do it and I was happy with the results. I didn't think that having a friends forum was so controversial and we all know that Super Heroes is getting bigger and bigger and with every year is looking like its here to stay so I think that it is only a matter of time before it need its own forum and I like to be ahead of the game.

That is basically exactly what we've been saying. There are not "many [...] special exceptions;" there are two: LotR and PotC. They go in History and Pirates because it made sense in those particular cases, not following or establishing any particular rule. Everything else that's licensed goes in Licensed. Simple.

Hang on I think we both read this post and thought they were saying different things which can be the problem when you dont talk in person, its easy on forums to miss understand we should all keep this in mind.

Edited September 11, 2014 by SMC

[Brickdoctor]

A lot of people thought that the LOTR line would replace castle and that castle would only come back after LOTR was done. This seemed to make a lot of sense but it was not what happened if anything LOTR replace Harry Potter. I like LOTR being in history but I would like to see more licensed themes being put with in forum based on there subject matter. You cant say LOTR replaced castle because it became clear that lego were happy to run the lines together. You cant say x ended and y started so x replaced y but then x came back you could end up say friends replaced it because it started the year after castle ended.

Were there castle sets in 2012? No. Was there a medieval-esque line with knights and swords and shields in 2012? Yes: LotR. I never said that it was a permanent replacement. LotR replaced castle for at least a good year, so it made sense to place it in History, otherwise that forum would have had no activity for a year even though there was a major thematically appropriate line being released.

And before you try to draw more comparisons between the case of LotR and those of other themes, I'll say again that LotR was one of just two special exceptions.

Lego said at the London Toy Fair this year that Super Heroes is now an evergreen line and it is something that has been talked about a lot on this site.

We respect what TLG says and we aren't disagreeing with them, but their description of their license has nothing to do with how active that license is on EB or when we decide that that license deserves its own them forum on EB.

[SMC]

I understand what you are saying, that you used LOTR to brigde the gap of no castle line but I am looking at it one from the eyes of the Lego group and two as a fan. Would the Lego group say LOTR replaced castle? A lot of castle fans thought LOTR would replace castle, I thought this too but I changed my mind when we got castle sets at the same time. There was a lot of talk about if LOTR replaced castle in history. There is a lot of talk about super heroes being everygreen in topics too. I am not making thing up, it is based on what the Lego does and what they say. The other sites I use like brickset, brucklink, Lego.com all spilt there themes as Lego do and this is how I think about things too.

Bricklink even.

[Brickdoctor]

It doesn't really matter how TLG views LotR's place in its lineup — we're not TLG (and don't misinterpret this as my saying that we don't agree with TLG; I'm just saying that we're going to make the decision that we think is best for EB, and we don't have to do things the exact same way TLG does). We know that Castle has come back concurrently with LotR, but, as I've said, there was an entire year in which Kingdoms was ended, Castle was not yet released, and for all intents and purposes, LotR was the medieval, historic theme in TLG's lineup. It was therefore thematically appropriate to make an exception and place LotR in History. Its subject remains thematically appropriate for the History forum, so that's where it stays even now that Castle is back. Besides, moving it after two years of much activity would cause even more confusion among members as to where to post about it.

Also, I would like to point out that Brickset and Bricklink are primarily database sites. It's much more efficient for them to have a lot more categories than EB as a discussion forum has. Among other things, more theme forums means that we have some forums that end up greatly lacking in activity; it means that we have to maintain more indices (some of which will end up with little to no content and rarely be read); it means more limitations and less efficiency for our Regulators who would have to be spread out over those extra forums because of how board permissions work; it means that we end up with a longer main index page that's harder to read or takes longer to scroll past if a reader wants to look at one of the lower theme forums.

[Peppermint_M]

And if we got rid of Licensed, almost everything will end up in the Sci-Fi subforum, like genetically modified reptiles, flying personnal armors dealing with gods, people with supernatural powers, etc...

I could take some of those off your hands if things came to that

And I shall now address the Dinosaur (and plenty of other issues).

