Rick

Right, it makes threads hard to read. The spammy or offensive posts typically get deleted by the staff anyway. So, I don't really see the issue.

Thanks for letting me play badboytje. A lot has been said already that I wholeheartedly agree with. Most importantly: the game for the Agents wasn't fair. Although they did have a killing action, they had to make sure their "killer" got killed in order to effectuate the kills. I didn't follow Gotham actively, so it came as a surprise to see such a role in this game (thanks Pie for clarifying that). To forget to actually merge the scum teams when they should have been is a game breaker really. In Baritones 3, the two scum teams could function independently of each other as they each had a night kill. When they merged, one advantage (the extra kill) disappeared but was replaced with the advantages of more members, a conversion (to replace the dead Godfather), and the combined scum knowing who'se town. In this game, the Agents couldn't survive on their own and basically had to find the Mutineer's Godfather. That hinges too much on luck and should be avoided. A lot of night action results that should not have been reported, were reported nonetheless. A vanilla that gets blocked shouldn't be told and even when a power role is blocked, they should only hear they're "unsuccessful", not that they're blocked specifically. However, we "verified" Bob through the feedback I got on his jailkeeper action, so we hurt ourselves by relying on the night action feedback. In my view there are two reasons why Bob managed to survive so long. (1) I could only see the jailkeeper action as being town, as we knew both scum teams had a blocker and I saw no need for a protector or another blocker. (2) There were still quite a few uncleared townies left who were all slightly scummy and were investigated before Bob who had been "cleared" through the use of his jailkeeper action. As to game balance. Town was very powerful, but so were the Mutineers, whose kill, block, and role cop got inherited. Also, they got a 2-shot jailkeeper action. And of course you should avoid tying the roles to characters. I'm not looking for these things anymore, because I really expect everything to be randomised. This should both be the player-to-character and - even more importantly - the character-to-role assignment. Overall, I think you took on a bit more than you could handle badboytje. I don't think "advanced" games should always be so full of new roles and twists. In this case specifically, I think something can be said for simple setups that are also much easier to balance correctly. Mafiascum's wiki includes examples of tested, balanced setups. Perhaps it's an idea for hosts to base their game mechanics on those, especially when they're not sure about their game being balanced. Also, I wouldn't be afraid to ask for advice from experienced hosts/players who aren't going to play the game. I quoted this in a PM with def: The 'goal' in the town PM was to eliminate scum, not the mutineers specifically. It should have been consistent with the town win condition in the thread, as it could easily be abused (even though that's against the rules and it didn't actually happen behind the scenes as far as I know).

Hmm, that must be a forum glitch. One of the staff member should see this eventually and they will probably look into it. Edit: I seem to be able to edit my posts.

I'm not even staff. Won't somebody think of the fellows?

What's that? It's April, didn't you know?

I'd prefer yellow too and I'd very much like this released in the style of the rest of the modular building line (instead of an open-backed building for example). Perhaps you could gather a few of these 'design issues' and ask for a poll to be set up in this or a new topic.

Congratulations, it just hit 10,000.

Don't abuse my raccoon! - Just don't. He bites. Given by Hinckley. ... and updated.

So... uhm... why exactly were you unsure for so long about your sanity as an investigator? You had confirmation twice.

I'm sure you're smart enough to realise it's too late for that. I assume you don't want to answer me in public. In the unlikely event that we're wrong about you, may I suggest you share what you from your investigations on nights 1 and 3 with someone you trust?

So, you had confirmation that your role was not paranoid through the lynch of Emi, yet today you still decide to vote for Daisuke first instead of revealing your result on Shiro straight away? And you were working with Norio to coordinate who to protect/block on even nights, but forgot to mention that you investigate on odd nights? I'm curious to hear the result of your investigations on nights 1 and 3.

I noticed I voted incorrectly. Unvote: Bob (Akira) Vote: Akira (Bob)

It's not about Akira forgetting to send in his night action or even about him outing Norio as an investigator. My father's lying through his teeth. His story is clearly inconsistent. And as you know, there's absolutely no reason for a Yakuza to lie. First he says he targeted my mother in order to block her, then he claims to only know he blocks in addition to protecting after talking to Momoe. Also, from what I understand, Jirou was a follower and should have (and probably has) seen Akira block and protect Momoe on night 2 and should have (and again probably has) been able to tell Akira that he's a jailkeeper. Jirou just didn't know he was talking to a Mutineer. There's simply no reason for a Yakuza to lie at this point.

You really should have thought your defence through before you opened your mouth. Your story is full of inconsistencies and you're clearly lying here and there's no reason to lie if you're a Yakuza. I must say I wasn't entirely sure of lynching you today, but a bit of questioning seems to go a long way. How's publicly saying you 'deducted' that Norio's an investigator a Yakuza thing to do? Let's get rid of - hopefully - the last Mutineer. Vote: Bob (Akira)

I'd think he would find out you protect and block (i.e., you're a jailkeeper) if he indeed was a follower, so I don't know what 'later' refers to here. How did you find out if not through Jirou? You're not making a lot of sense here. Did Hiroki also check you out the same night Jirou followed you? I just wonder on what basis you trust one more than the other. You used it to protect a vanilla townie on night 4 because Norio asked you to, then you say you're not using it for that purpose anymore, and now you see the light again? Do you even try to make your story consistent?

