Nexo Knights 2016

[Robert8]

I'm surprised to see Knight's Kingdom II was so poorly received I supposed I'm biased...

But there is just one way to settle this up: a "Best Castle theme ever?" poll

[BrickJagger]

I'm surprised to see Knight's Kingdom II was so poorly received I supposed I'm biased...

But there is just one way to settle this up: a "Best Castle theme ever?" poll

Castle '07, Black Falcons, and Kingdoms would be in a dead heat at the top.

[Artanis I]

But there is just one way to settle this up: a "Best Castle theme ever?" poll

Prior to 2000 it was factions, from that point onwards it was subthemes. How would you define the 80s & 90s "themes/subthemes" where there were concurrent factions that overlapped each other? If it's factions then KKII isn't a faction.

And if the poll was just for the subthemes (ie 2000 onwards) you are left with KKI, KKII, Fantasy Era, Kingdoms & Castle 2013. I don't see KKII winning that one.

[Eru Magnus Valar]

But there is just one way to settle this up: a "Best Castle theme ever?" poll

I think I can predict which castle theme would win:

The 2007-2009 Fantasy Era castle theme.

And as runner-up I would probably put my money on the classic castle theme from 1984 with the Black Falcons, and the Lion knights (which for some mysterious reason many people call: crusaders), and the Robin Hood gang (1987). Although I don't know if that is actually all considered the same theme?!

[Robert8]

Prior to 2000 it was factions, from that point onwards it was subthemes. How would you define the 80s & 90s "themes/subthemes" where there were concurrent factions that overlapped each other? If it's factions then KKII isn't a faction.

And if the poll was just for the subthemes (ie 2000 onwards) you are left with KKI, KKII, Fantasy Era, Kingdoms & Castle 2013. I don't see KKII winning that one.

Yes, I know... defining themes and subthemes before Knight's Kingdom I is kinda tricky

But I'm not expecting to see KKII winning... I just wanted to see how many votes that theme would get

[BrickJagger]

I think I can predict which castle theme would win:

The 2007-2009 Fantasy Era castle theme.

And as runner-up I would probably put my money on the classic castle theme from 1984 with the Black Falcons, and the Lion knights (which for some mysterious reason many people call: crusaders), and the Robin Hood gang (1987). Although I don't know if that is actually all considered the same theme?!

I'm pretty sure that the Lion Knights form '84 are called Crusaders so they aren't confused with the Lion Knights from 2000, 2010, and 2013. Another reason could be that different language Lego magazines called them different things. There is a pretty strong following for the Black Falcons here (and I'm one of them ) but it's about equal to that of Castle 2007.

I personally think: (EDIT: by request)

1.Castle 2007

2.Black Falcons

3.Kingdoms

4.Forest men

5.Crusaders

6.Wolfpack

7.Black Knights

8.Classic Castle

9.Fright Knights

10.Dragon Masters

11.Royal Knights

12.KKI

13.Castle 2013

14.KKII

15.Dark Forest

1. Black Falcons

2. Forestmen

3.Crownies

4.Dwarves

5.Green Dragons

6.Crusaders

7.Red Lions

8.Wolfpack

9.Shadow Knights

10.Skeletons

11. Trolls

12. Black Knights

13. Red Dragons

14. Bulls

15. Royal Knights

16.Fright Knights

17. Classic Castle

18.Blue Lions (Hate them)

19.Dark Forest

20. Pants-less mercenaries from 2006

20. King Leo's Gut Wrenchers

21. Jelly Beans, Power Rangers, Rainbow Knights, Perrywinkle dudes KKII Morcia Knights

Edited February 12, 2015 by BrickJagger

[Artanis I]

If it's factions then separate the 2000- subthemes. The shadow knights are a lot better than that. And Castle 2013 is nowhere near that bad.

Post 2000 factions: KKI Lions, Bulls, KKII power rangers + others, Shadow Knights, Crownies, Dwarfs, Skellies, Trolls, Kingdoms Lions, Kingdoms/Green Dragons, Crown Lions, Red Dragons. That's not including any CMFs.