Action Themes is a hodge podge of crazy colourful and weird themes that are all tied together with the Action that takes place. There are baddies to chase and/or items to collect in such a way that even if these colourful characters could run around in a normal city, they are just a little bit beyond the norm but not quite SciFi. Johnny Thunder and his Dinosaurs (I like to think he was in Pelucidar or Dinosaur Island) Dino 2010/Attack and Dino are all LEGO developed. Jurassic Park is a License and thus belongs in that forum.

"Egads!" You say "But where shall I post this elegant and finely crafted Dinosaur MOC! I have used the fleshtone figures for their pale complexions are more suited to my tastes."

Well, I can help there! Did you build it with the intent of interacting with or replicating the story of Mr. Spielberg's exciting dinosaur films? Or was it simply a ripping adventure with oversized supposed-to-be-extinct reptiles?

If you're going for the intellectual property of Mr Critchon and the films of Mr Spielberg then post them in licensed. If, however it is simple case of the old favourite of Stick a Dinosaur in it to Make it Exciting pop it in Action.

The same goes for any other theme issue you might face here. If the MOC was built to compliment the License and the official sets then put it into Licensed, if it is something similar to a license but was not built to work with it, put it in the best fit place.

[MAB]

Well, I can help there! Did you build it with the intent of interacting with or replicating the story of Mr. Spielberg's exciting dinosaur films? Or was it simply a ripping adventure with oversized supposed-to-be-extinct reptiles?

If you're going for the intellectual property of Mr Critchon and the films of Mr Spielberg then post them in licensed. If, however it is simple case of the old favourite of Stick a Dinosaur in it to Make it Exciting ™ pop it in Action.

Does that mean that if someone builds a MOC with the intention that it looks like something out of Jurassic Park / World, but to everyone else it looks nothing like anything from the films, then it still goes into Licensed and will not be moved into Action? Is it the intention of the builder that is important, or the actual result? And how will you determine intention?

That advice gives the user the say as to where it should be posted (as it is based on their intention) so maybe it would be good to add that Mods will move posts based on their own interpretation of the MOC/content, not based on the original intention of the MOCer. That is, Mods' views outweigh those of the MOCer when it comes to placement.

It hopefully doesn't happen too much but we occasionally see MOCs moved into History, even though they could probably fit in more than one place.

[Peppermint_M]

Does that mean that if someone builds a MOC with the intention that it looks like something out of Jurassic Park / World, but to everyone else it looks nothing like anything from the films, then it still goes into Licensed and will not be moved into Action? Is it the intention of the builder that is important, or the actual result? And how will you determine intention?

Well, lets be honest here, if you post a MOC it isn't just pictures is it? You have a title to the thread, write a little to describe what you are showing or what you were aiming for when MOCing. You might add a little story about the scene presented or a few short words such as:

Here is my Jeep for Jurassic World.

That is how anyone determins the intention of a MOCer.

That advice gives the user the say as to where it should be posted (as it is based on their intention) so maybe it would be good to add that Mods will move posts based on their own interpretation of the MOC/content, not based on the original intention of the MOCer. That is, Mods' views outweigh those of the MOCer when it comes to placement.

Seeing as we run the forum for the users to enjoy, that is sort of the point. For thorny issues then yes, moderators will use their interpretation but will also explain why they moved it. I've not seen that happen very often.

If someone posts a MOC in Action and say that it is a James Bond MOC I will move it to Special where franchise and media MOCs not licensed by LEGO go. If someone posts in Action a Ghostbusters MOC I will move it to Licensed.

If someone were to post a MOC of the Ultra Agents being like James Bond then it would stay in Action. If someone where to post the Monster Fighters acting like the Ghostbusters then they stay in Action.

Again, this comes down to what the MOCer posts with their pictures. eg: "This is my James Bond MOC" would move. "The Ultra Agents are acting a bit 007" would stay in Action.