That seems awfully powerful and I'm not really inclined to believe that. It seems Norio was in contact with Jirou as well, so I'll wait what he has to say about this. I don't think there can be a reason to trust someone enough on day 1 to share your role with them. If you didn't trust Norio, protecting the identity of your source was a responsible thing to do. What now works against you is that you outed Jirou, but not Hiroki. It's still a pretty useful role: it can be used to block someone you suspect of being scum or to protect a vanilla townie. Or do you see no reason to use it because you're busy killing people and hiding their bodies at night nowadays?

Guys, this is not a chatbox. Please use proper grammar, spelling, and punctuation. Also, don't bump your thread.

Well, if you're scum you're likely a Mutineer, so of course you'd have no objection against targeting Isamu, an Agent. 'Trust' on day 1? Really? So, you were willing to give up a Yakuza, but not a Mutineer. Of course - if you're town - you didn't know their alignment, but this little 'experiment' certainly works against you right now. So, you're a jailkeeper? What better way to use your action than to protect (and in the process block) a confirmed vanilla townie. Surely, you're not suggesting that you're better used to protect an investigator?

I'm sure Akira can at least shed some more light on why Hiroki contacted him on day 1 (point 2) and why he had no trouble giving up Jirou's name, but kept Hiroki's identity a secret (point 3). That sounds pretty scummy to me indeed. This even/odd night thing doesn't sit well with me either. Are we supposed to believe Akira doesn't leave his bed on the other nights? It's an unfortunate 'coincidence' that Akira forgot his night action the same night the red ninja killer appeared.

Are you even doubting the red ninja is killing Yakuza at night? Of course we're not entirely sure, but I think it's safe to assume the victims are Yakuza. It's a shame we were wrong about Emi, but the list of suspects is getting shorter. We're all waiting for Norio to hear the results of the investigations tonight. If nothing comes up, I think it's good to continue where we left off yesterday.

EB has been extremely slow all day or not loading at all (I'm getting lots of time-outs). That no one has reported something similar yet makes me think it's a connection issue. My ISP's part of the connection seems fine in terms of ping times, though. Trace route looks as follows. Tracing route to www.eurobricks.com [83.169.34.155] over a maximum of 30 hops: 1 24 ms 15 ms 12 ms 10.252.4.1 2 10 ms 10 ms 11 ms rmnd-rc0001-ds101-vl201.core.as9143.net [213.51.154.65] 3 27 ms 20 ms 16 ms tb-rc0001-cr101-ae4-0.core.as9143.net [213.51.157.155] 4 20 ms 16 ms 17 ms asd-lc0006-cr101-ae5-0.core.as9143.net [213.51.158.18] 5 88 ms 25 ms 17 ms ae1.ams10.ip4.tinet.net [77.67.64.61] 6 19 ms 19 ms 18 ms adm-b4-link.telia.net [213.248.78.101] 7 21 ms 18 ms 28 ms adm-bb2-link.telia.net [80.91.253.212] 8 26 ms 24 ms 23 ms hbg-bb2-link.telia.net [213.155.135.27] 9 35 ms 44 ms 57 ms kol-b2-link.telia.net [80.91.247.249] 10 * * * Request timed out. 11 70 ms 88 ms 105 ms xe-0-1-0.dr-slave.r2.cgn3.hosteurope.de [176.28.4.78] 12 * * * Request timed out. 13 39 ms 27 ms 27 ms www.eurobricks.com [83.169.34.155] Trace complete.

... but in the meantime, this thread isn't really going anywhere. And we already had this thread about mobile apps. Topic locked.

Oh, is this one of the examples of you acting town? Helping us? I think most of us concluded we uncovered a hidden scum faction that night, yet many of your comments seemed to downplay the 'threat' of another scum team. "Maybe they're neutral and will help us". Suuuuuure.

I'd be more than happy to help to get either of them lynched. I'm afraid that - indeed - an investigation of you won't bring us much further. You talk a lot, so you aren't afraid to draw attention to yourself and subject yourself to investigation. You would probably be in contact with Norio now if you were one of us with a night action. So, I'm inclined to think that either you're a vanilla townie or the Godfather of one of the scum teams. Let's look back at what you said on Day 3 immediately after Minoru and Isam were revealed to be Special Agents: This stood out to me. You are suggesting the Special Agents act on their own (even though two of them were killed that night) and can choose sides. It looks as if you were trying to steer attention away from the Agents. Coupled with your behaviour during the days, this makes it quite possible you are the Agents' Godfather and - hopefully - the last Agent we need to get rid off. And since there really isn't any other way to verify this, but to lynch you, I will: Vote: Emi (Brickdoctor) I think we should try to get Emi or Lizzy lynched today. I will only switch my vote to Lizzy if we can't get Emi lynched for some reason. However, I believe it's likely Emi is the Agents' Godfather and lynching her is the only way to be sure of her alignment.

What makes you think it's 'obviously' the vigilante? Allowing power roles to be converted tends to mess with the balance too much, but given what we've seen in the past couple of days, I wouldn't completely rule out that explanation. I think it's more likely however that something changed regarding one - or both - of the scum team's night kill. Either we killed the original Mutineer killer and the red ninja is their successor or the scum teams have joined forces and this represents their new 'combined' night kill.