Rick

It doesn't, unless you're really a gorilla.

I don't think I'm throwing a tantrum. I'm simply trying to point out why I think Petrus is not scummy at all, yet you are. You don't think you should address any of that? Yesterday was certainly an eye-opener for me. You thought you could win this by giving the Role Cop - an outright scummy role that got a crazy result on Snotra - another night and lynch Petrekr, clearly an Einherjar.

Roles like 'Converted', 'Decoy' and 'Prankster' certainly make me think it's not at all simple for the two sides to come to an agreement by just talking to each other. It makes me think that no one has any guarantee that the other party will not renege on their agreement. As I said, there are probably mechanisms in place that make it almost impossible for the two sides to "just come together" and agree. You're informed in that respect, we aren't. I think you were concerned Hervi had some sort of conversion ability as you've been saying before. Just not to convert Einherjar, but to convert Servants from one side to the other. That's why you wanted him out of the way. Interesting that you claim to be responsible for Sigmund's death. You defended Sveinn in PM to me by saying he and Wary agreed on killing Sisco without your influence. He's helped to prevent you kill Einherjar, like Cranebeinn and Petrekr. He also didn't go along with your suspicions against Finn. I'm convinced this prevented you from lynching Finn that day. Unfortunately, he was still killed at night. There is absolutely nothing to suggest Petrus is scum. And, I'll say it again, Dagrun - a confirmed Servant - mentioning his name, should actually go a long way towards clearing him and definitely not be a reason for suspecting him. On Day Two you suspect that the supposed conversion isn't completed, yet on Night Three - when who you suspected to be their converter (Hervi) was dead - it was magically completed. Oh, right, they switch actions around. How convenient that Dagrun mentioned that in her PMs (probably because she was left on her own). What's the point of having a Role Cop (Beorn) then? What reason did you have to protect Beorn anyway? Role Cope is a scummy role and the result on Snotra must have sounded ridiculous given that you know the protector. You unvoted Petrekr when you found out you couldn't get him lynched. You didn't switch your vote to Beorn immediately, but made sure to add it quickly enough when you saw people started voting for him. Maybe you expected to quietly finish the job at night by killing Dagrun and made the bold move to propose Petrekr as a lynch candidate yesterday? Yet, you expected to be killed by Dagrun? Dagrun probably knew Sveinn was talking to Wary and wanted to make sure Dragmall was killed and unprotected.

I clearly should read up on the madness of the early days of EB mafia some time.

The two sides to the same Scum team have to outnumber the Town. But that's not all. Each side's leader has to kill (usurp) the other side's leader. However, he has to make sure he only takes out their leader, because the number of Scum on the other side is still needed to help him achieve the majority against the Town. There is no third faction. There are two sides to the same faction. I laid out why I think Petrus is Einherjar a couple of times. He hasn't done anything scummy and the "case" against him is based on a confirmed scum mentioning his name as her scum partner. But as Snotra says, we'd be having the exact same conversation if Dragmall had accused Snotra, Petrekr, Cranebeinn, or me. It's not agains the rules of the game. It can be compared to a Mafia usurper only winning if they kill the Godfather. One side to the Servants can only win if they manage to take out the other side's leader. It also makes any discussion of the numbers yesterday meaningless as Dragmall's side had not yet taken out Dagrun, the leader of "Hervi's side". She revealed herself in a last-ditch attempt to make Wary kill Dragmall. He has not done anything suspicious and has done a lot to indicate he's Einherjar, as I laid that out repeatedly today. As I said your whole case against him is based on the words of a desperate dead Servant. Your refusal to test our theory is telling. You're clearly running our of arguments and you're not even addressing the points I raised against you.

Hinck tried it again with Steampunk.