Otherwise if it's by theme I think "Castle" (everything prior to KKI but not Classic Castle - ie Lion Knights, Black Falcons, Black Knights, Forestmen, Wolves, Dragon Knights/Masters, Royal Knights, Fright Knights, & Ninja(?!)) is runaway winner...

[thetang22]

Pre-2000 is kinda tricky, but there was sort of a loose relation between phases of the classic castle sets (this is back when I was collecting).

Phase 1 - Crusaders, Black Falcons, Forestmen

Phase 2 - Black Knights, Wolfpack, Dragon Masters

Phase 3 - Royal Knights, Dark Forest, Fright Knights

While it's supposedly true that all these factions existed within the same setting, Phase 1 and 2 seemed more related to each other than 3 did. Phase 3 almost seemed like they were trying to unofficially reboot the Castle line, whereas Phase 2 seemed like a pretty obvious continuation of the previous Phase. There was a lot more crossover between Phases 1 and 2 as well. I can't remember if there was really any crossover with Dragon Masters (the last of Phase 2) and Royal Knights (the first of Phase 3). There was a promo poster, but I can't remember if their sets were really co-existing together.

[BrickJagger]

If it's factions then separate the 2000- subthemes. The shadow knights are a lot better than that. And Castle 2013 is nowhere near that bad.

Post 2000 factions: KKI Lions, Bulls, KKII power rangers + others, Shadow Knights, Crownies, Dwarfs, Skellies, Trolls, Kingdoms Lions, Kingdoms/Green Dragons, Crown Lions, Red Dragons. That's not including any CMFs.

Otherwise if it's by theme I think "Castle" (everything prior to KKI but not Classic Castle - ie Lion Knights, Black Falcons, Black Knights, Forestmen, Wolves, Dragon Knights/Masters, Royal Knights, Fright Knights, & Ninja(?!)) is runaway winner...

Castle 2013 wasn't awful, but it sure was disappointing. Here I am, waiting for the return of Kingdoms, when I see the prelims and get really annoyed. The reason it's down so low is because all of the other themes ahead of it are better. I guess FK and KKI are a little iffy to be ahead of Castle 2013, but it's my opinion.

The second thing you say there is a little unfair: You are fusing 9 or 10 factions into one "super sub theme", I guess, and that would obviously win because the most factions in any real sub theme is 4.

[Artanis I]

Castle 2013 wasn't awful, but it sure was disappointing. Here I am, waiting for the return of Kingdoms, when I see the prelims and get really annoyed. The reason it's down so low is because all of the other themes ahead of it are better. I guess FK and KKI are a little iffy to be ahead of Castle 2013, but it's my opinion.

Another question is whether you're comparing minifigs, heraldry or sets.

The second thing you say there is a little unfair: You are fusing 9 or 10 factions into one "super sub theme", I guess, and that would obviously win because the most factions in any real sub theme is 4.

That was the point!

[Eru Magnus Valar]

I'm pretty sure that the Lion Knights form '84 are called Crusaders so they aren't confused with the Lion Knights from 2000, 2010, and 2013. Another reason could be that different language Lego magazines called them different things. There is a pretty strong following for the Black Falcons here (and I'm one of them ) but it's about equal to that of Castle 2007.

Being Dutch, I grew up with Lego catalogues where those Lion knights (or crusaders as they are referred to in English) and Black Falcons in Dutch had official names which did not in any way refer to their heraldry. The Lion knights/crusaders were called: 'de ridders van Blankenvoort', and the Black Falcons; 'de ridders van Donkervoort'. And those forest men, if I am not mistaken were actually referred to as Robin Hood and his merry men (but in Dutch of course).

I am inclined to look upon '2nd classic castle' as one continuous theme running from 1984 up until the end 1994. So eleven years in total. In 1995 the Royal knights were introduced. The minifgures with the silly duuphloo lion head sigil. (1st classic castle being the yellow castle, and the other few sets of that era)

Anyway my personal favourites are Fantasy Era, and 2010 Kingdoms. And don't make me choose between them. Well okay then: Fantasy Era. Because of the dragons, trolls, and dwarfs that were not included in the (2010) Kingdoms theme.

