VOTING THREAD Week 3 Guerrila Challenge v. Week 4 Counters

[SkaForHire]

VOTING: Anyone can vote!

Voting closes April 2nd

Which side won? Which was the best counter build?

Judging criteria: This is a straight one versus one contest. The challenger versus the best (in your opinion) counter build (if there are multiple counter builds). So judge solely on Challenger versus best counter build. Remember, story should play a bit into your judging criteria. Also, a counter must effectively undo the guerrilla attack. Even if the Counter MOC is better, if you don't think it successfully undoes the guerrilla attack, you should probably vote for the guerrilla attack.

Thank you!

ZONE C7

Zone: C7( Blufiji)

COUNTER:

Infernum

AND C7 (Lord Dan)

Recruiting Allies by lorddan413, on Flickr

COUNTER:

Goliath

ZONE J15

Zone: J15 MAXIM I

COUNTER:

NONE

J15 BREGIR

Village square by Beorthan, on Flickr

COUNTER:

Garmadon

Never Bribe a Ulander by Robert4168/Garmadon, on Flickr

Challenger: Maxim I + Bregir

What Faction can counter: Ulandus

(Two Counters Needed)

WINNER: High Council by default (not enough counters)

Zone: D7

Challenger: Gideon

Blocking the Road to Queenscross by Gideon_83, on Flickr

COUNTER:

KAI NRG

Teaching the High Council! by gid617, on Flickr

What Faction can counter: Ulandus

ZONE H5

Zone: H5 KAI

Blocking the Road to Queenscross by Gideon_83, on Flickr

COUNTER

Soccerkid6

H5 Garmadon

Storming The Breach by Robert4168/Garmadon, on Flickr

COUNTER

LittleJohn

Challenger: Kai and Garmadon

What Faction can counter: High Council

(Two Counters Needed)

Zone: K19

Challenger: Umbra-Manis

COUNTER

Robin Creations

What Faction can counter: Ulandus

ZONE A14

Zone: A14Disco86

Escape to Everlast by Disco86, on Flickr

COUNTER

MAXIM I

A14 Robuko

COUNTER:

Bregir

The Town by Beorthan, on Flickr

AND

Mccoyed

8 by mccoyed, on Flickr

Challenger:

What Faction can counter: High Council

[Bregir]

Another set of hard choices - good work all!

[LordDan]

There were a ton of great builds here! Several hard choices to make!

Why did you use the zoomed in picture for my build instead of the picture of the whole build like everyone else?

[Adair]

Yeah, as said above. :P

Though I think Infernum's TTR6 build had a good majority. :P

[Maxim I]

Ow man, already 5 votes behind...

For future counters against Disco, can someone expain me why he exactly voted for Disco?

[Maxim I]

Ow man, already 5 votes behind...

For future counters against Disco, can someone expain me why he exactly voted for Disco?

Already 8 votes behind, still no answer :( I really want to know why I lose this one as I was sure I would win...

[Blufiji]

Already 8 votes behind, still no answer :( I really want to know why I lose this one as I was sure I would win...

Hey

I don't know about everyone else but I'll give out my perspective. It's Discos aesthetics and figure posing. None of his builds are particular complex technique wise, but they are all aesthetically pleasing whether it's the lighting or the colors or the posing. Your build, while using the same techniques as his and good in it's own regard, came up just a bit short. I wouldn't work so much on your technique in the future, but making the colors flow and the aesthetics stand out to give the build a better chance should you have to challenge Disco again. Hope I didn't offend in anyway.

[SkaForHire]

To be honest, I know Why Maxim feels this way, and it has partially to do with the city being his original creation. The striped look that he used, that may not be as aesthetic to some, is actually what Everlast has looked like in the past, where Disco's building does not quite fit that pattern. I can see why he felt a little upset, especially because that is a pretty good forced perspective of his whole stylized town. I do agree with blufiji that minifig posting is a big weakness to Maxim's MOC, i think if the front of the MOC was pulled out a little bit, and the soldiers were farther up, and in less of a "smile for the picture" pose, this would have made the MOC feel less crowded in the street. That being said, I voted for Maxim because he portrayed the history of the town, and I thought it was a good forced perspective. Whereas Disco's MOC is just plain beautiful, I felt like it could be anywhere in the Kaliphlini Rakath, and did not scream Everlast to me. Still, that really isn't Disco's fault, it is hard to look up every previous build before you build in a location.

Finally, Disco's build, next to Infernum's, in my opinion, is the best looking MOC on the menu this week. I can see why people, not looking towards the past consistency of the zone would choose his build. That is not to say I don't think Maxim's is a good build, I do feel like the technical aspects of Disco's is VERY good, and it was really a hard pick for me. But you know me, I am a story guy, I went with the historic one.

[robuko]

Yeah I kind of feel the same about Bregir's which although it's a very nice build, it (to me) doesn't really look like Everlast or fit with the Everlast storyline. I think the lesson from the voting so far in a general sense is, the majority of people will go for the nicest looking MOC regardless of canon or story, or indeed how well the response meets the challenge. @Maxim I liked your response very much, especially the FP gate echoing Disco's, but I voted for Disco because I thought his build was better finished (mostly studless, lots of different height levels) and better presented (yours has those holes for windows).

I really wish I hadn't "upgraded" my phone, the camera on the new one (Samsung Grand Duo 2, do not buy one!) absolutely sucks!