You can keep repeating it, but - I've said it a couple of times before - you're much smarter than to believe this yourself. Going along with your story and assuming this two-stage conversion is true, Wary was not (and is not) converted and Dagrun is smart enough to not give her scum mate away like that. She needed insurance so she or her scum mate would not be blocked, because - according to your logic - her scum mate would be completing the conversion or killing someone. You're wrong about lynching Canute not achieving anything. It's been laid out many times before what it will achieve. It will settle this once and for all. You're right about lynching Petrus though. It will achieve that the Servants of Loki win tonight. Again, repeating a point does not make it true. It's all possible under the rules. "A Dagrun said". Are you listening to yourself. You're using the words of a confirmed Servant to substantiate your point. Right, assuming we're scum, you doubt we can win. Let's do this then. And again, it's not a third faction and it's not mechanics-breaking. It. All. Fits. As we've explained a dozen times already. It explains the distrust on the early days. It explains the truce between you and Hervi on Day Two. It explains why you were so suspicious of Canute and Beorn, yet never wanted to act on those suspicions. It explains why you were so interested in finding out who had the remaining actions. When Finn came forward you outed him instead of protecting him. You brought forward Cranebeinn as a potential lynch candidate basing your entire argument on a conversion, instead of allowing him to quietly verify himself, which is something a true Town leader would have done with such an important action. Confirmed by you, whom we suspect to be scum. And even then, none of you have your affiliation confirmed, because the investigator died ages ago and the Servants made sure he wasted his actions on both nights he was alive. First of all, it's typical that blockers can't block each other, because that would give precedence to one blocker over the other. Second of all, you have an unblockable (ascetic) one-shot block to use tonight. Wary wasn't stupid enough to fall for that with Dagrun. "Much better position"... thanks for agreeing with our plan. We can't lose by lynching Canute today and having Petrus killed tonight. We will lose by lynching Petrus today. Basically it comes down to the fact that lynching Petrus will cause the Einherjar to lose today, which is entirely predictable. Not lynching him will not prevent a town win no matter what the situation is, and will expose the scum so we can end this over another couple of days. Make sense? Surely you wouldn't say having, for example, Mafia usurpers in a game is against the basic rules of the Scum having to outnumber the Town, would you? You didn't have to kill the entire other Scum faction, because there is no other Scum faction. You're all Servants, just under different leadership initially. I'm inclined to think that if there were conversions, they were conversions from one side to the other (Dagrun trying to convert Wary). That would explain the distrust Dagrun was referring to. And, again, it would explain the initial power struggle. So, yes, you need their numbers against the Town, but you also had to get rid of their leader. It isn't true and you know it. Making it bold also doesn't make it true. What are you going to try next? A huge font size like Canute used? I think she might be onto something too. The truth. Actually, I think it'd balance out nicely, because the two sides to the Servants are battling each other as well as the Einherjar, which is exactly what happened.

Not anybody but Petrus. I'd say the same thing if Dragmall was trying to get Snotra, Cranebeinn, Petrekr, you, or me lynched.

Thanks for being so open-minded about it. Unvote: Dragmall (Dragonator) Vote: Canute Grey-Bush (CallMePie) Why can't you make it add up? They only started the day so confident because they thought it would be the end of the world... for us Einherjar.

The role list Dagrun apparently sent to Wary included 'Converted', so conversion is definitely an possibility. Dagrun mentioned having to use individual PMs to communicate, so there clearly is/was something that made/makes the Servants distrust each other. Also, she clearly mentioned needing you dead to win. The Servants needs to outnumber us, but they're also battling each other. I think you won the scum battle last night by killing Dagrun and perhaps Beorn too. It actually makes me confident that we can still win this, because hopefully you will only have one kill at your disposal tonight. I'm defending Petrus so hard because he hasn't done anything scummy, unlike you. I can keep going over why, but you calling us scum is not going make you right. It's all within the rules. You're all Servants, but next to battling the Einherjar, you were also fighting each other. This is why you needed a shitload of actions. There are no three factions. You can keep pointing to the rules, but Snotra's theory is entirely possible within the rules.