The problem with that poll you propose, as Artanis I from Down Under, already pointed out is that only in this century did TLG introduce separate themes, instead of a more or less continues castle world with factions.

[BrickJagger]

Another question is whether you're comparing minifigs, heraldry or sets.

That was the point!

1. Everything.

2.

--------Joke----

- ->

- O

^

My head

@Eru Magnus Valar

Robert8 proposed the thread, although I approve of the idea.

Edited February 12, 2015 by BrickJagger

[Artanis I]

Pre-2000 is kinda tricky, but there was sort of a loose relation between phases of the classic castle sets (this is back when I was collecting).

Phase 1 - Crusaders, Black Falcons, Forestmen

Phase 2 - Black Knights, Wolfpack, Dragon Masters

Phase 3 - Royal Knights, Dark Forest, Fright Knights

While it's supposedly true that all these factions existed within the same setting, Phase 1 and 2 seemed more related to each other than 3 did. Phase 3 almost seemed like they were trying to unofficially reboot the Castle line, whereas Phase 2 seemed like a pretty obvious continuation of the previous Phase. There was a lot more crossover between Phases 1 and 2 as well. I can't remember if there was really any crossover with Dragon Masters (the last of Phase 2) and Royal Knights (the first of Phase 3). There was a promo poster, but I can't remember if their sets were really co-existing together.

Dark Forest never appeared outside North America so I never count that one! Perhaps I could. It was an obvious (disappointing) rehash of the green guys & the brown guys, so I don't really want to anyway!

The Royals tower bridge had a Dragon knight with the (I call a continuity error) Black Knight ovoid shield, so there is some cross-over there.

I would actually split it into 2 phases. 1: Lions, Falcons, Black Knights, Forestmen. 2: Wolves, Dragons, Royals, Fright Knights (& throw in D*** F*****). Although the Blackies had 2 slightly different styles of appearance (pre and post 1990) and the latter had a bit to do with the 2nd of those phases. But their 1988 castle came out before most Forestmen sets so I think they belong more back then than later.

[Eru Magnus Valar]

16.Fright Knights

18.Blue Lions (Hate them)

20. Pants-less mercenaries from 2006

20. King Leo's Gut Wrenchers

21. Jelly Beans, Power Rangers, Rainbow Knights, Perrywinkle dudes KKII Morcia Knights

Hahaha you crack me up with number 21; 20; and 20.

But I have no idea who the hell the Blue Lions are?

Personally I think the fright knights were also really horrible (both sets as well as minifigs), and don't deserve the sixteenth position but at most the 20th.

Edited February 12, 2015 by Eru Magnus Valar

[BrickJagger]

Hahaha you crack me up with number 21; 20; and 20.

But I have no idea who the hell the Blue Lions are?

Personally I think the fright knights were also really horrible (both sets as well as minifigs), and don't deserve the sixteenth position but at most the 20th.

Blue Lions are the good guys from 2013. (Not sure how to embed a photo).

Fright Knights......I'm a little bias because I love their castle for some odd reason. I just do. Don't judge

[Artanis I]

Being Dutch, I grew up with Lego catalogues where those Lion knights (or crusaders as they are referred to in English) and Black Falcons in Dutch had official names which did not in any way refer to their heraldry. The Lion knights/crusaders were called: 'de ridders van Blankenvoort', and the Black Falcons; 'de ridders van Donkervoort'. And those forest men, if I am not mistaken were actually referred to as Robin Hood and his merry men (but in Dutch of course).

I recall a catalogue with Robin Hood in it too. Many of our catalogues didn't have any faction names, rather just the heading "Castle Folk" and all of the sets under one banner regardless of which faction was predominant. But some said Lion Knights & Black Knights. Most of the names came from AFOLs needing to label everything, or American catalogues where for some reason they believe that kids need to be spoon-fed all of the details & backstory.

I think too much "canon" is made of TLG media where I believe most of the time someone is just making it up as an example. "Black Falcon's Fortress" for example, was a suggestion to name the little castle belonging to a guy called the Black Falcon, not a canon reference for the entire faction of knights to be called the Black Falcons. 2nd part of that sentence is true, 1st part (that it's only a suggestion) is my hunch.