Edited March 28, 2015 by robuko

[Kai NRG]

@Maxim, I voted for Disco but at the moment didn't have time to explain why. I think really I'd just have to echo what others have said - his build was cleaner. Your's definitely nailed the original style much better - of course, you created it! - but the minifigures - which, keep in mind, are the biggest thing in the shot - weren't stellar (not that they were bad, just not out of the ball park). If I were nitpicking Disco's I could find fault with is rockwork, and the way it merges with the right tower which isn't quite perfect. Then the use of fleshies and I'm not a huge fan of the rock mixed in with the dark tan (those two are more subjective). But his had a nice smooth texture, and an overall awesome look, plus - and this is probably what really gets the votes - some pretty complicated techniques. On the front houses especially, you could have thrown in a bit more SNOT, half-stud offsets, and so on to make those more interesting. Plus the white behind the doors detracts slightly. I totally understand where you're coming from, it's really a shame to loose like this after putting so much effort into it - and I'm not too happy about the margin between SK and I, for that matter!

[SkaForHire]

SNOT is overrated. People are too hung up on "polished" or no studs showing... It is LEGO, there should be studs showing. If we wanted no bumps, mold in clay. 2 cents added.

[Elostirion]

I am usually a huge fan of polished builds, and this is where Disco excels. Also personally while I like the idea of forced perspective, most of the time the results just don't look as good as the "real" builds, they don't give me such a big "wow" effect, don't emotionalise me as much as the other builds do.

I think both builds are really well executed for what they are supposed to do; it's just that I personally the general category/type/style of build Disco has built.

That is very subjective, but it's how I voted.

[Maxim I]

I do understand your vote. But in my opinion it is a missed chance for future counterbuilds... Don't get me wrong, but it is not hard for me to make a replica of his build (you all know I got the bricks needed for that).

I thought it would be more interesting if we used the elements in the original build and do sth completely else with it.

Clearly people like more the copy-paste counters where the best execution (most time him with most experience or even bricks) wins...

[Elostirion]

I am not sure about that. Going for an entirely different build is absolutely fine for me. If the builds were the other way round (yours the original attack, his the counter, stories adapted accordingly) this would not have changed my vote. For me it's really not at all that you tried sth. different, just that you did not meet my style-preference as much as he did.

But maybe you are right that "perfect" execution often counts more for the vote than the idea.

[Kai NRG]

...Clearly people like more the copy-paste counters where the best execution (most time him with most experience or even bricks) wins...

Given the tally between Blufiji and Infernum... not sure about that! But after all, is it really surprising that most time and most experience wins?

@Ska, yeah, SNOT can be overrated, but part of that is just that it does show more effort. It generally takes longer and more pieces to do the SNOT. It may not look so much incredibly better, but especially for builders who have done it and know what's behind it, it's more impressive. And yeah, you're going to have plenty of studs showing - Disco certainly does! but the important thing is to have them in the right places!

[Maxim I]

I am not sure about that. Going for an entirely different build is absolutely fine for me. If the builds were the other way round (yours the original attack, his the counter, stories adapted accordingly) this would not have changed my vote. For me it's really not at all that you tried sth. different, just that you did not meet my style-preference as much as he did.

But maybe you are right that "perfect" execution often counts more for the vote than the idea.

That's just my problem. Like Ska said, Disco made an absolutely great build but it could have been a gate everywhere in Kaliphlin but Everlast. As I did not wanted to act like an megablocks, I decided to not point this out and start a discussion. Instead I wanted to show the real feeling of Everlast and incorporate his nice gate at the same time.

And about not meeting your style preference, I am sorry, but I will never meet your style preference because I have my own style and I will stick to it. I already proved in the past (look to my Ruadh build) I can do other walltechnics as well.

[SkaForHire]

@Ska, yeah, SNOT can be overrated, but part of that is just that it does show more effort. It generally takes longer and more pieces to do the SNOT. It may not look so much incredibly better, but especially for builders who have done it and know what's behind it, it's more impressive. And yeah, you're going to have plenty of studs showing - Disco certainly does! but the important thing is to have them in the right places!

I think SNOT is much more about if you have the pieces rather than the expertise. Some people do it tremendously (you are one of them.) some just cover every lug they can... Yes, I don't want to see a ton of studs everywhere, but at the same time, it makes no sense to me to not have a few . Rocks are one of the things that bug me the most, there should be bumps as it adds texture, I think people are wasting their time smoothing out models too much. And if we are talking about the two models in debate, Maxim has studs in the same exact place as Disco, on the road! SNOT can't be the reason people voted one over the other, because they are SNOTed the same! I am not saying people shouldn't be voting Disco's MOC, as I think it is an excellent MOC, and side by side with no other consideration, I would have voted for it too, but I am not sure I would go as far as saying Maxim's looks unfinished. It is just in a different style altogether as Disco's which, as Elostirion said, appeals to different people.

Sorry, this isn't a rant at Kai at all, it has been a few years since I railed against SNOT elitism, I had to voice the opinion again. I feel that too many people count too much into SNOT building, and not enough into other execution. When I judge your MOCs for the challenges, SNOT is a very low priority on my own list.

[Kai NRG]

Well, to be clear, I don't think to myself, "Okay, so how much SNOT did this builder have?" (That sounds so weird... ) It's probably more subconscious. Anyway, yeah, in this case neither really had any. I just think it would have improved the texture of DM's (or MI's) houses if one or two of them had used SNOT paneling or something like that. But yes, I agree, the styles are drastically different and of course, people are going to vote for their favorite style.

I agree about rocks needing some bumps. Disco doesn't have them and I think that really marks his rockwork down a notch. Though, as far as it goes, neither does DM's. It's less noticeable though, in fact DM's rockwork is considerably better IMHO.

[SkaForHire]

Results:

C7 Defended (one win, one loss for the attackers)

J15: Defended

D7: Taken by HC

H5: Defended

K19: Defended

A14: Taken by DK