At the start of Day Two, you were convinced Hervi was scum because of the way he accused you (and I agreed with his crappy logic in the case against you), you said you were suspicious of his supposed bodyguard roleclaim, and if you realised Bergulf was Artemis by then you must have concluded Hervi was scum controlling him and using him to 'verify' himself as Einherjar. Thus you should not have unvoted him. I'll say it again: you're smarter than this. You went along with his plan because he gave you Gerrid and, knowing his plans, you knew you could turn on him the next day. Finn had a backup role (illustrating the importance of Bergulf's role) and you probably killed our blocker along the way, as it would be the easiest explanation for the three blocks on one night. The scum weren't the typical informed minority here. They didn't know who their scum partners they needed to win were. So, by killing everyone that was not on their team, they risked killing off some of the other team which they ultimately needed for the majority against us. This can't be judged using typical views of 'balance'. I've been trying to think outside the box the whole time and I quickly realised that, given the ease with which we were lynching and killing scum, there was a twist to this. And I don't think you can be surprised that given Ragnar is overseeing us, that there is a twist to this situation. Snotra nailed it and you know it. Thanks for seeing the light, I was counting on you. I'm convinced Petrekr will make the right decision. That just leaves Sveinn. Sveinn, you can believe Dragmall for now, but there is nothing to lose by going along with us now. Exactly. Dragmall, how can even you not agree with this? If we're too stupid to see you're right, we'll let you convince us. We lynch you today and you can ask Wary to take care of Petrus tonight. The Servants have to outnumber the Town. The two sides just don't know who's on the other side, so if they go ahead and randomly kill people, they run the risk of hurting their own chances of winning. It doesn't contradict our win condition or yours. It. All. Fits.

There won't be a tomorrow if we lynch Petrus (but you know that). If we make the 5 person scum team go into the night with 4 they can, if one of the scum kills is indeed gone, only kill one of us and we can stay ahead.

Indeed, and what suspicious behaviour has Petrus engaged in? None. Today's lynch is crucial indeed. At least test out Snotra's theory by lynching Dragmall, because if he's right, there are plenty of Einherjar left, and we can deal with the remaining Servant tomorrow. See? No risk in lynching Dragmall today. We won't lose if he's right. Right. Is that why you said he wasn't tested at all before? The protector and the inventor are Town. The rest of the power roles either you or Hervi's Servants killed along the way. Correct analysis, there is nothing incriminating Petrus and even if Dragmall is right about everything (which he isn't), Dagrun wouldn't have mentioned her partner to someone not yet fully converted. Do you honestly believe Dragmall is a fool and just believes that? The more likely explanation is that they're fighting each other. It also explains what happened on Day Two. They figure out there are two sides and try to strike a deal. Dragmall, you've been promising to tell me the reason you and Hervi switched the vote to Gerrid after your private conversations. It was confidential according to Hervi on Day 3. You said you'd tell me after Hervi was confirmed to be a Servant. I've repeatedly asked you in private, yet you never answered. Of course you didn't. Snotra is right, Hervi was offering you Gerrid to make the numbers even again. Even if you believe Dragmall, that he's a misdirect is the most likely explanation. Haven't you learned yet that you should be most suspicious of the ones who seem to trust you too easily? It was widely known you were the protector by Day 3. Dragmall even confirmed it to Petrus. Yet, you're still alive. Don't you think that's odd? Well, I think it is. And you should realise it is too. You're justifying to yourself why you've been trusting Dragmall the whole time. It's time to realise you've been wrong and prevent Dragmall from winning this. You, Cranebeinn, and Petrekr can turn this around. Cranebeinn, Sveinn, Petrekr, you don't have to believe us right now. You have everything to lose by voting for Petrus today, but even Dragmall confirms that you have little to lose by testing our theory today. What's so hard to understand about that? Gloating already. No wonder the only thing you and Carl did was trying to make us think there were only one or two scum left. I called both of you out for that. After that Dragmall must have told you to not talk too much anymore or you could easily give the whole team away. I think that's clear by now: You, Cunute, Wary, Wilhalm, and Carl. Vote: Dragmall (Dragonator)

You have certainly blown my mind dear wife. They're quite obviously the ones being manipulated. I think what Snotra is suggesting is a very real possibility and I think it's the twist to our situation that I've been looking for. As I said earlier today, I think this is going to be our last day if we don't lynch a Servant of Loki. So, let's lynch Dragmall (or someone else on his team) and 'verify' this theory. If we're wrong, we can always follow Dragmall's leads tomorrow because, if we have to believe him, we still have plenty of Einherjar to spare against the last Servant of Loki. If you're a loyal Einherjar, you can't possibly be against this plan to verify Snotra's theory.

I'll let Petrus defend himself, but he was suspicious of Hervi since Day One. He was against lynching Finn. Unfortunately, the Servants took take of him because you outed him the night after, probably because they thought he did inherit the investigator action after all. Petrus also was against lynching Cranebeinn, who you trust now. By the way Dragmall 'confirms' people I am confirmed it seems.