It hopefully doesn't happen too much but we occasionally see MOCs moved into History, even though they could probably fit in more than one place.

When it comes right down to it, we are not trying to chastise users who post a MOC in the 'wrong'* place, nor will any Moderator do more than move the MOC thread to a better suited place with a note mentioning why they did it. We are trying to put the MOC somewhere it will have more of an audience and more appreciation, keeping it in a place where those looking for MOCs on a certain theme will look.

A moderator will only take more serious action over a member posting things in incorrect places if they do so all the time or cause trouble over the moved thread. The first hints that maybe they need someone to explain the forum structure to them (sometimes a major clue to underage members, other times they just need the help) the second is a case of having a chat to close the issue.

Now, I have tried to be helpful, so I hoped this helped. Little is gained when picking hairs though.

^{* I have used quotes over wrong because it isn't a terrible crime, just a simple mistake.}

[SMC]

topics dont need to be closed people just need to stop posting.

Hi all sorry for opening an old topic that had died by itself, I think this topic was a good example that topics don't need to be closed and that they will disappear by themselves. I am happy to say I have not seen many topics unnecessary closed recently but what I have seen is some topics that have been killed by moderation. The problem is that it is hard to talk about without giving examples and I didn't want to use this topic to complain about people that are helping the site by moderating in their free time. But at the same time moderators are there for us, to help make the site a better place to be by stopping people being rude to each other and so on.

So I do now have an example that I feel I can use.

http://www.eurobrick...25#entry2225491

This topic was brought to an halt by Peppermint_M posting this

Alright,this argument has gone on long enough SMC. It has been fully explained.

Everyone let it drop. I think original the question has been answered."

This topic was not closed but has not been posted in since.

I PM Peppermint_M and said:

With all due respect I came to this conversation late, I did not state that Lego were hoodwinking people that case has already been made. I wanted to agree and add that I think Lego did it to sell sets. Me and Blondie-Wan had a back and forth where I am sure we became frustrated with each other but we were never rude to each other. I am unsure why you needed to name me at all when I hadn't even posted in this topic for two days.

This is a forum for decision, we are discussing whether Lego told us to help us or to sell sets. Why is my opinion any less valid than others, I set out my case including interesting facts about how many sets there still are in the EU.

If as a member of the site you don't agree with me you are free to say so, if I have done something wrong as a mod you can talk to me about it.

I reread all my post and I don't see anything wrong with what I said or how I said it and I am offended and I would ask you to change your post.

Peppermint_M did not change the post or reply but has been active on the site since.

Now I understand that sometimes as this topic has shown a conversation can go around in a circle with people saying the same thing trying to get there point across and it’s not the funniest thing to read. But I have seen moderators moderate with their personal options rather than to uphold the rules of the site.

Should a topic like this be killed by a moderator because they don't like the conversation?

Should a member be named by a moderator unless they have broken the rules?

Now moving on to something that could be more positive, we have talked about this before in this topic but topics like, Marvel Super Heroes 2015 Rumors & Discussion, DC Super Heroes 2015 Rumors & Discussions, LEGO Hobbit 2014 all have posts every few days about what is on topic what is not, can we do this should we do that.

My suggestion would be that for each currant Lego line there is a pinned open topic started by a moderator where people can take about anything to do with that line even if it’s just chit chat because there is no news. The topics first post should be regularly updated by the moderator with confirmed news and set information and pictures.

People like coming on this site to talk about their favourite line and it would be nice if there was a main place to just chat, if people want more constrained topics they are free to open them with the rules in the first post.

It would also be good for moderators have a wider function for the good of the site, they have to read the main pages anyway to moderate them so why not use them to update news and info on the first page. This would also stop the rush to be the first person the open a new topic about a new line because only a moderator would start these pinned topics. It would also make sure moderators would be active and seen to be doing something positive.

Just my thoughts, I do think the site has not been very proactive in changing and improving.

BTW: I PM Peppermint_M to say I was posting this and reported my own post for moderation.

Edited May 26, 2015 by SMC