[Robert8]

Ok.... I think we need a "Defining Castle themes and subthemes" thread

[thetang22]

In regards to Castle 2016, I think it would be kinda neat if, instead of having 2 human factions to fight each other, they fleshed out the society of the single human society with good and bad minor factions within the castle community. For example, in the Robin Hood story, the kingdom had Knights that were good, but you also had the corrupt Sheriff...who was technically part of the "good" Kingdom, despite being bad himself.

You could have internal conflicts within the same larger faction, but when faced against another primary faction....the internal conflicts could be put on hold to rally against the common enemy.

[Artanis I]

Hahaha you crack me up with number 21; 20; and 20.

But I have no idea who the hell the Blue Lions are?

Personally I think the fright knights were also really horrible (both sets as well as minifigs), and don't deserve the sixteenth position but at most the 20th.

Blue Lions are the good guys from 2013. (Not sure how to embed a photo).

Fright Knights......I'm a little bias because I love their castle for some odd reason. I just do. Don't judge

I forgot about the 2006 guys. The castle was a rehash of the not-great 2000 & 2004 ones, and the minifigs very similar to some from KKI & KKII. I'd throw them in the forgettable pile.

Morcia Knights is a good name, it covers those guys tidily. That updated second list looks a lot better (obviously I disagree here and there).

What was up with the Bulls' faces? I can't figure out what is supposed to be the eyes, nose, mouth...

In regards to Castle 2016, I think it would be kinda neat if, instead of having 2 human factions to fight each other, they fleshed out the society of the single human society with good and bad minor factions within the castle community. For example, in the Robin Hood story, the kingdom had Knights that were good, but you also had the corrupt Sheriff...who was technically part of the "good" Kingdom, despite being bad himself.

You could have internal conflicts within the same larger faction, but when faced against another primary faction....the internal conflicts could be put on hold to rally against the common enemy.

Sounds like LOTR...

[Eru Magnus Valar]

Blue Lions are the good guys from 2013. (Not sure how to embed a photo).

Ooooooooh those guys.

You know what I did?! Since those figs actually do have really nice printing, in three varieties. I just tossed out the those crown-lion shields. Merged them with my Fantasy era Crown knights, and the dozen CMF Crown knight minifigs I have. Went to Bricklink and bought a bunch of Fantasy Era crown shields to replace those 2013 castle shields I did not like that much and; voila! I now have twice, or three times as many Crownies as I had before.

[Robert8]

It's done

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=105759

[BrickJagger]

Ooooooooh those guys.

You know what I did?! Since those figs actually do have really nice printing, in three varieties. I just tossed out the those crown-lion shields. Merged them with my Fantasy era Crown knights, and the dozen CMF Crown knight minifigs I have. Went to Bricklink and bought a bunch of Fantasy Era crown shields to replace those 2013 castle shields I did not like that much and; voila! I now have twice, or three times as many Crownies as I had before.

That's a good idea, but I have 24 blue lions and 3 crownies.

[Deathleech]

What was up with the Bulls' faces? I can't figure out what is supposed to be the eyes, nose, mouth...

That's Dennis the Menace all grown up as a knight...

[Ardelon]

Isnt there a topic with a poll about voting for your favorite subtheme (or faction)? Im too tired to lokk for it now, so Ill just post that after some deliberation, my fave post-2000 subtheme would be Fantasy Era and my fave pre-2000 faction is Dragon Masters (that last one is purely for nostalgia, though). KK2 is at the bottom of the pile, by a landslide, even if the Shadow Knights were cool.

@ Eru Magnus Valar: The "Crusaders" name is kind of official, at least in North America (or the English-speaking world), as seen on this pic of a LEGO catalog on this guys Flickr: (eh, its the first relevant pic on google)

[Artanis I]

Isnt there a topic with a poll about voting for your favorite subtheme (or faction)?

There's a new one every year or so. But only about half as frequent as the "I hope the next castle theme is Kingdoms2/FantasyEra2/BlackFalcons2/Forestmen2" topics.