I'm just trying to find reasons for why there seem to be so many scum dead already. But let's not argue about the ridiculousness about the conversion action. We seem to agree this is an odd situation we're in and the ridiculousness might as well be in the way conversions work. If they can convert in a two-stage process it might also explain why there seem to be so many Servants. So, let's assume Wary's story checks out. This means Dagrun was incredibly desperate to get Dragmall killed. Can anyone clarify why the scum can't win while Dragmall's alive though? But to think that Dagrun would give away her fellow scum so easily is just plain stupid. She had to make sure the conversion, which she intended her scum mate to do would not be blocked. Why would she give them away? From Wary's conversation with her it becomes clear they knew Dragmall is a blocker and they knew Wary was talking to him. Giving Wary Petrus' name made sure she would be blocked or tracked and not her real scum partner. So let's find the real Servant of Loki still hiding among us, because you're foolish if you think it's Petrus.

Sketchy? It's completely ridiculous. And as I said, even if it's true, I don't think the conclusion can be that Petrus is a Servant of Loki. If Dagrun really came forward with Petrus' name, I actually consider it more likely that he's Einherjar. From Dragmall's attitude today in public and private I'm inclined to think that this is the last day if we lynch Petrus, and let me tell you, it's not going to result in a win for you or me. We're going to lose if we lynch Petrus today. You'll be crying.

How's dropping Petrus' name convincing? As I said, even if this wacky conversion action is true and we accept she blabbed (both of which I highly doubt), there is no reason whatsoever to drop your fellow scum's name. If all of this is true, it's much more likely she was actually trying to frame Petrus. I'll say it again: you're smarter than this, and so are Dagrun and Petrus. You might be in a second scum faction and the broadsword killer is your killer or you might have the power to make people appear to be Servants of Loki when lynched. It would explain why you didn't seem to care who got lynched yesterday. Loki seemed to suggest we were killing a loyal Einherjar again yesterday: "I will never tell you who I have employed. I have nothing left to lose. You have failed, Odin. As we speak, your beloved einherjar are murdering another of their own. Valhalla has grown old and decadent. Your warriors have been locked up in that abattoir of theirs for too long. They have lost their minds. And now, they have turned on each other instead of their proper enemies. They do not care for your cause, Odin. All they are loyal to is the taste of battle. Face it, Odin. One day, this world of yours will end. And we will all be better off for it." In fact him being so forthcoming made me think this was already over. Maybe we're only here because the Servants' killer was unsuccessful last night. I already told several people days ago that I thought we were doing 'too well' and that I expected a twist. I think you know about it and are exploiting it to get us all killed. Oh, by the way, you still haven't told me why Hervi and you voted for Gerrid after unvoting each other. Hervi said it was confidential information at the time, but you told me in private you were going to reveal it after Hervi got lynched. Despite repeatedly asking, you keep 'forgetting' to answer that. And you did the same with Finn and Cranebeinn? You were trying to get them to claim in order to assess how dangerous they were to you. You clearly control Cranebeinn now, so he he's no longer a threat. Blocking and trying to lynch Finn was a big mistake though. No, not a mistake, it was scummy as hell. I thought they tried to convince the broadsword killer to kill you yesterday night. That was before Beorn was lynched. You are the one who keeps floating this conversion idea because it can substantiate any lynch you attempt. You tried it with Cranebeinn and now you're trying it again with Petrus. If they converted, you were the most logical choice for conversion. Maybe you have been the scum blocker (Servants of Loki or another faction) all along. With the investigator out of the way, there was no way to verify you're scum. Until... you found out Finn could inherit Bergulf's action. I think you were worried he did inherit it after all and that this is why you blocked and were trying to lynch an obvious Einherjar. Similarly, who knows, maybe you made Dagrun appear scum when she was killed. She did claim that she used her one-shot protection and tracking powers, but had an investigation left. Were you afraid she'd use it on you? It's a bit out there, I acknowledge that, but, as I said, I expect a twist and I urge everyone to help us piece this together. Also, there simply has to be a reason why Bergulf's action was the way it was. If it's a 'simple' Einherjar versus Servants of Loki, with an SK thrown in, there is no reason for this action to be the way it was. And that it could be inherited suggests it was essential to catching the scum. Didn't you expect this to be over by now with six Servants killed and an SK around(!). Let's hope we can deal with you later today.

I do, but - if you're telling the truth - how can you be so sure you blocked the conversion? If they can swap roles and the kill didn't go through, that might as well mean you blocked the killer. Bu then again, I don't see how you can expect anyone to buy this story. And even if Dragrun was blabbing to the broadsword killer in an attempt to get them to kill you (why would he do that if he's not certain the conversion actually goes through?), surely she wouldn't mention the name of her fellow scum. You're more intelligent than to believe this Dragmall. Dragmall is more intelligent than that and Petrus is definitely is more intelligent than that. Everyone should know that. Open your eyes people. Helpful how? What did you need from me? I think you told me because you thought Petrus was still suspicious of me and wanted to prevent me from talking to him. And I like to think I am being helpful, just not to your cause. I don't know what you are, but you're not Einherjar. If you're going to argue Petrus was converted, surely you would have been a much better choice? Everyone essentially cleared you after going after Hervi. Petrus has been defending Einherjar you wanted to lynch. Yet everyone seems perfectly fine with you suggesting Einherjar after Einherjar to be lynched, go along with you and unvote with you. I told you in private I didn't think Petrekr was scum and I almost went along and lynched him to 'verify' him. But then I realised the only reason you'd be so bold and try to lynch someone quite clearly Einherjar was if it was really getting close and I think we were close to losing yesterady. Also, I told you the blocker was a fool for blocking Finn, who was obviously Einherjar. I think you had him Role Copped and found out he had an investigative-type action and that's why you blocked him. I expect our situation has a twist to it. This might very well be some crazy reverse witch hunt or you can make the dead appear to be Servants of Loki. I know one thing for sure and that's that you're not one of us.

Do you honestly believe Dagrun would tell someone she still had to convert she's scum and reveal Petrus in the process. I thought we concluded Petrus was likely framed on Night One because Bergulf was going to compare her to Hervi (or at least Hervi feared that). Either the kill was blocked or the conversion went through. Should we lynch the broadswoard killer now? Right, except you said you verified me yesterday night by blocking me and had no problem telling me about your ridiculous suspicions. You know that was well after the NA deadline and of course I contacted her because your story did not (and does not) make sense at all. So you blocked Petrus last night in an attempt to not let the conversion go through, but - assuming you tell the truth - you actually blocked the kill? Because why would Dagrun reveal herself and try to get the broadswoard killer to kill you only to... kill you again herself (and fail)? So, by your logic we should lynch the broadswoard killer because he got converted. Again, so we should lynch the broadsword killer then? I'm sure there won't be a tomorrow if we lynch Petrus today. You're lying. I never claimed vanilla to you. You 'verified' me by blocking me yesterday night.

Dragmall, you don't honestly expect us to believe that Dagrun told their not-quite-converted broadsword killer that she and Petrus were the last remaining Servants, do you? And even if she was foolish enough to try and get you killed before converting the broadsword killer, why would she give away Petrus? Also, let's not forget who tried to get Erik, Finn, Cranebeinn, and Patrekr lynched, and was all to happy to change his vote to someone else when he encountered too much opposition. Yesterday, surely the Role Cop with three very convenient targets and one ridiculous result on Snotra should have been more suspicious to you from the start of the Day than Petrekr? Erik and Finn are now confirmed to be Einherjar and it seems you're convinced of Cranebeinn's innocence as well, even though you didn't hesitate to try and get him lynched for no good reason but an 'assumed' conversion on night 2. Patrekr clearly seems Einherjar and I'm surprised you didn't have him killed like you had Erik killed. With all the night actions at your disposal, surely you should have had a better idea of who were scum. And even if you didn't, there were more suspicious 'unverified' targets than Petrekr.

Player Appraisal is finally posted. Congratulations to those who passed.

I validated your Eskallon account, can you check if you can log in? Who would have thought that wouldn't really be your e-mail address?

I can't in good conscience vote for someone who I don't think is scum, not even to make progress. I'm afraid that if we're going to keep making 'progress' like this, we'll just be overrun by the Servants of Loki after all at some point. Unvote: Patrekr (Palathadric)

I'm not convinced Patrekr's scum, but we have to move forward, and if this is the only way to narrow down the list of suspects then so be it. Vote: Patrekr (Palathadric)